As a Master Fitness Trainer, and dealing with Unit level PT goals, do you believe that PRT is affective?

SPC Brady Allen — Mon, 26 Jun 2017 19:05:37 -0400

Over the years, I have heard many different viewpoints about PRT. Having gone through the course, I learned many things and most of all learned how to properly do PRT. Trying to change the stigma of PRT has been a difficult one and it takes a lot of patience when trying to teach PRT correctly. With all this being done, I still hear a lot of people saying PRT is ineffective and should be gone.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 26 at 2017 7:19 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 26 Jun 2017 19:19:49 -0400

As a Drill Sergeant I have witnessed PRT be extremely effective. We have kids of the video game generation with zero athletic experience go from doing zero push ups, zero sit ups, and 20 min two mile runs too being able to pass with 50 points in each event. While the scores are not outstanding in their own right the transormation of the level of conditioning it's impressive. When done correctly I firmly believe PRT is effective.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 26 at 2017 7:25 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 26 Jun 2017 19:25:29 -0400

I think too many Soldiers expect PRT program to somehow create Soldier athletes and don't really understand how the program works and what it is designed to do.

My understanding is that PRT, is designed to build and train muscle movement that will be useful during combat. But, like any fitness program, it relies on proper diet and sleep to be effective. I think this is a major area that needs improvement, Army Wide. When this is combined with half-assed PRT programs, you get results that don't meet expectations.

Response by WO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 26 at 2017 7:51 PM

WO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 26 Jun 2017 19:51:06 -0400

Definitely agree with the guys that say that PRT is effective. And just like you said, there is still many leaders in the Army that do not believe the in the new PRT programs and also refuse to embrace it which is unacceptable.

One of my Brigade SGM once decided to take over PT and conduct it for 30 days. His plan was 30 day running challenge (which was not a challenge because it was mandatory). It went something like: 3 days a week doing long runs and two days doing sprints. It was not long into this PT plan that many soldiers started getting shin splints and other injuries. Many of them (even guys with 300 APFT score) ended up in getting temp profiles. I am sure that his intentions were good, but the problem is that he did not have an understanding about the PRT principles of precision, progression, and integration in order to avoid injuries.

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 26 at 2017 8:19 PM

PFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 26 Jun 2017 20:19:52 -0400

PRT is absolutely effective-- at motivating my peers to keep up their fitness. While my old unit averaged a 290 and everyone passed the 4x:36 and the ruck), we could pretty much do whatever we wanted for PT most days of the week. Some people would do CrossFit, some would lift for hypertrophy, and others like me would prefer swimming and running. That was enough motivation in itself for us to keep up our scores. If PRT was all my future held, I don't think I would be too incredibly moved to put out.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 27 at 2017 9:16 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 27 Jun 2017 21:16:59 -0400

This article sums up my thoughts perfectly.

https://www.armytimes.com/articles/army-physical-un-fitness-a-system-that-promotes-injury-and-poor-nutrition

There's a reason why no other workout program on the planet uses PRT drills. There's a reason why no civilian personal trainer or Special Forces guys use it.

army-physical-un-fitness-a-system-that-promotes-injury-and-poor-nutrition

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 28 at 2017 9:29 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 28 Jun 2017 21:29:18 -0400

Plus units also not do PT to be able to achieve mission requirements or other miscellaneous taskings.

Response by SGT Steve Hines-Saich B.S. M.S. Cybersecurity made Jun 28 at 2017 11:17 PM

SGT Steve Hines-Saich B.S. M.S. Cybersecurity — Wed, 28 Jun 2017 23:17:53 -0400

SGT Sean Goodrow great article. It speaks to the problems noticed. NCO's receive very little training experience before being thrown in front of a group of Soldiers to lead in excercise.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 28 at 2017 11:36 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 28 Jun 2017 23:36:43 -0400

PRT works if done correctly. The issue is that when the Army puts a program in place there's always those that "know best" and refuse to follow the Army's guidance.

I remember when I was a young PVT, a very wise CSM told us, "we must support the Army"
wouldn't that be nice?
If every one from the top down/bottom up actually followed what's in the regs instead of putting their own little spin on everything.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 29 at 2017 8:30 AM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 29 Jun 2017 08:30:22 -0400

The movements might be useful on their own somehow. I just don't see how a "Y Squat" differs from a "W Squat" other than how you hold your arms. This is part of the problem; where you have too many different exercises that no one who does not do PRT exclusively will ever be able to memorize and/or perform correctly. Yeah, there's a manual, but are you really going to read out of the manual while leading the formation? Not realistic. Some of the exercises are just plain silly and complicated. It is these things that turn off many Soldiers. Simplicity wins the day, not doing 100 different variations of exercises that make one look and feel like a clown. Also, what does getting up and going to attention between each exercise really accomplish (physical fitness wise, not discipline) between ground exercises? For example, prone row, get up, attention, bent leg body twist, get down, get up, attention, push-up, get down, get up, attention, etc. Just like everything else Army, there doesn't really seem to be a constructive point to doing some things, and we do them just "because Army, that's why." When you present things like that to junior Soldiers, they are not going to buy into it. It's that simple.

In general, organized group PT really helps no one. While many Soldiers may not know yet what works for them, individual PT is more effective than group PT, as everyone has different levels of fitness, different body types, and conditioning needs. For me, as a 47 year old male, I can get a good weights workout in about 20 minutes. For cardio, I can walk 1-2 miles, do a rowing machine, or use my TreadClimber when I am at home. I get more out of a workout when I am left to my own devices. Doing the same boring PT every day does very little for me, and others in my unit say the same thing. I get that allowing everyone in a unit to do their PT would be really scary for the Army, as they would lose control over that part of the PT picture, but if that were to happen, then the APFT would be the arbiter of who is doing good PT and who is not. Those who want/need guidance on a good PT program will always have it through either knowledgeable NCOs, the MFT that is required by regulations, or through their own research. Those who fail, well, the procedures for that are already in existence. The Army doesn't regulate eating habits, smoking habits, or sleeping habits, why regulate PT habits? Regulating only one part of the equation does nothing. Let adults be responsible for their own PT.

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Jun 29 at 2017 9:23 AM

SGM Erik Marquez — Thu, 29 Jun 2017 09:23:17 -0400

Army Physical fitness training has always had the same issue.. we training as cohesive units, which is good at team building, accountability, mentorship, leadership and many other good reasons to do it..Its also horrible for physical training in groups. When I went through MFT school the first time, it was said the perfect ability group size was ONE, more then that is a compromise.
Setting a "unit group" PRT intensity and activity level is a compromise, it will lower some SM's physical status, raise some and poorly maintain some. If the unit goal is to bring all SM in the unit to a uniform low standard, PRT works... You can train all to the lowest common intensity level set for those in poor physical shape and not hurt them. Of course all others will suffer.
You can decentralize all SM PT in the morning putting them directly after formation into 6 or more ability groups, lead by a trained and experienced PRT leader.. But Ive never seen a unit leadership willing to do that as a whole...Some will for ability group runs (Slow, Medium, Fast) but not for the entire training session.

Until leadership is willing to decentralize and allow "individual" training in ability groups based solely on .....well ability and needs, not unit, platoon, section, squad integrity PRT and PT in general will remain mediocre at best as an overall physical fitness training plan.

Response by Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth made Jun 29 at 2017 11:16 AM

Lt Col Scott Shuttleworth — Thu, 29 Jun 2017 11:16:48 -0400

If it is what we have then it is good. However, I think the PRT should be based on competencies versus standard pushups/situps/waistline etc. What I mean is that I think there should be a combat PRT done twice a year for all services. I don't care that you can knock out 75 pushups or 75 situps or 25 pullups or can run like the wind in shorts and a t shirt. What I care about is are you fit enough to drag my sorry butt out of the line of fire when the poop hits the oscillating device. The Marine Corps CFT is a good start. See the attached link below. Old link but it gives an idea of what is required. If you can do that then you shouldn't have a waist problem and you are Combat Ready.

http://www.military.com/military-fitness/marine-corps-fitness-requirements/marine-corps-combat-fitness-test

Marine Corps Combat Fitness Test (CFT)

The CFT is intended to keep Marines ready for the physical rigors of contemporary combat operations.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 7 at 2017 1:32 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 07 Jul 2017 01:32:11 -0400

PRT sucks, PERIOD! If it was so good, why is the average Division I athlete or even professional athlete in better shape than the average soldier? My middle school gym class was harder than Army PT. I'm sure the majority of soldiers think PRT is a joke, looks stupid & is not effective was well. There's a reason Special Operations & other major organizations outside of the Army have not adopted it. I will never buy into that crap, it does nothing but promote injury & decreases one's current level of fitness.

My childhood basketball coach was a strength & conditioning coach for both Division I & Professional athletes & does not back PRT. He says it was "poorly constructed and isn't effective in taking people to the next level." I will believe him over any NCO because he has the proof to back up his expertise. Whoever came up with PRT obviously has no experience working with elite athletes.

Response by SPC Ryan Galasso made Jun 26 at 2019 6:34 PM

SPC Ryan Galasso — Wed, 26 Jun 2019 18:34:32 -0400

when I enlisted In 2010 I believe PRT was just in its infancy it worked well then I firmly agree with its use

Response by WO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 30 at 2019 4:59 PM

WO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 30 Jun 2019 16:59:03 -0400

I went through Ft, Benning in ‘07, I believe PRT was just starting to be implemented then. It can yield some impressive results.

However; combining D&C and a PT program...is just annoying. Salute the flag, get into extended rectangular formation and do the workouts; without the “starting position move” “position of attention move”. That nonsense makes what could be a good PT session turn into complete drudgery.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 8 at 2019 9:34 PM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 08 Aug 2019 21:34:39 -0400

I haven't done much in PRT past the initial or refresher level since I've been in the Reserves my entire career (14 years). I can say that the effectiveness of PRT for me was increasing my discipline for formality of positions and just having to tough through all the motions. It becomes exhausting. The physical aspect of PRT I would say helped me get in better shape, but in BCT I believe having everything to do every day greatly helped my conditioning, PT and now PRT itself has become a chore and boring.
If we did away with PRT and had something without all the forceful positions and transitions, I believe that alone would help the idea of doing it.
I like the MRTs when we had them leading our PRT we had more knowledge coming through to us on positioning of performing the exercise, various approved alternatives and such, but it was still not enough to keep the group of us feeling like anything was actually done for improving our conditioning. We still went to the gym and played sports to get our exercise.