Basic training isn't what it used to be! Any thoughts?.

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 14 May 2015 18:39:23 -0400

I recently completed the Basic Airborne Course and what I saw really upset me.

Many Soldiers straight from AIT and newly to the Army have no sense of respect for NCOs and Officers. When direct orders were given they took their time to execute, they were told not to smoke, dip or eat in the barracks, they still did it anyways (trying not to get caught) I lost count of how many times I had to correct soldiers to take their headgear off while inside the building.

Discipline wasn't the only thing they lacked; I was sitting at CQ with two privates and talked to them about TSP, TA, GI Bill and rank structure in the military, they were clueless of what I was talking about.

It bothers me that neither Basic training or AIT takes the time to educate soldiers on basic subjects like this. It seems like nowadays TRADOC spends more time on EO, SHARP, and MRT than to actually sit down with soldiers and give them some good JDP. And "no time" is not an excuse, if you care about the "future of the Army" take the time and mentor.

Response by SGT Nia Chiaraluce made May 14 at 2015 6:59 PM

SGT Nia Chiaraluce — Thu, 14 May 2015 18:59:29 -0400

Preach. I am glad to hear it from another peer. Now, my question is with all the CYA and leaders out for number one, how do we change the tide?

Response by CW4 Private RallyPoint Member made May 14 at 2015 7:00 PM

CW4 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 14 May 2015 19:00:08 -0400

You have only been in for 4 years and I doubt basic has changed that significantly.

Response by CW4 Private RallyPoint Member made May 14 at 2015 7:02 PM

CW4 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 14 May 2015 19:02:36 -0400

The Army is constantly adapting and basic will never be the same as when you went through. Also there is no way to know because you only go through basic once.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made May 14 at 2015 7:15 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 14 May 2015 19:15:28 -0400

If there is one constant in the Army, it is that every Soldier ever thinks that troops today have it easier than they did in Basic Training.
The problem SSG Private RallyPoint Member is not Basic Training, it is their current NCOs. You did well to pitch in and do your part to bring them up to speed.

Response by SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made May 14 at 2015 8:33 PM

SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 14 May 2015 20:33:50 -0400

Agreed 100%!!!!!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 14 at 2015 9:06 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 14 May 2015 21:06:37 -0400

Volunteer for DS duty and be part of the solution. It is easy to be say how broken IET is when you aren't a part of it. I'm not saying you are wrong entirely, just that there is another side you dont see. I was that guy, that blamed a lot on Basic Training and Drill Sergeants. I became a Drill Sergeant and learned that I had not idea what I was talking about and neither do you. The good news is that if you are right and know better, you can earn a hat and go do it the right way. If you are that driven I could sure use you.

Response by SPC Angel Guma made May 14 at 2015 9:18 PM

SPC Angel Guma — Thu, 14 May 2015 21:18:06 -0400

Sgt,

With respect, hopefully this doesn't come across as lack of discipline towards an NCO. I am no longer currently serving, so its not like I have 100% validity to state a case as someone currently serving. That being said, you look very young yourself. Are things really so different from when you were a PFC? Was Basic and AIT really so different?

Response by SFC Steven Harvey made May 14 at 2015 9:40 PM

SFC Steven Harvey — Thu, 14 May 2015 21:40:51 -0400

You haven't been in long enough, what you saw has been happening before you even came in.

You just didn't notice it until you became an NCO.

And to folks saying get betters Brown rounds that's not going to change anything either. I can guarantee their hands are tied.

The problem is just the Army trying to adapt to a new generation of Soldiers, the same thing happens every decade or so just like after Nam those guys who joined after the war was looked at as undisciplined and weak soldiers.

Response by PFC Tuan Trang made May 14 at 2015 9:57 PM

PFC Tuan Trang — Thu, 14 May 2015 21:57:37 -0400

I think it just the individual, Bct taught me alot, i guess they just think that once they become a soldier, they won't get smoke like basic.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 14 at 2015 10:21 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 14 May 2015 22:21:26 -0400

Thanks everyone for taking the time to share your thoughts about my observation during airborne school. For those who think "you've only been in 4 years", just think about the fact that at least I care and do something about it, unlike many of whom have served twice my time or more.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made May 14 at 2015 11:10 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 14 May 2015 23:10:14 -0400

I've worn a uniform for nearly 9 years. I feel confident stating that things have changed. In my first tank company as a PL we had a number of PVTs come to us fresh from OSUT who couldn't pass a PT test. On another occasion myself and a MSG walked up to a new PVT who was attached for a detail. He was sitting there leaning on his car, hands in his pockets, with a cigarette hanging off his lip. When we walked up, his greeting was: "sup?" He had been out of OSUT less than 2 weeks. As a new PVT I wouldn't have dreamed of behaving the way I see new PVTs do on a regular basis. While corrections are made, this appears to be a systemic problem. Personally I think we're failing our young troops in IET. Discipline is what saves lives, not coddling.

Response by SSG Skylur Britz made May 14 at 2015 11:39 PM

SSG Skylur Britz — Thu, 14 May 2015 23:39:56 -0400

I had a soldier ask me what my rank was (I was in ACUs), he was on graduation day from basic.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made May 15 at 2015 12:00 AM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 15 May 2015 00:00:53 -0400

The problem isn't basic training. The problem is NCOs. If standards aren't being enforced then soldiers are less inclined to follow them. The problem is you're the "bad guy" if you make corrections. The problem is NCOs are not being held accountable and this is apparent by looking at our subordinates. I love to use the example of soldiers who say "when I was a new soldier, we...or you never..." The fact remains that times change and we an evolving organization. If you truly want to see change in military bearing and discipline it has to start with leaders. It's not basic training and it's not the soldiers fault. It's his leader's.

DNW

Response by PO1 John Miller made May 15 at 2015 2:37 AM

PO1 John Miller — Fri, 15 May 2015 02:37:28 -0400

I'm sorry to see that it's not just a Navy thing! A lot of the things you've mentioned; lack of respect for Petty Officers, no awareness of programs like TA, TSP, Post 9/11 GI Bill, etc., but mostly a sense of entitlement.

Recruit Division Commanders, or RDC's, Navy's equivalent of Drill Sergeants, can't even punish recruits without fear of being brought up on hazing charges. There was a story in Navy Times a while back about an RDC who punished recruits by having them sing and act out the nursery rhyme "I'm a Little Teapot." The recruits went crying to EO and the RDC was brought up on hazing charges, given NJP, and relieved of RDC duties.

Response by SPC Mark Beard made May 15 at 2015 8:43 AM

SPC Mark Beard — Fri, 15 May 2015 08:43:34 -0400

This was not the case when i went thru Basic learned all said that you see what is missing my first day in basic !!!!!I know the mission and the technology changes but the basic the foundation of the soldiers and teaching them respect discipline should never change we need to go back to how it was in 1970 I think the DIs have their hands tied by policy's and rules my DIs when they told you to do something you had better move and show respect if you were as you describe these troops recycle them intill they would understand the Army way is not your way Thank you My Brother Hansel for your service and for being a outstanding Nco drive on

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 12 at 2017 3:35 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 12 Jan 2017 15:35:26 -0500

American culture is changing. The military is sometimes a reflection of our culture. You will always have slackers. But, from what I have witnessed, the Army is doing fine with discipline. I saw a 1SG walk into a room and everyone stood up. One time, I saw a Private filling HESCOs with a shovel . All you can do is the right thing and influence those around you.

Response by Cpl Rc Layne made Aug 26 at 2017 6:11 PM

Cpl Rc Layne — Sat, 26 Aug 2017 18:11:12 -0400

Blame Mothers of America, not your NCOs.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 26 at 2017 9:16 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 26 Aug 2017 21:16:31 -0400

I had the same problem when I went to Airborne 10 years ago. Its because real NCOs don't wear silly round hats and these privates won't know that until they get to their first duty station.

Response by MSG Johnathan Mathes made Aug 27 at 2017 12:52 PM

MSG Johnathan Mathes — Sun, 27 Aug 2017 12:52:31 -0400

Leadership is how a soldier presents himself... if you haven't been to tradddoc you need to go... it's not as simple s you make it.... remember the sudden blast of promotions in the early 2000s... Nco who didn't know crap didn't teach crap to the younger ncos.. now those that didn't get taught crap are in charge ... what ever happened to you don't blame others you take charge.. being a leader isn't 9 to 5 and weekends free...everyone leads ... who carries a leaders book anymore... it's easy to present problems.. solutions aren't

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 27 at 2017 1:18 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 27 Aug 2017 13:18:50 -0400

This is a symptom of a much larger problem. While I agree with some of the regressing of standards within the Army, many of what we repeat as people and Soldiers needs to be re-evaluated.

For the Army, we keep hearing the same nonsensical "train to standard, not time". Which is incredibly illogical since without time, you cannot achieve standard. Soldiers all absorb knowledge and process information and training at differing speeds. There are so many hours in a day, and you can't dictate as to how quickly anyone achieves standards in a limited time.

One of the biggest problems I see is we're starting to make excuses for Soldiers not reaching standards in standardized times, and at the same time, we're also not giving leaders the required time to train our Soldiers to standard.

Response by SGT Anna Kleinschmidt made Aug 27 at 2017 3:54 PM

SGT Anna Kleinschmidt — Sun, 27 Aug 2017 15:54:42 -0400

I was shocked when I visited my son's basic for his graduation. It was completely lax! I found out that they had people come in and clean, no kp, and my husband was a 1st sgt and no one was jumping to parade rest when he walked in! There was no dicipline at all plus he called home all the time! I the only way I got to touch a phone for my first 4 weeks was to dust it. There has been 7 sucidies from my son's unit that has gone to afagahanstan And I am worried about my son. I believe that the lack of dicipline and a lack of stress placed on them in basic that is needed to condition them for the greater amount of stress that is expirenced during war and the dicipline to survive it both mentally and physically.