'Bring back DADT' post: Personal update. See below

2014-06-29T01:46:41-04:00

To all who have been personally affected by this post, I extend my public and personal apology. Be assured that IN NO WAY was this post intended to impinge on anyone's personal beliefs. As previously stated, I still have the same stand on 'keep it to yourself' on whatever choices you make. That means gay AND straight.

That also means if I hear anyone talking about how many b**%&es they knocked up or junk in the trunk, I will still politely and firmly ask them to stop. I also realized that I'm a service member just like most of us here. Offending and causing strife amongst brothers and sisters in arms was my ABSOLUTELY LAST INTENTION.

If anything, this post served for me as a personal lesson on how to express myself on public media, especially in writing, and hope it served a lesson for you to choose your words carefully, especially when addressing most of us wearing uniform here on Rallypoint.

I also wanted to thank MAJ Yinon Weiss for encouraging me to deal with it, learn from people's reactions, and restating my view in less hostile manner. Once again, as a brother and sister in arms, I may not like your certain points of view and you may not like some of mine, but let's agree to disagree, express ourselves more tactfully, and stay focused on our mission to this beloved country of ours.
Hooyah, hooah, hoorah, and hip-hip hooray (USAF?)

Response by MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca made Jun 29 at 2014 7:20 AM

2014-06-29T07:20:39-04:00

DADT is in the past so IMHO, lets leave it there. Everyone has the right and privilege to serve their country and DoD has accounted for it. As for pride events, (there was a post on that a while back about color guards and pride events that is relevant) that's an individual's right and choice SO LONG AS they are not doing what the picture you posted shows - that's out of bounds, against regs and could lead us towards the S&G situation.

https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/gay-lesbian-pride-color-guard-in-uniform

Gay Lesbian Pride color guard in Uniform | RallyPoint

The Department of Defense has authorized what military gay-rights groups and organizers of the Capital Pride parade say is a first nationwide — a color guard that will present the red, white and blue as well as flags of each branch of the military. I'm going to leave it at this. I believe sexual orientation and military should be kept separate whatever your choice is. Why is this allowed when other causes such as a political rally in support...

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 29 at 2014 8:14 AM

2014-06-29T08:14:00-04:00

Recently, a wide search of the genome has given significant or close to significant linkage values with regions 7q36, 8p12 and 10q26, which need to be studied more closely. Deviation in the proportion of X chromosome inactivation in mothers of homosexuals seems to favor the presence of genes related with sexual orientation in this chromosome.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19961060

Our model predicts that homosexuality is part of a wider phenomenon in which recently evolved androgen-influenced traits commonly display gonad-trait discordances at substantial frequency, and that the molecular feature underlying most homosexuality is not DNA polymorphism(s), but epi-marks that evolved to canalize sexual dimorphic development that sometimes carryover across generations and contribute to gonad-trait discordances in opposite-sex descendants.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23397798

[Influence of genetic factors on human sexual orientation. Review]. - PubMed - NCBI

Invest Clin. 2009 Sep;50(3):377-91. English Abstract; Review

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 29 at 2014 8:47 AM

2014-06-29T08:47:32-04:00

The military has evolved, learn to adapt with change as the world has changed. Personal opinions do not govern what we do a society, it is the collective will of the people that has brought about this change. We can either choose to accept it or leave the military and rail against it. But know this, there are still people in the world that believe women should not serve and blacks are not equal to whites. And those people are entitled to their opinions. But we as a society do not agree and we as a military do not agree with those individuals who choose to continue to oppress others. We have always stood for freedom and that is what this is, the freedom to be who you feel you were born to be. Nothing more, nothing less.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 29 at 2014 8:55 AM

2014-06-29T08:55:26-04:00

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member I'm sorry I had to down vote you this. It's only the 3rd time I've ever done it, but I don't believe this mentality has anyplace in today's military. We are changing and everyone needs to get on board or get out. Some may have personal opinions, and that is okay to have, but we cannot advocate going backwards in time to reverse the will of the people. It's just not right.

Response by SSG V. Michelle Woods made Jun 29 at 2014 11:42 AM

2014-06-29T11:42:07-04:00

I dont believe a person's sexual preference should be celebrated by the military but if someone wants to celebrate making strides in homosexual rights out of uniform, then I say go for it.

I feel the military's problem is they say sexual preference doesn't matter and yet our living conditions are still separated by gender. I was told we're separated to reduce the risk of sexual harassment, fraternization and pregnancy. But sexual preference isn't suppose to matter because we're all soldiers...??

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 29 at 2014 11:50 AM

2014-06-29T11:50:18-04:00

1LT Shawn McCarthy you will have to break it down for me, because it sounds more like you and PO1 Private RallyPoint Member have an issue with DADT from a religious standpoint, rather than a practical one. I'm sorry if the repeal of DADT conflicts with your viewpoints, but that is not a reason advocate for subjugation of a sect of the population to appease your moral values.

Response by SFC Jeffrey Thivierge, MA, BSN, RN made Jun 29 at 2014 12:24 PM

2014-06-29T12:24:11-04:00

I don't know about everybody else, but I like tater tots.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 29 at 2014 12:52 PM

2014-06-29T12:52:12-04:00

Let's be real about DADT. It was a tool used to "allow members to maintain their dignity" - but it was also a farce. I served alongside multiple gay members throughout my years of service. We live in a society in which there have been and will continue to be members of said society that do NOT behave in manners in which we approve. The CIA and NSA both figured out how to deal with members who are gay, lesbian, etc., and it's high time we do the same.

Here's an interesting point to consider: many of the arguements put forth by those who continue to want to isolate, discriminate and castigate those who openly declare their sexual preferences are precisely the same arguements used to attempt to continue the "separate but equal" statutes against black members of our society. Those arguements were proven false time and again in the instances used against blacks.

If someone's sexual preferences and openness bother you - have a conversation with them and be honest but polite. Trust me, being honest and saying "I feel uncomfortable when you do......" will go a lot further than trying any other method. BTW, that method works for a lot of situations.

Going back to DADT is not going to happen - mostly because you can't. Congress said it's not legal to do it any longer. Get over youself.

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 29 at 2014 2:03 PM

2014-06-29T14:03:58-04:00

I was all for DADT being repealed as I think everyone should have the right to serve openly. However, what concerns me, and concerned me even before DADT, (but we couldn't do anything about it because of DADT) is gay servicemembers in living quarters. No, I don't have a solution, but when you get down to it, in the navy, on a ship, you have separate male and female living quarters. WHY? For privacy, and let's be real, to prevent hanky panky from those who may be hooking up. During DADT, you may have "known" who your fellow servicemembers were who were gay, but nobody ever admitted it and nothing could ever be done about it. I knew specifically of 2 girls in my berthing area who were dating each other. EVERYBODY knew it, but DADT protected them, and they were ALWAYS together. I never actually saw them doing anything, but they were in the same living quarters.... they weren't separated. Meanwhile, I was separated from the guy I was dating because we were heterosexual and opposite sexes.

No, I don't have a solution to the problem, but I think it's an interesting situation. Certainly not "fair" that men and women are separated but because of the choice to be homosexual, those standards don't apply.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 29 at 2014 2:09 PM

2014-06-29T14:09:20-04:00

While I wholly respect your religious "choices," your language and intent are out of line. All members of the team deserve respect, and while I personally don't share their sexual preference, that has absolutely nothing to do with our roles in a professional military. I suggest that you spend some time working on your separation of personal belief and professional role as a Petty Officer, remembering that the homosexual Sailors in your charge will need your unbiased leadership and mentorship to accomplish the mission.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 29 at 2014 2:39 PM

2014-06-29T14:39:40-04:00

I think a lot of people think there is going to be this big 'outing' and people flaunting their gayness, but you forget that we're in the military. Has anyone witnesses first hand someone gay or lesbian that’s flaunting themselves during duty hours? Gays & lesbians don't feel that this is something they should have to disclose even though the policy allows them to serve openly without fear or reprisal. Straight people don't have to disclose their orientation. Just like you and me they want to bring their family to family events, they want to put family pictures on their desk. I mean are they actually coming up to you and saying, 'Hi, there, I'm gay (lesbian)’.

Privacy, there were privacy issues before DADT, during DADT and after the repeal of DADT. I hear “well I don’t want them looking at me when I’m in the shower, it’d make me uncomfortable if I knew they’re gay”. (When I use the word gay I am referring to both genders for the sake of having to type extra keystrokes). First of all did you ask if they were gay, did they come and tell you they were gay? So why in the hell would you be uncomfortable? Or was an assumption made and you just thought they were gay and made you uncomfortable anyways? What in the world made you think they were looking at you in the shower or in your room or checking you out as you walked by? Who says they were doing any of those things? That being said wouldn’t that make it a violation of SHARP under today’s standards, because it does apply to EVERYONE right?

Separate facilities, I hear this a lot, we’ll just make separate facilities. The creation of a third or possibly fourth category of bathroom facilities and living quarters, whether at bases or forward deployed areas, would be a logistical nightmare, expensive and impossible to administer. Separate facilities would stigmatize gay and lesbian Service members in a manner reminiscent of 'separate but equal' facilities for blacks prior to the 1960's.

Now should gays be a special military class, no. Everyone in the military must abide by the same UCMJ, SHARP, EEO, conflict resolution, and ethics and whatever else is out there. Should there be a different diversity program, no, but I hear that June is going to be Pride Month. Okay, so there’s a Pride month, whoopey f***ing deal. Is it really going to affect you that much? The history of these cultural and heritage observances we currently have celebrates & sheds light on the achievements minority groups have made in a country where they often faced discrimination. Let’s call it what it really is “hey all this month is for you, we know we gave you a crappy time and made it unbearable at times while you served, so we hope this makes up for it”.

I got friends who are gay, even had a roommate who was gay during DADT. We’re having a conversation and I asked him ‘is it that hard to hide that you’re gay’? I told him don’t worry, I’m not telling anyone, this is just me and him talking. But the look on his face said it all, his heart stopped, face frozen in fear, muscles tense, color running from his face and starting to sweat profusely. I didn’t have to worry about him being my roommate, we were clear we weren’t each others type. Change takes time, but yet intolerances & stigmas are still going to be there no matter how many times you recite the Army Values, read your bible or make policies. These same intolerance exist out there in the real world, why should the military be different.

Maybe we can now move on to issues more pressing to the military, like PTSD recognition and treatment, the stress of multiple deployments, assistance for disabled service members, unemployment rates for veterans, the rise of heterosexual sexual assault among the troops, blue on blue violence and the high suicide rate.

Response by PO1 William "Chip" Nagel made Jun 29 at 2014 7:55 PM

2014-06-29T19:55:39-04:00

I didn't serve to "Protect Rights" just for some and not others. I am a big time believer in Civil Rights. I served with several individuals that were LGBT. Didn't see a problem with it then and don't now. If they feel Pride in being themselves I say "Thank God" enough in this country would prefer they Hate themselves. I don't feel like anything is being "Shoved down my throat". I still like the Ladies and my Gay Friends are not going to change that. I am a Proud Member of the White Rose Society and the Christian Left and and Honorary Member of the Rainbow Rose Society.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 29 at 2014 9:43 PM

2014-06-29T21:43:11-04:00

There should be a color guard at EVERY event. That way it is more equal

Response by LTC Paul Labrador made Jun 29 at 2014 11:03 PM

2014-06-29T23:03:06-04:00

If allowing homosexuals to serve was the way we were going, fine. Allow them to serve openly, but they should have kept DADT. DADT didn't just cover homosexual behavior. It covered ALL sexual behavior. I don't want your sexuality, whether homo or hetero being displayed at work.

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 29 at 2014 11:26 PM

2014-06-29T23:26:00-04:00

Whether it's a choice or not, people are allowed to celebrate whatever they like. If you don't want to talk about gay pride, don't engage in the conversation. So what if they have a parade? In what way does it inconvenience you? In fact, it makes just as much sense to celebrate sexual preference as it does celebrating ethnicity, in that it makes none. Both were genetic accidents and you had no hand in accomplishing anything pertaining. Calling it a choice or invoking your version of morality doesn't detract from their right to self-expression.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 30 at 2014 2:14 AM

2014-06-30T02:14:34-04:00

The idea of don't ask don't tell is not to bad, but it don't have to be a regulation just keep it simple. We don't ask and they don't tell cause it really don't matter, I'm not going to tell you
"Why yes, I like sleeping with woman far more then with men" cause well... why should I? its irreverent to the task at hand. My desire for a man or woman should not affect my ability to do my job and if it dose there are bigger problems then sexual orientation to worry about.

Regarding sharing a room\showers with a open gay person. They follow regulations like everyone else, no inappropriate actions, keep it professional.

Response by SGT Christopher Mackison made Jun 30 at 2014 8:21 AM

2014-06-30T08:21:21-04:00

I feel that we shouldn't go back to don't ask don't tell, someone shouldn't have to hide who they are in or out of uniform. But I think the time for celebration is over.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 30 at 2014 11:37 AM

2014-06-30T11:37:39-04:00

As a straight male and active duty member of the Navy I'm offended by the question. We have opened the closet and allowed those who were in it to step out and be accepted. Training was put in place as a result. To go back to the old dark times is an insult to those who respect their choices as well as those who had to hide all these years. So no we should not go back.

Response by MSG Floyd Williams made Jun 30 at 2014 12:33 PM

2014-06-30T12:33:34-04:00

The U.S is divided with so many issues such as race, sexual orientation, social status, politics, sexism, and much more which is weakening our country and military more and more. We are loosing the war on terrorism and drugs because of the in-house battle among us, I hope this won't cause our downfall it is a big concern for me. The "Don't Ask, Don't Tell," is already out of the box, it is too late to reinstate it in my opinion. I won't vote up or down on this issue, I don't have the authority to control people lives. If we look at all the serious problems in American society which one is priority to find a solution to it? It would take a lifetime to solve all the problems, but it will never be solved at our limited power as long as there is life on this earth. God want us to be the peacemakers not to try to do His job.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 30 at 2014 12:53 PM

2014-06-30T12:53:39-04:00

No we should not bring back don't ask don't tell. Someone's sexual preference should have nothing to do with the military and I am glad that it's gone. I have two gay soldiers, one is married and his husband is our FRG leader. I am sure some people have an issue with it, but you know what? They both do a good job at what they do and their sexual preference has nothing to do with it.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 30 at 2014 12:57 PM

2014-06-30T12:57:58-04:00

PO1 Jacob Dronzin, you put choices in capital letters in order to show your opinion. I got that. However, you may want to look at the facts and science rather than your religion and OPINION. You don't just choose to be gay and that is scientific fact. So this isn't about a choice. It's about a fellow service members right to serve and not have to hide who they are from YOU without fear of retribution or harassment.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 30 at 2014 2:57 PM

2014-06-30T14:57:34-04:00

Well we are already going to disagree I can tell, but that is okay. That's what this place is for. If you ever have the desire to read about neuroscience then I can send you a few, and I find quite interesting articles, that are scientifically supporting that it is NOT A CHOICE. But I think what you are more looking to debate is the bringing back of DADT. I do not think we should. I believe moving forward and accepting human beings as they are, as long as they are not hurting others, is something we should do. Especially if they are willing to serve, and die for their country. I would rather have the willing and motivated shipmate next to me , that feels comfortable being who they fundamentally are around me, hands down any day. We should always strive to move forward as a culture and treat each other equally.

Response by PO1 Floyd Clark made Jun 30 at 2014 5:23 PM

2014-06-30T17:23:14-04:00

There is no Choice there, it just is. You would not be able to make a choice to change your orientation the same way I cannot, one of the reasons that so called gay conversion therapy is a farce and discredited by every medical and mental health organization in the country.

Response by SPC(P) Thomas Beliveau made Jul 4 at 2014 6:17 AM

2014-07-04T06:17:32-04:00

Ever been to an enlisted barracks on a Saturday night? We got Sodom and Gomorrah beat by miles.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 1 at 2014 2:49 PM

2014-08-01T14:49:37-04:00

Repelling DADT is not abour parading someone's sexual preference. Is about the the spouse's benefits. Under DADT, if a same sex couple got married, the spouse of the soldier would not be entitled to any benefits because it was a big no no to tell the military that you were gay. Now, same sex spouses have the same benefits as heterosexual spouses. And that's a good thing, there's no discrimination because of someones sexual preference.

Now, about the whole parade thing they do and all that gay pride stuff, I think is stupid. The way I see it, there's a difference between equal rights, and asking for special treatments. And to me the parades and the whole gay pride thing is just people asking for special treatment. If you are gay, cool, live your life with who ever you want, that don't bother me at all. We can even be best friends for all I care. But don't try to shove down other peoples throat your sexual preference because that's nobody's business. You don't see heterosexuals parading and wearing "heterosexual pride" tshirts. lol

Response by PO1 Rudy Lopez made Aug 5 at 2014 1:58 PM

2014-08-05T13:58:41-04:00

When you say "I don't think we should celebrate one's sexual CHOICES" then you are also lumping in marriage ceremonies in a traditional (man/woman) wedding (i.e. your choice to be heterosexual).

I have no problems with gay/lesbian couples as they are people too; and they have been serving honorably long under the radar. However, a display of action like in the caption you have provided is wrong on the part of the service members to a certain point. Should they be able to celebrate their newfound freedom of sexual preference oppression? Yes, but not while wearing anything that actively displays their service or unit. The service member should have to "celebrate" their activities in civilian clothes as though they were taking part of a political function; out of uniform and in civilian attire. Do I believe the caption above is a little tacky? Yes. Should they be allowed to celebrate? Yes. Should they be able to carry their banner? Yes, because it represents all the armed forces. Should the individuals above (if indeed service members) be wearing what they are wearing, displaying service affiliation? No.

Of course, these are just my opinions.

Response by SCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 5 at 2014 2:29 PM

2014-08-05T14:29:07-04:00

Whether homosexuality is a preference or an orientation may be debatable (part of that question depends on what one means by each word). It is also largely irrelevant to the question of DADT repeal.

Discrimination for any number of choices are not allowed in our military - religion (or lack thereof), political affiliation (or lack thereof), racial/ethnic identity of one's partner/girlfriend/boyfriend/spouse/husband/wife are just some of the examples of choices that are protected. The fact that some religions (or political parties, families, etc...) believe and teach that some choices are wrong is also protected - another example of protected choices.

The idea that no one was hunted down under DADT is preposterous. The 1999 case of PFC Barry Winchell and the case against Margaret Witt (Witt v. Department of the Air Force) are just two examples of the way that service members could be victimized in the DADT environment. That leaves out the pervasive fear that many gay and lesbian service members felt.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 5 at 2014 3:02 PM

2014-08-05T15:02:01-04:00

http://www.godandscience.org/evolution/genetics_of_homosexuality.html

Are People Born Gay? Genetics and Homosexuality

Contrary to media portrayals, a link between genetics and homosexuality is not certain. Many initial, poorly designed studies have been contradicted by more recent, better designed ones.

Response by SGT Jay Ehrenfeld made Aug 5 at 2014 6:13 PM

2014-08-05T18:13:40-04:00

this make me sick to the core the DOD promote against the regulation it make me sick to look at it

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 5 at 2014 8:42 PM

2014-08-05T20:42:14-04:00

On one hand I do agree that PDA is inappropriate regardless of sexuality. Same as E4s and below or 1st and 2nd LTs not giving proper respect to their seniors. And soldiers reeking of alcohol in PT formation or soldiers smoking and walking or talking on their cell phone while walking.
should we make it that you always attend Military Balls and other functions alone without your spouse? That you have no pictures of your spouse or family displayed in your office? That when referring to your spouse with other service members you refer to him/her as "Your roommate"? Because if you are not doing just that then you are bringing a double standard into the discussion.

What if you have a subordinate service member that comes to you as their leader that is having problems? Say that their "Roommate" was injured or killed and needed time off work? Are you saying that they cannot talk to you about it because their "Roommate" is of the same sex that they are?

We are Non-Commissioned Officers, Professionals and Leaders. We need to remember that you will be fair and impartial in our leadership. Also remember that, Just like Facebook, what we post on here can have lasting effects. At some point in our careers we will have a soldiers and sailors as subordinates that will be LGBT. You have to present ourselves in a manner that our soldier/sailor can come to us about anything and feel that they can respect us and have confidence in us and that they can trust us. We may also have a someone in our NCO Support Chain that is LGBT and we will have to interact with them in a professional manner that does not denote a prejudice or a bias so that they can have faith in our abilities as leaders.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 5 at 2014 9:42 PM

2014-08-05T21:42:03-04:00

I am really surprised that people are still viewing homosexuality as a "choice." I am heterosexual, but never thought of it as a "choice". It just is what it is. If there was an on/off switch for this, I highly doubt gay teenagers would be committing suicide every year over this "choice".
I admit that I have struggled to understand "gay pride", though. I don't have a "hetero pride". But I'm trying to learn.
In every unit I have been in, everybody just kind of knew who was gay, anyway. The whole "don't ask, don't tell" thing never really mattered. Some of the best, most proficient soldiers I knew just happened to be gay. I mean, shouldn't competency count more than someone's sexuality anyway?
Affairs happen on the daily in the military...where is the outrage in that? There is none, as long as it's between a male and a female. Yet, having an affair is most definitely a sexual choice. And since you referenced Sodom and Gomorrah, religious influence plays a part in your assessment. So, what of the other "evils" service-members indulge in? And maybe my view is skewed because female soldiers, in my experience, don't care about whether another soldier is a lesbian, as long as she pulls her weight.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 5 at 2014 9:56 PM

2014-08-05T21:56:00-04:00

This homosexuality question is a manner of how other soldiers perceive DADT. It's all debatable. However, real world implications come into play here. For example, the Governor of Oklahoma wants to deny spousal benefits to ALL soldiers, simply because it would include allowing benefits to gay couples as well!
This woman defied a Presidential decree because of her hatred of gays. And is this something that should be tolerated? Seriously?

"Oklahoma law is clear. The state of Oklahoma does not recognize same-sex marriages, nor does it confer marriage benefits to same-sex couples. The decision reached today allows the National Guard to obey Oklahoma law without violating federal rules or policies. It protects the integrity of our state constitution and sends a message to the federal government that they cannot simply ignore our laws or the will of the people."

Ridiculous!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 5 at 2014 10:24 PM

2014-08-05T22:24:59-04:00

I'm happy to have served with, AND currently serve with homosexual Soldiers. The very definition of, and expectations of a Soldier are clearly outlined in more regulations than I can shake a stick at, and until the actions of any Soldier violate those regulations what they do in their off time or in their bedrooms is irrelevant to the Unit, Army, or the Nation.

What's the next logical step PO1 Dronzin? What if my wife and I decide to support contraceptive use, and attend a Trojan brand condom rally, and you find that choice offensive due to either your religion or upbringing. Do we begin to regulate that?

I think it would behoove all to focus on developing the next generation of Soldiers and meeting our mission.

Response by SFC Vernon McNabb made Aug 6 at 2014 2:26 PM

2014-08-06T14:26:12-04:00

I don't belive we should "bring back" the Don't Ask, Don't Tell, but rather the policy name should change to "Don't Ask, Don't Tell, Don't Care!" From a military standpoint, I do not care if one is heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual or try-sexual. Ask yourself these three simple questions: Can he/she do their job? Will their preference slow me down? Is the sexual preference impeding their ability to get the job done? If you answered YES, NO and NO, then move out and draw fire!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 6 at 2014 2:48 PM

2014-08-06T14:48:56-04:00

Absolutely not We should revrt to removing every Homosexual from the mlitary service dont ask dnt tell was nothing more than a farcewe need to not only force them from the military but alsoban homosexul marriage and even civil unions take backour word Gay which means merry, joyuce, happy notsome peverted sexual preference that is taugt it is not natural. We need t turn tis country and is beliefs back to God and mral thinking not bending over backwards to please a peverted minority but back to our christiann roots and heratige as laid out by our founding fathers. Furthermore we need to close our borders usng miltary force to do so even it it means executing those that cross the border illegaly an those that help them to cross.

Response by SMSgt Frank Yukon made Aug 6 at 2014 5:55 PM

2014-08-06T17:55:11-04:00

Have not had a chance to read all of the responses so I will just go ahead and mention that the local Joint Base Lewis-McChord newspaper printed an article by an Air Force Pilot bragging how she and her female partner were now fully entrenched in Military Life and how happy and proud they were to be a couple accepted regardless of their same gender attraction sexuality.

Who, back in the day, would have ever guessed such an article would be published in a military newspaper. Go figure?? God Bless America!!

Response by SSG Robert Burns made Aug 6 at 2014 10:46 PM

2014-08-06T22:46:22-04:00

This discussion needs more cow bell.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 6 at 2014 10:54 PM

2014-08-06T22:54:27-04:00

I'd say maybe they should just castrate everyone that makes it through IET. If we're all eunuchs then there is no preference. The Sexual Assault problem goes away. The only problem with doing that is... after a couple of generations of no soldiers breeding, we'd run out of people who are willing and able to be soldiers.

Response by SFC James Barnes made Aug 6 at 2014 11:10 PM

2014-08-06T23:10:23-04:00

I'm sorry I had to laugh a little bit at this thread before I responded. Now to the topic at hand. DADT really has no place in our military and honestly when it comes down to it I don't give two rips if your gay or not as long as you do your job. Look LGBT are not going anywhere and there has been many who have served in the military before my father even joined so this is not a new thing.

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 7 at 2014 12:18 AM

2014-08-07T00:18:49-04:00

You have to remember, the military is often the face of america overseas. If other countries see we discriminate like that in our own ranks, its a sign of weakness. Plus every American, service member or not has the right to be happy in what ever way they legally can, and last time i checked you can not make a thought or feeling illegal.

Response by CPO Christopher Chumbley made Aug 7 at 2014 4:20 AM

2014-08-07T04:20:44-04:00

I served both before and during don't ask don't tell. I also served with sailors that I knew where homosexual. I did not give a damn. I only carred if they did their job and took care of their shipmates. I only was involved in one case in my career that sexual prefence was an issue. I was the OOD and recieved a call about 0200 from the Airforce Police at a neighboring base telling me that they had one of the sailors from my command in custody and asking me to come pick him up. It took me 5 minutes to even get them to tell me what the charges were. Then another 20 minutes to get the details of the violation and arrest from the incredibly embarrassed young female 2nd Lt. One of their patrols had noticed a single car in an otherwise empty parking lot. Upon approaching the vehicle they discovered two completely naked young men together in the back seat doing something that no amount of coaxing from me would get the 2nd Lt to tell me over the phone exactly what they were doing except that it was sexual. I thanked her for calling and told her that someone would be there soon to pick him up. I then spent the next 10 minutes rolling on the floor laughing, trying not to pee my pants, telling my on duty fire and security watch the story, and wondering how to write this in the log book. Now for you non-Navy types as the OOD (Officer Of the Deck) I was notionally the second in command while the CO and XO are away from the command. I was an E-5 at the time and had just been counseling an Air Force Officer about how to do her job. Do you think for a minute that I was going to go pick him up? The CDO (Command Duty Officer) was in Command but it was a sleep-in watch who was only awakened in the event that there was something going on that the OOD could not handle, or when the CO and XO needed to be notified. The CDO that night happened to be an old Navy Chief so woke him up, handed him a hot cup of coffee and then explained the situation to him. He made me repeat it three times and just kept shaking his head. He went and got the guy and confined him to his barracks room except that he had to report to me in full dress uniform for a thorough inspection every 30 minutes. This was in 1985. He was a complete dirt bag or he might have been able to stay in with an NJP. As it was he got an Admin Discharge and was back in the States and out of the Navy in just under 24 hours.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 7 at 2014 9:14 AM

2014-08-07T09:14:15-04:00

Please take the time to research a valid argument before posting an opinion if you expect to encourage a proper discussion. This website is not about getting likes or dislikes but this thread seems to be geared towards such. I don’t think you understand what the DADT policy is nor do you grasp why it is a step forward. If you do understand this all, then please post more in your original argument. As for my opinion, I think we are slowly heading down the correct path.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 7 at 2014 10:25 AM

2014-08-07T10:25:03-04:00

You are incredibly ignorant and uneducated. Your pathetic attempt to spin inaccurate data falls woefully short. Being gay is a choice, just like being heterosexual is a choice. Oh wait, you didn't choose to be straight. The only choice here, is your daily choice to be a bigot and stick your nose where it doesn't belong. It's 2014. If you can't handle a gay soldier looking out for your best interests, leave the Army and join the corporate world. But warning: corporate America expects you to tolerate your co-workers too!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 7 at 2014 10:49 AM

2014-08-07T10:49:06-04:00

No, DADT was a poorly conceived compromise. It should never have been within the military's purview to control in any way the private speech or actions of service members, especially during their off-duty time. If you can participate in KKK Clan demonstrations and belong to clearly offensive and destructive organizations then there is no justifiable reason to discriminate against sexual identities.

First, homosexuality was never illegal under DADT, only the open display or declaration of sexual preference. A soldier was well within their right to march in an LGB pride parade during DADT so long as they did not declare their personal sexual preference publicly or leave evidence (photographs, videos, partners/witnesses willing to testify) of their sexuality. In fact I have inspected rooms of soldiers with gay porn in their lockers that a platoon sergeant wanted to use to expel the soldier but of course nothing about possession proves anything about sexuality logically or under DADT.

Second, DADT led to an atmosphere of fear for those that were gay and misinformation for those that weren't. For many, the knowledge that their battle buddy was gay could become a burden. Regulation (until close to the end of the policy) dictated if you witnessed a soldier performing homosexual acts or publicly declaring there homosexuality you were to report them. What kind of unit cohesion can you have if a person is forced to guard every word or action when it is a core part of their identity? Regulations like this instead lead to contempt for authority because many simply will not follow the rules they disagree with and human psychology tends to correlate and generalize.

Finally, public demonstrations in uniform without command approval and support are wrong. Period. I would go even farther and say that commands should not support or approve service members participating while in uniform in any kind of political demonstration, rally, parade, etc... On the other hand, the picture on this post shows service members not in their uniform but in t-shirts that display their service affiliations (most services allow the wear of the PT shirt in civilian attire). This is simply a part of their identity, just like it is for any other service member.

DADT needed to be repealed for purely constitutional reasons, never mind the many periphery issues. I do not support forcing any ideology on anyone and I don't believe that sexual preference deserves to be a protected class, but neither should religious artifacts in our social and political system be allowed to influence the policy of the military or our society.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 7 at 2014 4:25 PM

2014-08-07T16:25:51-04:00

As an openly gay soldier since before the repeal of DADT (I have the luxury of being in an incredibly close unit whom I consider family, others aren't so fortunate), the fact that this statement was made astounds me. Tell me how, since September 2011, the repeal has caused so much distress in your life or in the military that you think it should be reinstated? DADT was an unconstitutional policy that deliberately targeted one social minority. There's literally no reason for us to be living in a modern society while maintaining a primitive distaste for something completley normal just because it's not fully understood. It's nothing that causes harm to people, it's nothing that is negative in any way; the only thing that makes it negative is the mindset you have. I suggest you stop that mindset and get with the times. It's 2014, gay is nothing new. Focus on your troops and make sure they receive the best, unbiased, indiscrimate leadership and training.

Response by SSG Kevin McCulley made Aug 7 at 2014 9:33 PM

2014-08-07T21:33:07-04:00

Matters of intimacy do not belong in the workplace period. Gay, Straight, or multi-sexual alien war robot. It is unprofessional. The reason we wear uniforms is so that we ARE uniform. Individuality should be minimized.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 8 at 2014 2:53 AM

2014-08-08T02:53:40-04:00

Problem with DADT and DOMA etc is that it in application to the military did not allow people to be their true selves. I personally do not care what someone does in their own home, on their own time, as long as it is legal.

The fact that people were discharged for it was pretty stupid. DADT was pretty moronic as chances are you knew anyways. People having to live in fear of others finding out or being mad and reporting it is no way to work and live a life.

SGLI and Death Gratuity was never an issue because you can allot that to anyone, but benefits not being able to be had by the other partner is pretty low. They face the same hardships as a straight service member on deployment and their significant other, worry, fear, why deny them the ability to be recognized?

One of my best friends and one the by far best 2LT's I have seen came out that he is gay and got married. If I had to deploy somewhere and he was in my AO I would worry much less than some hyper straight incompetent idiot. You would never know this guy was gay, unless he told you or you saw him with his husband. He told me right after DADT was appealed and took his then boyfriend to the Mil Ball. A few cadets had some issues with it, including by far one of the worst LTs I have seen. I told the guy then, it is army policy, deal with it or get out. And for finality, I would never want to deploy anywhere with you ever and would go downrange with him without any reservations.

The American public makes this a bigger deal than it is, a marriage in the eyes of the government is a contract between two consenting adults largely for tax purposes. Denying it is denying someones pursuit of happiness. Don't like gay marriage don't get one. On the other hand, the church has their say and gay couples can work that aspect of the wedding out on their own.

Bottom line is incoming bullets don't care about orientation, neither do I. I do care if it is paraded or used as a status symbol and distracts soldiers and NCO's from mission readiness and as long as that doesn't happen I am fine with it. To each their own.

Summary: Relationship and Orientation matters belong at home. No one needs that, they need to be training or self studying.

Response by CPO Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 8 at 2014 1:06 PM

2014-08-08T13:06:38-04:00

Why does any of this even matter? I dont care if my guys are gay, straight, confused...whatever... I just expect the work to get done, the equipment to get fixed, and no one gets shocked or hurt. Thats all i care about and everyone else should be the same way. We are here to serve, not to sit our a**es down and waste time deliberating on meaningless issues. There are bigger problems in the armed forces....budgets...broken ships..overspending on ridiculous items of the poorest quality..sexual assault..DUI... THOSE are issues.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 8 at 2014 5:38 PM

2014-08-08T17:38:45-04:00

While I agree that people should not be openly talking about their sexual lives (who really cares?), bringing DADT back is not the way to do. You had the right idea, but the wrong opening statement for it. Something completely different (other than "Bring back DADT") would be the better way to address the situation.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 8 at 2014 6:29 PM

2014-08-08T18:29:36-04:00

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member, thanks for your personal update. I don't believe you meant harm. It really is sometimes impossible to convey feelings when the medium we must use to convey them is black letters. I think that in many, many ways, the internet has linked the world together, but it has also caused us to lose a lot in how we perceive each other.
Let's be real, if we posted photos of our lives, every hour, onto our news-feeds, we'd realize that the folks posting all those selfies aren't living the perfect life-any more than we are.
So, don't beat yourself up. You posted something that you felt was worth mentioning. And I have zero doubt that you intended it to solicit feedback and not attack. I think we all tiptoe through that mind-field at some point or the other! Your clarification took a lot of maturity. And if someone is too offended to concede the point, that's their personal issue and they have the right (just like you) to debate it further here.

Response by SPC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 9 at 2014 5:51 PM

2014-08-09T17:51:02-04:00

A Soldier's sexual orientation does not in the least bit define their competency in terms of their job, their physical fitness or overall knowledge. To waste time on even thinking of bring back a protocol of such disguised discrimination shows the lack of the ability to prioritize in today military and every other aspect of this world. As the analogy goes, "We have bigger fish to fry."

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 10 at 2014 12:03 AM

2014-08-10T00:03:18-04:00

To answer everyone above SGT Jeremiah Brookins, Po2, SFC Benevedez ect Homosexulity is a choice and what ever idiotic scientist says otherwise also was the same group that published the now disputed Global warming as frour foundng fathers being religous zelots that is exactly what they were as they were breaking away from the european ideas of christianity and if you go o Washington you wil find just how much the Bible influnced our founding fathers with the 10 commandments adorning the halls of congress and the Supreme Court a wll as every other monument there The aurthors or the Declaration of independece and the constitution as well as te articals of confederation were very religous men as they even signed their own death warrants when they signethe Declaration as for myself yes I agree that the Bible teaches to lve thy neighbor but on the other hand i also teaches that the Isrealites were to cmit genicide and wipe out everyone that lived in the area of Cannan which ony portion of that area gven to them by God is now modern day Isreal. it also stats thathomosexuality is an abomination unto the Lord or God and those fond to be practcing shold be taken out and stoned Also because of homosexuality the Lord destroyed both Soddom and Gomorrah by raining brimstone down on the area and I beliieve that if this country does not turn back to God and consider homosexuality to be the abonination that it is that he (God) will dstroy this nation a he did Soddom and Gomorrah and that is why I feel that homosexuls have no place in the miltary, this country, or anywhere else in the world if my beliefs are wrong under the teachings of the Lord or God then I will learn that when I face the Lord on judgment day

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 10 at 2014 12:29 PM

2014-08-10T12:29:37-04:00

It takes a lot to correct yourself like that on a public forum. It says quite a lot about your character. Hooyah, and great job.

Response by SMSgt Alan Saunders made Aug 13 at 2014 2:28 PM

2014-08-13T14:28:42-04:00

DADT was the right policy for dealing with the homosexuality issue for the military. Why should I care what your sexual preference is? I never did. I don't talk about sex with my co-workers and simply ask the same courtesy from others. Now, we have made it an overt issue and created arguing points among the ranks. Why couldn't Congress just leave it alone?

Response by SPC Randy Torgerson made Sep 30 at 2014 2:45 PM

2014-09-30T14:45:21-04:00

Why would you down vote someone who has not only apologized but profoundly admitted detailed fault and set it straight and learned some valuable lessons?

I understand a down vote for the original comments, but on the apology? What am I missing?

Response by SGT Richard H. made Oct 1 at 2014 2:08 PM

2014-10-01T14:08:30-04:00

WOW. 14 down votes for a public apology?? That's pretty screwed up.

Response by SGT Jeremiah B. made Dec 26 at 2019 11:49 AM

2019-12-26T11:49:39-05:00

An upvote brought me back to this (I didn't remember commenting) and I just wanted to say that I'm glad to see the original post has been updated. I respect PO1 Private RallyPoint Member's willingness to recognize his post had angered people and took action to rectify the issue. The willingness of members of the military community to admit they screwed up and take action is one reason I've always kept one foot in it. I mean, we're going to make you work for that win, but I don't see an "I really shouldn't have acted that way" retraction in the civilian world, pretty much ever.

God knows I've stepped in it a few times myself. Apparently, I like my crow extra salty.