Can a commander authorize a PRT standard to the unit?

SGT Ronnie Warford — Mon, 09 May 2016 20:24:14 -0400

I was informed today that the new standard for our unit was 250 or above and if you failed to achieve that standard, you have to take an APFT every month until you meet the standard. I was just trying to see if this is actually lawful. I have some concerned soldiers and they are meeting the ARMY standard but have not yet met the company standard.

Response by SGT Ronnie Warford made May 9 at 2016 8:24 PM

SGT Ronnie Warford — Mon, 09 May 2016 20:24:25 -0400

Thanks in advance

Response by SGM Steve Wettstein made May 9 at 2016 8:27 PM

SGM Steve Wettstein — Mon, 09 May 2016 20:27:31 -0400

They can have goals but they cannot make it a requirement (APFT Score).

Response by SFC Wade W. made May 9 at 2016 8:28 PM

SFC Wade W. — Mon, 09 May 2016 20:28:06 -0400

I do a commander can require a diagnostic APFT as often as he wants.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made May 9 at 2016 8:29 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 09 May 2016 20:29:32 -0400

I do believe a commander can have folks under his command do APFTs as often as he/she desires, as long as these aren't "for record" APFTs, as "for record" APFTs can only be given every four months, per AR 350-1.

Now, the wisdom of such a program....that's another question.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 9 at 2016 8:29 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 09 May 2016 20:29:35 -0400

Ar350-1.

Long and short says yes, however, they cannot be for record. A record apft should have a minimum of 4 months in between. With a few exceptions.

Commander can give a diagnostic apft as much as he wants.

Response by SFC Randy Purham made May 9 at 2016 8:35 PM

SFC Randy Purham — Mon, 09 May 2016 20:35:51 -0400

I say see what "Army WTF moments" have to say about it lol. But I concur with everyone else's comments. AR 350-1 is the guidance. IG could be a probable step as well.

Response by SFC John Hill made May 9 at 2016 9:03 PM

SFC John Hill — Mon, 09 May 2016 21:03:04 -0400

Yes, IAW AR 350-1 Training-Army Training and Leader Development; Appendix G–9. Physical readiness training Para d (2) Commanders may establish unit APFT and PRT mission related goals which exceed Army minimum standards. Personnel who meet Army minimum standards, but fail to meet unit goals, may not be punished or disciplined. However, they may be required to participate in special conditioning programs which focus on overcoming a weakness.
This additional training cannot be punitive in nature, meaning it must be conducted during the normal duty day. APFT failures can be ordered to attend “remedial training” after normal duty hours.
Diagnostic APFT, Commanders can administer as often as they like, “for the record” APFT must be announced beforehand.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 9 at 2016 9:17 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 09 May 2016 21:17:42 -0400

If your command is trying to increase the score to a reasonable 250 average and instill some sort of pride as well as helping all soldiers to remain competitive and in shape then I don't see the problem at all. It's not an illegal, immoral or unethical command, and if I were a PSG in that unit I would clearly tell you to "drink water" . You as a Sergeant and I'm assuming a Team Leader should be supporting this initiative to challenge your soldiers and see who is skating by with bellow average performance. Once that 250 is the company standard and you cannot meet the 250 you will be a below average NCO, just food for thought and don't fall in that trap.

Response by SSG Vik Polivka made May 9 at 2016 9:40 PM

SSG Vik Polivka — Mon, 09 May 2016 21:40:22 -0400

From an AR standpoint; yes. A diver has to take an APFT, and DPFT, with the sweet bonus of getting 270, or above on the APFT. Failure to do so results in remedial PT. So, in practice, the Commander does whatever they deem fit.

Response by SGT Kyle Johnson made May 9 at 2016 9:41 PM

SGT Kyle Johnson — Mon, 09 May 2016 21:41:15 -0400

Saw this go sideways on a commander once, since we were all shift workers, it was the NCOs who gave PT for their teams. We had a company standard to meet, above the minimums. Which we all did, less a couple of problem children. Then out of the blue, no matter what time you worked the CO wanted everyone at company PT. We had to schedule a minimal manning for mission and the PT scores fell like a rock. NCOs got blamed, and the CO would not listen that we had it under control before, and motivated our people that in the middle of their time off no formation or PT. Moral hit an all time low... Lucky for us the commander was gone pretty quickly afterward. New WISE commander went back to the old ways. First big company party after a commander left instead of before...

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made May 9 at 2016 10:00 PM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 09 May 2016 22:00:54 -0400

*Note - kept this post, but MAJ Jager and SFC Long are bringing up some good points that's making me consult legal.

Gentlemen,

None of these pieces of advice are actually 100% correct (edit - this is my opinion, added after the fact). AR 350-1 specifically states that a commander can administer an APFT as often as he/she wishes, provided that he/she notifies the SM beforehand that the results are for record.

"Commanders may administer the APFT as often as they wish; however, they must specify beforehand when the results are for record."

*wrong quote on the four months portion

Response by CPT Aaron Kletzing made May 10 at 2016 1:42 AM

CPT Aaron Kletzing — Tue, 10 May 2016 01:42:30 -0400

I do know that a Commander can give diagnostic PT tests as much as he/she wants.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 10 at 2016 2:13 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 10 May 2016 02:13:11 -0400

The Army Standard is 180... anything over that is exceeding the standard. Commanders can say what they want but they are walking into an IG storm.

Response by 1stSgt Eugene Harless made May 10 at 2016 3:28 AM

1stSgt Eugene Harless — Tue, 10 May 2016 03:28:18 -0400

A PFT is nothing more than a PT session. A unit leader could have you run the PFT every time you do physical training. As its been mentioned, you can only have it recorded "on the record" every so often ( in the USMC if was done Semi Annually). To be honest Ive been in units where taking a PFT would be considered an "easy session".

Response by SPC Kenneth Koerperich made May 10 at 2016 5:52 AM

SPC Kenneth Koerperich — Tue, 10 May 2016 05:52:19 -0400

As much as they want. In my day 9th Regt standard was 270 - 280, which was to get you into RIP easily if you drew the school. It also kept us in shape, since everything we did was "shoe-leather express" w/ all but the kitchen sink on our backs. In garrision we took APFT weekly. Remedial was @ 1500 daily including Sats if you failed, & you did it until you could pull 270 - 280

Good thing was, we was deployed so much that it became a mout point as we hardly ever tested after the second month in the unit. Hungry Lizard, 9th Regt Indoc, ABCA, Panama Rotation, Hungry Lizard, Panama Rotation, Op Just Cause, Desert Training @ Irwin, Post Support, JRTC, Hungry Lizard, OP4 for Sinai Units, Government Wpn Testing, Mout Site Testing, Hungry Lizard, then off to Korea. Barely 6 months total in 2 years on the Planet. So APFT was useless as we all were 'ROCK HARD" from the field.

So Enjoy your Standards....

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 10 at 2016 8:59 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 10 May 2016 08:59:48 -0400

Sometimes I wonder how do leaders come up with these crazy standards. Just be happy that you can get 100% APFT passing and 100% passing height weight. I dont see that standard lasting to long. So besides taking a APFT every month what other punishments will you get if you fail to score a 250?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 10 at 2016 10:08 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 10 May 2016 10:08:55 -0400

I guess this all depends on WHAT type of unit this is. My unit does an APFT every single month for our drill sergeant candidates. Our standard is only 70 points in each event. Sometimes 75 depending on the CSM's directives. Without it, the candidates can't go to drill sergeant school. We consider these APFT's diagnostic. We don't flag our people if they only get 60 points in each event. They simply don't go to school. If they continue to not meet our standard they go to another unit or are placed in the IRR. Even if they get 70's in each event they still take an APFT every single month until the report to drill sergeant school.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made May 10 at 2016 2:59 PM

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 10 May 2016 14:59:44 -0400

I was in a unit where the "standard" was 75% of the 18-21 year age group in all events and 6 pull ups, this was a National Guard unit. We were considered a scout unit, although it had Infantry and Cav Scouts working side by side within the unit. We took an APFT every month, regardless if you passed or failed unit standard. As long as the commander gives the go ahead and as long as his/her upper echelon want it to continue, it's lawful. The leadership can only enforce the APFT score for the "record" tests.