Can a Senior NCO ask me to use my POV?

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 11 Jan 2024 13:51:11 -0500

So, my Senior NCO asked me today if he could borrow my car so he can take a trip to visit family (about 2.5 hours away). He said his truck needs a transmission flush and doesn’t trust his truck will make it. He is leaving his truck for me to use. However, I insisted I don’t feel comfortable driving a pick up as I have only ever driven SUVs, but he keeps “pressuring” me to allow him to use my car. I feel like there’s maybe some abuse of power here, even if there isn’t I feel like this is wrong. Can someone shed light for me?

Response by SSgt Christophe Murphy made Jan 11 at 2024 1:56 PM

SSgt Christophe Murphy — Thu, 11 Jan 2024 13:56:56 -0500

It is definitely in poor taste but sure he can ask. You can certainly say no. You have absolutely no obligation to let anyone borrow your personal vehicle and if it becomes an issue you should take it to your next leader in line. . Personally I wouldn't lend it to anyone in your Command unless you have a close personal connection and even then that is a big maybe. But lending it to a boss is a no for me.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 11 at 2024 2:01 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 11 Jan 2024 14:01:30 -0500

Your SNCO can ask.....and you have every right to say NO. If, for whatever reason the SNCO (I am guessing it's your Platoon Sergeant) will NOT stop asking, you need to elevate this to your Platoon Leader. If it just needs a flush, then your SNCO can get it flushed and use his own damn truck for that drive.

Also, there is NO regulation stating you are required to allow the SNCO to use your vehicle.

Response by SFC Casey O'Mally made Jan 11 at 2024 2:44 PM

SFC Casey O'Mally — Thu, 11 Jan 2024 14:44:55 -0500

Yes, this is an abuse of power - at least as you have relayed it.

Asking ONCE is not technically forbidden, even if unwise. Pressuring is definitely forbidden.

Is there NO ONE between this SNCO and you? He should be asking a senior, peers, or at MOST one echelon down.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Jan 11 at 2024 3:18 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Thu, 11 Jan 2024 15:18:42 -0500

In my opinion he should have never asked. It is an imposition on you and can open up a bad can of worms.

Response by SSG Laurie Mullen made Jan 11 at 2024 4:45 PM

SSG Laurie Mullen — Thu, 11 Jan 2024 16:45:39 -0500

If he needs a vehicle that badly he can go rent one. I can't believe a Senior NCO would ask to borrow a vehicle from one of their troops. Follow the advice that has already been given to you.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 11 at 2024 7:58 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 11 Jan 2024 19:58:51 -0500

Thank you all for your responses, I told him “Respectfully SFC, I don’t feel comfortable with this “exchange” of vehicles”. Shockingly he was understanding, I’m just curious as to why he didn’t say that to begin with.

Response by SFC Birk Ellis made Jan 12 at 2024 7:58 AM

SFC Birk Ellis — Fri, 12 Jan 2024 07:58:12 -0500

Sure, he can ask, no it is not abuse of power. Abuse of power would be to demand the use of your POV and if denied, give you a 4856 counseling for it.
Personally, I would never, ever let anyone "borrow" my POV, I would not trust anyone to take care of it like I take care of it. You never know how you are going to get it back.
He is a SNCO, tell him that you are not comfortable in allowing someone to borrow your POV and suggest he rent a car, plenty of places outside of Campbell that has rentals.

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Jan 12 at 2024 9:28 AM

SGM Erik Marquez — Fri, 12 Jan 2024 09:28:05 -0500

Yes, prohibited ...
AR 600-20, para 4-14 (1), (2), (3), (4) apply.

And if I were to have seen that, educated the NCO, and they continued. The commander and I would work with the BN and BDE CSM's and Commanders to rid the Army of the NCO forever.

b. Soldiers of different grades must be cognizant that their interactions do not create an actual or clearly predictable perception of undue familiarity between an officer and an enlisted Soldier, or between an NCO and a junior enlisted Soldier. Examples of familiarity between Soldiers that may become “undue” can include repeated visits to bars, nightclubs, eating establishments, or homes between an officer and an enlisted Soldier, or an NCO and a junior enlisted Soldier, except for social gatherings, that involve an entire unit, office, or work section. All relationships between Soldiers of different grades are prohibited if they—
(1) Compromise, or appear to compromise, the integrity of supervisory authority or the chain of command.
(2) Cause actual or perceived partiality or unfairness.
(3) Involve, or appear to involve, the improper use of grade or rank or position for personal gain.
(4) Are, or are perceived to be, exploitative or coercive in nature.
(5) Create an actual or clearly predictable adverse impact on discipline, authority, morale, or the ability of the
command to accomplish its mission

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 12 at 2024 11:59 AM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 12 Jan 2024 11:59:31 -0500

You have no obligation to loan anyone your POV. But that doesn’t mean they can’t ask.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 12 at 2024 3:18 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 12 Jan 2024 15:18:13 -0500

Ethically, he should not be asking lower enlisted for anything for personal use. While this is so, perhaps he feels comfortable enough asking you as you are the type of person that would help someone out. the decision is yours to make.

Response by CWO3 Garry Standley made Jan 13 at 2024 1:39 PM

CWO3 Garry Standley — Sat, 13 Jan 2024 13:39:01 -0500

I retired in 1996, things are a little different. If I wanted to use a POV of a person of lesser rank, I would offer or insist on paying for the use. Using something of value from a lesser rank would or could be seen as using my rank for personal gain.

Response by Cpl Jeff Ruffing made Jan 14 at 2024 9:46 PM

Cpl Jeff Ruffing — Sun, 14 Jan 2024 21:46:10 -0500

Wow! Definitely wrong. My first question is, do you know your insurance? I have commercial insurance. I am not allowed to “loan” my vehicle to no one. I’m not allowed to have passengers either. Anyone who does drive my vehicle “must” be on my insurance. Which, surprise, surprise, cost me more. Know your insurance. If it happens to say the same thing you have a “polite” way of telling this superior to GFH.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 14 at 2024 11:09 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 14 Jan 2024 23:09:00 -0500

You don't have to let anyone use your POV who you don't want to use it. It's YOUR vehicle.

If that NCO was trying to pull rank on you to use YOUR vehicle, go tell whoever is above that NCO. That's really disturbing that they would try to take advantage of a junior enlisted soldier.

If they are having issues with their vehicle, they need to go rent a car until they can get theirs fixed or go ask a friend or someone. Or they don't take the trip.

Response by COL Dan Ruder made Jan 15 at 2024 2:25 AM

COL Dan Ruder — Mon, 15 Jan 2024 02:25:36 -0500

SPC Private RallyPoint Member, trust your initial instincts. There are several potential issues here and SGM Erik Marquez hit on some key prohibitions. For me, this is not about camaraderie and I feel there are clear practical and ethical considerations. Do not feel obligated, pressured, or influenced to comply because of the difference in rank. Doing personal favors (rather than job-related) for an NCO blurs the lines of professionalism and may easily be viewed by others as unprofessional behavior (a violation of a professional relationship between NCOs and junior soldiers). Lastly, never be put into a situation where a superior or senior can potentially become financially indebted to you (e.g. your vehicle breaks down or is in an accident while the NCO is using it) or you become indebted to a superior/senior (his/her vehicle breaks down or involved in an accident while you are using it). This is how I think about it and would discuss it with your NCO.

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 17 at 2024 4:28 AM

PO2 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 17 Jan 2024 04:28:27 -0500

Sure, he can ask, and you can say no. He has no right to your POV, SNCO or otherwise.

Response by SSG Elbert Thomas made Jan 21 at 2024 3:47 PM

SSG Elbert Thomas — Sun, 21 Jan 2024 15:47:05 -0500

Being a "Senior NCO" he can afford to rent a car and use his Military discount.

Response by SCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 22 at 2024 8:28 PM

SCPO Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 22 Jan 2024 20:28:25 -0500

It's so sad that this senior NCO does not understand right from wrong. I'm so sorry that you are having to endure being treated this way.

Response by COL Ralph Bryan Hanes made Feb 26 at 2024 9:14 PM

COL Ralph Bryan Hanes — Mon, 26 Feb 2024 21:14:39 -0500

I concur with SGM MARQUEZ. The SNCO is wrong on every level. 1. Abuse of subordinate by requesting a favor wherein the subordinate COULD reasonably feel that there could be retribution or quid pro quo no matter what the answer. 2. Hostile work environment. The SPC will be uncomfortable around the SNCO indefinitely no matter what happens. Should he report the SNCO, he risks the retribution of the NCO friends of his SNCO. It is unethical and just plain wrong to put any subordinate in such a position. 3. If SPC Padula felt comfortable in loaning the SUV to his SNCO, fraternazation and favoritism could be implied by others in the unit. There are units which are truly a band of brothers and such a request would not be necessary as the SPC or another NCO might have just offered better transportation, this does not appear to be the case. 5. If the pickup truck was ok for the SPC to drive while the SNCO was driving his, it was ok for the SNCO to make the trip. The SNCO has at least one too many stripes and/or rockers. The next higher NCO than him needs to either pay more attention to his JNCO's and mentor better. If mentoring does not work, do what NCO's do and handle it. I got where I got because of a series of professional NCO's (and officers) who cared enough to coach me and senior officers who cared enough to let them. When the NCO chain works so does everything else. When it does not, nothing else will either.