Can an NCO “smoke you” during a PT session?

2020-06-22T21:48:26-04:00

I already looked/read AR 600-20 and couldn’t find anything regarding the matter but was told previously by a different NCO that they are not allowed and wanted to back it up with the regulation.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 22 at 2020 9:49 PM

2020-06-22T21:49:20-04:00

It’s not smoking, it’s extra PT

Response by SGT Chris Stephens made Jun 22 at 2020 10:06 PM

2020-06-22T22:06:00-04:00

Yes, an NCO can smoke you during a PT session. Just take it and move on.

Response by WO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 22 at 2020 10:07 PM

2020-06-22T22:07:10-04:00

Here's a thought... just do it and be done with it, its good for you. Unless you are currently maxing both the apft and acft, you complaining about having to "do extra pt" is a pretty mute point.

I got the dog S... smoked out of me in the rain because I didn't memorize a song by the end of the week that the PSG told me to memorize. You know what I did, got smoked while a different guy played the song on repeat, memorized it, went back inside and sang it. I have now always carried that lesson of respecting the rank/orders of an individual.

Response by SGT Justin Brothen made Jun 22 at 2020 10:24 PM

2020-06-22T22:24:24-04:00

Smoke you? Lol shit your lucky you never did PT with Sgt monk. That guy brought PT to the max.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 22 at 2020 10:34 PM

2020-06-22T22:34:51-04:00

If it's during PT it's not a smoking, it's just PT. There's also nothing that says the leader has to do PT with the Soldiers, it is strongly encouraged, but not required by any Army publication.

Response by SSG Brian G. made Jun 22 at 2020 11:06 PM

2020-06-22T23:06:27-04:00

To whatever NCO 'previously' told you that they were not allowed? They are full of crap. There is no regulation that you will find that says they can or cannot. At PT it is extra PT.

An NCO or Officer can take that group, squad, platoon, company etc out and do PT pretty much as they see fit as long as the exercise itself falls within the PT guidelines. They can run a mile, five miles, seven miles.... do one push-up or smoke you until you fall to muscle exhaustion.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Jun 22 at 2020 11:44 PM

2020-06-22T23:44:58-04:00

Jesus wept, you can exceed standards, following the minimums in the service will get you killed or someone who has to cover for your failures. The is nothing in the regs concerning training to higher standards. Folks should be crying that an older, battle worn, dinged up NCO is beating their lil bodies and is still going.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 23 at 2020 1:12 AM

2020-06-23T01:12:53-04:00

I went through BCT at 39y/o so it was painful to watch the idiocy. I couldn't get it through all those kids' thick heads if we were a company of Prior Service Tabbed Rangers they would call it Exercise. For us they call it punishment. Regardless we are doing a million push ups, and what it's called is semantics.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 23 at 2020 1:29 AM

2020-06-23T01:29:25-04:00

I'm trying to remember...Was my Drill SERGEANT an NCO? did my Drill Sergeant smoke me during PT? I wish I could remember if this was the case so I could better answer you

Response by SGT Andrew West made Jun 23 at 2020 2:00 AM

2020-06-23T02:00:40-04:00

Yes they can its called high speed PT it has helped me alot from being weak you know that sorta thing!!

Response by 1SG Dennis Hicks made Jun 23 at 2020 8:22 AM

2020-06-23T08:22:19-04:00

When I red something like this it reminds me of something one of my old 1SG's said when he ran into something that would never be questioned. He said Jesus Wept a he just stared at us and did what needed to be done. I think it more likely that I went up through the ranks with others that begged to be smoked in cadence or in until formations. Being physically fit isn't just passing an APFT by the skin of your teeth its being physically fit across the board which in the end is good for you and your unit as nobody wants out of shape quitters in their ranks. Now as in everything there is always that one or two that take it above and beyond and enter hazing territory. Its the Job of the other NCO's to keep this from happening no matter the cost to themselves. You won't find any regulation that is detailed and Chrystal clear on this subject. I am guessing that being smoked is no longer a regular occurrence as it should be, Oh Brave new world :)

Response by SGT Ben Keen made Jun 23 at 2020 9:12 AM

2020-06-23T09:12:54-04:00

Oh young Solider, sometimes you just need to embrace the suck. Sometimes a little extra PT is never a bad thing. Whoever gave you that advice of extra PT is not allowed is completely wrong. PT is done "until complete". That means PT could last a full day if the PT instructor wanted to.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 23 at 2020 9:30 AM

2020-06-23T09:30:48-04:00

I’m seeing a lot of comments telling me to deal with it, therefore I would like to point out a few things;
1. I wasn’t the one who was “smoked”
2. This is about an E5 who just picked up and is using her rank for her own benefit

3. Said NCO was constantly hazing/picking on soldier back when she was a specialist.

4. If I wanted an unuseful answer I would’ve answered it myself. I’m not here to whine or complain just because you see E3 as my rank does not mean I’m a private fresh out of highschool and don’t know how life works. Remember you only see what I allow to show on my social media.

5. Thanks in advance for taking the time to respond All.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 23 at 2020 9:44 AM

2020-06-23T09:44:07-04:00

I guess in this case, I would ask you what you mean by "smoke you" during a pt session.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 23 at 2020 10:04 AM

2020-06-23T10:04:51-04:00

They can. I would hope they would also be following the NCO Creed while doing so. If you feel this new NCO is not living the Creed, take it up with the FLL and send it up the chain. Just be prepared that you might not have all the facts and there may be a very good reason for the additional attention your peer is getting.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 23 at 2020 11:17 AM

2020-06-23T11:17:04-04:00

AR 600-20 para 4-6 and para 4-19b.(3)(a)

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 23 at 2020 12:18 PM

2020-06-23T12:18:30-04:00

I guess "to be smoked" is punishment using PT as the weapon, otherwise known as corporal punishment. This is fundamentally illegal according to the UCMJ. Are there creative ways to circumvent this? Ask any NCO, and they'll probably say yes.
In some instances it's a "if not this, then this"; e.g. you screwed up, drop and give me twenty, and I'll forget the infraction, or take the hit with a counseling statement (which could mean loss of position on an OML, among other things).
Traditionally, "smoking" has been a game of NCOs and their troops; the only time I've seen an officer "smoke" another officer was never.
Good NCOs will drop with their subordinates. The days of the E7 making one of his/her Soldiers shine their boots at attention are over; the United States has the premier fighting force, both in personnel and war machine.
So, I guess the short answer is "it depends". Are they torturing you? Are they trying to help you? Will you be a better Soldier afterwards?