Can another NCO counsel another’s Soldier?

2018-05-30T08:30:54-04:00

Fellow leaders, quick question!
An incident happened where a soldier was counceled by an NCO whom wasn’t his Squad leader, did he deserve the counseling? Yes.
But can that NCO overstep his Squad leader and give the counseling, or does that NCO speak with his squad leader/fellow NCO and the squad leader counsel him? I’ve looked in FM 6-22 App. B and I didn’t see anything in there. So I’m assuming that there isn’t an issue with it. But you know what they say about assuming.
Thank you.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 30 at 2018 8:52 AM

2018-05-30T08:52:22-04:00

Here is how I see it. If the Squad Leader was not present at the time, and the counseling needed to happen stat, I would do the counseling. But, I would also turn around and locate the Squad Leader and present them with the case at hand and a copy of the counseling form. To me, this would fall under General Military Authority.

Response by SSG Robert Perrotto made May 30 at 2018 9:40 AM

2018-05-30T09:40:15-04:00

though it is usually common curtesy to take the issue to the Troops squad leader, there is no requirement that an NCO do that - is it bad form - absolutely. Is it illegal or wrong - not according to regulations.

Response by Cpl John DeConti made May 30 at 2018 5:38 PM

2018-05-30T17:38:27-04:00

No outsider would counsel my Marine, Especially one from outside of my platoon/unit... If there's an issue they need to speak to me (unless of course by counsel you mean on the spot correction with no paperwork. That is fine.)... If you are doing paperwork on them the direct chain of command should be the ones doing this not some outsider with their panties in a wad.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made May 30 at 2018 8:40 PM

2018-05-30T20:40:51-04:00

Was the NCO in his chain of command- if not then they stepped on his NCO's toe's. Doesn't ,mean it was wrong.

Response by MAJ Haris Balcinovic made May 31 at 2018 7:58 AM

2018-05-31T07:58:23-04:00

The whole concept of not counseling another Soldier because they "belong" to someone else is ludicrous. Do it respectfully/tactfully and yes if you know their immediate supervisor (team, squad, platoon leader) inform them. But not correcting/counseling Soldiers when you see something wrong leads to this whole concept of Soldiers saying "I don't work for you, you're not my boss, you're not my supervisor, I don't have to listen to you". It is rampant now-days. I even see NCOs getting mad for other NCOs talking to their Soldiers. And that is how we got to the point where NCOs don't even make simple on the spot correction, nonetheless counseling to teach Soldiers valuable lessons.
I'll leave you with this article as a closing remark. https://www.army.mil/article/129006/on_the_spot_corrections_its_our_duty

On-the-spot corrections, it's our duty

One day on my way into the Fort Leonard Wood Post Office I ran into a sergeant in the Army Combat Uniform wearing earrings. With out hesitation I proceeded to make an on-the-spot correction; the response I received from the sergeant was that she did ...

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made May 31 at 2018 11:22 AM

2018-05-31T11:22:05-04:00

Do 'spot corrections' on the spot. No paperwork required. Follow-up with the hosed-up kid's chain of command (at the appropriate-- meaning your-- level) if you desire to see the event documented in a formal counseling, etc. If the kid planted a bug so far up your skirt that you REALLY want to be the one to document the behavior, communicate the desire to your peer-- the kid's squad leader-- to allow you to come over to the parent command at a mutually agreed upon time and do a 'joint' counseling session. (That way, even if the other NCO does all the talking, the dirtbag knows that his CoC is aware of the behavior and endorses the counseling-- especially necessary if there are actionable corrective measures associated with the counseling.)

Now there can be a LOT of variations on this... The above situation is the most common when you are out-and-about and happen to see someone who is hosed-up or acting in an unprofessional manner.

It gets more 'acceptable' for an other-than-direct-CoC person to counsel a member if that person is TAD to, visiting, or regularly interacts with a different command.

Random example-- if a person is going to physical therapy regularly and the staff at the MTF where he gets his therapy routinely has problems with him-- not showing up, showing up late, being disrespectful, being generally unsat, etc.-- then it would be appropriate for the staff at the MTF to counsel the individual on his actions at the facility AND forward a copy of that documentation to the dirtbag's chain of command for inclusion into his personnel file. (In this type of case, it would be highly unlikely that the MTF staff would NOT have contacted the person's CoC before going to that step, but it is possible.) Similarly if a person was TAD to a school and the staff at the schoolhouse had problems with his behavior or performance, I would expect the same type of outcome as in the previous example.

It would be a little weird for an NCO to just walk around the PX with a pocket full of blank counseling chits just looking for Soldiers to smash, but I can imagine a lot of sets of circumstances under which a cross-CoC counseling would be appropriate.

Response by Cpl Phillip Brame made May 31 at 2018 11:36 PM

2018-05-31T23:36:12-04:00

What in the hell is going on today in the US Army, where are all of the NCO’s? In order for there to be good order and discipline an NCO must be able to make on the spot corrections at anytime and anywhere. A counseling statement or verbal counseling is part of the NCO arsenal to correct any soldier at anytime. NCO’s get your shit together or give up the stripes.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 1 at 2018 1:44 AM

2018-06-01T01:44:55-04:00

if its verbal it well in the right, if its an actual paperwork counceling the squad lead should be the one to give it out as a courtesy.

Response by SSG Paul Headlee made Mar 7 at 2021 8:45 PM

2021-03-07T20:45:27-05:00

We don't look the other way.