Can my commander force me to shave my mustache because he doesn't like it, even if it fits the regs?

2020-05-15T03:49:05-04:00

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made May 15 at 2020 5:00 AM

2020-05-15T05:00:56-04:00

That depends if you're realistically going to fight an article 15 for "failure to obey a lawful order" for something as trivial as a moustache. Pick your battles wisely.

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made May 15 at 2020 5:22 AM

2020-05-15T05:22:25-04:00

If you are not properly grooming your facial hair he can have you shave it off.

Response by 1SG Dennis Hicks made May 15 at 2020 6:39 AM

2020-05-15T06:39:41-04:00

Well you are in the Infantry and the 70's Porn stache look is big no-no these days. My COC used to come out and stare at facial hair looking for just one hair that went beyond the that pencil thin line above my lip or to to the left or right sectors of fire. I was always asked if I wanted to just shave it off or have my squad leader remove the offending hair with a tweezer. I shave it down to look like that whack job Gefreiter (lance corporal) in the Bavarian army during WW1 or Charlie Chaplan . That did not go over well, so in the best interest of making SP/4 I shaved it all off. Most regulations have some room for interpretation and you have to ask yourself do you want to be that guy of avid the spotlight. Being that guy is not good for promotion, detail selection or additional close supervision. Its really all about "Is it worth some facial hair to make life more difficult" When you become a CSM you can sport you facial hair, all gray like a champion.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 15 at 2020 6:50 AM

2020-05-15T06:50:38-04:00

No. If you are in regs, then you are fine. I strongly suggest you know exactly what the regs are without a doubt in your mind, possibly have a print out with you. I see the other people who responded are just telling you to go with the flow, but that voids the regulation allowing you to. Keep in mind that they may try to get you on something else, but if you are doing the right thing at the right time, you'll be fine. I hate that people in charge retaliate with bullying when people dont do what the want based off of personal opinions, but it happens none the less.

Tldr: know the reg and keep it within Army guidance.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 15 at 2020 7:43 AM

2020-05-15T07:43:09-04:00

I had a mustache for years while in the Service. I would get comments like it does not look professional (Frankly this is a BS response as there is not defined standard to what "Look Professional" means and is usually pulled out when they don't know what the reg really says) or "I don't Believe" MPs should have facial hair. I knew the regs and was soon left alone when I would not cower to bullying. Most people in the Army are going off what they "Grew up" with or what they were told they don't take the time to actually do the reading. I walk around now a days and just shake my head at all the uniform violations glad I'm retired because I would not have enough time in the day to walk from my office to the food court if I had to correct everyone of them.

Bottom Line know the reg. have it saved on your phone and be respectful when showing your CO is 8up.

Response by SSgt Christophe Murphy made May 15 at 2020 9:18 AM

2020-05-15T09:18:46-04:00

If you are within regs you have that in your favor but like others have warned you need to be 100% sure you are within regs. I've seen a lot of folks try to fight this and realize they misinterpreted the grooming standard and that they were in the wrong. If a mustache is the hill you want to die on and you are within regs you can fight it but just be sure you are right and willing to go through this because it will get a lot of attention and not the good kind.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made May 15 at 2020 9:27 AM

2020-05-15T09:27:11-04:00

Thank you to everybody and the awesome info

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made May 15 at 2020 9:33 AM

2020-05-15T09:33:55-04:00

The regulation is only a starting point. If the commander deems you can't have a mustache, then you cant have a mustache. This is would have to be due to some extenuating circumstances besides the commander does not like the mustache.

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made May 15 at 2020 9:46 AM

2020-05-15T09:46:33-04:00

No, but he or she can make your life miserable until you do. Take a look around your unit. If facial hair is the exception across all ranks, that’s a hint as to the unit norms.

Response by PO1 William "Chip" Nagel made May 15 at 2020 11:08 AM

2020-05-15T11:08:13-04:00

SPC Private RallyPoint Member Don't Know. I Do Know I've had a Mustache Most of Life. Shaved it for Boot Camp and Occasionally for S**ts and Grins but always Grow it Back.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made May 15 at 2020 11:54 AM

2020-05-15T11:54:39-04:00

Please post a picture. Let's see if it's in regs or not...

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made May 15 at 2020 1:03 PM

2020-05-15T13:03:56-04:00

It's 2020...not 1920..lose the 'stache

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 15 at 2020 1:07 PM

2020-05-15T13:07:01-04:00

Trick question! No one's mustache can look professional and fit in the regs at the same time

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 15 at 2020 2:21 PM

2020-05-15T14:21:16-04:00

Don’t be that guy

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 15 at 2020 5:11 PM

2020-05-15T17:11:06-04:00

AR 670-1 3-1 .a

“ It is the responsibility of commanders to ensure that military personnel under their command present a neat and soldierly appearance.”

I’d err on the side of the commander on this one due to the general authority granted to them by the army to maintain order and discipline.

#commander’sdiscretion

Response by PV2 Private RallyPoint Member made May 15 at 2020 11:39 PM

2020-05-15T23:39:44-04:00

If it's not too long u just have to know what to do or what to say. But the stupidest thing in the military the high-ranking can be abusive.

Response by Cadet 2LT Private RallyPoint Member made May 16 at 2020 4:37 AM

2020-05-16T04:37:34-04:00

Commander can add to, not take away

Response by SPC Allen Werth made Sep 7 at 2021 5:21 PM

2021-09-07T17:21:26-04:00

It may not be within his rights but do you real want to go to war with you CO over that?

Response by SPC Christopher Perrien made Sep 7 at 2021 6:00 PM

2021-09-07T18:00:38-04:00

No in regs, but I suggest you do it as a dodge, and wait for that "trucker" to hang himself/herself screw up on regs with others or you or him/her move on. Watch this "trucker" they don't like you, or your mustache may be non-reg by a hair in their eyes, Dodge this simple problem.

Response by CPL Adam Schoenwald made Sep 8 at 2021 11:05 AM

2021-09-08T11:05:53-04:00

While I agree with the fact that if it fits Regs, and you really want to fight that battle, you better have the regs on hand and your stash dress right dress because a single hair out of regs will get you nailed. We were allowed mustaches during deployment, but back on base, clean shaven was the norm unit wide. Our Commander liked clean shaven soldiers if you had stubble you were in the front leaning rest explaining why you don't know how to shave properly. I would suggest that until you are at a rank that you don't have to be scrutinized over a 'stash, keep it clean.

Response by MSgt Steve Sweeney made Sep 8 at 2021 12:39 PM

2021-09-08T12:39:16-04:00

Yep, if he or she deems it prejudicial to good order and discipline. Shave your mustache hairs!

https://youtu.be/_nEFLKpknM4

Generation Kill - Moustache Hair

One of my fav generation kill scenes

Response by CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 8 at 2021 12:54 PM

2021-09-08T12:54:41-04:00

Yes. (and no). You get to choose your battles, but not the hill you die on. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQr9isjLicA

Sixta and the grooming standard

I believe it always ought-ta be there for emNote: I delete comments about the real life Sixta and what he did. That's not the point of this vid and it's alre...

Response by SrA John Monette made Sep 8 at 2021 1:04 PM

2021-09-08T13:04:04-04:00

Don't shave it and let us know what happens.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 8 at 2021 2:56 PM

2021-09-08T14:56:50-04:00

Too many of the answers here sum up to “regulations aren’t really regulations because commanders can be petty”

We should do better than that.

Response by LTC Richard Wasserman made Sep 8 at 2021 5:36 PM

2021-09-08T17:36:02-04:00

No, But he might not be nice to you. I had the same issue with an 0-6. I was the only Staff Officer without my picture on the wall. But I was assigned, so I wasn't in his rating chain.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 8 at 2021 7:19 PM

2021-09-08T19:19:28-04:00

Ok, first thing you should consider is your boat big enough to handle the waves from pissing off your chain of command. Remember **it runs down hill so not only will your Commander be pissed but so will everyone between them and you. The Commander is authorized, even if you do meet standards, to make you shave if he believes your ‘stache is unkempt, is a safety concern or does not give a professional appearance. Thems the breaks. You want to become a NCO, conform or get out. As a member of the Army means leaving your personality for the weekends. In my career, I have had my share of …growing pains or chaffing by Commanders but if you want to be seen in the best light of the promotion mill, go with the flow.

Response by SPC Edward Abney made Nov 23 at 2021 7:32 PM

2021-11-23T19:32:20-05:00

SPC Thomas. Are you so attached to your mustache that you are willing to piss off your Commanding Officer and earn his enmity? Take some advice from an old soldier. Shave it off, you can always grow another one.

Response by SGT Mustafa Stokely made Nov 23 at 2021 9:04 PM

2021-11-23T21:04:50-05:00

While everyone else here has covered the basics regarding your question, I would add: Whenever you can, try and stay out of the way of your "commander." (Co Cdr? Bn Cdr?) In other words, avoid being a road-kill, unless you cannot help it. Let Karma do the rest.

I was once a young Private in the cross-hairs of my 1SG and Co Cdr, and found myself assigned to extra CQ and guard duties. Unbeknownst to me, I was apparently an "essential" person for the S2/S3 sections of my battalion, and was on a list to be exempt from CQ and guard duties. The 1SG thought he was being clever when he assigned me to a Sunday night CQ (runner) duty, followed by a Monday night CQ (runner) duty.

Well, Monday morning I was not at the Bn HQ and someone was sent over to fetch me, as we had much to do. So, I got no sleep that day, though I was told by the S3 (a major) and S3 NCOIC (a Master Sergeant) not to worry about the CQ (runner) duty for Monday night, and that I would also receive an additional day-off, the following week. I was told that I would not be placed on future CQ and/or guard duties ever again.

Well, the 1SG apparently decided to ignore the change, and called to scream at me, when I did not show up for the CQ (runner) duty Monday night. Needless to say, I was up that night too. Then in the morning, the S3 happened to drop by the company hq, and noticed me sitting at the CQ desk. He went white as a sheet, and said to me, "Didn't I tell you that you were relieved from any further duties?!" I told him that the 1SG had gotten angry with me and that he ordered me to be there, just the same. He told me that they needed me that day as well, but that he would make sure that I was never abused in this way again.

It was around this time that the Co Cdr and 1SG walked out of their offices, on their way to morning formation, and noticed the S3 talking to me. It was the most panicked I remember seeing the 1SG, as the S3 pointed his finger at the two of them, growling, "You two clowns! In my office, right after formation!" When the Co Cdr and 1SG showed up for their "meeting," the S3 was also joined by the Bn XO and Bn SGM. Even though the door was closed, you could hear their voices thunder across the Bn HQ building. When the Co Cdr and the 1SG walked out of the S3 office, they looked as though they had gone through combat! From this point on, both the Co Cdr and the 1SG treated me as if I was a ghost, ignoring my presence for the most part, and I was never put on a duty roster ever again, until the next major exercise. (Apparently, Karma helps even young Privates!) :D