Can my NCO dictate or limit my energy drink intake?

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 11 Mar 2021 18:49:27 -0500

My NCO told me he noticed I drink a lot of energy drinks and told me I’m only allowed two a day. Can they dictate my diet? I’ve been told by two other NCO’s that he/she can and another saying he can’t. Also a reference to this would be appreciated.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 11 at 2021 7:00 PM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 11 Mar 2021 19:00:18 -0500

No, they cannot say what you can and cannot put into your body. It's a legal (federally) substance. They can recommend and explain the reasons/provide the information to back their recommendation. If they say you can't drink em and then you do and they counsel you - USE SECTION 3 TO EXPLAIN YOUR SIDE. If they recommend Art 15, and the CO actually goes on with it - request Trial and watch JAG throw that out faster than PVTs getting zonked.
Now, if a Dietician/Dr/PA/Nutritionist Officer writes a profile saying you can only have 2/day, that's a different story.
Should you drink that much, no, but I'm sure you know the issues with lots of energy drinks (I myself and just quit 2 Monsters/day)

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Mar 11 at 2021 7:33 PM

SGM Erik Marquez — Thu, 11 Mar 2021 19:33:06 -0500

The NCO can tell you any thing, they SHOULD tell you only what is duty related which may include information they feel is important, to include helpful guidance that is not enforceable with any authority.
While I might have had a fellow soldier who had significant kidney stones from what was likely too much soda and energy drinks share the stories of his painful passing of said stones multiple times. And tasked that junior SM to research (on company time) and present a 15 min briefing (on company time) on the known effects energy drink use has on the human body, and had a first line supervisor advise, counsel and suggest a better way in writing (on company time) as well as explain that medical conditions brought up from an unhealthy diet can have significant short term effects on his time in the army and longer term effects on over all health and wellness.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 11 at 2021 9:07 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 11 Mar 2021 21:07:06 -0500

Yes, while on duty you're government property and superiors can therefore restrict what goes into your body. That doesn't mean it should be abused or the bounds overstepped. There should be a reason why, not just "I'm your NCO do as I say."

When you're off duty and on your own time then they do not have much ground for that argument though

When we were deployed there was a guy in my unit who wouldn't eat and lost massive amounts of weight to try and go home to get out of the deployment. Mind you I'm national guard. They had an NCO sit with him at every meal to ensure that he got enough nourishment to stay healthy. Sounds brutal but it was for his own good

Response by SFC Melvin Brandenburg made Mar 11 at 2021 10:16 PM

SFC Melvin Brandenburg — Thu, 11 Mar 2021 22:16:14 -0500

Yes. Even to 0

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 11 at 2021 10:41 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 11 Mar 2021 22:41:18 -0500

In life, when someone gives you oddly specific feedback or advice, you should probably just accept it.

Response by MSgt Steven Holt, NRP, CCEMT-P made Mar 11 at 2021 10:43 PM

MSgt Steven Holt, NRP, CCEMT-P — Thu, 11 Mar 2021 22:43:13 -0500

Can your NCO dictate your diet (or pretty much any other legal activity) while on duty? Sure can. Can they legally ENFORCE said diet? Maybe, maybe not. Is the order illegal, immoral, or unethical? If the order passes that test, you may be in for a difficult time. Additionally, IF they can prove the excess consumption of energy drinks (or candy bars, or cigarettes, or potato chips, or......) is affecting your duty performance, I'd say they have pretty solid ground from which to fight. For example, if the excess caffeine is making you "jittery" when a task calls for a steady hand, or your behavior is more aggressive (similar to 'roid rage') after consumption, s/he may have all the evidence they need to limit your consumption during duty hours.

Here's a 'real word' case for you to consider: In the mid-2000's, I had a bright young Airman who decided to use Hydroxycut to help lose weight (this was before they changed the formula to make it safer to use). He became aggressive with violent outbursts in the duty section. I, as his immediate supervisor, and the unit First Sergeant suggested the Unit Commander direct him to immediately seek medical evaluation and to stop taking the Hydroxycut immediately. Keep in mind, Hydroxycut was (and still is) legal for use. The CO agreed and subsequently issued written orders to that effect. Incidents of substandard performance as well as the directive to stop using the substance were documented in his file. He chose to ignore us. Flash forward a few weeks to him sitting in a jail cell with substantiated charges of domestic violence. The order to stop using figured quite prominently in the package to have him administratively discharged. THIS is why if your NCO can prove adverse duty performance, you should do yourself a favor and curtail usage as best you can.

Friendly advice from a healthcare provider...the less of those cardiac muscle killers you consume, the better off you'll be in the long run. Read and heed the link SFC Stephen H. posted.

Response by SPC Cathy Goessman made Mar 11 at 2021 11:13 PM

SPC Cathy Goessman — Thu, 11 Mar 2021 23:13:34 -0500

We had a soldier with constant kidney stones. He was known to be a heavy energy drink consumer prior to the stones starting. He was on constant narcotics for the pain and peeing into a screen to catch the stones. Not a fate I'd wish on anyone. No, your NCO cannot dictate your diet. In this case though I'd say he's trying to look out for you. Just maybe not going about it the best way. "Because I said so" doesn't work well on kids or soldiers.

Response by SFC Casey O'Mally made Mar 12 at 2021 12:47 AM

SFC Casey O'Mally — Fri, 12 Mar 2021 00:47:06 -0500

BLUF: AR 600-20 gives your chain of command and your NCO support channel a lot of authority to tell you what you can an cannot do.

AR 600-20
Para 2-1 b.
Commanders are responsible for everything their command does or fails to do. However, commanders subdivide responsibility and authority and assign portions of both to various subordinate commanders and staff members. In this way, a proper degree of responsibility becomes inherent in each command echelon. Commanders delegate sufficient authority to Soldiers in the chain of command to accomplish their assigned duties, and commanders may hold these Soldiers responsible for their actions. Commanders who assign responsibility and authority to their subordinates still retain the overall responsibility for the actions of their commands.

Para 2-19 a. (NCO Support Channel Responsibilities)
(6) Caring for individual Soldiers and their Families both on and off-duty.

Para 2-19 c. (NCO Disciplinary policies)
(3) As enlisted leaders of Soldiers, NCOs are essential to furthering the efficiency of the company, battery, or troop. This function includes preventing incidents that make it necessary to resort to trial by courts-martial or the imposition of nonjudicial punishment. Thus, NCOs are assistants to commanders in administering minor nonpunitive corrective actions as found in AR 27–10 and Part V of the MCM. "Nonpunitive measures" are not "nonjudicial pun-ishment."
(4) In taking corrective action with regard to subordinates, NCOs will be guided by and observe the principles listed in chapter 4.

Para 4-1 c.
Commanders and other leaders will maintain discipline according to the policies of this chapter, applicable laws and regulations, and the orders of seniors.

Para 5-4 (Command aspects of medical readiness and medical care)
Commanders at all levels are responsible and accountable for the health of their command in accordance with AR 40–5 and DA Pam 40–11.

(Please remember that in the case of AR 600-20, "Commanders at all levels" means the entire chain of Command)

Roles of the commander with respect to medical readiness and medical care include the following—
a. Preventive medicine. Ensure that the health of all personnel in their command is sustained and protected in all military activities through aggressive implementation of preventive medicine activities. Command Preventive Medicine Program responsibilities include—
(2) Hazard control.
(5) Health risk and hazard communication.
c. Risk management. Minimize health risks using Army composite risk management principles.

And finally,

Para 4-2
All personnel in the Army are required to strictly obey and promptly execute the legal orders of their lawful seniors.

Is it a lawful order? Is it illegal, immoral, or unethical? If it is NOT, then you MUST obey - strictly and promptly! If it IS an unlawful order, the onus is on YOU, not your NCO, to show how or why the order is unlawful.

Your NCOs have not only the authority, but the RESPONSIBILITY to ensure your health. They have a SPECIFIED REQUIREMENT to minimize health risks. For where *I* stand, yes, they can limit your energy drink intake.

And, lo and behold, when I was in Iraq, there were general orders regarding supplements, energy drinks, and other known hazards to health that were otherwise legal.

Response by SSG Robert Perrotto made Mar 12 at 2021 3:48 AM

SSG Robert Perrotto — Fri, 12 Mar 2021 03:48:36 -0500

Honest Truth, they can. If you are overweight, they send you to a dietician to plan out a dietary plan f action, failure to comply, which results in additional weight gain, would be grounds for separation. A smoker who continually underperforms during cardio vascular activities, can have their smoking habit limited during duty hours as it effects mission readiness and unit performance.

Response by SFC Ralph E Kelley made Mar 12 at 2021 7:20 AM

SFC Ralph E Kelley — Fri, 12 Mar 2021 07:20:55 -0500

Fastest way to make PFC is to be a SPC who disregards his NCO's orders.

Response by SSgt Christophe Murphy made Mar 12 at 2021 10:34 AM

SSgt Christophe Murphy — Fri, 12 Mar 2021 10:34:24 -0500

Energy drinks can be a major issue and have been in the past. Especially those jumbo sized monsters that look like fuel cans. They will dehydrate you like nothing else, filled to the brim with sugar and have been the cause of more heart issues and kidney stones than anything I witnessed while in the Military. Your leadership can't ban you from drinking them unless they are creating a situation where your health and/performance is becoming an issue.

Your NCO may just be hassling you because they don't like you. But there may be a bigger cause to this.

Response by PO1 Sanford Snyder made Mar 12 at 2021 11:34 AM

PO1 Sanford Snyder — Fri, 12 Mar 2021 11:34:23 -0500

Caffeine is bad enough, but at least it's readily available. How does that work when you have troops who need the extra stims in energy drinks to maintain a certain level? My experience is shipboard, locked in a steal box for months, Indian Ocean cruises were 3 or more months with no land fall. Supply systems are good, but... what happens when they fail or fall behind? Can we count on people who rely on stims like this to carry the load when it counts? If you all recall, when you enlisted you could not have a pre-existing condition that required medication, why? one reason was if situations dictated separation from supply lines then you could be SOL. Force readiness, in the worst conditions. Which is more important, maintaining an artificial level of performance, or force readiness. IMHO. (FYI 3 years as Navy Recruiter).

Response by Cpl Benjamin Long made Mar 12 at 2021 12:34 PM

Cpl Benjamin Long — Fri, 12 Mar 2021 12:34:19 -0500

If you have a dispute with an NCO take it up with the 1st Sgt...

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 12 at 2021 1:52 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 12 Mar 2021 13:52:46 -0500

I'm just gonna say this from a Preventive Medicine aspect. I would recommend you cease all energy drink consumption if you do NOT want to get kidney stones. Trust me on this. I've had one, and only one. And it was half the size of a dime. It is a pain I wish upon no one. That one kidney stone took me out of the fight for two weeks.

Response by Sgt Dale Briggs made Mar 12 at 2021 5:05 PM

Sgt Dale Briggs — Fri, 12 Mar 2021 17:05:22 -0500

Is the two limit in writing? But yes these energy drinks raise blood pressure, they’re filled with caffeine but also some ingredients like Guyana and green tea that also raise BP. They probably also might help promote dehydration, sounds healthy but for some not, they interfere with sleep. Just depends if it’s an official policy or just a personal preference by your NCO. He can only enforce Army standards, if it’s not a written a policy you can do as you please.

Response by Sgt Dale Briggs made Mar 12 at 2021 5:05 PM

Sgt Dale Briggs — Fri, 12 Mar 2021 17:05:47 -0500

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 15 at 2021 6:45 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 15 Mar 2021 18:45:21 -0400

If you're not flagged for ABCP - then no. If you were enrolled in ABCP because you were flagged for being overweight - yes.

They can tell you it's a bad idea to drink a ton of energy drinks (as it is) but they can't stop you from doing it really. I've had soldiers who drank a lot of energy drinks. I told them how bad it is and what it could do to them. But I couldn't stop them. Nor would I try to. They're adults.

Does any NCO stop their soldiers from smoking? We know that's extremely bad for people - but it's not illegal. So they can't make you stop. Alcohol isn't really good for anyone especially when it's not in moderation. The only way they could stop that is if it became excessive to the point it impacts your work.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 15 at 2021 9:17 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 15 Mar 2021 21:17:56 -0400

SFC Casey O'Mally The fact that so many people are saying "An NCO can't do that" is why our military is turning into a joke. No discipline anymore.

You see that video of the 10th mountain troops do a live fire shoot house and they are flagging the hell out of each other the whole time and the NCO's and officers watching from the catwalk are just letting it happen?

This is what happens when NCO's can't discipline soldiers anymore

https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-army/2021/02/23/shoot-house-video-is-full-of-flagging-10th-mountain-senior-enlisted-vows-problems-will-get-fixed/

Shoot-house video is full of ‘flagging’; 10th Mountain senior enlisted vows problems will ‘get...

The 10th Mountain Division rebuked a viral video showing troops from the unit flagrantly pointing weapons at one another during live-fire room clearance training.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 16 at 2021 1:45 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 16 Mar 2021 01:45:12 -0400

First question.

Why do you need to drink these energy drinks?

Response by SFC David Johnson made Mar 8 at 2022 6:23 PM

SFC David Johnson — Tue, 08 Mar 2022 18:23:30 -0500

Consider yourself lucky to have an NCO that actually pays attention to his soldiers and is willing to try to intervene when he sees a possible in health situation. Although his method is flawed, his intentions are admirable

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 8 at 2022 6:32 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 08 Mar 2022 18:32:59 -0500

SGM Marquez’s comments are honestly the best way to approach the situation. I had a Soldier similar to this situation as a company medic and I just talked them into coming to Sickcall and the P.A. put in a referral to nutrition and internal medicine. The guy was on the line for medical discharge cause he passed out so frequently from over doing Monsters and dip during rotations at JRTC.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 8 at 2022 6:47 PM

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 08 Mar 2022 18:47:16 -0500

The dumbest thing ever. Honestly I like him to site the regulation that is his basis for this.

Response by SFC Francisco Rosario made Mar 8 at 2022 6:54 PM

SFC Francisco Rosario — Tue, 08 Mar 2022 18:54:48 -0500

This is good looking out for the health of the troop/troops under the change of said NCO. It shows that the NCO cares, however it is overreaching on the NCO’ part. Beyond the scope of authority. I had a similar situation when I was getting ready to deploy to Iraq. My team sgt was told by a medical authority to not drink them anymore due to concerns about his heart rate. He didn’t listen, the team chief had the authority to impart UCMJ actions.

As long the Soldier is not under some type of medical treatment. The NCO can only advise and recommend. Not authorized to give a lawful order.