Can you take a subordinate’s personal property?

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 19 Mar 2019 14:01:39 -0400

I work in a hospital and the charge nurse threatened to take a corpsman’s phone because she saw it. He wasn’t even using it.

Our hospital’s policy is cell phones have to be on silent or on vibrate that’s it.

Response by Cpl Benjamin Long made Mar 19 at 2019 2:16 PM

Cpl Benjamin Long — Tue, 19 Mar 2019 14:16:22 -0400

No, that is theft. Only the commanding officer, Military police, or law enforcement may seize property, or when executing a warrant.

Restriction on the authority to undertake search and seizures
Before looking into the punishment for removing, destroying or disposing a property to prevent its seizure, it is important to see if the act of searching and seizing itself was lawful.
A commanding officer has extraordinary responsibilities and his powers are broader than those vested in an officer with equal characteristics under a civilian government. He has been given implicit powers to authorize inspections and searches on the men under his command and to seize property. This power is considered indispensable to maintaining discipline and order. Still, there is a provision for an unlawful search, which restricts his powers.
Paragraph 152 of the Manual for Court Martial gives specifications for a 'lawful' search.
It says that a search is lawful when it is conducted:
By the power is vested in a person via a court issued warrant.
In connection with a lawful apprehension (arrest).
In circumstances where immediate action is necessary to prevent the removal, destruction or disposal of criminal goods.
When the accused has given his consent.
By instructions of the commanding officer.
Searching the body of a service member is authorized only if the person has been apprehended or if it is felt that the accused has on his person, property of a criminal nature and to prevent its disposal, destruction or removal. For searches and seizures to be lawful, they have to be conducted 'according to military custom'.
If these specifications are not satisfied, and if there was an attempt to search and seize or if the property of the person was seized and if the person resisted the search or seizure, it may be possible to get an acquittal. Here is an example, where the accused did not prevent the authorized person from searching and seizing.
In United States Vs Brown, the Court of Military Appeal ignored the maxim of 'search conducted according to military custom' and held a search unlawful. In that case, a commanding officer had ordered the apprehension and search of 10 service members, including the main accused, who were suspected of using narcotics. A subsequent search of the accused found two bottles of heroin. The Court of Military Appeals found that the search was unlawful. So the bottles of heroin could not be admitted as evidence.

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Mar 19 at 2019 2:18 PM

CSM Darieus ZaGara — Tue, 19 Mar 2019 14:18:28 -0400

No-one should take any item that is otherwise covered by a policy. However, should the service member violate the policy, the item can be retained. The wiser thing would be to have the individual Stowe it away if a policy is violated to avoids the risk of damage or other allegation. Thank you for your service.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 19 at 2019 2:33 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 19 Mar 2019 14:33:56 -0400

Unless that person is violating policy or HIPPA, using it in a manner that is a security risk, then I can see no reason/justification why the Charge Nurge could/should/would take that phone. If they are still adamant about taking it, then they can sign a Hand Receipt.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 19 at 2019 3:33 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 19 Mar 2019 15:33:56 -0400

No, the nurse, whether she's an officer or not, does not have the authority to confiscate personal property. There are strict rules regarding who can confiscate property and under what conditions.

Response by SFC Alvin Miller made Mar 20 at 2019 6:46 AM

SFC Alvin Miller — Wed, 20 Mar 2019 06:46:50 -0400

IF IT IS ACCORDANCE TO HOSPITAL SOP, I DO BELIVE THE CHARGE NURSE WOULD BE OUT OF LINE. AND IF SHE DID TAKE IT DISCUSS IT WIT THE HEAD NURSE AND ADVISE HER/HIM WHAT HAS TAKEN PLACE. FOR FINAL ACTIONS.

Response by SFC Alvin Miller made Mar 21 at 2019 7:10 AM

SFC Alvin Miller — Thu, 21 Mar 2019 07:10:27 -0400

Response by Sgt Dale Briggs made Apr 5 at 2020 12:05 PM

Sgt Dale Briggs — Sun, 05 Apr 2020 12:05:12 -0400

It’s personal property if the guys following the rules the Nurse is then breaking the rules and should be reported for taking property that doesn’t belong to him. That’s ridiculously petty people need to get a life.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 5 at 2020 10:53 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 05 Apr 2020 22:53:18 -0400

I'll bet there is more to the story and the charge nurse said something like, "I don't want to see any cell phones," then somebody decided to put her to the test. Yes, the phone was on silent and he was not talking into it, but the nurse said something because she saw it, and she saw it because the corpsman was checking a text. Let me guess, this happened during the shift change meeting?

Personal property should never be confiscated by a superior, but if told by the charge nurse to leave the cell phone alone while providing patient care, it better damn well be left alone. Yes, the charge nurse is exactly that, in charge, even if a civilian. Yes, I could see a charge nurse ordering a medic to put the cell phone away in a locker when working on the floor.

I'm a former enlisted Navy Corpsman and flirted with trouble too, but if I were an investigating officer of such an incident today, I would empathize with the charge nurse. The first thing I would ask her is why she took the cell phone in the first place and did she later return it later? If she told me that the corpsman/medic was bringing personal business to work and being distracted from duties because of the cell phone, she isn't the one who is going to be getting in trouble. Oh, she might get a very minor slap on the wrist, but I would be coming after the corpsman/medic next. The commanding officer is going to decide who gets the door-prize in the end.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 5 at 2020 11:23 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 05 Apr 2020 23:23:19 -0400

Negative, you cannot confiscate property from a patient. Contact his chain of command.

Response by SPC John Decker made Apr 6 at 2020 7:11 AM

SPC John Decker — Mon, 06 Apr 2020 07:11:46 -0400

When I was in, cell-phones did not exist. That being said, there were a very specific items, not part of the uniform, that we were allowed to carry. None of which might allow for a distraction, while on duty.

Response by Cpl Phillip Brame made Apr 6 at 2020 4:03 PM

Cpl Phillip Brame — Mon, 06 Apr 2020 16:03:54 -0400

Please you are in the Army of course she could take it from the SOLDIER. I sometimes think that we forget where we are and what we are.

Response by Cpl Rc Layne made Apr 8 at 2020 1:37 AM

Cpl Rc Layne — Wed, 08 Apr 2020 01:37:41 -0400

Decorum prevents my opinion being stated.