Career E-4. and how to prevent becoming one?

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 19 Aug 2015 00:45:53 -0400

Why are there so many spc E-4 with 6+ years of service. But there are many underqaulifed and unskilled Sgt E-5 with just the minimum requirements to get promoted. I don't want to become a career E-4

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 19 at 2015 12:47 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 19 Aug 2015 00:47:39 -0400

Education and dedication.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 19 at 2015 12:58 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 19 Aug 2015 00:58:03 -0400

If you have the mind and the skill set to accomplish the task at hand the stripes will soon follow suit. Focus on being the best you can be at your current duty position and you will be awarded a chance to acheive the next level. The Army is meant to give soldiers the chance to be successful, its on you to take that chance. Also you won't be an career Spc thanks to there being a cap for how many years you are authorized in the Army as an E4. Keep your chin up and and charlie mike.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 19 at 2015 1:20 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 19 Aug 2015 01:20:20 -0400

E-4's roll in packs because they have grown to click with each other. After a while they get comfortable with the fact that they aren't the new guys and they a stronger in groups; hence the E4 mafia. It takes a strong willed person to break from that mold to go to a Soldier of the month board. Then to a promotion board. It may seem like he is spot lighting himself. In reality he is just paving the way for those other specialist to grow. This sounds dumb from the bottom up. From the top down, it makes sense. No one wants to lead their friends. They want to all grow professionally together. This won't happen. Just be the trend setter instead if the trailer.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 19 at 2015 2:39 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 19 Aug 2015 02:39:07 -0400

It's been said that SPC is the best rank in the Army. It's easy to get comfortable and enjoy being good at your job. Another issue is MOS, in some NCO's are in high demand and promotions are too fast... in others there are too many NCO's and promotions are very slow.

Response by CW4 Russ Hamilton (Ret) made Aug 19 at 2015 3:46 AM

CW4 Russ Hamilton (Ret) — Wed, 19 Aug 2015 03:46:41 -0400

I can remember career SPC 4's, 5's, 6's and 7's. I remember the days where guys intentionally got busted back down to E-1 or E-2 so they wouldn't have to be responsible for anything and yet were retained in the Army (late 70's, early 80's). I strongly suggest getting rid of SPC and make everyone CPL's. An awesome rank in my opinion. If you can't handle it, get out. If you won't reclassify, get out. Simple.

Response by SFC Douglas Duckett made Aug 19 at 2015 8:57 AM

SFC Douglas Duckett — Wed, 19 Aug 2015 08:57:17 -0400

For some, it is impossible to leave the "E-4 Mafia". SSG Private RallyPoint Member make a good point. I will add, taking charge and leading others is not "brown nosing" or "ass kissing", if you do not want to stay a SPC, then don't. I made E-4 in two years, E-5 in three, and E-5 (P) in four. Move forward, do not fall back, take that hill. BTW, between E-6 and E-7, I stepped on my wee wee, but I did not give up.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 19 at 2015 10:14 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 19 Aug 2015 10:14:45 -0400

Pass your PT test, Go to college, correspondences courses, ask for ANY additional school (ASI) that you might qualify for. Don't get in trouble!

Soldiers that are career E4's generally are for a resason. Either they have failed to do something to help themselves or because the succeeded in doing something that hurt themselves. Do everything you can to separate yourself from your peers (in a positive fashion) and the rest will take care of itself!

Response by SPC Robert Patrick made Aug 19 at 2015 10:19 AM

SPC Robert Patrick — Wed, 19 Aug 2015 10:19:52 -0400

A couple of things I will say and this comes from the mistakes I made which caused me to be a 6 year E-4. Take advantage of your TA and get certs that will count towards points. If an NCO thinks that you are ready for the Promotion Board do not turn him/her down. Go get your face known. Go to school when you can. Make sure you complete SSD1 as early as possible. If you can get involved with your unit or post Color Guard do it. Take advantage of volunteer events and keep an active record of them (The Volunteer Service Ribbon is worth 10 promotion points). If you are single get involved with the BOSS Program (Better Opportunities for Single Soldiers) they offer a lot of volunteer event normally and it looks good when you go to a board. Strive to better yourself.

Response by SGT Brandon Bergeron made Aug 19 at 2015 2:04 PM

SGT Brandon Bergeron — Wed, 19 Aug 2015 14:04:59 -0400

Our promotion system is out dated. It dates back to the 1940's

Response by SGT George Romiti made Aug 20 at 2015 9:28 AM

SGT George Romiti — Thu, 20 Aug 2015 09:28:39 -0400

Education, stay out of trouble, and stand out! Remember this is your career... So do everything you can possibly do to excel! Plus, of course some e-5s slip through the cracks, but it's the same shit in civilian life! You gotta rise above the rest and take initiative and lead with confidence and with fairness/tact.

Response by SPC Jeff Lamica made Aug 21 at 2015 2:03 PM

SPC Jeff Lamica — Fri, 21 Aug 2015 14:03:38 -0400

As a former "senior" E4, I noticed that the guys that did the right thing, and were always doing more than the minimum had better luck getting promoted. I was active duty, but I doubt the guard/reserves are too different. PT scores, MOS knowledge and proficiency, and generally being squared away at all times were the key to getting promoted. Learn your bosses job after you have learned and perfected your job. If in the combat arms, then Ranger School should be on your radar, along with a shot at EIB. If you want more responsibility, the army will pile it on with a snow shovel, just be ready for it. Don't be the guy waiting to be told to study for the board, be the guy that could walk in immediately.

Response by SSG Chris Garabitos made Aug 25 at 2015 11:54 PM

SSG Chris Garabitos — Tue, 25 Aug 2015 23:54:53 -0400

Start with the 'bottom up' mentality. If done properly, your counseling sessions are a two-way conversation between you and your 1st line outlining goals, leadership potential and NCOES progression. So, step 1: complete SSD then WLC. Step 2: Change your environment. Possibly where you are assignes does not present an environment conducive to individual growth potential. Step 3: Keep an open mind.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 26 at 2015 12:23 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 26 Aug 2015 00:23:51 -0400

Be like drywall mud man. You have something you were made for, but if there is a hole that needs to be filled...you cover it. Own it, make it yours. Be the guy that the new guys come to, the one they emulate. Pick a good mentor and actually them for mentorship. If it isn't your NCO...it can be awkward for you and yours...but the best thing for you is the best thing for you and your NCO should support you. Hell they should kick it up a gear out of wanting to be your example. There isn't any one answer, for me it was alot of hard work and being the guy who got things done right and keept a good attitude.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 26 at 2015 12:34 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 26 Aug 2015 00:34:32 -0400

I very much enjoyed my air assault days. I also enjoy being in an anti armour company. They all would seem to have their good and bad points...but you couldn't pay me enough to climb into a bradley or stryker...that's just not my bag baby.

Response by SSG David Dickson made Nov 30 at 2015 10:11 AM

SSG David Dickson — Mon, 30 Nov 2015 10:11:31 -0500

Most career E-4's are good Soldiers, and even subject matter experts in their MOS. Many I have talked to on this subject think that alone should merit their moving through the ranks. The additional hoops of WLC, SOM and Promotion Boards is too much hassle. Truth is they don't want to be responsibile for anything other than showing up to work, doing their job, and going home. The added responsibilities and expectations of NCO's to focus on the big picture isn't worth the additional headache to most, so they are content where they are. They do their enlistment(s) reach their ETS or RCP, receive their Honorable Discharge, and clear the way for more career-minded Soldiers.

So how do you ensure that doesn't happen to you? I'll echo what has been said in earlier posts.
-SSD1: if you are PFC and this is not yet completed. Fix that. Yesterday
-Correspondence Courses: take courses out of your comfort zone, if you are CA (Combat Arms), take courses that expose your to CS and CSS (Combat Support and Combat Service Support) MOS's and their role in the force. On this note, sign up only for courses, NOT SUBCOURSES.
-College: Do you have any college education? If not sign up for classes.
-Service Opportunities Volunteer in the community: As you volunteer in the community you learn life is more than you. This attitude of service prepares you to provide and think of others, a key component to being an effective NCO.
-Boards: The whole process of studying for boards by necessity exposes you to Army Regulations, traditions, and history. During this process you come to understand the "why's" behind a lot of what we do. On this note, while study guides are effective tools, actually opening up the AR's FM's and DAPAM's allows you to actually read the regulation ver batim, something that in and of itself will set you apart from most of your peers.

Lastly, the question you must answer for yourself is, "Do I want to lead and mentor Soldiers, or do I want to be accepted by my friends"?