Chapter 18 separation. Do you think they should still be able to receive educational benefits?

2015-11-15T06:26:57-05:00

Do you think soldiers who receive chapter 18 seperations should retain benefits? I have witnessed a trend of soldiers gaining weight on purpose to get out of the Army. They are doing this to get out of their contract and use their educational benefits.

Response by PO1 John Miller made Nov 15 at 2015 7:59 AM

2015-11-15T07:59:05-05:00

Unless the member is getting anything less than an Honorable Discharge, they retain their Post 9/11 GI Bill benefits. While it may suck that they retain their benefits even if they aren't holding up their end of the contract (by not maintaining weight standards), that's how it is.

But to answer your question, no they should not retain educational benefits. BUT, it's a slippery slope if "we" start dictating which benefits one does and does not retain when a person is discharged under chapter 18 or another reason and they haven't completed their full enlistment obligation.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 15 at 2015 12:06 PM

2015-11-15T12:06:17-05:00

If it can be proved that the service member in question did this on purpose in order to get out of doing his or her duty, this is another matter and that person could presumably be dealt with accordingly. But if someone has struggled to maintain the standard and loses that battle, well then of course he or she should keep all benefits earned,because in that case the decision to separate was made by the service, and not by the individual.

Response by SGM Matthew Quick made Nov 15 at 2015 12:47 PM

2015-11-15T12:47:48-05:00

Since you witnessed this trend, CPT Private RallyPoint Member, how did you deal with the problem before separation proceedings were initiated?

What if this Soldier was a relative? Would anything think/feel differently?

Response by SPC Christopher Perrien made Nov 15 at 2015 1:17 PM

2015-11-15T13:17:22-05:00

Now what you are describing is 'fraud", AFAIAC , They don't deserve crap as it nullifies ALL aspects of the contract.

Response by TSgt Kenneth Ellis made Nov 15 at 2015 8:41 PM

2015-11-15T20:41:02-05:00

When I was stationed a Ramstein. I had to babysit people who were being kicked out for drug use. One guy told me that he could make more in the outside. I do not remember if he said he had any offers.

Response by SrA David Steyer made Nov 15 at 2015 8:43 PM

2015-11-15T20:43:45-05:00

Isn't this hard to prove in many cases that they are intentionally doing this? Not to mention investigating them and possibly punishing them will keep them in longer, and I am sure some commanders, if not most will want them out ASAP, even if the member makes their make their intent known. Hopefully most commanders will want to nail these people to the cross but again, hard to prove and punishing them may make them stay in the military longer...

I knew a guy who refused to work out and got kicked out for failing enough fitness tests. I went to Basic the same time he was in, same tech school class and got stationed at the same base together. It was well known he didn't care and wanted to get out and guess what...when the AF did a reduction in force two years later he was gone. He got an honorable and the majority of his GI Bill. That same year and reduction in force, a guy who was supposedly stealing and abusing drugs from the pharmacy was separated under the same circumstances instead of a court martial. I say supposedly because I didn't or know the full story except he was removed from his duty section and discharged.

I knew of two other junior service members who was kicked out after a year and a half of total service due to fitness test failures. I have no idea if they kept the GI Bill or not but it was well known they didn't care either. I think they got an honorable and partial GI Bill.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 15 at 2015 8:46 PM

2015-11-15T20:46:22-05:00

NO they did not finish there obligation to the United States of America. So why should we pay them anything

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 16 at 2015 11:58 AM

2015-11-16T11:58:46-05:00

Army regulations say yes, they keep their GI Bill for a Chapter 18 separation.
I don't know how you could prove that a Soldier purposely gained wait in order to exit the service, but if he was dumb enough to admit it, I would have his butt in a sling.

Response by PV2 Glen Lewis made Jul 12 at 2016 8:09 PM

2016-07-12T20:09:06-04:00

As for being discharged for obesity I'm totally in agreement. A soldier needs to be in shape to carry out any duty that is required of them. Using that type of loophole to forward your own designs is not honorable. You have little or none if you have that type of ulterior motive for enlisting and should not be privy to the benefits of those who serve honorably.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 23 at 2018 8:43 AM

2018-05-23T08:43:37-04:00

This is a tough one. Cause as I'm currently going through a Ch. 18. As an NCO I would say stick it to them those big body (blank blank), but there is a line. As I've seen solder's who are amazing, and continue to work hard. Pass everything they need to pass, to include the APFT but fail on the HT/WT part. I've seen Soldiers fail an APFT, pass within 90days. Then fail again at the 6 month mark. Then pass at 90 days again. Nothing happens to them at all (slap on the wrist). How is this even acceptable? Why isn't the fail within 1 year standard put here as well? Cause the numbers would drop in the Military, if the command team is doing the right thing, and not playing favorites! I digress I've done everything to try and lose the weight with no luck. I've been in a total time of 19 years, with a split in service. Never had a problem until my late 30's, then low and behold it won't come off. All of my male family members are heavy set, genetics what a B****! Yet I can still pass any and every APFT in 250's without much prep for the APFT. Still running a 12 minute and some change two mile. However I'm unfit for service? I believe the benefits should be based solely off of a performance model. Can he meet APFT? Does he show drive, and motivation? Would he still be a soldier other then the HT/WT standard? Have they made it to mid-career? These are questions that need to be answered? Cause if they make it through multiple enlistments, then they have full filled a contract once or twice even. However, for first termers, and people looking to separate under Ch.18, they should not get any of the education benefits. However, they shouldn't be shamed.