Civilian Attire on Post: How to properly enforce it?

2015-04-25T22:24:58-04:00

This Soldier was asked by two NCOs to fix his pants. The Soldier claimed to not be a Soldier, but he was at a military clothing looking to purchase the new PTs. He was very disrespectful and not receptive of the orders. What else would you suggest if he refuses to give his command's or his personal information?

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Apr 25 at 2015 10:38 PM

2015-04-25T22:38:40-04:00

No one buying anything on post does so sans id card. "Produce your id card NOW".

Response by TSgt Joshua Copeland made Apr 25 at 2015 10:43 PM

2015-04-25T22:43:18-04:00

One of the reasons I like being AF. We don't micromanage civilian clothing outside of the gym and DFAC.

Response by Cpl Karl Gleason made Apr 25 at 2015 10:43 PM

2015-04-25T22:43:28-04:00

Take ID and report him to his command

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 25 at 2015 11:06 PM

2015-04-25T23:06:31-04:00

Ask him to leave post and ask clothing sales not to sell military uniforms to this self declared civilian. When he shows his military id confiscate and collect name and rank.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 25 at 2015 11:11 PM

2015-04-25T23:11:11-04:00

Just tell him to pull his pants up.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 25 at 2015 11:40 PM

2015-04-25T23:40:44-04:00

Well, if he was merely in the food court looking to buy an Icee, I would await the arrival of the Courtesy Patrol, then I'd dime him out and enjoy the show, if he was that much of a douche nozzle. However, since he's at a Clothing & Sales, claiming to not be a Soldier, attempting to purchase items intended exclusively for the wear and use by Soldiers in the execution of their assigned missions, now we have ourselves a horse of an entirely different color. Given today's treat environment, we cannot afford to take chances. I would immediately contact post MP, and keep eyes-on until they arrived on scene. If the subject were to leave, I would collect as much detailed info about the individual as possible. Height, weight, hair, eyes, clothing, car, license plate #, etc. Was he alone or accompanied; everything I could I get, I would. There are just too many lapses in security sometimes. Who knows, this may be a dry-run for something far more severe. If you see something, say something!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 26 at 2015 2:43 AM

2015-04-26T02:43:43-04:00

I wonder would the same outrage over this picture would be the same if it was a female in yoga pants or tight fitting jeans. Why are we so concerned in the army about what a person wears outside of duty hours? Why do we want to control every aspect of a soldiers life? Just to be clear, when I say soldier I am talking about anyone that joins the military from private to General of the Army. Do we not have more important things to worry about than what a person is wearing when he/she is not on duty? I am sure that some of you that are screaming for the MP's, taking ID Cards and names and reporting them would not like it if it was done to you because the person that saw you did not like what you had on. And then you have to think about that 1SG or CSM that have to deal with such a stupid thing. They have far more important things to deal with or should at least. I for one will continue to wear what I want until the Military starts buying my civilian clothing. Until then just leave people alone.

Response by CPL J Sannizzaro made Apr 26 at 2015 2:47 AM

2015-04-26T02:47:03-04:00

He may be a defendant, he may be on terminal leave and have a spur up his a$$, he may be a Vet buying memorabilia.
If you don't know him and he is not a current danger, at most contact the MP's about his conduct take a pic like you did with your phone. Share it with them. His appearance and behavior are out of place, it's worth reporting. No good reason for his conduct, but it may not be just a case of Dumb a$$ he may truly be up to no good. Follow your gut about the situation, keep your bearings.

Response by COL Charles Williams made Apr 26 at 2015 3:13 AM

2015-04-26T03:13:57-04:00

Tell him who you are, request his ID card, and contact his chain of command. If that does not work (he will not produce it), then call the military police.

Most installations have policy letters on what you can and can't wear, and where.

Response by PO2 Travis Garcia made Apr 26 at 2015 3:50 AM

2015-04-26T03:50:06-04:00

What if he was just doing some shopping for his husband while he was at work?

Response by CH (COL) Geoff Bailey made Apr 26 at 2015 6:42 AM

2015-04-26T06:42:25-04:00

If there's reason to believe the person is a Soldier, ask for his ID card after identifying yourself. If the Garrison Commander has a policy in effect regarding civilian clothing, educate the person in a professional and respectful manner. If he is belligerent or disrespectful, maintain your demeanor while contacting the manager of the store, who can then choose to elevate it to the MPs if deemed necessary.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 26 at 2015 10:18 AM

2015-04-26T10:18:14-04:00

The quality of the photo's pixels is poor. What I see appears to be tight shorts and what seems to be African patterned T-shirt and hat. May its just me but I don't see "sagging" pants.

But to answer your question, ma'am: the moment he appeared in a military clothing store he has no way out until he showed some ID. The idea is to find out his name and report his behavior to his chain, right? I think a better quality picture/video would make better judgement for his leadership to act upon. This is all provided, he really is a Soldier. If he's really a Civilian like he said he was then, two NCOs and an officer just went on a wild goose chase for nothing (happens).

Response by 1SG David Niles made Apr 26 at 2015 10:59 AM

2015-04-26T10:59:43-04:00

Contact the MP's for failure to identify

Response by PV2 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 26 at 2015 11:10 AM

2015-04-26T11:10:50-04:00

What I suggest is ask him to fix himself, if he fails to do so then either notify CP (courtesy patrol) or his chain of command and wait for someone to show up and if that's not enough then there is always the hard way and call the MP's.

Response by SFC Stephen King made Apr 26 at 2015 12:13 PM

2015-04-26T12:13:05-04:00

My initial reaction because my thoughts are usually counter productive is to approach and ask for ID. However, I realize I am jumping to conclusions based on appearance so if the person has stated they are not Military and goes on to purchase Military clothing required ID is necessary for purchase. I still don't have qualified evidence they maybe a spouse, retired or reseverist (National GUard).

Response by SPC David Shaffer made Apr 26 at 2015 12:22 PM

2015-04-26T12:22:07-04:00

I would go Chuck Norris and give em' the knife hand!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 26 at 2015 12:56 PM

2015-04-26T12:56:10-04:00

Mellinials.....enough said!!

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 26 at 2015 2:01 PM

2015-04-26T14:01:08-04:00

When I was a dependant if I did not follow the rules set forth for appearance by the base leadership I was denied service......it's that simple.

When I use to bartend at Rhein Main the base leadership said no males will be served in the base clubs while wearing an earring......so if you were a male come up to order a drink with an earring in we did not serve you....easy.

Guess what i'm getting at is if base leadership takes a stand and sets a standard it does help to curb these types of problems and frees "Good Hearted" NCOs to tackle bigger fish knowing that the baggy pants bandit will not get service anywhere on post.

Just my two cents.....bigger fish in the ocean for the average NCO to attack....this can be addressed by policy and enforced by refusal of services.....we are not walmart.....we can enforce rules in our stores.

Response by CPT George Stotz made Apr 26 at 2015 2:21 PM

2015-04-26T14:21:57-04:00

Attempt an on the spot correction, and attempt to obtain the soldiers identity; if he still fails to comply with a lawful order, either notify the military police and or the SDNCO/OD. If he is a civilian as he claims to be, he is still subject to post regulations and dress codes. Of course I've been retired for a decade or so, and things may have changed.

Response by PO1 Timothy Brown made Apr 26 at 2015 2:30 PM

2015-04-26T14:30:01-04:00

I think in a case like this where this Soldier didn't want to show their ID card then I would have introduced myself and rank and asked again for their ID. If at that time they still didn't want to produce one then I would have stood by for the person that was going to check them out and had them ask for an ID for the purchase which usually happens anyway. Then they either produce the ID or they don't make the purchase. At that point then you can confiscate the ID and contact their unit and or contact Base Police. I would also inform the individual on the history of wearing their pants like that in prison that's a sign for that they are available for anal sex.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 26 at 2015 3:00 PM

2015-04-26T15:00:52-04:00

He wouldn't even be allowed in most Naval installations.

Response by SSgt Dan Montague made Apr 26 at 2015 3:31 PM

2015-04-26T15:31:10-04:00

It is our job to police our own. If this person was asked to correct them self and did not weather military or not, store security should be notified and have this person escorted off base. He will have to show either a dependent or active duty id. So notify his command, or have his host pick him up.
On another note, the employees know the regs, He should not have ben allowed to buy anything until the matter is corrected.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 26 at 2015 4:29 PM

2015-04-26T16:29:02-04:00

I absolutely effn hate saggy pants and cocked hats. But I can tell you this. There are 80 year old that absolutely hate untucked t shirts and jeans. Some hate sleeveless shirts and tank tops. Some ladies hate cleavage. There is a line. But honestly, who Flippin knows what the line is. Your culture is different than theirs. Baggy jeans was once unacceptable. Now as long as I can't see your ass crack, I'm ok with tem. Who are you to play God on fashion. There is a correct answer toy question, who are you to play God. I just want to hear you defend it!

Response by MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca made Apr 26 at 2015 4:31 PM

2015-04-26T16:31:06-04:00

A military base is sorta like a "hood" but with a different dress code. "Our hood, our dress code, all others, there's the gate".

Response by CW5 Jim Steddum made Apr 26 at 2015 4:59 PM

2015-04-26T16:59:25-04:00

A strict dress code was implemented in Hawaii for any person on the installation. Signs were posted at AAFES and Commissary buildings and all employees and military personnel were responsible for enforcing the standards (regardless of status).

Most people followed the guidelines. They few that caused problems were asked (or told to) leave until they were dressed according to the standard.

USAG-HI to enforce new guidelines for off-duty attire

Fashion abides by a set of rules all its own.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 26 at 2015 5:50 PM

2015-04-26T17:50:15-04:00

Get rid of courtesy patrol and keep a platoon of Drill Sergeants at each installation for this purpose. Everywhere needs a Drill Sergeant.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 26 at 2015 6:31 PM

2015-04-26T18:31:33-04:00

Some installations now have posters (see attached) that spell out and show what prohibited off duty attire looks like and what to do if/when you see it...

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Apr 26 at 2015 8:00 PM

2015-04-26T20:00:05-04:00

Okay I admit to being old. This guy looks like some punk gang banger wannabe. If there's a Post policy on appearance in civilian clothes, then I hope he's out of limits. The NCOs who tried to correct him did the right thing. I agree with others who said he might be a bigger threat than a poorly dressed punk.

Response by SSG Leonard Johnson made Apr 26 at 2015 8:48 PM

2015-04-26T20:48:11-04:00

well, this happened in a way to me back in the late eighties outside the PX at Fort Carson... I had someone call the MPs. it is nothing but a thing to have an ID card check. once he comes up as a poser posing as a civilian. have his butt arrested

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made Apr 26 at 2015 10:03 PM

2015-04-26T22:03:58-04:00

I would proceed to challenge the individual on the premise of them being on an Army installation on whether or not they are a service member, they will observe written post regulations. I also would record the incident on my smart phone incase they did something crazy like make false accusations against me.

Response by SSgt Charles Edwards made Apr 26 at 2015 10:35 PM

2015-04-26T22:35:39-04:00

From what I've read on here, the general consensus appears to be the same. Everyone on a military installation has to be authorized to be there. Thus the reason to have your ID on your person. I thought anyone buying something on a military installation had to provide proof of said ID in order to make a purchase. However, the matter at hand is that any service member must present a professional image even in civilian attire. This is why pierced ears and whatnot are generally banned from being worn by males who are military members while on base. If you see a person often enough, chances are you know who they are and where they work. One thing about military communities; regardless of size, that particular world can be very small. This particular individual might want to check himself before he does something insanely stupid.

Response by GySgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 26 at 2015 10:43 PM

2015-04-26T22:43:33-04:00

It's a unit discipline issue. Sorry but on base that doesn't fly. If he isn't upholding the standard and he says he's not in the military or affiliated in some way and won't comply then a few dudes tackle him to the deck maybe rough him up a little and when the MPs get there two service members approached and took down a suspicious person taking pictures of the inside of the base! High five give them an award!!! I crack myself up... But really...

Response by SrA Edward Vong made Apr 26 at 2015 11:39 PM

2015-04-26T23:39:31-04:00

It does not affect the mission and will not give the enemy a strategic advantage, therefor I do not care about his pants sagging. Although it does look quite stupid.

Response by SFC Michael Jackson, MBA made Apr 27 at 2015 3:13 AM

2015-04-27T03:13:30-04:00

Rarely, do I go around correcting people civilian attire unless its totally appropriate (examples; hemp leaf, sexist, or insensitive in nature), it's a military event (like an organizational day) , or I know the person's a Soldier.

At this point, for all I know. he can be a military dependent unaware of his obligation to comply with the request. If he said he wasn't a Soldier, maybe he wasn't. Most Soldiers would follow the orders if they even suspected it was an NCO. Interesting enough, I didn't have identify myself as an NCO. Soldiers almost immediately by my demeanor

Response by PO1 Rick Serviss made Apr 27 at 2015 4:36 AM

2015-04-27T04:36:17-04:00

Ask to speak to the manager of the store, if it's that big of a deal to you. They are responsible for enforcing CO's policy. Maybe this was a dependent?

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 27 at 2015 5:12 AM

2015-04-27T05:12:29-04:00

Continue to ask politely who is 1SG and Commander is and if he is aware that he is not in compliance with the local policy letter and/or Army regulation.

At no time should you get upset or agitated with the "Soldier", even if he is not receptive and is angry that does not mean that you need to be.

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 27 at 2015 6:37 AM

2015-04-27T06:37:34-04:00

Great question and I wish I had a good response. The unfortunate point is that these individuals do not care and you risk getting in a "fight" with them. I have an example that is not the same thing but similar considering it is an "I-don't-care-about-the-rules" situation. Someone parked in a reserved parking spot at my work (the spot happened to be my bosses and she didn't know because she wasn't in at that time) and while I was departing work I realized that the offenders were getting in their car that was in the reserved spot. I walked up to them (in my PT gear so they didn't have a rank for reference and I didn't know their rank) and asked them if they knew they were illegally parked in a reserved spot. They stated, "Yes...but we had a meeting and were running late". I was really a bit shocked because I'm looking at three AF Cops.... My comments revolved around, "You really think it's okay to illegally park" and "you should know better because you are Security Forces"...This was a SMSgt driving, a MSgt and a TSgt. The SMSgt just replied, "Yes, Ma'am" and I'm sure it was the "I'm going to say 'Yes, ma'am' until she leaves me alone'. The funny thing, to me, was that the SMSgt didn't use the SFS/CC parking spot just across the parking lot but felt free to use someone else's. Yes, some may call me a "tool" but it's the "I'll do as I please" mentality found along all ranks that really ticks me off.

Response by Sgt Charles A Vroman Jr made Apr 27 at 2015 8:51 AM

2015-04-27T08:51:00-04:00

He is required by the UCMJ and the oath he took as he entered the Armed Forces to follow and faithfully execute all lawful orders issued to him by those appointed above him. If he does not respond to verbal orders, remove him from the store, establish his identity, identify his unit, and contact his chain of command. If TWO NCO's cannot maintain good order and discipline, that is on the NCO's for not acting/being NCO's and their chain of command for not instilling intestinal fortitude, personal responsibility, and pride in their service.

Response by SFC(P) Aaron Fore made Apr 27 at 2015 8:58 AM

2015-04-27T08:58:17-04:00

AR 670-1, para 3-9, "When on duty in civilian clothes or off duty and outside of their personal dwelling, Army personnel will present a professional image that does not detract from the profession, unless specifically exempted by the commander for specific mission requirements". On or off duty, we are still military members and should set a positive example. Walking around trying to look like a thug does not measure up.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 27 at 2015 9:34 AM

2015-04-27T09:34:33-04:00

I'd probably ask, "how long did you take it in the butt in jail?" "Low-riding" is a visual signal in jail displaying your willingness for sexual activities.

Response by SGT Lawrence Corser made Apr 27 at 2015 9:44 AM

2015-04-27T09:44:35-04:00

I think that those who do wear it should be allowed to wear what they want, as long as it doesn't look totally unprofessional, such as no B cracks, guys or girls, excessive holes in the clothes which I guess is going to be viewer dependent. There used to be a very dumb rule about not allowed to wear plain white t shirts because they used to say they were part of the uniform.

Response by SSgt Robert Clark made Apr 27 at 2015 10:02 AM

2015-04-27T10:02:13-04:00

I can't see the picture very well on my display, but judging from what others have said it appears he is one of the idiots who has his pants pulled down to mid butt. In which case, and in my over simplified opinion, there are really only 2 options:
1. Follow the lawful orders given by an NCO and IAW applicable Army regulations, or face the consequences.
2. Be removed from clothing sales due to shopping without appropriate authorization.
In either case the result is either face disciplinary action by military legal authority/chain of command for insubordination or face legal action by appropriate civilian legal authority AND military authority due to unauthorized use of military facilities. Then to make things really fun, if this is a dependent then bring the sponsor into the picture and let them stand before the commander and explain why they can't keep their dependents under control.

Response by SSG Stacy Carter made Apr 27 at 2015 10:21 AM

2015-04-27T10:21:34-04:00

As this is happening on base at the Military Clothing Sales, the easiest way to get a soldiers information is to identify yourself and request his/her military identification card. If they do not want to provide the card call the military police.

Every base I was on in my 22 years of service had a published standard for civilian attire. Sagging pants was addressed in virtually every one of those published standards.

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 27 at 2015 10:25 AM

2015-04-27T10:25:38-04:00

Any stores (food, laundry, clothing, electronics, etc..) on a military base are required to have many different estabilished rules in place, including stipulations on your attire. Naturally there are open ended "recommendations" that can be enforced by the base commander, store manager, or in extreme cases, base security. While technically 2 random NCO's can't physically force a person to not dress like an idiot, a store manager can refuse him service for not being in compliance with store policy (which is also backed by the base CO) and that technicality can be used against the antagonist to describe his behavior as breaking a lawful order from a superior officer.

As for the suggestion, grab a security guy and tell him some jerk is being rude and crude. If he doesn't want to give up his ID then, its safe to assume hes unlawfully on a military establishment and he can then be detained. The best way to deal with smart ass people who think they are the most intelligent person in the room is to show them they aren't. Then when a member at his unit has to come get him released, or if he finally produces the appropriate identification and gets his ass chewed, he'll think twice about disrespecting his fellow service members (and hopefully himself)..

Response by PO3 Steven Sherrill made Apr 27 at 2015 10:44 AM

2015-04-27T10:44:41-04:00

There have been a number of statements to the obvious buying PTs on post, you have your ID produce it.

Going all the way back to boot camp, the DIs and pretty much anybody at the training posts drill in from day one that upon taking your oath you are an ambasador of the United States. You represent your country, your branch of the service, and your command in everything you do. That is both for good and for bad. This soldier is a poor representative of his command. The NCOs had every right and responsibility to correct this behavior. Unless his MOS was clown, in which case he nailed it.

This seems like such a silly thing, but it is a matter of respecting the uniform. If a superior whether NCO or Officer addresses you, respect should be shown to the Rank. You don't need to know the person to respect the rank.

In the case where a soldier refuses to show ID, I say treat them as if they are a security violator. Order them into custody, call the MPs, and let the MPs take the soldier not to the soldier's command, but to the brig pending a court martial. Terrorism is a real threat. A person on a military post, not in a military uniform, purchasing military uniform components, and without the ability/willingness to produce ID is a threat.

This soldier is in violation of a few articles of the UCMJ:

891. ART. 91. INSUBORDINATE CONDUCT TOWARD WARRANT OFFICER, NONCOMMISSIONED OFFICER, OR PETTY OFFICER

Any warrant officer or enlisted member who--

(1) strikes or assaults a warrant officer, noncommissioned officer, or petty officer, while that officer is in the execution of his office;

(2) willfully disobeys the lawful order of a warrant officer, noncommissioned officer, or petty officer; or

(3) treats with contempt or is disrespectful in language or deportment toward a warrant officer, noncommissioned officer, or petty officer while that officer is in the execution of his office;

shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.

892. ART. 92. FAILURE TO OBEY ORDER OR REGULATION

Any person subject to this chapter who--

(1) violates or fails to obey any lawful general order or regulation;

(2) having knowledge of any other lawful order issued by any member of the armed forces, which it is his duty to obey, fails to obey the order; or

(3) is derelict in the performance of his duties;

shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.

895. ART. 95. RESISTANCE, BREACH OF ARREST, AND ESCAPE

Any person subject to this chapter who resists apprehension or breaks arrest or who escapes from custody shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.

934. ART. 134. GENERAL ARTICLE

Though not specifically mentioned in this chapter, all disorders and neglects to the prejudice of good order and discipline in the armed forces, all conduct of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces, and crimes and offenses not capital, of which persons subject to this chapter may be guilty, shall be taken cognizance of by a general, special or summary court-martial, according to the nature and degree of the offense, and shall be punished at the discretion of that court.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 27 at 2015 11:59 AM

2015-04-27T11:59:31-04:00

I make fun of em and talk trash. Is this the right way no but it makes my day. I have pulled two ID cards in the past though for the disrespecting me both dependents in ROTC.

Response by SSgt Marshall Franklin made Apr 27 at 2015 12:13 PM

2015-04-27T12:13:07-04:00

You do know saggan is a thing they do in prison to show they are looking for a sugar daddy.

Response by MSgt Manuel Diaz made Apr 27 at 2015 1:21 PM

2015-04-27T13:21:11-04:00

I recon that the Military police should have been called to determine if this person was a government issue (gi) or a dependent. If he was a gi an article 15 be implemented and if a dependent call his military parent or parents to deal with him and if that failed article 15 his parent or ban him from his dependent privileges for 90 days or whatever you think is just punishment

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 27 at 2015 2:10 PM

2015-04-27T14:10:33-04:00

If he cant/wont produce an ID, call the MP's. Even dependents are required to have one. If he doesn't have one, they can deal with it.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 27 at 2015 2:16 PM

2015-04-27T14:16:07-04:00

This is interesting because how do we determine what is proper civilian attire? The soldier obviously should not be showing his underwear. However how about when I'm in the gym and I see women and men both wearing yoga pants/and or tights. They are essentially showing there underwear. How about those who wear "daisy dukes" in the PX its the same concept. Everyone wants to focus on this guy because he's sagging and calling him a thug. What's the difference?

Response by SGT Bryon Sergent made Apr 27 at 2015 2:49 PM

2015-04-27T14:49:15-04:00

By regulation it is a Direct order. There for failure to obey a direct order from an NCO, which is an article 92 offense. Call the MP's detain him and have his chain of Command come get his butt from the MP station. If the a fore mentioned "PC" didn't work! Still like the old school method of
SMOKING HIS BA-11s off!!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 27 at 2015 3:41 PM

2015-04-27T15:41:45-04:00

Even the individual truly is not a Soldier, all dependents over the age of 10 must have a military issued dependent ID card. I had one when I was a kid and my kids have them now. So if they fail to produce identification when asked it's as simple as report him to the authorities and wait until they arrive.
If he turns out to be in the military then get him for failure to obey a lawful order and disrespect towards a NCO or Officer (depending on who is making the correction).
If turns out to be a dependent try to make sure his parents know how he was acting and hopefully they deal with him in an appropriate manner.

Again though as everyone has said keep your cool about you and don't do anything stupid, because that could easily be a career killer, especially during this drawdown with people already being QSP'd for no reason what so ever.

Response by PO3 Smokey Bittler made Apr 27 at 2015 5:28 PM

2015-04-27T17:28:29-04:00

If you are a member of the armed forces 1) Have some class 2) if you are on duty or not you must still follow the rules 3) you are a member of the armed forces not in the hood pull up your freaking pants

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 27 at 2015 9:50 PM

2015-04-27T21:50:20-04:00

They should have sat on his ass until the MPs arrived to take his "I'm not a soldier ass out of there. Once you enter the gates of an installation, you are bound by the rules and regulations of the installation. In other words, it don't matter. Now would it cause a scene..yes it might, however, until everyone understands that rules and regulations have meaning and are to be followed....we will continue to have those who feel the rules don't apply to them.

One of them should have dialed the MPs right in front of him and then as he would have began to leave (which he would have) follow him to his car, telling the 911 operator where he is headed and if he makes it to his car, get his licence plate number. Take a picture of him and the car, and licence plate.

Sure he may get in his vehicle and leave, but you can sure bet, he will think twice the next time his lying "I'm not a Soldier ass" or even his civilian ass comes back on post and heads to the PX.

Now some may say, this a bit extremem....well sometimes it takes extreme measures to get some to learn the hard way....that you will follow the rules. I believe NOT many would go to this extreme, but if more would, there would be less violation of installation policies.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 27 at 2015 11:46 PM

2015-04-27T23:46:06-04:00

Demand to see his identification. If he's on a military installation, then he (A) had to have a form of identification to get on the installation in the first place, and (B) is subject to search. If he's in Clothing Sales, he needs to have a military ID to purchase any uniform item, anyway. If he refuses to provide his identification, then either escort him from the premises or call the MPs have have THEM escort him from the premises, or have them detain him until his chain of command can be contacted.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 28 at 2015 3:16 AM

2015-04-28T03:16:47-04:00

Perhaps he was a dependent child of high school age and wanted to buy the PT clothes. As others have suggested, I would ask for his ID card. (he would have to have one to be on post and in the PX unless he is sponsored by someone.) If indeed he were a soldier, he definitely needs some counseling! If he refused to show his ID or showed it but "copped an attitude" I would contact the MPs or the base police (some are civilian) Beyond that I would avoid arguing or any further discussion with the person if he is not cooperative. It could lead to a fight or at least make a scene.

Response by LTJG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 28 at 2015 11:24 AM

2015-04-28T11:24:53-04:00

This is just beyond what a normal conceivable human should wear. He should have been asked to produce his ID and then his chain should be contacted if he chose to be disrespectful. If he would have been receptive to the NCOs, then his attire could have been overlooked until he did it again. Everyone should just were normal clothes (to be defined as tasteful jeans or shorts and a nice t-shirt or collared shirt)

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Apr 28 at 2015 12:21 PM

2015-04-28T12:21:23-04:00

"He was very disrespectful and not receptive of the orders. What else would you suggest if he refuses to give his command's or his personal information?"

If he is not a SM then he is in violation of law,, call the MP's
If he is a SM and refuses to ID himself when asked, call the MP's
Purchasing at a US Army Military Clothing store REQUIRES an active duty ID card or a Reserve / NG card and orders for duty. If he purchased he fits one of those three categories.

Follow up with his chain of command, you may suggest a course of action but not demand.. Be respectful and remind them you will follow up in a few weeks....

If no action in a few weeks, seek an office call with the BN CSM, if no action seek an office call with the BDE CSM, if no action seek an office call with the DIV CSM.....if no action a call to the IG, which will always be met with "have you tried to use the chain of command" you will give a resounding yes, followed by names, times and methods.

Response by SFC Dennis Yancy made Apr 28 at 2015 1:29 PM

2015-04-28T13:29:43-04:00

Call MPs.

Response by SGT Michael Glenn made Apr 28 at 2015 1:30 PM

2015-04-28T13:30:07-04:00

I STRONGLY believe that if its Civilian attire then it should not be messed with unless it is racist or indecent. This person is most deff out of line and I would have simply suggested to the store management to not service this yoyo and would have had the MP's called and an attitude check conducted. As a civilian he still should have to respect the base and its people, if he is a dependent then his parents or spouse need to be counciled to insure that his actions do not bring discredit to his family.... I had the privilege to manage a GYM while in Germany and had a bunch of soldiers come in to play B Ball with their pants hanging down in this manner and told em to pull up their pants or no B Ball, they got all bent and tried the ole ganging up routine they are so famous for but in the end were escorted out by MP's with the actual manager for the GYM telling them to never return. There is a right way to handle things and a wrong way, being on the right side is key in almost every situation.

Response by PO1 Glenn Boucher made Apr 28 at 2015 2:50 PM

2015-04-28T14:50:30-04:00

If he fails to provide his ID, every service member is supposed to present ID when requested to do so by proper authority, then call the base police. Base police may think its a small matter but this service member obviously is lacking in basic respect. Many service members fail to realize that your on duty 24/7 when your serving the obligation that you signed up for.

Response by SSgt Michael Orcutt made Apr 28 at 2015 2:58 PM

2015-04-28T14:58:48-04:00

I had to deal with this issue once with an Airman in the dorms. The odd thing was that he was squared away in his uniform but when he changed into civi's he would wear offensive T-Shirts and people would complain about it. One trip to the Shirts office after I counseled him once did the trick!

Response by Cpl Peter Martuneac made Apr 28 at 2015 3:44 PM

2015-04-28T15:44:37-04:00

On base, civilians have to abide by certain dress regulations, too. The baggy pants would violate these regulations and he would have to comply.

Response by SSG Todd Lysfjord made Apr 28 at 2015 3:45 PM

2015-04-28T15:45:34-04:00

I would suggest the choke slam! Wait, that's not acceptable outside the SOF bubble...carry on!

Response by CPT Pedro Meza made Apr 28 at 2015 4:13 PM

2015-04-28T16:13:36-04:00

Josefine, There is a problem with your question there is an assumption that you are dealing with a soldiers when dependents buy uniforms too. At the same time why was it necessary for the two NCOs to resort to give orders, there is more information needed before a decision can be made. Clothing style is an extension of the persons true self and identity which will cause a negative reaction if perceived as a threat. Perhaps a different approach was necessary if the NCO's had seen him as a dependent instead of a soldier.

Response by SPC Donald Moore made Apr 28 at 2015 4:16 PM

2015-04-28T16:16:12-04:00

Call the police. Any individual on a Military (or other Government) installation must present identification or face legal penalty. Once the identification is presented, it becomes indisputable as to who they are. You may detain a suspect until security arrives. He could be a terrorist.

Response by MAJ Ronnie Reams made Apr 28 at 2015 4:46 PM

2015-04-28T16:46:39-04:00

Calll the MPs and have them find out what he is doing on post and, if he is civilian, why is he shopping in QM clothing.

Response by SSG Richard Reilly made Apr 28 at 2015 4:49 PM

2015-04-28T16:49:01-04:00

-Throat punch.
-call the MP's if he refses to show an ID card.
-Hockey fight...pull his shirt over his head and push him over.
I prefer the third and first bullet but whatever works the best.

Response by SSgt Randy Saulsberry made Apr 28 at 2015 10:25 PM

2015-04-28T22:25:13-04:00

The real problem here isn't the attire but the apparent atmosphere of either the base or your branch of service. As a Marine if I correct a junior Marine there is no questioning it. The only words coming out of their mouth is good to go SSGT then they walk out.
That guy is an example of someone that has no fear of reprisal. And that is either because of the duty station or the organization.

Response by SGT Yvette M Hughes made Apr 29 at 2015 12:42 AM

2015-04-29T00:42:15-04:00

Maybe I'm seeing a different picture. The one I see is a guy in a multi colored shirt and knee shorts. If that's the correct one. The only thing I see wrong is his hat turned backwards. Other comments I've read say something about his pants. I see a belt and form fitting pants. Maybe if it was clearer I could distinguish better. Otherwise, I don't see what the fuss is about.

Response by PO1 Jason Taylor made Apr 29 at 2015 7:57 AM

2015-04-29T07:57:13-04:00

If he don't want to be active duty or says he's not make it happen. Anyone not proud of serving or lies about it don't need to wear the uniform anyways.

Response by SFC David Zamora made Apr 29 at 2015 8:28 AM

2015-04-29T08:28:52-04:00

Try the "Throat Punch". Very effective...

Response by WO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 29 at 2015 1:43 PM

2015-04-29T13:43:51-04:00

If the Service Member is Active Duty, and/or the Base has policy against the wearing of clothes like that, then the Service Member is wrong.

If there isn't a policy, and the Service Member is Guard or reserve, then they are being disrespectful, but not actually doing anything wrong.

If I was a TPU Soldier, and had 28 days of beard, and the day before Battle Assembly I realized I needed new uniform parts, and someone gave me a hard time, I don't know that I'd give my ID to someone enforcing a Reg. that doesn't exist.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 29 at 2015 2:09 PM

2015-04-29T14:09:23-04:00

Wall to wall counseling, even for civilians.

Response by SSG Greg Rivera made Apr 30 at 2015 8:54 AM

2015-04-30T08:54:22-04:00

The Military is coming out with what they call appropriate civilian attire. For men, they can't wear tank tops. I have an issue with this because there is also a policy about concealed weapons. How do I conform to both with these guns (flexing)? I kill myself.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 1 at 2015 5:00 AM

2015-05-01T05:00:23-04:00

It seems this problem as well as the proper wear of uniform happens on occasion everywhere. These younger soldiers are either uninformed or just don't care to accept the military culture and follow rules. I believe it is time to re-inform them that just because they are in civies on post or off post in uniform, that senior ranks have the authority to request ID and perform on the spot corrections and they must comply. Especially while on base, anyone can be asked for ID at any time. We as a culture have become soft on enforcing these standards and it reflects with this behavior.

Response by SGT Suraj Dave made May 1 at 2015 5:01 AM

2015-05-01T05:01:21-04:00

I am going to be honest, and most probably wont like my answer.

I would let it go. It would be against my better judgment. If the soldier refused to produce an ID card, I cant put my hands on him and force him to. If he walks off, I cant detain him. Its one thing to put your hands on someone if there is a potential safety violation, but not for appearance. In the off chance that wasn't a soldier, maybe an ROTC cadet at the highschool on or off post (i.e. a dependent), a soldiers son running and errand for them, etc... that would probably blow up in your face.

Response by TSgt Steve Jasper made Apr 2 at 2017 12:00 PM

2017-04-02T12:00:32-04:00

Unless you're a dinosaur your phone has a camera remind him/her they're on a military installation and subject to search and or arrest and as an NCO you have the authority.

Response by SSgt Al Alvarez made Apr 2 at 2017 3:07 PM

2017-04-02T15:07:20-04:00

Ok, I'm showing my age, but when I was an NCO you could not wear a class B uniform off base. Now, all you see are troops wearing their "fatigues" everywhere. To be honest these ASU's look like PJs and not sharp at all. Wear class A's or go civies when off base.

Response by PFC Pamala (Hall) Foster made Apr 2 at 2017 4:13 PM

2017-04-02T16:13:10-04:00

WHAT THE HELL!!!
Get this clown extra duty til he learns how to dress. A military base is NOT the 'hood. You present ID when asked by anyone of higher rank WITHOUT 'smarting off' at all times. Sagging pants on a baby IS ok, but an adult-NO GO!!! YOU enlisted INTO the military-NOT the reverse. Man if a DS or post commander saw this-can you say that the clusterf*** will get INSTANT correction AND something extra for HIS intentional mistake?

Response by SFC Oddie Brown made Apr 2 at 2017 4:46 PM

2017-04-02T16:46:23-04:00

I thought you had to have an active duty ID to purchase items from clothing sales so he wouldn't be able to buy them anyway. I am retired and there are certain items I cannot purchase. As posted earlier, let the MPs deal with him.

Response by PFC Chris Rhineberger made Apr 3 at 2017 1:00 AM

2017-04-03T01:00:24-04:00

So what's wrong with his pants?

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 3 at 2017 6:03 PM

2017-04-03T18:03:54-04:00

MP's

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Sep 29 at 2017 11:47 AM

2017-09-29T11:47:54-04:00

"This Soldier was asked by two NCOs to fix his pants. The Soldier claimed to not be a Soldier, but he was at a military clothing looking to purchase the new PTs. "
Simple., call MP's, report just what you learned. A non military member was attempting to make an illagle purchase at the clothing sales store which is restricted to military members only. And he refuses to identify himself to senior military authority on site and involved. Give a physical description ..if he gets agitated at your report, make that known to and that you feel a psychical altercation may take place

Response by 1SG Rick Fitzgerald made Sep 30 at 2017 5:35 PM

2017-09-30T17:35:08-04:00

Would not allow individual to leave. He would stand there and await for military police even if I had to request back up of others present!

Response by SPC David Willis made Jan 22 at 2018 4:35 PM

2018-01-22T16:35:46-05:00

Just wondering here, but what's wrong with his pants. Looks to be sitting just at or only slightly below the waist...

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 16 at 2018 1:30 PM

2018-04-16T13:30:15-04:00

Ignorent question here, but is it possible this is a military spouse? I know not likely but just curious?

Response by SPC Jerry Doc Daugherty made Apr 16 at 2018 5:10 PM

2018-04-16T17:10:14-04:00

I served in the ARMY during the 80's. This was before you had men wearing pants hanging off of their butt and men wearing women clothing.
In my time the Officers I knew would of requested an adjustment to the soldiers attire. His denial of being a soldier and belligerent conduct, would of got him a direct order, then a call for MP's. When the MP's arrived and determined him to be a soldier or a dependent, appropriate action would have been determined. The reason for a DIRECT ORDER is his denial and belligerent conduct could and would of resulted in discipline. In today's world and I'm assuming this was on a military base, the man denying he was a soldier would be cause to inform the employee not to serve this man and to without force detain this man until MP's arrived. To me he became a legitimate questionable concern/threat when he denied being a soldier. Unless policy has changed, dependants were not authorized or permitted to wear military clothing. It's always better to say I made a mistake then have a possible threat on base. Everything I wrote is from my timeline in the 80's. I understand policy and rules have changed since my time in the ARMY but I'm of the opinion that I want my military brother's and sister's and their families to be as safe as possible on base. I'm also of the mind set that military traditions and policy needs to remain in place, technology is a good thing but tradition is just as important! God Bless our military and keep them safe! Only my opinion!

Response by SGT Kevin Unruh made Apr 16 at 2018 5:22 PM

2018-04-16T17:22:47-04:00

As i read it, he was trying to buy PTs. Cant do that without an ID card. Observe, if said knucklehead gets turned away then he really isnt a Soldier. If the sale is completed, unleash the full fury of your local NCOs upon him. If he still fails to comply, notify the MPs that there is a suspected unauthorized person on the base. I found there was generally a couple around the mini mall areas when they were open. Either he will pull out the CAC then to avoid a trip to the PMO, or he really isnt and will be escoted off the base (hopefully after being taken to return that uniform to Clothing Sales). Of course if he does pull it out, the MPs will still have to put this down on the blotter. CSM, 1SG, PSG and his squad and team leaders will LOVE him then. ( lesson learned young saggy joe: pull em up and say thank you SGT or discover how interesting life can be)

Response by MSgt Gene Drozd made Apr 16 at 2018 5:58 PM

2018-04-16T17:58:14-04:00

He should be on the blacktop with a sledge hammer, shovel and canteen of water digging a fighting hole in his new PT gear.

Response by SSG James Clark made Apr 16 at 2018 6:41 PM

2018-04-16T18:41:30-04:00

Request ID
Call MP's when refused to provide!
Article 15
Better yet his ass needs gorilla drilled!
Old school!

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Apr 17 at 2018 9:44 AM

2018-04-17T09:44:52-04:00

Call the MP's

Response by SPC Jason Hamilton made Apr 17 at 2018 10:42 AM

2018-04-17T10:42:06-04:00

Maybe he is a civilian. Maybe he's a disabled veteran with an (understandable) grudge due to how the VA has treated him. Maybe he's a BRAT who has daddy issues and is trying to embarrass dad (who likely far out ranks the NCOS) .... the possibilities that he is a civilian with post purchase rights are endless. If he is a civilian with post purchase rights, the NCOS have no authority. Your options are to call the store manager or the MPs

Response by SPC David Willis made Apr 17 at 2018 11:25 AM

2018-04-17T11:25:41-04:00

Still cant see what's wrong with his pants...

Response by SGT Brian Lorkowski made Apr 17 at 2018 11:50 AM

2018-04-17T11:50:56-04:00

If he's on a military post, call the MPs they will straighten out the situation. If he's a civilian, that would be trespassing, right. And, if he is a soldier then his NCO will take care of him.

Response by SGT Brian Lorkowski made Apr 17 at 2018 11:56 AM

2018-04-17T11:56:48-04:00

All around, I think they need to be stronger on teaching military respect in basic, I hear a lot of it with soldiers not acting professional.

Response by SSG Mike White made Apr 17 at 2018 12:19 PM

2018-04-17T12:19:13-04:00

Produce your ID Card now or the MP's will be called. No one gets on any base now without proper ID or they are with an escort. If he can not produce either or he is on base illegally and can be charged.

Response by SGT Tony Paredes made Apr 17 at 2018 1:13 PM

2018-04-17T13:13:22-04:00

In the 70's if youer well off or or hat was turned sideways and when a NCO or higher they put you at attention and they tell you fix it up or go back to your barracks and change cuz right there that ncos they should have put him at attention but these days man they were gone soft I can believe it

Response by SA Carrington Bibuld made Apr 17 at 2018 1:59 PM

2018-04-17T13:59:33-04:00

Remove him from the base. If he is not a soldier, he is a guest.

Response by SGT RMichael Wilcox made Apr 17 at 2018 3:59 PM

2018-04-17T15:59:10-04:00

Ask him for positive ID of any kind whether it be militart, dependent, or proof of being allowed on base and allowed to shop at the px being also 100% service connected. If he still refuses contact the PX manager an let them handle it from here.

Response by LCpl Daniel Symons made Apr 17 at 2018 5:05 PM

2018-04-17T17:05:04-04:00

if he was not in the army he is not required to give the nco shit. civilians love to wear milirary clothing. i was an active duty marine. I dont see the problem.

Response by COL William Oseles made Apr 17 at 2018 5:19 PM

2018-04-17T17:19:48-04:00

Can't get him for his civilian pants but if he was buying clothing in Clothing Sales he LIED. That is chargeable.

Response by SSG M Patrick Vandeberg made Apr 17 at 2018 5:48 PM

2018-04-17T17:48:45-04:00

Not all installations have a courtesy patrol.

Response by SSG Charles McDaniel made Apr 17 at 2018 6:55 PM

2018-04-17T18:55:18-04:00

Looking at his posture I am not surprised, unfortunately far yo many young people feel so entitled to everything including respect when not giving any themselves. Recommendation, if he was argumentative or combative call MP's advise them of his actions, get his vehicle tag number, etc. Then the MP's will be able to handle it, unfortunately (once again) the military as a whole has gotten far to moderate in it's enforcement of respect to those superior in rank, especially when young people are concerned.

Response by MSgt Henry Tops Jr. made Apr 17 at 2018 7:35 PM

2018-04-17T19:35:22-04:00

One of us nco's would of took a picture or short vedio of him ask for ID , if not givin then request military police to check his ID. If he would want to leave before MP's got there , good , then i would get the vehicle ID and tag info. Would make a good efford to check him out. All this i would do to make sure he was not a solider.

Response by MAJ John Moran made Apr 17 at 2018 8:18 PM

2018-04-17T20:18:48-04:00

Call the MPs. All civilians on post have consented to search by Military authority by theit mere presence.

Have him searched for ID. If no ID can be produced, then eject from PX, as he is clearly not authorized to be there, or, Mil ID is located, and proceed to roast this shitbags nut sack, both for looking like a slob, and lying to NCOs

Response by CPT Matthew Tunison made Apr 17 at 2018 9:18 PM

2018-04-17T21:18:21-04:00

This thread is one of the reasons I couldn’t wait to get out. Instead of getting bent out of shape because someone off duty is, oh my god, showing their boxer shorts, spend your time actually getting to know soldiers, who they are, where they’re from, what they like to do. You never know, that could lead to something crazy like them actually wanting to follow you!

And before the standards police go nuts, remember this. The army is its soldiers, who are drawn from today’s America, which is no longer Leave-It-To-Beaver-land. Hate to break it to you.

Being a great leader is about inspiring your troops. Anyone can spit out orders and enforce standards. If that’s what you’re about, go be a cop or something.

Response by SSG William Hubbard made Apr 17 at 2018 9:24 PM

2018-04-17T21:24:11-04:00

Wth has the Army come to.....I think I would fall 2 feet first right in some 1s 3rd point of contact.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 17 at 2018 9:47 PM

2018-04-17T21:47:58-04:00

Youre all actually confused. He may be a civilian and youre not allowed to question that regardless lf whether hes on post or not. Also as a civilian you CAN purchase PTS and ive seen it done a lot. He may be a relative of a soldier. Nothing in your rank allows you to request the ID of anyone not in a military uniform. Calling an MP will do nothing because thare is no crime committed. Its that simple.

Response by 1SG Charles Rosser made Apr 17 at 2018 10:05 PM

2018-04-17T22:05:29-04:00

The Major has it exactly right.

Response by COL Victor Hagan made Apr 17 at 2018 10:29 PM

2018-04-17T22:29:12-04:00

I wouldn't have asked him to pull up his pants. I would have identified myself and directed "high speed" to pull up his pants. If he refused to pull up his pants or gave me some BS answer then I would have called the MPs.

Response by PO2 Rodney White made Apr 17 at 2018 10:55 PM

2018-04-17T22:55:19-04:00

Have security remove him from the facility.

Response by SFC Richard Baerlocher made Apr 17 at 2018 11:10 PM

2018-04-17T23:10:13-04:00

Call the management of the exchange and have them check his ID . Then if he is military call his unit to come pick him up, if a dependent call his sponsor, if a civilian have him escorted off the post.

Response by 1SG Larry Taggart made Apr 17 at 2018 11:17 PM

2018-04-17T23:17:02-04:00

The individual had to have an ID to get on post or was issued a pass. Request that the AAFES employee request the individual show his ID to make the purchase. Call the MP's and get his license plate number. Under most circumstances the MP's will let you know if he is a soldier. Use you cell phone and take his picture. As a Plt Sgt (SFC) I had a soldier acted a fool with my wife and when I arrived he stated he was a CSM put refused to provide ID got his license plate called the MP desk and after telling them the incident they told me his name and Rank. Which was a SPC ( Older soldier) after calling his 1SG he was not enjoying life when I showed up to their formation at the request of his 1SG.

Response by MSgt Mark Young made Apr 17 at 2018 11:21 PM

2018-04-17T23:21:52-04:00

You are required to produce ID when asked on a military installation.

Response by PO3 David Bernal made Apr 17 at 2018 11:34 PM

2018-04-17T23:34:02-04:00

Always some Universal Soldier out there that just has to correct somebody.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 18 at 2018 12:08 AM

2018-04-18T00:08:47-04:00

Contact the MPs if you have concern.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 18 at 2018 12:20 AM

2018-04-18T00:20:44-04:00

Was he retired.. Maybe he was not a Soldier anymore..

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 18 at 2018 12:27 AM

2018-04-18T00:27:03-04:00

Ok it's not cool to show your underwear anywhere..just noticed this looks like indecent exposure and should be handle by the Safes clothing store manager and police .Soldiers should not get themselves into matters that the law or proper authorities should handle..ijs

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 18 at 2018 12:28 AM

2018-04-18T00:28:35-04:00

Aafes

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 18 at 2018 1:11 AM

2018-04-18T01:11:27-04:00

Don’t u have to have a military ID to shop at the PX or clothing store to buy uniform etc?
Ask for his ID then call the MPs

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 18 at 2018 1:14 AM

2018-04-18T01:14:06-04:00

You cannot purchase anything at clothing and sales with out military Identification. I would wait by the registers for him to come check out. When he pulled out his cac to show the cashier I would demand to see it. Take his info and contact his chain of command.

Response by PVT Rich Burns made Apr 18 at 2018 3:21 AM

2018-04-18T03:21:14-04:00

Have MPs come and handle it, he'll either be escorted of Base or thrown in the Brig.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 18 at 2018 3:26 AM

2018-04-18T03:26:30-04:00

I say mind my own business

Response by PFC William Soucy made Apr 18 at 2018 3:58 AM

2018-04-18T03:58:53-04:00

No matter what your rank is lets be clear its a free country we all know this . so what does it matter in the end . there is no law on what kinds of cloths people can or can not buy there is no law what a person can and can not wear . if we want a change then make a law . i know being a 4th gen military i have been the kid of a nco in a clothing store on post buying military cloths and had the right to not only buy the cloths but buy them on post as well . im not defendimg this guy in any way i just see no point in saying something when i know how i personally feel really dont matter much . and to the Maj that was worried about security lol ya a guy in shorts being a ass clown which in the end gets him famous on post for being stupid is not doing much considering he sticks out like a sore thumb js

Response by SFC J.c. Bailey made Apr 18 at 2018 5:04 AM

2018-04-18T05:04:00-04:00

Failing to follow orders to correct his attire while shopping in the clothing store ( unless he is obviously retired) would imply that he is indeed military and subject to the U.C.M.J., being old school I would have called the M.P.s

Response by 1SG Bill Farmerie made Apr 18 at 2018 5:56 AM

2018-04-18T05:56:14-04:00

Since he is not a soldier, he cannot be buying the PT uniform in clothing sales. Ask the cashier to stop the sale until he produces the ID card and then he is yours

Response by SGT Randall Smith made Apr 18 at 2018 6:54 AM

2018-04-18T06:54:58-04:00

When my wife and I go to a PX at Ft Hood, Ft Sam or Lackland AB we have never been ask for ID.

Response by SPC Jeromie Goggin made Apr 18 at 2018 7:33 AM

2018-04-18T07:33:50-04:00

Dependa?

Response by SPC John Decker made Apr 18 at 2018 7:55 AM

2018-04-18T07:55:38-04:00

Military clothing store? On base? He should be required to show military/dependent ID.

Response by SPC Kyle De Wolf made Apr 18 at 2018 9:22 AM

2018-04-18T09:22:40-04:00

Just let it go. You don’t know the circumstances of his life. He might not be a soldier. You don’t always have to exert power over other people.

Response by 1LT Dale Burch made Apr 18 at 2018 10:09 AM

2018-04-18T10:09:24-04:00

Wait for him to actually purcjase the items and you will have your answer....
If he walks out without paying for anything, you will also have your answer....
He hangs himself either way.

Response by SFC John Diane Loyal made Apr 18 at 2018 10:51 AM

2018-04-18T10:51:22-04:00

Is it necessary for officers to have a pissing contest in this format

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 18 at 2018 12:06 PM

2018-04-18T12:06:36-04:00

Honestly, who really cares? Is it that big of a deal? Isn't it possible he's actually not a soldier, and his spouse asked him to pick up a new set of PT's while she was at work? Correcting a soldiers uniform is one thing, but the man is wearing civilian clothes minding his own business for God's sake.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 18 at 2018 12:35 PM

2018-04-18T12:35:54-04:00

Civilian attire should'nt matter as long as he follows all regs on post. If he violates them, then I undetstand. If there are no regs on it, then who cares what they wear.

Response by SFC Tereasa Menke made Apr 18 at 2018 12:44 PM

2018-04-18T12:44:03-04:00

It’s most likely assumed that if he/she is in the AMCSS he/she is there for a reason! 1st find a video link and then 2nd use tact ask / demand his/her DD 2. Call the PM office at last resort!! Integrity.......PASS IT ON !!!!

Response by Sgt Don Elliott made Apr 18 at 2018 12:52 PM

2018-04-18T12:52:41-04:00

Ask him for id if he does not willingly provide call the MP's .

Response by Bklyn Que made Apr 18 at 2018 1:13 PM

2018-04-18T13:13:36-04:00

So what I've read thus far is a bunch of hard docks with nothing better to do, no where to do it and not an oynce of real leadership skills.

First of all what was this clothing violation that would have warranted contacting the command and oh my god the MP's. You bunch of limped dick pussies couldnt handle a uniform violation without the need for the Police.

Secondly, there is no secondly. Its a uniform violation. Pick your battles.

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 18 at 2018 2:02 PM

2018-04-18T14:02:11-04:00

Call the installation's military police. They will require him to identify and if he refuses will apprehend him for failing to do so. You cannot be on a federal installation without proper identification. It is highly suspicious and against post policy.

Response by PO2 Karen James made Apr 18 at 2018 3:44 PM

2018-04-18T15:44:05-04:00

Perhaps he was the spouse...not the soldier?

Response by SGT Rick Myers made Apr 18 at 2018 3:57 PM

2018-04-18T15:57:00-04:00

Well first off he shouldn’t be in the military clothing store as a civilian buying PT’s. There is a mall nearby. Second AAFES should’ve called the M.P’s to have a check done on him in today’s time of terror. Third he is on a military installation which he must follow all rules and regulations dependent or otherwise. Unless there has been major changes to the way things are done on posts anymore. If I was one of the NCO’s I would’ve detained him.

Response by SPC Travis Grizzard made Apr 18 at 2018 4:20 PM

2018-04-18T16:20:32-04:00

I'd say, "If you're buying here, you are a military member, military dependent or here illegally. Show me your ID card OR I'm calling the MPs to have you arrested."
If he is a dependent his sponsor is responsible for his actions.

Response by SGT Ted Bauer made Apr 18 at 2018 4:30 PM

2018-04-18T16:30:25-04:00

Call MP.

Response by SGT Ted Bauer made Apr 18 at 2018 4:31 PM

2018-04-18T16:31:24-04:00

If he was not a soldier what is he doing there

Response by SGT Adam Turner made Apr 18 at 2018 5:39 PM

2018-04-18T17:39:12-04:00

The photographer needs practice...

Response by PO2 Jeffery Reiser made Apr 18 at 2018 7:07 PM

2018-04-18T19:07:22-04:00

He needs to be a card-carrying member to be there. If he refuses to comply, notify military police and have him escorted out as he obviously doesn't belong.

Response by PO1 Katharine Evans made Apr 18 at 2018 7:11 PM

2018-04-18T19:11:20-04:00

He has to present his ID at the NEX. His vehicle should have a pass for base. Call MP’s. Quit coddling this generation, reality and good order and discipline mandates standards.

Response by A1C Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 18 at 2018 7:35 PM

2018-04-18T19:35:25-04:00

Nuts. We have a bunch of 11b sgts and captains saying this is insane. If I'm wrong, let me know, but how do any of these things apply to a spouse buying PT gear?

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 18 at 2018 7:46 PM

2018-04-18T19:46:35-04:00

All post commanders have dress codes guidelines that need to be followed. If policies and guidelines are not followed call the MPs.

Response by MSgt Douglas McIntosh made Apr 18 at 2018 8:00 PM

2018-04-18T20:00:47-04:00

Agree with Colonel Williams.

Response by CPL Gregory Joslyn made Apr 18 at 2018 8:22 PM

2018-04-18T20:22:52-04:00

Request ID, if denied call MP’s.

Response by SCPO Rodolfo Ledesma made Apr 18 at 2018 8:32 PM

2018-04-18T20:32:26-04:00

Ask for his ID if refuses call the MPs as he is at a military installation and must produce is upon request.

Response by SFC David Hackett made Apr 18 at 2018 8:35 PM

2018-04-18T20:35:16-04:00

I know this may offend some but this enabled entitled generation has basically no respect for authority whatsoever. I retired in 2012, work as a GS civilian at a military installation and am constantly amazed at how fast the Army has seemed to lose it's values since even that little bit of time. Talking to superiors while staring at their phones, men wearing ear rings in our waiting room, obviously having side burns too long, fed haircuts. It goes on and on. I'm glad I finished because I literally have to turn my head away from things almost daily.

Response by SN Earl Fullmer made Apr 18 at 2018 8:45 PM

2018-04-18T20:45:13-04:00

Kick him right square in his ass for being such an ass

Response by CWO4 Tim Hecht made Apr 18 at 2018 8:49 PM

2018-04-18T20:49:30-04:00

Unfortunately the "corrective action response" from the 1960s-70s would be against all services regulations!

I'd let the MPS handle this one - they have options available that you don't have - they will have the authority to take him into custody to ID him if he refuses their direction. I would tell the MPS who respond that if he is in fact a soldier that you want to press charges for insubordination, etc.

Response by PFC Anthony Fremont made Apr 18 at 2018 9:46 PM

2018-04-18T21:46:51-04:00

Was he on base in a px or off base at private store.

Response by PFC Anthony Fremont made Apr 18 at 2018 9:49 PM

2018-04-18T21:49:31-04:00

He was at a millitary clothing......store?

Response by SGT Bob S made Apr 18 at 2018 10:54 PM

2018-04-18T22:54:41-04:00

Call the MP’s. Is it an open post?

Response by SSG Kenny Gomillion made Apr 18 at 2018 11:38 PM

2018-04-18T23:38:38-04:00

He wants to play I'm not a soldier card while buying PTs, then play the I'll call the MPs for you impersonating a soldier card.

Response by PO2 David Mays made Apr 19 at 2018 2:26 AM

2018-04-19T02:26:15-04:00

how should a sentry that is checking i.d. cards at the entrance to a military base handle a situation where a person desiring entry to the base does not present themselves as the person on their military i.d. card, for example a gender fluid man that wishes to dress and present as a woman and enter the base dressed as such.

Response by PO1 Mike Wilson made Apr 19 at 2018 2:39 AM

2018-04-19T02:39:52-04:00

Call the military or base police. They will escort him to the proper place.

Response by LCpl Brian Rosenthal made Apr 19 at 2018 6:10 AM

2018-04-19T06:10:48-04:00

I guess the Marine Corps was different...two NCO's 1 private ...o the ass whopping would be on

Response by SP5 Gary Smith made Apr 19 at 2018 10:01 AM

2018-04-19T10:01:38-04:00

In my army this wouldn’t have been an issue.

Response by PFC Patrick Jones made Apr 19 at 2018 10:25 AM

2018-04-19T10:25:59-04:00

Jail

Response by SGT Ken Wynn made Apr 19 at 2018 2:29 PM

2018-04-19T14:29:09-04:00

It has been more than 20 years since I was active duty, but in recent years I have been involved with construction work on military bases as a civilian. The workers of our company know that when on the military base, the culture of the military community will be respected.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 19 at 2018 3:45 PM

2018-04-19T15:45:13-04:00

Possibly a dependent?

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 19 at 2018 5:00 PM

2018-04-19T17:00:59-04:00

Mps

Response by SSG Bender Zachary made Apr 19 at 2018 5:33 PM

2018-04-19T17:33:04-04:00

I guess the Army isn't as professional as it used to be. This would never had been allowed in the 90's

Response by CPL Rick Martinz made Apr 19 at 2018 6:01 PM

2018-04-19T18:01:18-04:00

What a shitbag!

Response by LTC Richard Peppe made Apr 19 at 2018 7:09 PM

2018-04-19T19:09:07-04:00

Interesting! Well if he claims to be a civilian what is he doing on base and in the clothing sales store? If he insists on being a civilian call the MPs to escort him off post.

Response by SSG Timothy Hodges made Apr 19 at 2018 7:23 PM

2018-04-19T19:23:11-04:00

Ever thought it could be a bonafide Military dependent who is not subjected to the UCMJ.

Response by SFC Ed Pinson made Apr 19 at 2018 8:48 PM

2018-04-19T20:48:02-04:00

Time to call MPs. KICK OFF POST FOR LEWD BEHAVIOR. OR jail him, if military, hold until picked up by chain of command.

Response by SPC Charles Batchelor made Apr 19 at 2018 8:56 PM

2018-04-19T20:56:15-04:00

It's possible he could be a JROTC Cadet but unlikely.

Response by SPC Paul Golden made Apr 19 at 2018 10:16 PM

2018-04-19T22:16:31-04:00

Call the MPs if he can't or won't produce his ID card when prompted. If he does have an ID, contact his CoC for failure to obey a legal order and disrespecting an NCO. Either way, he's pretty much done. Of course, an old-fashioned smoke session never hurt anyone.

Response by Sgt Kevin Sheehan made Apr 19 at 2018 10:26 PM

2018-04-19T22:26:56-04:00

How did this hood rat get on any way???

Response by SPC James Wininger made Apr 19 at 2018 10:55 PM

2018-04-19T22:55:23-04:00

Or maybe he is the spouse of a military soldier and is buying the new pt uniform for her. Therefore you continued to harass a civilian and are now having charges pressed against you! Way to lead by example there sarge

Response by Sgt Mark Tarte made Apr 19 at 2018 11:50 PM

2018-04-19T23:50:32-04:00

As an old military cop, this youngster would have been braced, ID'd and his first sergeant called to come get him now. A report would then be generated for his command and copies sent to the appropriate authorities on base; JAG, base commander, SP commander.

Response by CW4 Charles Dawson made Apr 20 at 2018 12:33 AM

2018-04-20T00:33:25-04:00

To purchase anything at a PX or quartermaster sales store, he needs to produce a military ID.

Response by MSG Louis Alexander made Apr 20 at 2018 3:18 AM

2018-04-20T03:18:47-04:00

Confront Individual and request identification. Refuses to present? Knowing ID is required for clothing purchase, coordinate with store clerk, call MP’s have clerk lock store doors and stand by with subject until MP arrival. End of Story.

Response by CPO Keith Davis made Apr 20 at 2018 8:52 AM

2018-04-20T08:52:50-04:00

Contact base security and they'll straighten it out

Response by LCDR Gary Buda made Apr 20 at 2018 9:17 AM

2018-04-20T09:17:06-04:00

If he’s not a soldier why is he Shopping at a military clothing store.

Response by PFC Josiah Schmid made Apr 20 at 2018 9:59 AM

2018-04-20T09:59:33-04:00

Ask for ID if not call the MP

Response by SGT Larry Stacey made Apr 20 at 2018 10:19 AM

2018-04-20T10:19:28-04:00

I AGREE TOTALLY WITH SFC MERINO. ALSO, HIW DID HE GET ON POST WITHOUT AN ID IN TODAYS ATOMOSPHERE? I LIVE ABOUT 50 MILES FROM FT. CAMPBELL, KY. N I BET I WOULD HAVE TO HAVE ID, PROOF OF OWNERSHOP OF MY AUTO, INSURANCE N I DIN'T KNOW W IFAT ELSE JUST TO TAKE MY TEENAGE GRAND- NEPHEW TO VISIT THE MUSEUM. SO A DUDE ON POST IN THE PX HAS TO HAVE HIS ID WITH HIM.

Response by Edge Hardy made Apr 20 at 2018 10:20 AM

2018-04-20T10:20:35-04:00

Kick His Ass Out The Store

Response by SFC Jerid Barkley made Apr 20 at 2018 10:22 AM

2018-04-20T10:22:47-04:00

Attention, Front Leaning Rest Position. MOVE!!!

Response by SMSgt John Adrian made Apr 20 at 2018 10:32 AM

2018-04-20T10:32:47-04:00

You are not supposed to be able to purchase anything in Clothing Sales unless you have an ID. How is this guy even on base without an ID. I think you immediate call the Military Police. As a Senior NCO, I would direct 3 or 4 people to restrict his movements till the Air Police got there.

Response by 1SG Charles Shank made Apr 20 at 2018 10:37 AM

2018-04-20T10:37:21-04:00

He would be giving up his ID card to purchase the military Items, therefore he would be giving that ID card up to anyone who outranked him. Period.

Response by Cpl Ralph Edwards made Apr 20 at 2018 10:39 AM

2018-04-20T10:39:19-04:00

Maybe he is a dependent.

Response by SSgt Luang Tom made Apr 20 at 2018 11:31 AM

2018-04-20T11:31:47-04:00

The new Army...

Response by Cpl Allen Smith made Apr 20 at 2018 11:50 AM

2018-04-20T11:50:11-04:00

Definately call MP’s.

Response by PO3 Joshua Mann made Apr 20 at 2018 11:53 AM

2018-04-20T11:53:06-04:00

Dependent maybe.

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 20 at 2018 12:05 PM

2018-04-20T12:05:28-04:00

If this is on an installation I would call the MP, if an individual is on post without identification that’s a security risk. Simple and straight forward if he is a soldier he lied to an NCO that’s an immediate article 15, I would let his command deal with it.

Response by SSG Donald Cowin made Apr 20 at 2018 12:18 PM

2018-04-20T12:18:11-04:00

Throat punch his smart ass!

Response by Sgt Jim Albedyll made Apr 20 at 2018 12:18 PM

2018-04-20T12:18:35-04:00

Is this just a crappy picture or am I missing something? I can’t see any issue with his pants

Response by SSG Donald Cowin made Apr 20 at 2018 12:20 PM

2018-04-20T12:20:10-04:00

Throat punch Move!

Response by CPL Kenneth Vizavati made Apr 20 at 2018 1:00 PM

2018-04-20T13:00:34-04:00

Get the MPs then he’d be forced to give information

Response by CPL Kenneth Vizavati made Apr 20 at 2018 1:02 PM

2018-04-20T13:02:45-04:00

Back when I was in the military granted times have changed but if not a soldier you weren’t wearing our BDUs

Response by CPT William Jones made Apr 20 at 2018 1:07 PM

2018-04-20T13:07:58-04:00

ID your self, ask again. If still refuses notify MP and observe. After they come and take care of him if you want to pursue ask at mp station house about his id and call his NCOIC or CO. Those are the people that have to start any action

Response by PFC Lacey Burke made Apr 20 at 2018 1:13 PM

2018-04-20T13:13:28-04:00

I'd wait til he paid and look at the ID because you need one to buy.

Response by SPC Joe Weddington made Apr 20 at 2018 2:21 PM

2018-04-20T14:21:01-04:00

Potential threat. Call the Mp's.

Response by SSG Ssg Carlos made Apr 20 at 2018 2:33 PM

2018-04-20T14:33:37-04:00

Call the mp and take him to his chain of command

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 20 at 2018 3:14 PM

2018-04-20T15:14:20-04:00

Its simple! Ask him for his ID card and if he refuses, ask him who his sponsor is, get their information and then forward it up the chain. If you are bent on correcting him you had better be good to go yourself.

Response by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 20 at 2018 3:15 PM

2018-04-20T15:15:29-04:00

Ncos that go around correcting soldiers on there free time are a joke. Go home spend time with your family restrain your hooah. No one respects SGT hooah

Response by SGT David Nicholas made Apr 20 at 2018 3:56 PM

2018-04-20T15:56:12-04:00

Call the MP's and have his ass removed from post because he obviously has no business there!

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 20 at 2018 4:15 PM

2018-04-20T16:15:41-04:00

In today's world we have to accept him for who is is. He may be a soldier, but he obviously identifies as a civilian. Who are we to assume his status?

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 20 at 2018 5:08 PM

2018-04-20T17:08:29-04:00

Slap the #%&@ upside the head!
But in all honesty make him produce ID and report him.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 20 at 2018 5:48 PM

2018-04-20T17:48:51-04:00

Mantra of the E-4 mafia, "Admit nothing, deny everything, make counter-accusations."

Response by Cpl Lloyd Martin made Apr 20 at 2018 6:21 PM

2018-04-20T18:21:59-04:00

Call MPs follow his punk ass out of store and anywhere else he went.

Response by SFC Kenneth G. made Apr 20 at 2018 6:23 PM

2018-04-20T18:23:04-04:00

Snatch his ass by the scruff of the neck and take him behind the building and.... Oh yeah this is the new military and you can't do that anymore. I guess the right thing to do would be to call the Military Police to have the person escorted form the premises and have him ID'd and find out if he is in fact a soldier. Then I would have him up for charges of disrespect of authority if he is a soldier.

Response by Cpl Lloyd Martin made Apr 20 at 2018 6:29 PM

2018-04-20T18:29:31-04:00

All above commets were SPOT ON. Call MPs remember description, follow as much as possible. In this day and age I'm sure a phone with camera is somewhere close by. DON'T latter say WHAT I SHOULD HAVE DINE. DO IT NOW .

Response by SGT Joseph Miller made Apr 20 at 2018 6:36 PM

2018-04-20T18:36:28-04:00

Call the MP's and even if he was a civilian it doesn't change a thing. Had a dependent spouse who constantly walked around with his pants around the bottom of his ass all the time and his wife's command kept getting called and she didn't fix the problem until they were kicked out of housing and he was restricted from base. Our base ,our rules and if you don't like it don't let the gate hit you in the ass on the way out.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 20 at 2018 7:36 PM

2018-04-20T19:36:41-04:00

Talk about a bunch of butt hurt cry babies. He didn't fix his pants better call CI he could be a terrorist

Response by SGT Boyd Nowlin made Apr 20 at 2018 8:03 PM

2018-04-20T20:03:36-04:00

You're in the military 24/7 not 8 and hit the gate. Policy States keep your pants pulled up take off your hat when you go in the building in treat people with respect if your asked to show your I.D. do so. No one should be allowed into any type of military store expresly on base without proof of identification or bieling in Proper uniform this includes haircut and shave . The military police should have been contacted ASAP also if this individual is active duty his chain of command should be alerted ASAP. I'm sure the 1st sergeant have some kind words for this young man.

Response by CMDCM Michael Weyrauch made Apr 20 at 2018 8:19 PM

2018-04-20T20:19:08-04:00

If no ID card, call security, if he attempts to leave before security arrives, detain for unauthorized presents on base.

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 20 at 2018 8:46 PM

2018-04-20T20:46:34-04:00

Civilians can buy stuff on post for their spouses that are soldiers can't they? On the other hand there's a reason Drill Sergeants are at AIT now..

Response by SPC Mark Whittleton made Apr 20 at 2018 9:05 PM

2018-04-20T21:05:54-04:00

Good old ass whipping.

Response by SPC Mark Whittleton made Apr 20 at 2018 9:07 PM

2018-04-20T21:07:29-04:00

I'm sure they could find enough in the UCMJ to ruin his month.

Response by SSgt Daniel Cotnoir made Apr 20 at 2018 9:24 PM

2018-04-20T21:24:17-04:00

I miss the day he would have been snatched up off his feet and dragged out of the store

Response by SrA Dan Frady made Apr 20 at 2018 9:29 PM

2018-04-20T21:29:16-04:00

Call the MP's

Response by LCpl Silvrhawk Walker made Apr 20 at 2018 10:32 PM

2018-04-20T22:32:56-04:00

He needs to pull up his diapers. Or if he runs just watch them fall to his ankles and laugh

Response by SPC Nicole Holden-Kemp made Apr 20 at 2018 11:53 PM

2018-04-20T23:53:33-04:00

He had blatant disregard for the instructional given by an NCO. When you are a soldier you are expected to dress in a way that is “becoming” and not reflect badly on our armed forces. You are a soldier 24/7. He should have 2 weeks of extra duty. Since he doesn’t know how to behave when he is not on “duty hours” then he deserves to have some of his “off duty” time removed from him.

Apparently the standards and the expectations of soldiers have laxed and this can become a discipline problem, that could potentially cost lives later down the road. I was in the military in the late 90’s. We had more discipline. The problem is stemming from lax reqruitment and interview portion of the MEPs. They let these people slip through, who have no discipline or any other qualities that are required for a good soldier who will not cost lives later.

This soldier will eventually have other issues later on. It is a shame but it is a trend that many new soldiers display today.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 20 at 2018 11:57 PM

2018-04-20T23:57:47-04:00

Anyone on post should respect the regulation...

Response by PFC Keith Brusseau made Apr 21 at 2018 12:11 AM

2018-04-21T00:11:10-04:00

Could he have been a spouse of a soldier?

Response by 1SG Chip Sahoy made Apr 21 at 2018 12:11 AM

2018-04-21T00:11:12-04:00

Easy. Wait him out. He's going to have to show ID to make a purchase at MCSS... He'll either do so, or leave without a purchase. If the cashier does not ask for the ID, the cashier should be reported to AAFES.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 21 at 2018 1:08 AM

2018-04-21T01:08:40-04:00

Call the mp’s

Response by TSgt Nicholas Nieves made Apr 21 at 2018 1:18 AM

2018-04-21T01:18:19-04:00

WHAT KIND OF NCO's ARE YOU TWO? DONT ASK HIM TELL HIM ORDER HIM OR CALL THE MP OR AIR COPS ON HIM

Response by CW2 Guy Compton made Apr 21 at 2018 7:37 AM

2018-04-21T07:37:43-04:00

Okay, so you're a CPT? NCOs operate with the authority delegated them by commissioned officers. YOU failed! You should have stepped in, presented your ID to the punk with his psnts around his knees, demanded to see his ID (regardless of his stats as a soldier or not, he is required to present ID on post), and if he refused to comply at any stage of the process, you should call the MPs. Yep CPT, THE FAILURE OF EVERYTHING IN THIS SITUATION BELONGS TO YOU. If you are in HR you should know this stuff.

Response by CW2 Guy Compton made Apr 21 at 2018 7:51 AM

2018-04-21T07:51:18-04:00

If you are a 42 A commissioned officer, then the failure here belongs to you. NCOs operated with the delegated authority from commissioned officers. When you witnessed t he young man failing to comply, you should have stepped in presented your ID, demanded his ID (he is required to present ID on post, regardless of his status), if he refused, you should then call the MPs. If he turned out not to be a soldier, you should ask him for his sponsor's POC information to follow up. What you shouldn't do is come on here and describe your failings as a commissioned officer. Sorry to be harsh, but that's how I see it.

Response by CPT Gordon Berkstresser made Apr 21 at 2018 8:00 AM

2018-04-21T08:00:28-04:00

MAJ Holland was spot on. Assuming his reply was valid and he is NOT a service member, I would collect 2-3 friends to detain him and call the MPs. We would call it in as detaining a threat who denied being a soldier while in an area restricted to soldiers. They have the authority to determine his status. If he’s a family member, his spouse, mom, dad etc will be directed to collect him. If he’s a service member, his commander will be advised he is being detained and that he lied to superiors regarding his status. This cat-and-mouse cutesy bull is just not going to happen with me in our threat environment. We owe it to ourselves and others to determine if this person is a threat.

Response by PO3 Brian Woods made Apr 21 at 2018 8:29 AM

2018-04-21T08:29:25-04:00

I've got a question, if he's a civilian how did he get on base?Navy and marine Corp you have to have IDs and escorts to be on base.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 21 at 2018 8:53 AM

2018-04-21T08:53:16-04:00

As a former NCO, I agree completely with MAJ Hoiland. He wants to play games and be disrespectful, then games shall be played. In the name of safety and security.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 21 at 2018 12:57 PM

2018-04-21T12:57:13-04:00

It’s a known fact there are no male dependents in the entire US Army...

Response by MAJ Jack Journeycake made Apr 21 at 2018 1:42 PM

2018-04-21T13:42:55-04:00

Remember use only the minimum force required to subdue the individual until the MP's arrive. One would think it to prudent not to attempt escape so many times. Have the MP's haul the residue away when they get there.

Response by AN Kae Graham made Apr 21 at 2018 3:05 PM

2018-04-21T15:05:02-04:00

You guys are over here criticizing this man who is sagging his pants out of uniform at a store. The way he dresses has nothing to do with you. You’re not from the same place as him and you don’t have the same background as him which means you will NEVER understand his reasoning for dressing that way. Just like you can’t speak on someone doing their job who has a different MOS or Rate that you, you cannot speak on this simply because you have no expertise or knowledge of his cultural background. It doesn’t matter if you don’t like it, you can’t say anything about it because you don’t dress that. Period. Just disapprove internally and keep it moving. No one has to be arrested because you salty people don’t like someone who has a different style than you. Calm down and stop wasting your energy on things you guys can’t control.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 21 at 2018 3:09 PM

2018-04-21T15:09:29-04:00

I am not active anymore but when I was I seen fellow NCO,s wear their pants down sagging down to ankles hat on backwards then they say they are gangsta

Response by SSG Cecil Vaughn made Apr 21 at 2018 5:42 PM

2018-04-21T17:42:36-04:00

Call the MPs and have his ass escorted off the post

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 21 at 2018 5:50 PM

2018-04-21T17:50:22-04:00

im not saying the dude is in the right but i am saying people/leaders are too over sensitive to this kind of thing unless it affects mission readyness or hampers your ability to close with and destory the enemy who gives a shit

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 21 at 2018 6:19 PM

2018-04-21T18:19:47-04:00

Is it just me or we’re getting a hunch if undisciplined soldiers now a days?

Response by SFC Wayne Tuttle made Apr 21 at 2018 6:26 PM

2018-04-21T18:26:05-04:00

Till him to get the hell out of Military clothing and sales. If you didn’t have the proper military ID to be in their shopping

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 21 at 2018 6:29 PM

2018-04-21T18:29:20-04:00

Everyone’s talking about calling the MP over something stupid y’all are why good SM and NCo get out of the military. Granted sagging pants aren’t professional but that the one time we actually get to be ourselves in the military like ease off a little Christ

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 21 at 2018 6:42 PM

2018-04-21T18:42:37-04:00

He could be a dependent. But I would have found out who his sponsor was and give them the earful. When I remarried my wife told my stepson to be on his best manners on the base because it reflects on me.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 21 at 2018 6:46 PM

2018-04-21T18:46:09-04:00

Only in the army. This is an organizational issue. Create a more disciplined environment and these won't be issues.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 21 at 2018 7:25 PM

2018-04-21T19:25:17-04:00

It makes since why everyone down on the line is sitting around until 7pm to go how, because all the senior ncos and officers on staff are sitting around on point and Facebook. This is what happens when people stopped deploying to combat zones they start coming up with things to keep busy, it really doesn’t matter that homeboys pants were low.

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 21 at 2018 7:26 PM

2018-04-21T19:26:22-04:00

The culture comes from jail. Growing up in the Bronx I did it for a month not know where it came from. Just thought it was cool but it wasn't comfortable AT ALL so I never did it again. Never understood why these turds still do it when it ment you were taken or you give it up in jail.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 21 at 2018 8:05 PM

2018-04-21T20:05:05-04:00

Call the MPs. They will get to the bottom of it.

Response by PFC Jim Kevlin made Apr 21 at 2018 8:43 PM

2018-04-21T20:43:27-04:00

How about getting off your high horses, minding your own business, and leaving the guy alone? Did that thought ever occur to any of you?

Response by SSG David Andrews made Apr 21 at 2018 8:51 PM

2018-04-21T20:51:38-04:00

Call the MP's and let them sort it out.

Response by SGT Michael Boston made Apr 21 at 2018 10:06 PM

2018-04-21T22:06:55-04:00

Have the MPs dispatched for unauthorized and unescortecd individual. Once detained then that call to his 1stSgt will start the ball of enlightenment rolling!! Love to see that explanation while standing on the carpet.

Response by SPC Ramon Huezo made Apr 21 at 2018 10:17 PM

2018-04-21T22:17:52-04:00

I say put him in the stockade

Response by SSG Richard Snyder made Apr 21 at 2018 11:59 PM

2018-04-21T23:59:02-04:00

This happens at Ft. Indiantown Gap all the time.

Response by PO1 Bruce McCollough made Apr 22 at 2018 12:04 AM

2018-04-22T00:04:18-04:00

I agree with SFC Merino, if you're on a military base without an ID card who are you, and how did you get on base?

Response by CSM Patrick Durr made Apr 22 at 2018 1:49 AM

2018-04-22T01:49:26-04:00

Wow, age old issue. SUB standard conduct from undisciplined Soldier. I've seen 99% of leaders walk right on by either because they've engaged the situation without positive results or were just part of that big part of leadership that fails to make On the Spot Corrections. If there is no doubt that the individual is a service member, make the correction. Note the response. It's rarely the offense that gets Soldiers in trouble, it's the response to other leaders or lying about it when challenged that does. Anyway, watch the Soldier, note vehicle plate number. Any 1SG can run a plate with the provost marshal and find the individual. Allow the Soldiers Chain of Command to handle it. Most will, some won't. As a CSM, I've gone to other CSM's who were offended that I would even suggest that they had a substandard Soldier. This is our Army, some times it sucks. Bottom line, don't get into a pissing contest with a substandard individual in a public area. They have nothing to lose.

Response by SSgt Lawrence Bolen made Apr 22 at 2018 3:31 AM

2018-04-22T03:31:01-04:00

If i direct request does not work summons MP/AP/SP military installations are not downtown any city USA. This could easily have been an intruder, or a test of rediness. All soldiers have a duty to adress these types of incidents. E1 all the way to the highest brass. If you dont adress it you bless it. When you take the Oath you agree to suspend some of your personal liberties for the good order and discipline of the service. Individual needed an attitude adjustment anything from a good old fashioned smoking up to or including an Article 15 for failure to obey a lawful order. Technically we were on duty 24/7

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 22 at 2018 8:59 AM

2018-04-22T08:59:51-04:00

Where is your father or mother? Ask him their branch. If he holds a dependent military id. Treat him like a child.

Response by SGT Evan Farley made Apr 22 at 2018 9:47 AM

2018-04-22T09:47:20-04:00

Get a life and move on.

Response by SFC John Chmidling made Apr 22 at 2018 9:49 AM

2018-04-22T09:49:26-04:00

I had a solder that was off post in uniform with head gear on, I was also in uniform. He removed it and then 10 minutes later I ran into him again. When I made the correction again he acted up so I asked for his ID and he would not do it. So I told him no problem.
I waited until his group went our one got in their car. I walked up and wrote down the post sticker number.
Called the desk sergeant at MP station, got the soldiers unit information and called the first sergeant and discussed the situation.
The first sergeant asked me to come over before the end of day and I was in the office when he called the specialist in. At first he denied the incident until the first sergeant called me in the office.
The look on his face was priceless. First sergeant handle the corrective action and thanked me.
There is always a way forward without causing a scene.

Response by SGT Evan Farley made Apr 22 at 2018 9:58 AM

2018-04-22T09:58:39-04:00

Reading is fundamental, however it seems most here didn't read the part where he said he wasn't a solider. Dependents aren't beholden to your "authority". As they CPT failed to provide ANY evidence to the contrary may be she should just pack it up and call it day.

Response by CW3 Doyle Frost made Apr 22 at 2018 10:25 AM

2018-04-22T10:25:22-04:00

As mentioned, call the MP's and he will be required to prove his identity. If it turns out he was actually a soldier, then charges can be brought against him for failing to obey a lawful order. If he is a dependent, what business does he have in a military clothing sales store? If a civilian, he has absolutely no business in a military clothing sales store. Thus, he can legally be escorted out by the MP's.

Response by 1SG Art Wagner made Apr 22 at 2018 10:37 AM

2018-04-22T10:37:48-04:00

Article 91 ucmj covers this..

Response by SCPO Anthony Wingers made Apr 22 at 2018 10:41 AM

2018-04-22T10:41:05-04:00

For the PV2 who said an NCO could not give a lawful order. Beg to differ. NCO can give a lawful order. Never mentioned direct order, did I? Trust me, disobey a CPO or a Petty officer appointed over you and see how quickly article 15 impinges on your nicely ordered life. A Non Commissioned Officer is just that. He can give you a lawful order which it is your duty to obey. Generally it has to do with conforming to a regulation or order issued by a superior Officer of the Comissioned type, generally flag rank. Nice hair splitting though, there, bunkhouse lawyer.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 22 at 2018 11:24 AM

2018-04-22T11:24:02-04:00

As a former MP, I agree with everyone else’s sentiments on this matter. If he “is not” a soldier, why is he trying to buy PTs. So logic says he is and he lied about it to take heat off of himself for dressing like an A-hole.

Response by Regina Pogmothoin made Apr 22 at 2018 11:29 AM

2018-04-22T11:29:06-04:00

Put that motherfucker on blast and have him fork over ID...a military installation is not Abercrombie & Bitch...

Response by SSG Terry De La O made Apr 22 at 2018 11:59 AM

2018-04-22T11:59:06-04:00

Wall to wall counciling.

Response by SPC David Hamm made Apr 22 at 2018 2:08 PM

2018-04-22T14:08:38-04:00

I think they have cut back a little too much on this part of training.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 22 at 2018 2:11 PM

2018-04-22T14:11:37-04:00

I would call the MP's

Response by SSG Jamil Spruill made Apr 22 at 2018 2:47 PM

2018-04-22T14:47:15-04:00

Something I've noticed since being at MacDill Air force, Navy and sone junior enlisted figure if their job isn't combat then they are not soldiers but we are all military which equates to some form of soldier. He would stiil have to produce and ID he's on base he should have a dependent ID, civilian contractor ID, GS level ID or soldier ID of some sort

Response by LTC Chris McIntyre made Apr 22 at 2018 3:09 PM

2018-04-22T15:09:28-04:00

Response by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 22 at 2018 3:52 PM

2018-04-22T15:52:26-04:00

Call the MPs and have them put him on the blotter

Response by SGT Patrick Oxford made Apr 22 at 2018 4:09 PM

2018-04-22T16:09:46-04:00

Call the M.P.s.

Response by Sgt Arthur Caesar made Apr 22 at 2018 4:16 PM

2018-04-22T16:16:27-04:00

Have Approiate officer demand his ID.

Response by 1SG Patrick Holmes made Apr 22 at 2018 4:18 PM

2018-04-22T16:18:12-04:00

Demand his id card and unit. Turn him over to CPs or MPs. Then bitch slap his PSG.

Response by SPC Aaron Jowell made Apr 22 at 2018 4:58 PM

2018-04-22T16:58:59-04:00

I understand the disrespect, but as long as he's squared away as a soldier and he's on his personal time, stay in your own lane. Yes, he looks retarded with his pants down, but piss off if you are not his actual command.

Response by SFC Richard W Middleton made Apr 22 at 2018 5:32 PM

2018-04-22T17:32:24-04:00

Bitch slap it

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 22 at 2018 7:21 PM

2018-04-22T19:21:42-04:00

The clothing store would not sell to him untill and unless he produces his military ID. So I'll wait to see if he is legitimate or fake. If he is, I'll alert the MPs.

Response by SSG Joel Burden made Apr 22 at 2018 7:48 PM

2018-04-22T19:48:10-04:00

Just punch his ass in the throat then tell him if he would like to file charges he can have his sgt contact your commander lol

Response by SCPO David Clingman made Apr 22 at 2018 7:49 PM

2018-04-22T19:49:09-04:00

Command Senior Chief Hospital Corpsman - Retired David L. Clingman. I agree with the Col, On board the USS America CVA-66, in '68. had a couple of sailors that had poor hygiene. Finally fixed their problem with a cold shower and a floor scrub brush. Problem was fixed, and an example was set. Another instance when some gave us a hard time about all the shots we had to keep up with on every sailor on board.(5,000 men) and and about a 30 man medical crew, we "lost their medical records(over the side of the ship) They then had to go through the whole process of creating a new record. Dental, Medical, exams, etc and yes, ALL their shots. In the upper left corner of the record jacket were the letters...FWC. F...s with corpsman.

Response by LCpl Kenneth Holt made Apr 22 at 2018 8:03 PM

2018-04-22T20:03:36-04:00

Have the M.P's called to escort him off the base.

Response by PO1 Charles Babcock made Apr 22 at 2018 8:12 PM

2018-04-22T20:12:38-04:00

if he was still on base, detain him until his ID can be confirmed. If he is NOT a soldier, he has zero business being in that store. If he is a soldier, his ass should be in the brig.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 22 at 2018 8:53 PM

2018-04-22T20:53:13-04:00

If his conduct is important enough for you to want to fix, observe his actions in the store to see if he actually purchases anything. Explain the situation to the cashier and have them check his ID. They could then also write down his name, rank, etc.. and provide it after the sale. Do with that information what you will in terms of locating chain of command etc...

Response by PO1 Jeff Craddoc made Apr 22 at 2018 9:03 PM

2018-04-22T21:03:38-04:00

I sound so old saying this, but in my day that crap was not tolerated. Saw my Chief of the Boat, yes submarines, ask an E2 to take out his earring, he refused, COB walked up and removed for him, it was obviously blocking his ability to hear. Your Navy today I cannot understand their english. I can only imagine the 4mc announcement, fire in the torpedo room, don't bother the flooding will put it out would sound like!

Response by Sgt Cary LaValley made Apr 22 at 2018 10:16 PM

2018-04-22T22:16:41-04:00

Back in my day he would be placed under arrest as he should be now

Response by SSgt Dave Albrecht made Apr 22 at 2018 10:43 PM

2018-04-22T22:43:18-04:00

Why is he in a MCSS if he is not military? Doesn't he have to show ID card to purchase?

Response by SSG Rob Miller made Apr 22 at 2018 11:28 PM

2018-04-22T23:28:04-04:00

School Of The Infantry.....Wood Line All The Way..

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 23 at 2018 12:05 AM

2018-04-23T00:05:47-04:00

If he bought the pt shorts then he was most definitely a soldier..no one wears short shorts that distasteful for no reason

Response by SP5 Thomas Jameson made Apr 23 at 2018 12:17 AM

2018-04-23T00:17:02-04:00

If he’s a civilian, not much you can do - except maybe wait for his sorry azz in the parking lot <evil grin>!!!

Response by SPC Anthony Ogden made Apr 23 at 2018 1:15 AM

2018-04-23T01:15:16-04:00

It's called Leavenworth after an Article 15 which goes for everyone and I don't care what your color or Creed is! At least that's the way it was when I was there. The rules are the rules.

Response by SGT Joshua Tracy made Apr 23 at 2018 1:55 AM

2018-04-23T01:55:31-04:00

His pants are.not sagging though? What's the issue? I will say that when your in the notary , your in the military 24/7 and should act and dress accordingly. But his pants aren't sagging and his underwear isn't showing... What's the big deal?

Response by PFC Adam Cason made Apr 23 at 2018 8:53 AM

2018-04-23T08:53:15-04:00

If you're on post and you don't produce ID when asked, you are now a risk/threat. Your ass is going down. So just simply ask for ID

Response by CPT Randall Sands made Apr 23 at 2018 8:58 AM

2018-04-23T08:58:07-04:00

When I was in the military civilians couldn't use the military stores so the question what was he doing in the store if he was a civilian? Even a dependent had to have an ID so was subject to military standards.

Response by SPC Byron Skinner made Apr 23 at 2018 7:21 PM

2018-04-23T19:21:08-04:00

Sp4 Byron Skinner, I see a couple of pending issues here. First the individual appears to be an African American, the race issue like it or not is always there. It would appear that he is at a check Point that requires Identification regardless of dress. Not in the military be polite the first time and if non compliance or rude speech or behaviors call the Duty Military Police. To determine the acceptability of his dress or his behavior. After the first attempt is not the job of those manning check points. If the individual gets violent are goes for a weapon, well thats why gate guards carry a hand guns and if you are in the Marines there is always a guy in full battle rattle with either an M-4 or a shotgun who's job is to make sure undesirables don't get on post.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 24 at 2018 1:51 PM

2018-04-24T13:51:59-04:00

Response by PO3 Ranger Beavis made Apr 24 at 2018 5:13 PM

2018-04-24T17:13:37-04:00

Security! No one on military site undocumented!!

Response by SGT Bryan O'Reilly made Apr 25 at 2018 7:55 AM

2018-04-25T07:55:38-04:00

I would have more problem with his attitude toward authority than his being a slob. But that's not why we have it. We must command respect through fair discipline and by helping them understand that we are direct and severe because privates arguing with NCOs costs lives. That's what it all boils down to. And it has to be re enforced but should not permanently effect their careers other than get them straight. I'd say the NCO's should have been able to correct him on the spot and maybe they need some remedial training on how to deliver a block of instruction to a subordinate. The offender can wear dress greens for a Saturday afternoon in front of the PX to learn the error of his ways
My two cents.
Bayonet!

Response by SGT Louie Santana made Apr 25 at 2018 9:07 AM

2018-04-25T09:07:09-04:00

First of all wether SM or not he’s on post and needs to understand there is a fine line he has crossed. If he wants to look like a clown he can do that at the mall or back on the block block.

Response by SPC Richard Stevenson (Munden) made May 2 at 2018 9:40 PM

2018-05-02T21:40:08-04:00

Hard to make out from the photo. What was the issue with his pants?

Response by SGT Christopher Hayden made May 3 at 2018 2:51 PM

2018-05-03T14:51:43-04:00

Just visit any of the gyms here on Hood. You'll see much more revealing clothing than just some dude's boxers.

Response by SSG Brian G. made May 6 at 2018 11:17 PM

2018-05-06T23:17:53-04:00

Here is where you have to refer back to the commanding officer of the post/base etc., as to what the standard of dress is when on the installation and not on duty. If this person is a service member or dependent then they have to have an ID card. As far as I recall, unless the service member is in uniform the average service member has no authority over them, even to ask for their ID. An MP/SP/SP can approach and demand ID of anyone, regardless of what they wear or where they are, so long as they are on the facility proper.

This young douche nozzle could very well be telling the truth in that he is not a soldier, he could be a dependent or discharged but still with facility access.

Response by Capt Al Parker made May 8 at 2018 7:37 AM

2018-05-08T07:37:52-04:00

It's easy if the individual doesn't respond to your request notify the Base/Post/Station Military Police. I had an incident wear a contractor was wearing an Army field jacket with stripes, I told him to take it off and not wear it on base. If I caught him again wearing it on base I'd call the Ap's. He took off the jacket and I never saw it again. Of course that was back in the 70's.

Response by PO2 Louis Fattrusso made May 8 at 2018 5:54 PM

2018-05-08T17:54:35-04:00

Even if he’s a civilian he should respect the request. He should have been refused service or challenged to show ID.

Response by MGySgt Tommy Martinez made May 9 at 2018 9:28 AM

2018-05-09T09:28:11-04:00

What happened to the days of the good old tree line!!!!!

Response by SFC Steven Barry made May 23 at 2018 9:26 AM

2018-05-23T09:26:51-04:00

You claim to be an officer. Why didn't you arrest him? Just off hand I can think of multiple charges.

Response by SPC George Holbert made May 24 at 2018 5:31 PM

2018-05-24T17:31:44-04:00

As a former military brat and as a soldier, I've spent a lot of time on a lot of bases. As a brat, I knew that I would need to be able to produce my ID upon request by any active military member or SP/MP. As active duty, it wasn't much different, except I was generally in uniform when I was on post.

Response by PFC Patrick Jones made May 30 at 2018 11:12 AM

2018-05-30T11:12:26-04:00

Kick him off post

Response by SGT Charles Aspinall made Jun 22 at 2018 2:36 PM

2018-06-22T14:36:16-04:00

First off document what was said by the soldier and the NCO, note in the statement the failure on part of the soldier to fix the problem. If the soldier won't submit his ID, note his license plate number on his POV and run it through the provost marshal's office and notify his chain of command. Nowadays with cell you can obviously document said bad behavior with a photo or video. Just remember don't use profanity or lay hands on them and your in the clear. PVT Snuffy is going to be in a world of hurt when it comes time for the first of the month.

Response by SSG Grant Burgess made Jun 26 at 2018 11:27 PM

2018-06-26T23:27:37-04:00

i hope the new clothes fit him better looks like the old ones are 3 sizes to big lol

Response by SSG Grant Burgess made Jun 26 at 2018 11:28 PM

2018-06-26T23:28:19-04:00

I hope the new clothes fit better than the ones he was wearing cause they look like they are about 3 sizes to big lol

Response by SFC Ken Heise made Jul 14 at 2018 10:04 PM

2018-07-14T22:04:54-04:00

Warning: Taking people’s photo and posting it online without their expressed permission can get YOU into a lot of trouble. If he decides to file a formal complaint through the proper channels you will be the one in hot water and your argument will be moot. This posting may/ may not be subject to “revenge porn” laws even though it shows an everyday occurrence.

Response by MCPO Roger Collins made Aug 12 at 2018 11:12 AM

2018-08-12T11:12:42-04:00

What are the base regulations regarding civilian dress? I find nothing more infuriating than a bunch of laws or regulations ignored by leadership. Enforce them or rescind them.

Response by SSgt Bruce Probert made Aug 20 at 2018 10:44 PM

2018-08-20T22:44:59-04:00

Call the MP's and deal with him professionally I believe that being at clothing sales he needs to have a current military id to make a purchase. There is no excuse for this kind of behavior.....

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 29 at 2018 1:08 AM

2018-08-29T01:08:46-04:00

You can easily take that incident and turn it into like 4 counseling. If he can’t conform to the rules get him out.

Response by SFC William Huse made Oct 19 at 2018 7:49 AM

2018-10-19T07:49:38-04:00

Watch him leave, get his plate number, have the post MPs run it to find out who he is. Easy from there, take the issue to his Bn CSM and let the shit flow downhill. Dealt with rag bags like this many times. If they denied being a soldier, I made their dream come true. Back to the block with a smile on my face and a tear in his eye.

Response by SFC Michael Arabian made Oct 19 at 2018 2:21 PM

2018-10-19T14:21:11-04:00

If he not a service member than he someone dependent and unless policy have changed from when I was in, they apply to him as well

Response by SGT James Ritchey made Oct 19 at 2018 2:46 PM

2018-10-19T14:46:23-04:00

Leave it alone. If this is indeed a joe he will dress like that around his command and let them handle it. Stop being a douche. MPs have better things to spend their time on then someone getting their feelings hurt cause no one recognized you puffing your chest out. Stay in your lane and leave it alone.

Response by SGT Jon Creager made Oct 19 at 2018 5:50 PM

2018-10-19T17:50:35-04:00

Last time as a retired soldier, i tried to purchase some brass and replace ribbons i was told . (ACTIVE DUTY ONLY).

Response by Cpl Rc Layne made Oct 19 at 2018 7:49 PM

2018-10-19T19:49:36-04:00

What did you do, Captain?

Response by LCpl Darrell J. Farley Jr. made Oct 19 at 2018 8:41 PM

2018-10-19T20:41:26-04:00

Throw his Ass in the BRIG!!! If he ain’t a Soldier charge him with Trespassing on Government Property!!! If he is a Soldier have him Psyc Evaled!!! Better yet! Tell him he’s right, he isn’t in the Army, turns out he’s in the Marines and you’re taking him to MCRD in the Morning!

Response by SSG Charlie Beebe made Oct 19 at 2018 9:25 PM

2018-10-19T21:25:49-04:00

Who is to say he is/is not the spouse of a military member doing some shopping for them.

Response by GySgt Donald Vilandre made Oct 19 at 2018 9:59 PM

2018-10-19T21:59:48-04:00

Well, he disobey two lawful orders by senior personnel. Also violating dress regulations. Refused to hand over the ID card as order by seniors. This person violated about 5 regulations. Those two NCO's can make a military apprehend and hold this individual for MPs to come.

Response by SSG Jess Peters made Oct 20 at 2018 1:16 AM

2018-10-20T01:16:40-04:00

Ask for identification. Failing that call the MPs.

Response by HA Jace Gallagher made Oct 20 at 2018 2:24 AM

2018-10-20T02:24:27-04:00

I'd just wait for him to reach the counter. He'll have to produce an ID to buy anything. Then call the MPs and report everything, including the ID

Response by MSgt Kenneth Erichsen made Oct 20 at 2018 2:23 PM

2018-10-20T14:23:29-04:00

Ask, Tell, Make. Ask him to produce ID, Tell him to produce ID, Make him produce ID. Contact MP's if he does not comply. Ultimately (if uncorrected), his Command should make him a civilian with a BCD...no time for BS. Art 15 is only for those otherwise worth saving. COL Williams and the Maj are correct.

Response by Lt Col George Roll made Oct 20 at 2018 3:11 PM

2018-10-20T15:11:46-04:00

Give him a legal order, when he refuses to comply summon the Military Police ask that he be required to reveal his identity. Contact his commander and CID with full details of the incident let his commander and the CID deal with it.

Response by SGT Andrew Vasas made Oct 20 at 2018 4:21 PM

2018-10-20T16:21:31-04:00

He is a black punk. Obama made them untouchable, what do you expect?
Vote Red

Response by SGT Michael Hartman made Oct 20 at 2018 6:35 PM

2018-10-20T18:35:14-04:00

Should have beat his ass.

Response by SPC Charles Batchelor made Oct 20 at 2018 8:45 PM

2018-10-20T20:45:09-04:00

He may not be in the miltary but a civilian auxilary that has PX privledges.

Response by PVT Kevin Richardson made Oct 20 at 2018 9:20 PM

2018-10-20T21:20:24-04:00

How did he get in the clothing store, if he was NOT in the military? Doesn't the cashier check ID before purchases anymore?

Response by SSgt Larry Atkinson made Oct 20 at 2018 11:36 PM

2018-10-20T23:36:20-04:00

Did the clerk let him buy them? This military clothing store on base? Did the clerk ask for an ID? If the answers are Yes call the MP's , if he isn't military he'll be thrown off base. If he is, give the MP's a written statement and he will be charged under the UCMJ. Not sure of the Army dress codes, I'm just an old SSGT MP. Did get to spend 3yrs at Ft McClellan as a MP instructor.

Response by Cpl Lester Anderson made Oct 21 at 2018 12:02 AM

2018-10-21T00:02:17-04:00

He could be a dependent of an active service member, back on base for family holiday. In that case, a civilian as claimed.

But civilian family members of that age are required to have a military association ID if memory serves me correctly. His serving parent would have educated him as to what the base dress code is.

Reporting NCO is right. Correct the offense.

Response by SGT Michael Glenn made Oct 21 at 2018 12:09 AM

2018-10-21T00:09:27-04:00

Should have been detained on the spot, Mp's called and escorted to either a cell or his unit depending on just how far he was willing to take his disrespectful attitude. It was an issue back in the day as well and has been tolerated for so long that it's just another day for most of these individuals. Used to be you could watch people scramble for a building or keep driving @ 1700 and ignore the flag comming down. They want to be in the military but choose to disrespect it.

Response by SPC Zach Barbadillo made Oct 21 at 2018 3:14 AM

2018-10-21T03:14:05-04:00

I got out in late 2011, so I'm sure regulations are changed, amended added to ect, and perhaps it varies slightly post to post, but what exactly is wrong with this soldiers attire? Civilian clothing never seemed to be a big issue unless it was something obviously ridiculous and intentional. Just curious as to what the problem is here? Is it his clothing or his response to the instruction?

Response by MAJ Steve Daugherty made Oct 21 at 2018 1:30 PM

2018-10-21T13:30:01-04:00

Call the MP’s if he is acting disorderly or violating regulations otherwise leave him alone . Unless he is in uniform or you know his chain of command, then you might want to reflect if he just annoys you by the way he barely wears his trousers. The plumber butt look makes them seem clownish in appearance but sometimes we have to bite our tongues and grant others the freedom to look stupid

Response by SSG Lance Wendling made Oct 21 at 2018 1:35 PM

2018-10-21T13:35:28-04:00

An MP can and will square that situation away.

Response by MSgt James Vercher made Oct 21 at 2018 4:00 PM

2018-10-21T16:00:51-04:00

call the MP's

Response by SGT Richard Cranium made Oct 21 at 2018 4:49 PM

2018-10-21T16:49:12-04:00

You simply contact the Military Police.

Response by LTJG C Mader made Oct 21 at 2018 4:57 PM

2018-10-21T16:57:29-04:00

Civilian law can help out with this on that base is considered restricted Federal property which means all persons on that property have to be authorized or escorted by an authorised person.that being the law all persons within the boundaries of the installation are subject to all policies rules and regulations thereof by simply calling the MP's and asking this person who claims to not be a soldier who he came on base with and who he is with he would have to identify that person and be in the vicinity of that person or at least that's how it was when I was in

Response by LTJG C Mader made Oct 21 at 2018 5:00 PM

2018-10-21T17:00:09-04:00

Any person on a restricted Federal installation must identify themselves when requested by a person with the authority to do so failure to identify properly is a crime under the UCMJ and under civilian law because of the nature of the installation

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 21 at 2018 6:30 PM

2018-10-21T18:30:10-04:00

Too many young minded NCOs abuse their powers. If he is doing something wrong call the MP or store manager. Where does it state in any regulations that you have to show your I'D to just anybody that ask for it? NO, store worker or manager yes if they ask for my I'D show it. If it's part of post policy to show your I'D to any NOV you should show it. Most people need to mind their business it doesn't look like his pants hanging down from the picture and if was I'm sure store employees would have corrected it and if not still mind your business or call the Mps stop getting butt hurt

Response by LCpl Jeff Moore made Oct 21 at 2018 6:51 PM

2018-10-21T18:51:05-04:00

ask for his ID then but could be he a dependent buying the uniform items for his sponser.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 6 at 2019 9:35 PM

2019-01-06T21:35:12-05:00

Super easy. Mind your own business

Response by MSgt Steve Sweeney made Jan 6 at 2019 10:57 PM

2019-01-06T22:57:54-05:00

What is the specific regulation regarding civilian clothing for the army or this installation?

Response by SFC William Stephens A. Jr., 3 MSM, JSCM made Jan 7 at 2019 8:12 AM

2019-01-07T08:12:58-05:00

Request his ID from him and if not call the MP's and get him for unbecoming a soldier

Response by CPL Robert Short made Jan 7 at 2019 9:13 AM

2019-01-07T09:13:43-05:00

Depends on the post.

If you have an AIT school there then he might not be a soldier rather just somebody's brother.

Or of you have an open post he might just be some dude who wondered in.

Ft belvior used to have those problems all the freaking time.

Response by CSM William Payne made Jan 7 at 2019 9:48 AM

2019-01-07T09:48:28-05:00

Most installations have implemented pretty comprehensive clothing retrictions the last several years. Especially while in the PX, commissary or other area opened to public access. I would inquire if there is a policy against wearing of clothing in this situation. If yes, then I would address the individual and let them know that they are in violation of Post policies. Then have someone call the MPs. Military, civilian, doesn’t matter if this is a violation of post policies. You do not have the authority to force him to show you identification or to produce an ID card. The MPs can.

Response by CPO Zack Lindsey made Jan 8 at 2019 6:57 PM

2019-01-08T18:57:32-05:00

Well for myself and other fellow squids this is a easy one ( as long as they are on sea duty ) they have to make it of the Q.D. and well if the watch officer has a keen eye and he better, if he will be answering about it later lol, than said sailor must make it down the pier with a lot of other O.O.D. That are going to be checking out off going sailors not to mention CPO. that will be moving about, but if all else fails and I was not in uniform and seen said infringement. I would try and let him or know of such. And if it do no good I would let them know that it would be better for the to take care of it themselves than the MP’S SP or there command depending how bad the violation was. There was some that when we where in forget ports that where worse than others. THAT IS ALL CARRY ON

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 8 at 2019 7:38 PM

2019-01-08T19:38:54-05:00

i don't see the problem. retirees can use the clothing sales store and don't have to adhere to any regulations as does any medically retired military individuals. I have a beard and long hair. I still use military clothing sales. if anyone approached me I'd politely tell them to kiss my ass and continue shopping. that maybe my ptsd is rearing it's ugly head. you maybe military 24/7, but you do have off duty time! you maybe retired, but you're still military, but the rules do change. I was at my va hospital today and was challenged when I went to the gym for tai chi. I signed as usual. then a guy said I've never seen you in here before. have you been authorized. I said yes. I told him I was there for my tai chi appointment. he asked me for my name in very authoritative manner. it ticked me off. I'd been using the gym for nearly 4 months. the pain management clinic authorized me to use the gym. if this guy would have put his phone down and took his head phones off maybe, just maybe he would have seen me on prior visits. he's always looking at his phone! I admit I have a problem with people always on their damn phones driving, walking, or while doing their job. I was t-boned on my motorcycle because the idiot was on the damn phone! I don't show anyone respect until they'd earned it. it's not a given thing for me since I retired. i'll be polite, but that's it. I don't expect respect in return until it's earned, polite maybe.

Response by SrA Laura Quarles made Jan 20 at 2019 8:59 PM

2019-01-20T20:59:12-05:00

So far I’ve read a whole bunch of “throat punch” wuss-isms and thinly veiled racist comments. There have only been a few that made sense. When I was active duty, my husband was a civilian...even though he kept a short haircut and looked like he could’ve been active duty. The person in the photo stated they were not a soldier, and I guess no one ever thought he could be the spouse of a soldier? Right? The keyboard warriors just want to show how violent they are in their mushy brains, and the racists want to spout off some idiotic BS about sagging pants in prison. How can you even see his pants in the crappy picture provided?

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 7 at 2019 11:48 AM

2019-02-07T11:48:43-05:00

I'll be honest, I can't tell what they're even wearing

Response by Sgt Aaron Pixler made Feb 7 at 2019 6:31 PM

2019-02-07T18:31:17-05:00

Demand his ID. If that doesnt work detain him. Ask for assistance, call PMO At that point of refusal hes become a threat. In todays day and age, trust no one.

Response by 1SG Charles Simpson made Feb 10 at 2019 9:25 AM

2019-02-10T09:25:16-05:00

All (repeat "all") personnel entering a military installation are required to produce a valid form of identification to gain entry to the installation and are subject to search by appropriate authorities at all times while inside the installation. This rule is not negotiable and is not open to interpretation. All personnel who refuse to comply with this policy are subject to apprehension and/or arrest for noncompliance. The fact that we are discussing this matter is a very clear indication that we have become too complacent and much too relaxed in enforcing security measures.

Response by SgtMaj Billy Zinnerman made Feb 10 at 2019 9:38 AM

2019-02-10T09:38:30-05:00

Well most definitely, Identify yourself. Tell him this Is Inappropriate attire and he needs to change It Immediately If not sooner. If he Is smart, He will follow your Instructions. If he Is a Shit Bird, Command can use This as an example.

Response by Carlos Marcelo Viñas Chromeček made Feb 10 at 2019 9:38 PM

2019-02-10T21:38:44-05:00

Only apply the regulation.

Response by PVT Jon Kozak made Feb 11 at 2019 12:34 PM

2019-02-11T12:34:37-05:00

I would ask to see his identification card and if he could not produce one hold him until the authorities came

Response by PO1 Donald Hammond made Feb 12 at 2019 1:37 PM

2019-02-12T13:37:38-05:00

Once when I was coming off of leave I went in to pick up my paycheck (when we actually received a physical check) and the pay person wrote me up for my grooming. Hair out of spec, beard (yes we could have beards then) out of spec. I showed him my leave papers and he didn't care. My command had a good laugh.

Response by PO1 Donald Hammond made Feb 12 at 2019 1:41 PM

2019-02-12T13:41:28-05:00

Now in response to this issue, if he never produced an ID card then you don't know for sure he is actually a soldier. Maybe he is the son of a soldier. Now I agree that it is stupid (to say the least) to wear his pants that way on base but if he isn't really a soldier, not much you can do except contact his sponsor and let them deal with it.

To deal with refusal to produce an ID card, stalk him. Find out where he lives and what command he is in. Make sure he knows you are following him. Use binocs. Take pictures. lol

Response by MSgt John C. made Feb 12 at 2019 2:00 PM

2019-02-12T14:00:59-05:00

Last time I visited military clothing a military ID was needed to show the cashier. I'd call the military police. Also it could be a dependent. Of course he might just be restocking his off base garage sale operations and has snitch immunity with the military criminal investigative services who are getting cash kickbacks under the table.

Response by SFC Tracy Scott made Feb 13 at 2019 3:50 PM

2019-02-13T15:50:59-05:00

I know this if the person is on a military installation, then asked by two active duty military personnel to pull up his pants, he I indicated that he was not a soldier.
This present several issues
1. When you entered the installation you were required to present identification or he was a guest and required to sign in with a sponsor.
2. As he has indicated, he is not a soldier, which would indicate he must be in the presents and accompanied at all times by his sponsor.
3. If this person was left by his sponsor, as his sponsor is responsible for the accountability and actions of this person, his sponsor should also be held accountable.

The action I'd take;
1. I'd present my military I.D and identify myself
And nature as to why I was approaching him.
2. Request the persons I.D
No I.D, I'd request the name and whereabouts of his sponsor. As I'd restate my request, the said person to pull up his pants and present himself is himself in a military manner.
3. If he claims he does not have a sponsor,
My next call is to the M.P's I'd also remain with the subject until they arrive.
4. When the M.P's arrive if it is discovered he was, in fact, a soldier, then my presented request turns into a direct order, a requested appointment with his 1st Sergent, Platoon Sergent, and Squad Leader, at which time I'd present the occurrence and details, we would then discuss what type of action to take.

Response by Sgt Mike Dargusch made Feb 14 at 2019 11:48 PM

2019-02-14T23:48:44-05:00

He is on base, and is required to carry an ID with him, civilian or otherwise. All ranks have authority to tactfully request ID. NCO+ have authority to detain. Problem solved.

Response by SGT Andrew Brooks made Feb 19 at 2019 1:34 AM

2019-02-19T01:34:13-05:00

I would have probably pinned him with something like, "well, you certainly don't look or act like one... Bit if you're NOT, then the question is which one of two kinds of deep Shiite you're in then.... Because we are soldiers, on base, with orders to follow, especially about non-military persons in base facilities, so do we call the unit of the soldier you're visiting, so they can be told to collect you, or the or do we call the MPs to come collect to turn over to the FBI, since they investigate whatever unauthorized people are up to where they shouldn't be?"
Then put some effort in not laughing at whichever way he panics until after I'm quit of him! ;-)

Response by SGT Juan Robledo made Feb 27 at 2019 4:45 PM

2019-02-27T16:45:02-05:00

Get his name and rank report it to the SDNCO or his, First Sgt, or Commander, there's no reason for any male to be walking around base with droopy drawers, instead wear a diaper that way anyone seeing you with your drawers hanging down will realize your just a low life with no discipline and respect

Response by SGT J M Porters made Mar 12 at 2019 6:14 AM

2019-03-12T06:14:03-04:00

What would you say to her? First this is a poor picture to make a judgement call. #2 how is this affecting you? And no I do not agree with sagging pants however, what would you say if you saw this? For most of us we have forgotten how hard we tried to maintain a little of our connect to the world before the military. I remember trying to make a point to my three daughters about staying in school and getting an education by say you do not want to end up waiting on tables like this lady. And my late wife corrected me by saying this is an honest living and she is trying to support her family. I understood what my wife was saying and I had used a poor example. Sometime teachable moment train themselves. But still I ask this question what would you say if you saw her in the food court or at the bowling ally? Or even at the officer club.

Response by CPL Christopher Taylor made Mar 14 at 2019 8:04 AM

2019-03-14T08:04:54-04:00

The correct answer to this situation is to contact the Military Police they will most often wait outside of the PX or Commissary for the individual and question him and if he refuses to produce proper identification they will take appropriate actions via protocol.

Response by 1SG Ernest Stull made Mar 16 at 2019 8:30 AM

2019-03-16T08:30:15-04:00

Let the PX handle it or call the MP's since he says he is not a soldier he would be arrested for trespassing or escorted off post.

Response by PO1 Glenn Cooper made Mar 17 at 2019 12:36 AM

2019-03-17T00:36:09-04:00

Whoa buddy! Here’s a sponge push back the ocean. That guy is anti matter, run!

Response by CPT Lawrence Cichelli made Mar 18 at 2019 7:50 AM

2019-03-18T07:50:30-04:00

Well you demand to see his ID card. If it is military show he's a soldiers, you show him yours, for NCOs & Officers, this means you can give lawful or direct orders. If he is still disrespectful, well you have the authority to arrest him. However, he could be a dependent buying uniform items for his parent, then sorry but you're SOL.

Response by Sgt Josh Lindsey made Mar 18 at 2019 1:54 PM

2019-03-18T13:54:58-04:00

This is a very touchy subject....and it might NOT be worth addressing...NO ONE should have their underwear showing, but he may tell you that it's a (((CULTURE THING))) and accuse you of being racist....its roots are in rap music ....also from prison... showing that you are another prisoners submissive partner.....myself I would NOT talk to him...... if it is bothering you that much.... I would get as much information from him as possible...... licence plate, clothes, weight/ height .etc etc .....contact base POLICE ... he's only gonna get a slap on the wrist.... and he knows this! so he continues to walk around with his underwear out.......I'm sorry if I offended anyone....but this is as truthful as I can get....

Response by Sgt Josh Lindsey made Mar 19 at 2019 12:17 PM

2019-03-19T12:17:31-04:00

Any truthful comments are being deleted.......

Response by LCpl Robert Vanderweg made Mar 29 at 2019 11:47 AM

2019-03-29T11:47:54-04:00

if he,s not a soldier and refuses to provide any information, he should be detained and searched to see if he is in fact military connected. if he is not, arrested and removed from the post at the very least.

Response by PV2 Glen Lewis made Apr 6 at 2019 2:05 PM

2019-04-06T14:05:54-04:00

I'd just bring in the MPs. If you can't restrain him.her from leaving have whoever in charge do so until the arrive.

Response by LTC Andrew Addison made Apr 7 at 2019 10:04 PM

2019-04-07T22:04:32-04:00

He needs a haircut too

Response by SFC Marshal Gleason made Apr 18 at 2019 6:29 PM

2019-04-18T18:29:18-04:00

Call the MPs on his ass. They can demand an ID and /or detain him.

Response by Liz Cain made Apr 22 at 2019 2:56 PM

2019-04-22T14:56:56-04:00

The bigger question: Why is he buying military uniforms? For what purpose? How many others are doing this?

Response by Capt Adam Saxe made Apr 25 at 2019 12:52 AM

2019-04-25T00:52:08-04:00

The picture is really fuzzy. Is the issue that his shorts are hanging low exposing his underwear? To me, that's inappropriate ANYWHERE, especially for a soldier/servicemember on base (or one of his dependents).

But you have to have some type of reg / policy to go off of. You would wish that common sense/decency would be enough. But I'm sure--esp. if we're talking Army--there are either specific regulations or local garrison commander policies that govern civilian clothing wear. They key is to have those facts to back you up when you approach such a person.

As for the possible "security concern" that he was at we called in the Air Force "Military Clothing Sales," I don't think that's the issue. Civilians ventured in there all the time. Not all items were reserved only for military members. His claim not to be a soldier (while purchasing PT gear) is just evidence that he's not very good at coming with excuses.

But if you know he is violating a dress policy--for either off-duty personnel or civilians--and you feel the need to address it . . . and he's completely non-compliant, I guess I would have done one of three things: 1) call the MPs (or AF/USN/USMC equivalent), 2) very sternly (but not proactively) identified myself as a commissioned or non-commissioned officer w/ some degree of authority and insisted on ID with the implication I would 2b) contact his supervisor or parent/spouse or 2c) call the cops or (and this is the ex-AF officer in me perhaps being too kind and gentle) 3) let him know that his rudeness/non-compliance would not go unrecorded and that I while I wasn't going to stop him from leaving, I intended to ask witnesses if they knew who he was and, yes, report the incident to some type of authority, having fully documented his appearance.

A big elephant in the room here is if he was being disrespectful and/or abusive to employees or other patrons.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 25 at 2019 10:20 AM

2019-04-25T10:20:28-04:00

Throat punch him and take his wallet

Response by 1SG Jeffrey Mullett made Apr 25 at 2019 9:58 PM

2019-04-25T21:58:07-04:00

Ask him to see his ID Card...that should answer whether he is a Soldier or not. If he refuses to produce it, then you know he is lying. In that case, he has just violated his Ethics. It's just a matter of finding out who he belongs to. If he is being disrespectful, then you have another issue to take up with him. However, I don't know if detaining him and calling the MPs would be out of the question, it might be a matter of calling them and asking.
We don't need that kind of person in the military.
Also, if he is a dependent, contacting his parents wouldn't be out of the question, to find out if they are aware of the way their child is conducting himself on Post. At the very least, I would want to talk to the service member who sponsors him.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 26 at 2019 1:50 AM

2019-04-26T01:50:56-04:00

If this person that shows no respect for NCOs has no respect for him self and will soon get into a real issue and be reduced in rank or discharge with conditions on his DD214 which will prevent him from getting a great job when this person leaves the service

Response by SPC Paul Hayward made Apr 27 at 2019 1:10 PM

2019-04-27T13:10:56-04:00

if on a military installation all are required to have a dod id card or be escorted by someone who has one, if he doesn't have an id or an escort, he is trespassing on military property and should be detained for the mps

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 27 at 2019 5:12 PM

2019-04-27T17:12:18-04:00

I would chill the eff out; he really could be a civilian who doesn’t know these PTs are only for soldiers.
Is there more to this story? Did he specifically ask for “the new pts” or did he just have some he was purchasing? A better picture to take a closer look at small clues that might suggest this is or isn’t a soldier?
There, to me, are plenty of ways this could be a misunderstanding from what little there is in this post to go off of.

Response by COL William Oseles made Apr 27 at 2019 6:30 PM

2019-04-27T18:30:18-04:00

Follow him to check out and when he shows his military ide to make the purchase ask the clerk to see it and photograph him.

Response by COL Jeff Williams made Apr 27 at 2019 11:19 PM

2019-04-27T23:19:50-04:00

Years ago, I saw a teenage family member at a BK on post. He was wearing a shirt that said F#!k You! on it. I politely walked up to him and asked him to either leave or I would escort him out, or even worse find out who he was and ensure his parents knew he was dressed like this. He left.

Response by CH (CPT)(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 28 at 2019 1:04 AM

2019-04-28T01:04:44-04:00

Army WTF Moments exists for a reason.

Ha ha!

Response by Cpl Dustin Ferris made Apr 28 at 2019 1:37 AM

2019-04-28T01:37:01-04:00

Did any of you consider he may have a nice warm DD-214 blanket... And is 100% t&p thus having base access and being a civilian? Just a possibility... He could also just be a shit bag.

Response by SFC Michael Arabian made Apr 28 at 2019 9:16 AM

2019-04-28T09:16:56-04:00

Before I retired my wife or kids sometimes would go into clothing sales and buy something I needed but couldn’t seen to find the time to make it there, but I can bet they wouldn’t be dressed like this

Response by SGT Mike Adams made May 2 at 2019 1:08 AM

2019-05-02T01:08:22-04:00

Beat his ass. I’m old school

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made May 11 at 2019 3:03 PM

2019-05-11T15:03:22-04:00

Call the MPs. That's indecent exposure by definition. I might try to detain him, one for the disregard, and two for the attempt to purchase a uniform item without showing a CAC.

Response by SGT John Cornelison made May 16 at 2019 1:23 PM

2019-05-16T13:23:47-04:00

Order him to leave the store until properly attired!

Response by Brad Miller made May 19 at 2019 2:00 PM

2019-05-19T14:00:58-04:00

He says he's not a solider -- but he won't show ID? Detain him for arrest. If he's got nothing to hide, why is he hiding it. If he want's PTs and he isn't a service member, let him go to the Army-Navy Surplus store.

Response by 1stSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 22 at 2019 3:22 PM

2019-05-22T15:22:14-04:00

So this post came up in my email in 2019 for some reason. RP has a strange way of recycling old news.
Regardless, the standards exist for a reason, and service members who disregard the standard (read: order) are in violation of lawful orders. When this soldier disrespected the NCO, he should have been run up the flagpol via Section 891 Article 91 of the UCMJ. Loose enforcement leads to substandard discipline, a nuisance in peacetime, a devastating tragedy in war (consider "This Kind of War" by T.R. Fehrenbach as a case study).

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 23 at 2019 12:24 PM

2019-05-23T12:24:35-04:00

Maybe he really isn't a soldier. If he is a simple call to the MP's would fix that. If he isn't i'm sure there are post policies regarding civilian attire on post, again a call to the MP's is the fix.

Response by LCDR Robert Russnogle made May 23 at 2019 2:09 PM

2019-05-23T14:09:16-04:00

Since he is in uniform place him in custody, take him to the brig and verify that he is or is not military

Response by SFC Frank Notaro made May 24 at 2019 7:30 AM

2019-05-24T07:30:21-04:00

Besides this (U) trained Soldier, what's the thoughts out there on (DEPENDANT) dress attire, specifically, the wearing of PAJAMAS, while shopping in the PX and commissary or anywhere on post?
Personally I feel pajama's are an extension of an "under garment" and were designed to be worn in the privacy of your home, not in public! To me wearing Pajama's out in public say's you are too lazy to either get dressed properly, or do your laundry..or maybe your momma or drill sergeant failed to train you properly!.. Please comment!

Response by SSG Mark Metzler made May 25 at 2019 1:05 AM

2019-05-25T01:05:23-04:00

If the person making the adjustment is an officer, he just demands he provide military ID, AD or Dep, he must provide identification, if an NCO, same rules apply. If he refuses, contact MP. It’s that easy.

Response by MSG Reid Zohfeld made May 25 at 2019 3:46 PM

2019-05-25T15:46:56-04:00

Pick and chose what to enforce some now can have a beard with out a profile some can wear their religious garb
The Pandora’s box has been open

Response by LTJG Sandra Smith made May 26 at 2019 3:21 PM

2019-05-26T15:21:35-04:00

If you still need the military active duty ID to purchase uniform items or other military only items, then he'd have it with him; and if so, he should be busted for that behavior, and sent to the brig/stockade, photographed and a statement gotten from the clerk who must have heard and seen the exchange, then refer him for disciplinary action.

Response by SGT Amy Tribou made May 27 at 2019 10:30 AM

2019-05-27T10:30:28-04:00

No, he's out of line, how else is he buying on post if he's not a Soldier? UNLESS he's retired, then he'd still have an ID and have to show it to the cashier. 1. He lied to the NCO. 2. He felt that he was ok and entitled to do so. 3. His dress is not representing the US military in a great manner. 4. It's thuggish. 5. Again, if he is purchasing on a military installation he HAS to have a military ID of some sort. VA ID does not work. Either CAC, dependent, or Retiree. If dependent, why the need for PTs? If retiree, he would have no problem showing it. If CAC, you just made him nervous because now he feels he could be in trouble.

Response by SFC Roger Herron made May 27 at 2019 9:03 PM

2019-05-27T21:03:35-04:00

MP's AP's, that's their job, to enforce installation policies and maintain order.

Response by PFC Brian Hoyt made May 28 at 2019 7:22 PM

2019-05-28T19:22:02-04:00

Call the MP’s. Ps/ How can someone buy anything at PX without military ID. I have a DoD issued card saying, I am Disable vet and have PX privileges etc. Without this ID or similar u can’t get on the base...!

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 28 at 2019 11:24 PM

2019-05-28T23:24:40-04:00

I get it, it’s the rules he should abide by the rules set forth on that installation. However is anyone being hurt, anything hurtful or politically incorrect on the clothing if not, then what does it matter no one is being hurt. He’s on post in a military and clothing store he obviously had to show ID to purchase anything. I was on a deployment in Kuwait I couldn’t find my PT shoes that morning and was running late, I just grabbed the first pair of shoes I put my eyes on. They just happen to be my basketball shoes, I put them on proceeded to PT went through all of PT no one said a thing. I get to the DFAC and some CW3 with a hard on comes up to me and says you know you’re out of regs, you can’t wear those shoes with PT’s. I explained to him that I just came from PT these were the first shoes I saw and he just continues to ignore me until I got fed up and walked away. Funny part is he got dinged by some COL who saw the whole thing and he got chewed out. Moral of the story if it’s not your soldier stay out of it, there are people doing way worse on active duty than to be dinged on personal attire choice.

Response by CWO2 Shelby DuBois made May 29 at 2019 10:09 AM

2019-05-29T10:09:06-04:00

If you see something say something...is a civilian lament. In the military...if you see something DO something. Passing the buck or hoping someone else handles it is not leadership. Doing something may be contacting the MP's and waiting and let them handle it since it's in a public area, or if the situation dictates, take immediate action. It's better to explain to your boss your suspicions than to let a soldier in civvies get away with being being a smart ass, disrespectful and deceitful soldier.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 29 at 2019 2:51 PM

2019-05-29T14:51:22-04:00

I would probably not say anything and let him look like an idiot. Save yourself the grief, you only look like a tool if you make a scene. For those saying call the MPs...over baggy pants. Get real. He’s obviously not going anywhere.

Response by SSG Shawn Mcfadden made Jun 2 at 2019 3:18 PM

2019-06-02T15:18:53-04:00

If he's not a Soldier, then WTF is he doing in clothing and sales?! RAT THAT FUCKING PRICK OUT!!!!

Response by 1SG Michael Farrell made Jun 3 at 2019 3:57 PM

2019-06-03T15:57:26-04:00

Trying to buy GI stuff illegally? Being disruptive and disrespectful? MPs. Could have weapons, could have drugs, totally out of line; why is he there?

Response by SFC James Beasley made Jun 7 at 2019 8:56 AM

2019-06-07T08:56:32-04:00

Ask to see his ID.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 11 at 2019 2:30 PM

2019-06-11T14:30:19-04:00

If he claimed not to be a soldier, ask for his sponsor's name and phone number, or unit. Contact the sponsor. If not ask to see his dependent ID card and the other information. Need ID to purchase at Clothing Sales.

Response by SMSgt Sheila Berg made Jul 1 at 2019 5:42 PM

2019-07-01T17:42:48-04:00

Send a picture to Command Chief to follow up.

Response by MSgt Don Dobbs made Aug 5 at 2019 10:07 AM

2019-08-05T10:07:05-04:00

I have had an experience very much like this one. Place the individual under apprehension for failing to obey a legal and lawful order and detain him until MP's arrive. Since he claims to be non-military force may be used to detain the individual. My particular incident the individual was forcibly detained until the SP's arrived. He was harassing female trainees and refused to obey my order to cease and desist. The individual was an E3 Airman 1st Class. He was court-martialed and undesirably discharged. Of course this was many years ago and regs change besides I'm now a retired lazy old man and would choose to let the SP's or MP's take care of business.

Response by MSgt Fred Moore made Aug 8 at 2019 8:08 AM

2019-08-08T08:08:11-04:00

You I’d him and if he is military you treat him according to what rules we have outlined under the JAG regulations. If he is not military, he breaking the base regulations of being in military clothing store

Response by MSgt Joseph Holness made Aug 8 at 2019 11:38 AM

2019-08-08T11:38:30-04:00

Kinda hard to "enforce anything" these days, be it on a Military Base or in Civie-World, because you might "offend somebody" in the process. "G*d-Forbid" you do anything to disturb the fragile world of the generations of Snowflakes this country is plagued by!

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made Aug 8 at 2019 12:21 PM

2019-08-08T12:21:26-04:00

Even though the picture looks hazy can someone tell me what’s wrong with his attire?

Response by SPC Christopher Perrien made Aug 9 at 2019 9:52 AM

2019-08-09T09:52:30-04:00

Don't worry about it. If he buy clothing there , he is either active or disabled vet or a Cvilian dependant. Active you could bust him for disrespect , if he is a disabled vet you're barking up the wrong tree. Civilian, he can't by stuff there, don't know what regs govern any sanctions for doing so, actually it would also be on the cashier as well.

Response by PO2 Andrew Kendl made Aug 9 at 2019 10:22 AM

2019-08-09T10:22:30-04:00

So was he a soldier, airman, seaman or civilian? Well it does not matter and base police should have been called, he is clearly in violation of the UCMJ and I am sure general orders. And if he was a civilian, he should have been removed period!

Response by SCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 10 at 2019 7:59 PM

2019-08-10T19:59:47-04:00

That wannabe thug should be instantly reminded that he is bound to and by the UCMJ on a 24/7 basis!!!

Response by SPC Paul Adams made Aug 11 at 2019 9:45 PM

2019-08-11T21:45:17-04:00

Do you really care? Does this keep you up late at night wondering if you could have made a difference in this young mans life if only you knew if he was a service member or not? Maybe you are a poor NCO if you are unable to figure out on your own if he is in the military or not. Bet when he pays for whatever he's shopping for he will have to show his ID and at that time youll be able to see if he is a member or dependent at which time feel free to let the rage of a million 1sgts descend on him in a manner fitting a soldier who walks on the grass.

Response by SPC Melanie Vancegonzalez made Aug 12 at 2019 10:28 PM

2019-08-12T22:28:07-04:00

If he is not a soldier than what is he doing there? If he is a spouse or relative of a sponsor than he has an ID. Usually you have to show ID to buy items on post. If he is not a soldier and has no ID then he shouldn't be on post and that's grounds to call the MPs. The MPs can then verify who he is and contact his unit.

Response by SSgt Scott Schwerman made Aug 15 at 2019 10:14 AM

2019-08-15T10:14:42-04:00

To me it all depends on how the person reacts to me. I personally would go up to them, tell them they are in the wrong and why. If they act like a douche, I kick them out.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 15 at 2019 11:34 AM

2019-08-15T11:34:46-04:00

1. Retrain the NCOs on general military authority.
2. Retrain the NCOs on how to make an on-the-spot correction.
3. I'd identify myself, and present my ID if not in uniform. I'd then request his ID. If he provided it, on-the-spot correction, and he'd correct it. If he refused to ID, there would be an immediate need for the MPs.

Response by SFC Wren Thomas made Aug 29 at 2019 5:45 AM

2019-08-29T05:45:37-04:00

what ghe hell was he doing there in the first place if he wasn't military ?

Response by SGT(P) Troy Williams made Sep 12 at 2019 1:04 PM

2019-09-12T13:04:03-04:00

Call the MPs and let them deal with him, if he's not a soldier, then he can't purchase those items, if he was one, then he would have to show his military I'D to purchase the items and should be disciplined for looking like a shitbag in public on a military base.

Response by CPL Kevin Jones made Sep 13 at 2019 8:37 AM

2019-09-13T08:37:52-04:00

Stupid clothing choice. Handle situation properly however. All this detain him until MPs get there talk is talk from those who don't know anything about detaining someone from a Law Enforcement perspective. Call MPs and give them information or point them to the individual. Done.

If the individual turns out to be a civilian then you have opened up a whole new can of worms.

There are ways to stop this behavior. This should be handled by store management. They can request that the individual make changes to his clothing inside the store or receive no service and then be required to leave the store due to Health standards. Easy.

Response by SGT Charles Bartell made Sep 15 at 2019 1:47 PM

2019-09-15T13:47:31-04:00

some DOD and contract workers wear military clothing to work in. Sad to say most bases do not have a set policy for them not to wear clothing.
This person may be one of them. Or he could be a dependent. Either way I would wait for the Casher to ask for the I.D. card. Since DOD and Contractors are not allowed to buy military clothing. If he were one of them that should be to end of it.
If a Dependent I.D. is shown I believe they are allowed to buy just about anything.
If this is the case. The Sponsor info should be taken by the casher. The sponsor and there command should be advised of the actions of the Dependent.
We all have heard of the dependent that caused a promotion to be lost by how they act.
If the sponsor does not know they can not fix the dependent.
Worst of all this could just be a shit bag that needs some good old wall to wall counseling.
For most that has worked well.

Response by Sgt Neil Foster made Sep 23 at 2019 9:20 PM

2019-09-23T21:20:54-04:00

26 years ago. our base was having a Commander's Annual Facilities Inspection (CAFI). During our briefings, NCOs were told to be on the lookout for AFR 35-10 (uniform) violations. I was in the chow hall with another NCO and saw an A1C (E-3) IN UNIFORM, wearing a hat indoors, AND his hair was almost completely covering his ears.

The other NCO and I approached his table. I politely told him that wearing his hat indoors was in violation of AFR 35-10. I also pointed out that his hair was also in violation of AFR 35-10, and suggested that he stop by the barber shop before reporting for duty, as Officers and NCOs were told to be on the lookout for violations.

His response was "GET OUT OF MY F***ING FACE. YOU CAN'T TELL ME WHAT THE F*** TO DO!"

Since he was wearing his hat, I knew what squadron he was in. Later that evening, I saw his XO on the flightline and told him what transpired. He responded "Thank you, Sergeant. I will go take care of this immediately."

A few days later, this Airman (now an E-2) came up to me and said "You f***ing a**hole. I got an Article 15 because of you."

I told him that "I didn't make you get sh*t. I even tried to politely warn you, but you chose to be insubordinate."

Something tells me that this wasn't his first problem with authority... and likely not the last!

Response by SPC Greg Campbell made Sep 26 at 2019 10:41 PM

2019-09-26T22:41:24-04:00

its that bad? in the 80 we pulled up our pants. all me were told not to do was mix civies with military clothes. wow

Response by MAJ Jeff Coulter made Oct 5 at 2019 10:48 AM

2019-10-05T10:48:40-04:00

Call the MPs.

Response by SSG Robert Perrotto made Oct 7 at 2019 3:31 AM

2019-10-07T03:31:10-04:00

If said individual states he is not a Soldier, then he is the Dependent of one, and has a dependent ID card. He is required to produce that ID card upon request, and to comply with post policy letters, regulations, and instructions. These are not open to debate, or non compliance. There is a LIMIT to what is culturally acceptable attire and conduct when on military bases, and baring ones underwear is one of those limits, I would also tell a female on base about the tops of her G-string above the hip line of her jeans or shorts. You can wear and choose your attire as you see fit, off post. On post, you are governed by the Military. I also saw someone mention that this person could be sponsored by a SM, correct me if I am wrong, but are not sponsored visitors required to be escorted by the sponsor for the duration of their visit?

All that being said, I do wonder if this individual was asked for the reasons being stated, and not because of the individuals demographic. Sure, he is violated the post dress code, but do the NCO's enforce that standard equally, would be a valid question to ask.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 21 at 2019 1:56 PM

2019-10-21T13:56:13-04:00

Demand to see his ID card.

Response by SA Ronald Moss made Nov 10 at 2019 7:23 PM

2019-11-10T19:23:59-05:00

Personally, I never kept or wore civies on or off base when in the Coast Guard. I was proud to represent my service anywhere and even on eave wore my uniform everywhere. When my ship USCGC BIBB, WPG-31 was in Bermuda in 1962 we were only allowed civies ashore, but that was the one and only time during my service, I wasn't in uniform.

Response by LTC Margo Peel made Nov 10 at 2019 10:20 PM

2019-11-10T22:20:32-05:00

wow, just wow.....................

Response by LTC Gene Moser made Nov 11 at 2019 11:09 AM

2019-11-11T11:09:52-05:00

Was the person in uniform or civilian clothes? Is it possible that the individual was retired? In any event, how could he buy something at Clothing Sales without an ID card or an official letter authorizing him to purchase something for a soldier who could not go there himself? Does the installation have a regulation on appropriate civilian attire? I know my mother always wore a dress or a skirt and blouse on post and it was expected that she do so. Now I see people in the commissary wearing all kinds of stuff.

Response by SPC Tim LaFountain made Nov 11 at 2019 7:52 PM

2019-11-11T19:52:20-05:00

Let the MP's deal with it, that's their job. From what information I read in this post if he isn't a soldier he cant make a purchase at a base store.

Response by Maj Gary Gault made Nov 12 at 2019 1:14 PM

2019-11-12T13:14:15-05:00

Teach him some "John Wayne" lessons in courtesy! Demand respect or clock him!

Response by SPC Steve Bright made Nov 12 at 2019 3:41 PM

2019-11-12T15:41:50-05:00

I read through these and here’s my two cents: assuming you’re on an Army base and he’s clearly stated he is not Military I’d tell the PX to refuse his purchase w out identification.
Following that I’d call the MPs and tell him to stand fast. If he refuses, I’d hold his ass down.
Here’s the rational: if he’s active duty his command needs to know. If he’s a dependa then his spouse or whatever needs to be held accountable for his dress. If he attempts to leave then there’s reason to believe he should not be on base to begin with.

Pretty simple.

Response by SSG Jerry Hardy made Nov 12 at 2019 7:40 PM

2019-11-12T19:40:06-05:00

Call the MP's, report a probable intruder on base.......

Response by SGT William Benson made Nov 13 at 2019 5:13 PM

2019-11-13T17:13:09-05:00

Call the MPs, summon a posse of NCOs... All good "by the book" answers...
But let's take a look at the elephant in the room: Why the hell does this young soldier seem to think that the rules don't apply to him?
Where is the failure of leadership, because that is, indeed, what it is... Once upon a time, a young trooper would get bounced from pillar to post by any Sergeant Major walking by (can you imagine the response by SgtMaj Plumley, or SgtMaj Daly?)
So, somewhere along the line, this young man was given "permission" to ignore good order and discipline, and he has decided that he doesn't want to be a soldier, instead opting to do things his way, and be an individual...

Response by SSG Doug Terrel made Nov 13 at 2019 8:00 PM

2019-11-13T20:00:28-05:00

Either he's not a Soldier and making an illegal purchase, or he is a Soldier and he's in direct violation of article 134 and article 89. I wish there would've been a decent NCO around when this was going down, they'd have hooked you up, Sir.

Response by HN Chris Robinette made Nov 14 at 2019 2:28 PM

2019-11-14T14:28:44-05:00

Contact the MPs and let them handle him.

Response by HN Chris Robinette made Nov 14 at 2019 2:29 PM

2019-11-14T14:29:19-05:00

Contact the MPs and let them handle the kid.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 15 at 2019 7:57 AM

2019-11-15T07:57:55-05:00

Call the MPs

Response by SFC George Simons made Nov 15 at 2019 5:48 PM

2019-11-15T17:48:57-05:00

If he was not a service member he should have been escorted by his sponsor. While entry on a base/fort may be open use of commissary or PX/BX/NX are limited to service members are clothing sales. Food Court services are civilian run and owned.

Response by PV2 Bob Ondown made Nov 15 at 2019 11:24 PM

2019-11-15T23:24:44-05:00

Maybe he is buying a belt.

Response by SPC Mark Dorn made Nov 16 at 2019 10:57 AM

2019-11-16T10:57:19-05:00

The complaints are coming from whites. Who ready solution is to castigate minorities and then call the MP’s as a solution. Even today the majority of minority soldiers are still excluded but held to a higher standard than whites.

Response by Andy Holland made Nov 17 at 2019 4:14 AM

2019-11-17T04:14:28-05:00

Why TF would you dog someone over this. He's wearing polyester shorts and a backwards baseball cap, aren't there more important things for you to do with your free time than tell another grown man how to dress himself?

Response by Jerry Rivas made Nov 17 at 2019 9:15 PM

2019-11-17T21:15:13-05:00

Too bad you cant shoot him in the ass.

Response by Sgt Ivan Boatwright made Nov 18 at 2019 8:57 AM

2019-11-18T08:57:46-05:00

It is time to call the military police to investigate. Follow him to where ever he goes while waiting. Cell phones can keep you in contact. I caught some thieves exiting a neighbors home as I was driving by. I got their tag number called the police and followed them and chased them when they tried to get away until police arrive. I guess I chased them 15 miles. They were two young men so be prepared for trouble, however, I had a rather large pit bull sitting in my passenger seat. I believe he was the reason they did not challenge me.

Response by CW2 Bruce Greiner made Nov 18 at 2019 10:22 AM

2019-11-18T10:22:18-05:00

We have come a long way since military police would stand at the door of the PX/BX/Commissary and issue citations for uniform violations and try to enforce the "proper" civilian attire rule. Which leads me to a cautionary tale of civilian attire. At a base PX in the western US, the base commander's spouse observed a person wearing, what they considered revealing clothing. They spoke to the person and got told that since they were civilian and dress rules did not apply. At which point the spouse told the civilian to report the next day to the Base Commander's office with their sponsor. The next day spouse and Commander are waiting in the office and in walked the civilian with her sponsor who outranked the base commander by a star. This resulted in the "frank and open" discussion only Generals can have and the next day the signs regarding proper attire were removed from the base.

Response by 1SG James Kelly made Dec 1 at 2019 3:14 PM

2019-12-01T15:14:46-05:00

Tell the cashier to call the MP's; hold him till they arrive (he might be a terrorist).
Fuck with me, I fuck back, asshole.

Response by MGySgt Rick Tyrrell made Dec 1 at 2019 3:33 PM

2019-12-01T15:33:50-05:00

Simple notify military police to guide him in the correct direction.

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 2 at 2019 6:42 AM

2019-12-02T06:42:54-05:00

Honesty He could be buying PT clothes for a family member, never know, either way, if he’s being disrespectful they can kick him off post, if he’s a soldier proper chain of command, contact his NCO/CO, point is don’t be a Jack A. Be responsible and Respectful, never know who’s watching,

Response by SCPO Edward Westerdahl made Dec 16 at 2019 2:23 AM

2019-12-16T02:23:01-05:00

As a retired Naval Service E-8, I have seen things like this on bases. If he is IN the BX, he has to have an ID card.
I tend to be more relaxed on civvies, except in the case of profane or illegal attire (e.g., Flight Jacket with civvies).
I think I would try to contact the BX Manager to have that official see his ID card. Even though the Major has positional authority over this person, he/she does not have authority to force him to show his ID Card; the Manager can do that, then refer him to the MPs.

Response by LTJG Sandra Smith made Dec 17 at 2019 5:55 PM

2019-12-17T17:55:11-05:00

If that's a chronic problem, perhaps it's time to bring in the UCMJ, and a bit of official disciplinary action. He agreed to abide by the rules when he took the oath, same as all the rest of us.

Response by SPC Brian Pritchard/Hall made Dec 17 at 2019 8:07 PM

2019-12-17T20:07:22-05:00

Write him up! But I’m old school 95B and I despise a lot of the things I hear about and see from today’s soldiers.

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 19 at 2019 9:02 AM

2019-12-19T09:02:22-05:00

Pull his pants up like a toddler and ask hin where is mommy or daddy is.

Response by COL Marty Badegian made Dec 19 at 2019 9:36 PM

2019-12-19T21:36:46-05:00

Disrespect of officer or nco is a violation under UCMJ. If violation is occurring Of an individual believed to be military, it would be warranted to have MPs make contact and ID. If military, make MP report and deal through COc

Response by SGT Robert Andrews made Dec 20 at 2019 6:24 AM

2019-12-20T06:24:25-05:00

Id must be presented purchasing on post.. How did he get on post? What is he doing attempting to purchase PT? Who is he with sponsor? Alert MPs to questionable behavior such as this... better to question it than something happen later.

Response by SGM Donald Scott made Dec 20 at 2019 3:00 PM

2019-12-20T15:00:22-05:00

I would suggest calling the MPs or contracted security force to have him removed. If he is claiming that he is not a Soldier, he has no need to be purchasing the Army PT Uniform. SGM Retired

Response by MSG James Atwood made Dec 20 at 2019 4:22 PM

2019-12-20T16:22:54-05:00

Way back in the last century I had to follow a dress code in high school. For boys: all male students wearing a shirt with split sides had to have the shirt tucked into their pants, unless the shirt was meant to be worn outside the pants such as a polo shirt or sweatshirt. All male students had to wear a belt with no more than 3" of the tip past the buckle. Jeans were allowed as long as they fit properly. No sneakers unless they were on the gym floor or involved in outdoor sports activities. The same rule applied to shorts. Shoes had to be free of dirt, mud, etc. and fit properly. Western style boots were acceptable. Heel taps were allowed. Proper haircuts had to be maintained with no radical styles such as shaved heads, and hair length was allowed as long as it did not exceed the bottom of the earlobe. No headwear inside the buildings. No radical screen prints or decals were allowed on any part of the clothing. For girls: all female students had to wear skirts or dresses unless the outside temperature dipped below 10 degrees. Provocative clothing such as low-cut tops, skirt splits, and bare midriffs was unacceptable. Many of the male rules applied to females so I won't list them here. No, it wasn't a military academy. It was a plain run-of-the-mill country high school. We students knew the rules and never thought much about it. That's just the way it was. Do I think that the same rules should apply to soldiers today? No, times have changed but there have to be lines drawn at some point. Installation commanders should determine acceptable civilian attire based on climate, base/post/unit missions, etc.

Response by SFC Greg Tucker made Dec 21 at 2019 12:34 PM

2019-12-21T12:34:49-05:00

It’s idiotic how these guys who wear their pants down showing their underwear? Is he trolling for the same sex? Because I don’t know any woman who would find this appealing.

Response by Cpl Timothy White made Dec 21 at 2019 1:07 PM

2019-12-21T13:07:04-05:00

I’m am a disabled vet. And I still dress respectful when I enter the VA hospital or medical facilities!

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 21 at 2019 1:32 PM

2019-12-21T13:32:28-05:00

Probably getting something for his wife

Response by SFC David Xanten made Dec 21 at 2019 1:52 PM

2019-12-21T13:52:46-05:00

Easy, call the MP's. If he is buying something at the Commissary or PX he MUST have an ID. He could be a Dependant or a DA Civilian, but in all cases, he has to have an ID.

Response by SGT Lewis Ray Rains made Dec 21 at 2019 6:07 PM

2019-12-21T18:07:37-05:00

Pull-up his pants or, respectfully, LEAVE THE PREMISES, NOW!!! If he/she refuses, CALL THE M.P.'S, &wait for the "show"!!!!

Response by SFC Dennis Yancy made Dec 21 at 2019 6:30 PM

2019-12-21T18:30:44-05:00

Call MPs

Response by SFC Wren Thomas made Dec 21 at 2019 6:36 PM

2019-12-21T18:36:25-05:00

Call the MP's...they are trained in these kinds of situations. KIn mhy day, if you were in a military store, be it the PX/Commissary, or whatever, you still have to follow the rules.

Response by SGT Joseph Dutton made Dec 21 at 2019 10:36 PM

2019-12-21T22:36:29-05:00

Wither a service person or a civilian, the manager should respect tasteful attire and enforce distasteful attire. If one is wearing distasteful attire then should be correct and if not then removed. Also what is a civilian doing in a Clothing & Sales store. At my local base the C & S store will not let a civilian purchase items and must show prof that one is active, reservist, retired, ROTC, JROTC or a veteran if in civilian attire. Another note that parents must enforce proper attire at all times wither on base or in town because they are a reflection upon to their parents and Ambassadors of the military & United States wither CONUS or OCONUS

Response by SGT Charles Bartell made Dec 21 at 2019 10:50 PM

2019-12-21T22:50:41-05:00

To bad we can not go old school on Shig bags like this.
Wall to Wall counseling was a great tool if used correctly.
Now some of you out their may think that this is a race thing.
It is not I have seen Black , White, Hispanic / Latino, And even some asians dress like this.
It is funny that this started in Prisons by Gays letting the other prisoners know they were available.

Response by SGT Rachel H made Dec 22 at 2019 2:35 AM

2019-12-22T02:35:56-05:00

Without an AD or reserve he can look all he want but can't they will not sell him. Unless something change. If that's him in the pic..he look a hot mess! Smh!

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 23 at 2019 2:40 AM

2019-12-23T02:40:52-05:00

Simple issue if he does not comply with direction with senior NCOs about his dress instead of getting into a confutation with this person use your smart phone take a photo its timed stamped in your phone find his command and let them handle it . Not to day you cant nip this behavior in the bud but sometimes its better to speak to his command. This will have a lasting consequences for this individual

Response by LCpl Cody Collins made Dec 23 at 2019 7:21 AM

2019-12-23T07:21:34-05:00

I would have called the MP's and had him detained for security reasons. Then the MP's could ask him to show some I.D. reminding him that a military installation is different than a civilian shopping mall. If found that he really is a civilian then the military a background check would need to be done to figure out what military family he belong to, and or what branch of service he's part of or If he were visiting relatives that are in the military. They will Be contacted immediately and informed that their relative was detained Due to non conforming to base regulations pertaining to civilian attire and Disregarding orders to show identification. Now if it Turned out that he is military he should be disciplined big time for giving false and or misleading statements and impersonating a civilian, Either way hes toast for being disrespectful And insubordinate To higher authorities when questioned about his attire.

Response by Sgt Dan Catlin made Dec 23 at 2019 10:49 AM

2019-12-23T10:49:15-05:00

If he is on a military base or installation he is required to provide ID on demand. If all he provides you with is a drivers license, have the MP's run his name. If he refuses to provide ID they can arrest him. That'll settle the "Im not a soldier" issue. As to attire, the base commander writes an order setting the standard and everyone on base follows it. If he is a soldier and he refuses to comply, you write him up. If a civilian he should be escorted off base and told not to return. If a dependent living on base the issue can be taken up with his parents who should either correct the situation or face losing their BAQ. But the first thing you need to do is realize he is the one at a disadvantage and you have a job to do, then decide to do it.

Response by SCPO Ken Badoian made Dec 25 at 2019 10:59 AM

2019-12-25T10:59:34-05:00

Maybe you should worry about the military bearing in uniform. I recently have been on a couple of military establishment and many of the troops, except Marines look like class clowns. Unless someone's butt crack or boobs (I am allow to write that) is showing belay the BS and just enjoy the view. A suggestion and observation about the way the person looks will go much further than the hard ass approach. I am a retired SCPO and a hard ass but stop charging wind mills people. If you think a person is not who/whom he or she is call the military or civilian police. Treat them how you would want to be treated. Most times it not their fault but the COC's fault.

Response by SPC Julio L R. made Dec 26 at 2019 8:57 AM

2019-12-26T08:57:49-05:00

I'm very sure there is a Post Regulation as to this. Call the MP's and have them FI this individual and deal with respectfully and respectively.

Response by SrA Salvador Ruiz made Jan 11 at 2020 12:50 PM

2020-01-11T12:50:29-05:00

Wrestle him to the ground as an enemy combatant and hold him for the MP's or just watch him and call the MP's...your choice. Now since he is a civilian (as he states)...how did he get on base?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 20 at 2020 11:30 PM

2020-01-20T23:30:16-05:00

I’m sure this will be an unpopular opinion but I don’t really care. Some of you all take this stuff to seriously. If you were respectful to him and told him to change his appearance then great, he’s a jerk. In reality more than likely you were over zealous and though those stripes on your chest mean something more than they do. You probably were a jerk, and therefore got ignored. I’m not saying that’s right, but I’ve got to wonder if you are the type who wears a uniform to the airport too, just so everyone knows you’re in the military. Just my thoughts. Calm down, unless there’s bullets coming at your head, it’s really not worth getting pissed about.

Response by SSG Alfred Woods made Jan 21 at 2020 7:24 AM

2020-01-21T07:24:08-05:00

First, the individual, is the responsibility of whoever brought him\her onto the installation. Also, the individual can not shop in a BX\PX, when wearing civilian attire, without showing proper Military Identifications. An employee, may ask to see his\her identification, prior to their purchase and tell him\her they can't purchase their items and for reasons. The representative of said person(s), should also have been with the individual, inside of the store. Lastly, there should be no reason for an employee to argue with a shopper. Never force an escalation of any situation. The employee can ask the shopper(s) to leave or call the MP's. I would never think to have Courtesy Patrol (CP), to come to such a situation. CP's may not be as fluent in the law as what we would expect an MP to be in handling a situation of such. I would think, CP's are use to enforce standards in soldiers on post, crowd control and maybe perform escorts as a courtesy.

Response by GySgt Robert Otto made Jan 21 at 2020 8:58 AM

2020-01-21T08:58:20-05:00

Then call the base MP's to have him questioned and disciplined. If nothing is done then it will become more common and harder to control.

Response by 1SG Patrick McKelvey made Jan 21 at 2020 8:59 AM

2020-01-21T08:59:19-05:00

Ran into this right before I retired while on leave and shopping at a clothing and sales across country from my duty station and simply told them to pull their damn pants up. They leaned in and raised their voices as if. Told them point blank no one was impressed, get in compliance and knock off the bullshit... lo and behold they did, grudgingly to be sure, but they paid and left. Hard looks mean nothing to me so I went back to my shopping. Into the mix stepped an SGT in uniform who had watched from a few feet away the entire time. To my amazement she asked why I had 'harrassed' those 2 soldiers and asked for MY ID?!? She was not prepared to see 1SG on my ID card nor my attitude towards her sullen reference to ' harrasment" I guess. I then asked her why she had allowed 2 soldiers to act in that manner. Her reply? " Well....they're not in my unit. " Then she walked away. Not a good sign for our organization. One man's opinion.

Response by CW4 Steven Bowyer made Jan 21 at 2020 9:57 AM

2020-01-21T09:57:30-05:00

You could be bold and ask the cashier to delay the transaction and ask for the store manager. Brief the manager on the situation. If the individual provides a dependents ID, fine. He is just a jerk. If he walks before providing his military ID (which I predict he would), then you made your point. If he was disrespectful and if he threw a tantrum and walked without showing an ID, then you might see if a courtesy patrol was around. But, like a policeman, there's never one around when you need one. The other option is just stand close to see which ID he provides and develop the situation from there. The most simple course would have been to get his license plate number if he drives away and then contact the post registration. However, since post registration (a useful tool) is a thing of the past, you can't do that. Which course of action you choose is based upon the other customers and what kind of scene you would think appropriate for the situation. But I don't think anyone should be able to disrespect policy, inquiries or corrections and get a pass.

Response by MSG Ramon Figueroa made Jan 25 at 2020 10:20 AM

2020-01-25T10:20:03-05:00

You can get the person out of the ghetto but cannot the ghetto out of the person, I would had calle the MPs on his ass,

Response by SGT Mathew Husen made Jan 25 at 2020 7:36 PM

2020-01-25T19:36:23-05:00

Could be a spouse

Response by SSgt John Wise made Jan 25 at 2020 8:24 PM

2020-01-25T20:24:57-05:00

Well Maj, use your weight and get your senior leadership involved perhaps also the MPs

Response by SSG Richard Relyea made Jan 26 at 2020 2:09 PM

2020-01-26T14:09:00-05:00

Worry about something more relevant than how someone wears their pants in line with the fashion trends they follow. Your not their mom. Go worry about your soldier that is depressed or go work on your failing marriage or here is an idea better yourself as a soldier with school. Pathetic post

Response by SFC Ken Heise made Jan 26 at 2020 11:30 PM

2020-01-26T23:30:44-05:00

Response by SFC Ken Heise made Jan 26 at 2020 11:31 PM

2020-01-26T23:31:10-05:00

Response by PO1 Sharon Anderson made Feb 25 at 2020 6:00 AM

2020-02-25T06:00:04-05:00

removed from base...period

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 25 at 2020 11:50 AM

2020-02-25T11:50:58-05:00

What if his wife/mom is in the military and asked him to pick up some pts for her?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 26 at 2020 5:35 PM

2020-02-26T17:35:49-05:00

Well as a Major you can have him show you his ID if he refused the order you can talk to the cashier at the clothing store and have them confiscate his id when he made his purchase. Call the MP and have them on the way.

Response by MSgt Stephen Watson made Feb 26 at 2020 11:05 PM

2020-02-26T23:05:24-05:00

Apprehension or, if the two NCO's don't the military presence, follow him, get his tag number and track him to his unit and file charges. Marines don't have that issue...

Response by SFC John Fourquet made Feb 26 at 2020 11:24 PM

2020-02-26T23:24:19-05:00

Hold/detain the SOB, and call the MPs.

Response by CPO Jeffrey Bohemier made Feb 28 at 2020 1:34 AM

2020-02-28T01:34:14-05:00

The picture isn’t very good so it’s hard to see what is wrong with his pants. Regardless, the key here is whether or not he’s in the military. He could be a dependent. In that case, there’s not much the NCO’s can do. It’s up to the military Exchange to enforce their own dress code. If he’s a civilian, as annoying as it can be, he has no obligation or requirement to follow request or orders given by any military member regardless of that member’s rank.

Response by SPC Cherry Allen made Feb 28 at 2020 12:39 PM

2020-02-28T12:39:59-05:00

He probably wanted to buy military gear for a rap video. But sir if that's your intention, pls.go to the local party supply store and buy a clown outfit. That might be more befitting!

Response by PO1 George White made Feb 28 at 2020 7:24 PM

2020-02-28T19:24:45-05:00

Call the base MP's and hold him there until they arrived to question him and/or arrest him.

Response by MAJ Hugh Blanchard made Mar 1 at 2020 8:31 PM

2020-03-01T20:31:47-05:00

Demand that he identify himself to prove he is entitled to buy items in the clothing sales store at the PX. If not, call the MP's as a security threat, i.e., an unenitled person trying to buy military uniform items. If he does have a military ID and still wants to cop such a big attitude, then call the MP's for disorderly conduct and failure to obey a lawful order. After he's been taken into custody, the MP's will contact his chain of command.

Response by SSG Dave Johnston made Mar 4 at 2020 11:15 PM

2020-03-04T23:15:19-05:00

… as to my "Two Cents" worth of opinion.... Ever since the end of the Vietnam Offensive, some bunch of over educated "Annalists" came to the conclusion that the DOD and its subordinate Departments should become more like mis"Fortune 500" companies, instead of a Highly disciplined killing machine it was... thus the "Kinder, Gentler" Armed Forces has led to this

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 16 at 2020 10:45 AM

2020-03-16T10:45:27-04:00

Let’s break this down for the people that didn’t read this how I read it; This Soldier( assuming he was a Soldier without seeing any ID or recognizing him from a unit) was Asked (not told or suggested) to fix his pants; Was looking to purchase new PTs ( Which Veterans can do or dependents can try to do) Was not receptive of orders ( I thought only Commissioned Officers can give orders and it did say asked in the beginning not told) . Now I don’t know how much of this statement here is factual but it doesn’t completely fits UCMJ just off what was stated; And I know NCOs want to hammer Soldiers without fully knowing all the facts or personally being there but where is the common sense or did that go out the window

Response by SSG James Vineyard made Mar 24 at 2020 10:32 AM

2020-03-24T10:32:23-04:00

request his id... by regulation you have to show your id when it is requested. Then you can decide what to do from there. I'm a retiree, and that shouldn't of been tolerated.

Response by CPL Devin Noffsinger made Mar 26 at 2020 3:25 AM

2020-03-26T03:25:23-04:00

MP's and possibly BN SDNCO report.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2020 3:21 PM

2020-03-26T15:21:36-04:00

Lol who cares

Response by SPC Matthew Dresner made Mar 28 at 2020 12:57 AM

2020-03-28T00:57:52-04:00

that's why it's nice to make friends with at least one MP. Let them play (oops, I mean deal) with them. I love to hear a good story.

Response by MAJ Tex Hall made Mar 28 at 2020 4:31 PM

2020-03-28T16:31:51-04:00

Well he has to produce ID to make the purchase. That would be an easy catch there.

Response by PO1 Michael Bruner made Mar 30 at 2020 10:30 AM

2020-03-30T10:30:53-04:00

That's a fine line sometimes. I spent my first 5 months in Hawaii at the barracks at Pearl Harbor. One morning after a mid, I went to the galley for morning chow when some MS told me I needed to shave. I'd just shaved about 10 hours earlier, and I have a thick beard. I wasn't about to shave again just so i could eat & hit the rack.

Response by SP6 Dick Brighthaupt made Mar 30 at 2020 8:34 PM

2020-03-30T20:34:29-04:00

Isn't that against the law? Especially now with rampant terrorism?

Response by SFC Terry Bryant made Apr 6 at 2020 12:31 PM

2020-04-06T12:31:16-04:00

I have ran into these, "people" many times on post. Many times they will be family members of Military personnel. Brother n laws, sister n laws, dads, uncles, what have you. Remember EVERY SINGLE PERSON on a Military base is required to show an ID at the request of anyone in uniform or any full time civilian employee. While many bases differ in security protocols, every Military base has minimal security measures in place. That includes the right to search and seizure without warrant, or even probable cause. Meaning if you are on a Military installation you are subject to being searched and detained without a reason. You have no constitutional rights essentially on a base and rightfully so. If you cannot adhere to the rules and regulations that were put into place for the safety and security of the Soldiers, Airmen, Marines or what ever the case, stay the hell off. To me it is that simple.

Response by SFC Zohn Tennyson made Apr 15 at 2020 3:25 PM

2020-04-15T15:25:36-04:00

Uniformed or not, he's still a soldier. If he isn't, he damn sure shouldn't be buying any uniform issue. I'd ask for his ID and call the MP's if he won't give it.

Response by CPO John Moore made Apr 21 at 2020 1:52 PM

2020-04-21T13:52:02-04:00

I was in military law enforcement: I would have informed him in a polite way if you don't show me some ID you will be detained as a terror suspect until we can find out who you are and why you are on my base. case closed.

Response by SSgt Daniel d'Errico made May 16 at 2020 12:42 PM

2020-05-16T12:42:09-04:00

This subject has long been a problem in all branchs of the military. But it begins in basic training. Soldiers, sailors, etc, should be taught that dressing like a slob, gang member and what have you doesn' cut a proper military image. As a retired enlisted member I see this alot on the bases I visit. I admit, that I myself haven't always followed regs about mixing civilian clothing and military clothing. But this "troop" (not mixing clothing") looks more like some teenager, than a soldier in civies. He is a soldier, he's out of regs, he refuses to show his ID and reveal his company designation. Take a clearer picture (without the flash or into the sun light) and send it to the courtesy patrol. The Courtesy Patrol can't always be every where at once. Their cell phone number should be posted to all companies officers and NCOs for use in cases like this. Remember that as officers and senior NCOs you have two charges against the individual in question, inadherance to regs and refusal to answer an officer's questions (disrespect).

Response by SgtMaj Charles Spidell made May 24 at 2020 11:22 AM

2020-05-24T11:22:25-04:00

I’m glad things have changed. As a Marine I was stationed at Ft. Bragg at the JFKSWCS in the mid-90s. I was appalled by the seeming lack of civilian attire regulations, or at least the enforcement of them. On the other end of the spectrum, the Marines had some silly regs, and I felt pretty stupid having to enforce them.

Response by SPC Andrew Murray made May 24 at 2020 6:18 PM

2020-05-24T18:18:18-04:00

Awful lot of pearl clutching here.

Response by SMSgt Jeff Kyle made May 24 at 2020 7:24 PM

2020-05-24T19:24:18-04:00

Ask for his ID. If he’s on base, he has to have some kind of ID. If he fails to produce an ID, immediately contact law enforcement and report a civilian on base illegally. There can be two outcomes, one, he’s a GI. Contact his 1st Sgt and press charges. Two, if he’s a civilian, he’ll be escorted to the main gate. He can (and should) be banned from the base.
It’s idiots like this that make a 1St Sgt’s day.

Response by CPL Bobby McKellar made May 24 at 2020 11:20 PM

2020-05-24T23:20:58-04:00

Could’ve been a DAV (or similar) with ID card doing some shopping. Military PT gear is popular in the civilian world, so there is that.
I’ve been on several bases at PX’s/BX’s shopping in civvies because I’m a DAV now and if an active duty individual tried to dress me down I’d certainly be more respectful...but I’d also tell them to pound sand. That being said, I wouldn’t dress like an idiot and act like a jackass, so that would never happen in the first place.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 25 at 2020 4:25 AM

2020-05-25T04:25:13-04:00

For one thing. If he is a civilian he is free to wear it however he like. If he is a military member than he falls under UCMJ and that includes dress and appearance. There are 2 ways to approach this. 1 ignore it or 2 report to security forces and they will ID him and if he is military it will be dealt with. Remember you are not the police and your ability to control civilians and to request ID is limited and to forcibly request it is a federal crime.

Response by SFC Joh Williams made May 25 at 2020 8:33 AM

2020-05-25T08:33:15-04:00

Most posts have a policy letter for these cases.
On another note, there is no such thing as exclusive for military.

I use leg boots when I ride my motorcycle, because they are comfortable.

Response by SSG(P) Ell Pizarek made May 25 at 2020 10:48 AM

2020-05-25T10:48:44-04:00

When I was in, there were regulations that controlled everything from on to off duty, and that has changed drastically. To be a good leader and have a strong unit, platoon to divisions, you have to focus on and secure the big stuff first. Once you build the pride in the performance of your skill as an individual and team, this small stuff will resolve itself. If you treat this individual as a criminal because of how he dresses, he will in turn be a problem performing as part of the team. Leadership is all about how you lead, not enforce.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made May 25 at 2020 7:19 PM

2020-05-25T19:19:04-04:00

100% if you told any of my sailors to correct their civilian clothes, they would tell you to fuck off and I would be proud of them. Some of you guys are why people are getting out.

Response by Angie Marie made May 26 at 2020 6:06 AM

2020-05-26T06:06:51-04:00

Unless things have changed since I was manager of a MCSS spouse can purchase items for their AD or retired spouse.

However, no one should be dressed like that on base and if by some ultra slim chance he is a spouse and not AD someone should still reach out to the spouse. My husband is retired now, but I was always told that my husband was responsible for my actions on base.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made May 27 at 2020 1:09 PM

2020-05-27T13:09:12-04:00

First there seem to be some real disrespectful comments on this thread. Lets have a civil discussion, regardless of anyone's rank. I have run into this several times. I am an MP, but that is besides the point for the first part of my thoughts. First is it against army/post policy that his pants are sagging? Or is it something that just bothers you? I have been in the PX and I have seen soldiers excessively sagging. Again I try to use it as a learning moment than an "a** chewing". I talk to them about perception and how they are dressed can translate to how people and his units leadership will treat them. Some have pulled up their pants and some blew me off. Again check the regulation and the individual post policy. If it is against post policy, inform them of the policy and move on. Call the MP and let them handle it. I was called to a scene(MP on duty) where a senior NCO made an on the spot correction which turned into a physical altercation with a soldier. It turned out the senior NCO got his "*SS kicked" but lost professionalism and now his career is affected since he was also arrested and titled. I personally don't like sagging, but if it is not against regulation let it go. No differeance as I don't think E4 that make the automatic promotion without going to the board, but again not my call. Everyone must remember that on the spot corrections are teaching moments so approach them as such. This is just my opinion and I am open for discussion.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made May 27 at 2020 3:29 PM

2020-05-27T15:29:34-04:00

I am SO glad to be out. The micromanagement of a person is ridiculous. While i am not a fan of certain styles, this individual is not the detriment of the Army (one person really represents an entire organization? Really? How come Soldiers and other servicemen and women don’t represent their affiliation when they commit a crime?) and all this talk of calling the MPs and whatnot sounds real familiar to the civilian world.

Oh... and for those who are calling him a “thug” grow some stones and say what you REALLY want. No one here is studied, keep your dog whistles to yourself, or at least off of this forum.

Lest we think your views represent the Military.

Response by Sgt Marcus Boone made May 29 at 2020 6:59 AM

2020-05-29T06:59:41-04:00

Posting notice on the door stating that "dress codes", as defined by the facility, must be adhered to and a lock of honoring those code could result in loss of privileges, no matter the color, religion or gender.
Question is, if he was not a soldier, why was he at a Base Exchange, (supposing this took place on base.)

Response by SSG David Angell made May 31 at 2020 10:04 AM

2020-05-31T10:04:30-04:00

I know things have changed in the time I was in...1969 to 2009 (in and out), but I still think, that if you are purchasing anything from the Bx/Px, or clothing and sales, you have to show an ID..whether it being Active/Reserve/Retired/Dependent, an ID has to be shown, before the purchase.
So if the clown is in the Military, then he will have to show proof. Also, call the Base Security and explain the problem. Believe me, if the clown is in the military, he won't give to much lip. The brig isn't a good place to spend time in, waiting for your 1st Sgt. to come and bail you out.

Response by GySgt Richard James made May 31 at 2020 1:39 PM

2020-05-31T13:39:15-04:00

Have him/her escorted off the base (by Military Police) especially if the individual(s) does not have any form of Military ID. If the individual(s) are guest/visitor(s) of an active/reserve duty military family, escort them to the nearest MP/SP headquarters and contact that particular military family. That individual would not be allowed to return to the base or that military installation until their behavior has been corrected and it is well documented.
I am retired military and I do not tolerate this type of behavior from my own children and/or relatives, regardless of their age. Their friends know very well what is tolerated behavior and what is not.
"Semper Fi".......Discipline and Respect starts at home and at/beginning at a very young age.....

Response by SPC Daniel Rankin made May 31 at 2020 10:59 PM

2020-05-31T22:59:45-04:00

I would have approached him and verified that he had id or not, and then would have asked that he leave if no id. Being on post and no id I would have wondered how he even had gotten into the post or store even. Not a good thing because of the way the world is treating the military anymore.

Response by SPC Brian Lloyd made Jun 1 at 2020 9:27 PM

2020-06-01T21:27:44-04:00

I know this is five years after the original post, but for those who are not aware, non-retiree veterans can now access on-base resources such as the Exchange, commissary, MWR facilities, etc...

Response by PO3 James Bobiney made Jun 2 at 2020 3:15 PM

2020-06-02T15:15:13-04:00

I'm sorry. But I can't make it out, it's too small. It looks like he's wearing blue shorts and a shirt. It looks like Civilian attire. Unless I'm just blind as fuck.
Ok, was able to enlarge it. Yes, he needs to pull his pants up while on base. Why can't I delete my comments if I want to change it?

Response by SSG Angela Tunali made Jun 8 at 2020 6:46 PM

2020-06-08T18:46:07-04:00

a dependa probably

Response by LCpl Earl Breon made Jun 12 at 2020 7:28 AM

2020-06-12T07:28:48-04:00

What happened to being required to produce your ID card whenever asked? That should have been the first and immediate request. Then you have the answers you need as to who to contact. Even if he is a dependant, there are still some expectations to maintain. At least that's how it was "back in the day."

Response by LCpl Earl Breon made Jun 12 at 2020 7:32 AM

2020-06-12T07:32:10-04:00

Simply ask for his ID card. That should be a requirement to produce at the PX no matter if he is in the service or a dependant. From the ID card, you have all the answers you need to adjust your reaction and necessary follow up conversations as needed.

Keep it calm. Keep it simple. Keep it polite.

Response by SSgt Ronald Abney made Jun 25 at 2020 8:30 AM

2020-06-25T08:30:04-04:00

The real question is, why was he allowed to enter the on-base/post facility in the first place????

Response by SSgt Ronald Abney made Jun 25 at 2020 8:32 AM

2020-06-25T08:32:24-04:00

That falls under the auspices of the base/post commander. That a reflection and shows a derilection of his duty.

Response by SPC Jesse Davis made Jun 25 at 2020 6:27 PM

2020-06-25T18:27:26-04:00

Yeah, unless there is a specific regulation regarding his attire, your being offended at what he's wearing isn't a basis to confront him.

Response by SGT Ronald Mitchell made Jun 28 at 2020 6:22 PM

2020-06-28T18:22:12-04:00

I think y'all should've mind your own business. It certainly isn't a bad enough issue to involve the police. I personally think y'all control antennas are sticking out too far. Leave the guy alone and allow him to spend his money and leave. Good grief!!! That's a major problem in society right now, people don't know how to mind their own freaking business!!

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 29 at 2020 8:32 AM

2020-06-29T08:32:51-04:00

Honestly can't see anything wrong with what he's wearing as the picture is blurry but from what I can see I'd say yall are truly overreacting this is why soldiers get out people don't micromanage off time!

Response by SGT George Stephens made Jul 2 at 2020 8:04 AM

2020-07-02T08:04:42-04:00

So there's a few red flags here

1. He's in a clothing store looking to buy clothing used for mission oriented task.

2. His disrespect and lack of self respect

3. He verbally stated he's not a soldier.

So these three are enough for me to ask, "okay then sir may I see your ID? It's just so i can politely, professionally, and with the my upright courtesy, address you properly."

Gain as much information as possible while contacting the MPs so they can do their part cause us grunts know our place and will do what's needed but here at home that's frowned upon.

If he refuses to show ID, "okay sir well if you're not a soldier, airmen, sailor, or marine then what brings you into a clothing store?"

"Okay, well how about I buy you that ICEE as a common courtesy or better yet there's this awesome Smoothie King near by"

Do what you can to stall him but if he's adement about trying to leave then let him but get direction of travel, height, clothing, accessories, voice, skin tone, vehicle if he leaves in one, etc.

But the sagging pants would be enough for me to say, "well be it military or civilian you need to fix your pants while on post"

Response by SMSgt Bob Wilson made Jul 8 at 2020 3:50 PM

2020-07-08T15:50:54-04:00

Personally, I don't care how he looked; however, for the sake of discussion, it appears to be a simple solution. The contractors, vendors, and Exchange, with the express orders of the Post CO, "...No service, unless certain dress code is adhered to..." Also, if the individual was not military, where was the sponsor?

Response by SPC Daniel Rule made Jul 14 at 2020 4:46 PM

2020-07-14T16:46:10-04:00

He could have been a dependent either buying pets for his parent or spouse.

Response by SGT Gary Tob made Jul 21 at 2020 4:01 PM

2020-07-21T16:01:45-04:00

Ask for ID, especially if on post, maybe call the MPs.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 29 at 2020 10:36 AM

2020-07-29T10:36:20-04:00

I’m surprised the overwhelming response is to challenge the unknown individual and demand they show their ID card because their pants are sagging. Issue I have is WHO authorized you to stop detain and search an individual demanding their ID cards and what is the SCOPE of this authority? If you don’t know that answer, then you’re probably not allowed to exercise your own authority over another individual. The authority to turn away people for dress codes violations are set by regulatory guidance.

Response by SPC(P) Brandon Jenkins made Aug 1 at 2020 10:29 AM

2020-08-01T10:29:29-04:00

did anyone ever actually confirm that he was a SM?

Response by CPL Robert Smith made Aug 1 at 2020 12:37 PM

2020-08-01T12:37:25-04:00

Honestly.. id just leave it alone. He obviously won't be staying in for much longer. Either his attitude or his carelessness will eventually get him the boot (if he was indeed confrontational and rude). But just let it go. Not everything needs to be over enforced and policed.

Response by PO1 Patricia James made Aug 1 at 2020 5:30 PM

2020-08-01T17:30:28-04:00

Ask for his ID.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 2 at 2020 3:19 PM

2020-08-02T15:19:47-04:00

All posts have dress code... for allowable styles, if they are against the dress code they are not to be in the vicinity... if said SM States he/she states they are not SM but got seen buying uniform items then they have just committed an offense against UCMJ lying to an NCO or Officer

Response by SPC Dale Wilken made Aug 2 at 2020 10:06 PM

2020-08-02T22:06:02-04:00

The guy is a nut case and should be turned in.

Response by MSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 4 at 2020 9:28 PM

2020-08-04T21:28:37-04:00

Just a thought, with the instream of former veteran's now allowed on bases due to the VA eligibility for former member with disability. He might not be in the service just a veteran getting the uniform there are no restrictions on purchase of clothing to them. So now the assumption that he is active duty might not be true.

Response by SSG Paul Headlee made Aug 4 at 2020 10:27 PM

2020-08-04T22:27:39-04:00

I would have called the MP's on him.

Response by Pvt SanJuana Méndez made Aug 19 at 2020 3:22 AM

2020-08-19T03:22:06-04:00

Personally, I'd refuse to serve him. If he cn't respect me & what I stand for, I see no rezun to give him time of day.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 14 at 2020 3:34 PM

2020-09-14T15:34:53-04:00

Calm down and let him live his life as a saggy pants loser.

Response by SSgt Daniel d'Errico made Sep 16 at 2020 7:19 PM

2020-09-16T19:19:36-04:00

I'd tell the MCS Clerk to not sell this civilian anything from the MCS since he claims he's not a soldier. Then call for the MPs to detain him. Once he releases that he is a soldier, then have him arrested for failing to obey two senior NCOs and regulations regarding wear of civilian clothing on base.

Response by CPL Devin Noffsinger made Sep 17 at 2020 3:08 AM

2020-09-17T03:08:36-04:00

Snap a photo in case he leaves and call provost marshal or MP's

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 17 at 2020 6:12 AM

2020-09-17T06:12:22-04:00

I’m just here because this popped up in my email and saw A LOT of warriors wanting to call the police on how a guy was wearing clothes.........

Response by SSG James N. made Sep 18 at 2020 8:33 AM

2020-09-18T08:33:57-04:00

SGM, please come collect your gay son from the Cash Sales

Response by 1SG Charles Coleman made Sep 19 at 2020 2:04 PM

2020-09-19T14:04:32-04:00

He's part of a protected class

Response by CPT M Evesque made Sep 19 at 2020 3:32 PM

2020-09-19T15:32:09-04:00

Can you ask him to show his ID that allows him into the PX/BX/NEX?

Response by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 20 at 2020 7:51 PM

2020-09-20T19:51:40-04:00

Once he says he is not a soldier. Then my next question is woh is your sponsor. And inform him you know your not allowed to make a purchase . Unless your a soldier. So either your lying to me. Or your not allowed in here without your sponsor. Who is your sponsor.

Response by SSG Gregg Mourizen made Oct 30 at 2020 9:11 PM

2020-10-30T21:11:29-04:00

Just wait for him, at the register. If he pulls out a military ID, Got at it. If he pulls out a dependent ID? Well, decide how far you want to go. If there is a courtesy patrol, by all means, point him out.
I want to say this is not your job, but then again, when part of your job is to enforce the standard...

Response by MSG Brian Millard made Dec 1 at 2020 3:00 AM

2020-12-01T03:00:03-05:00

To those that have answered:
It’s not the attire he has on that’s in question, but that his pants are pulled down like a thug. That’s totally inappropriate and should be corrected.
Also, everyone on a military post has an ID, to include dependents, and have to produce it when requested to do so.

Response by SPC Donald Moore made Jun 23 at 2021 9:04 AM

2021-06-23T09:04:26-04:00

Detain him and call the Military Police. If he is on a military instillation, he is should be either a member or a dependent. If he won't show credentials, he could be a terrorist that somehow entered the facility by stealth. Security forces will straighten out the situation.
Compliance is not optional.