DA Civilians and Active Military in the Workplace

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 26 Oct 2014 13:04:23 -0400

I will ask this question in example form.

NCOIC asks DA Civilian in a working environment to do something, and the DA Civilian give a snide, snarky answer about it, suggesting he isn't given enough reason to listen. NCOIC, in the most tactful way, says do what I told you to do. DAC reluctantly does the job in the most lazy way possible.

So, my question is, how should the NCOIC deal with this situation? In a workplace environment, do the green suiters run the show? As far as I am tracking, they do and the DA Civilians are there to facilitate a specialized job.

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 26 at 2014 1:22 PM

CW5 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 26 Oct 2014 13:22:06 -0400

SFC Private RallyPoint Member, I think it depends on the workplace and the "chain of command" that's in place. I have worked as a DA civilian where a GS-14 tells O4s and O5s what to do. And I'm currently in a place where an O3 might very well tell a GS-14 what to do. I think it's kind of fuzzy. If the NCO is in charge of the civilians, then there's that. If not, it's not as clear. That has been my experience, at least.

Response by 1SG Steven Stankovich made Oct 26 at 2014 1:23 PM

1SG Steven Stankovich — Sun, 26 Oct 2014 13:23:55 -0400

This is a very interesting topic. When I was a 1SG, my Company was comprised of Military, DACs, and Contractors. There were a few instances where there were instances like the one you describe. The best COA that I have seen through experience is (1) have the NCOIC ask the DAC to complete the task assigned. If the DAC refuses, the NCOIC should (2) document the incident and take it to the DACs Rater. Everyone has a boss. If you cannot get the job done by using cordial methods, then it needs to be elevated. I have seen things get resolved both ways.

It is important to remember that there are duty descriptions for DACs similar to work contracts for Contractors which is similar to Duties and Scope for a NCO. The task given to the DAC should be within the duty description of the DAC.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 26 at 2014 1:44 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 26 Oct 2014 13:44:40 -0400

And I do understand that, as with most instances, situation will always dictate what course of action is the best. Depending on what needs to be done, and why the DAC is in that specific position, they very well could be the SME and will be calling the shots.

Both very good answers. I love the knowledge that is given out here.

Response by SFC William Swartz Jr made Oct 26 at 2014 3:22 PM

SFC William Swartz Jr — Sun, 26 Oct 2014 15:22:46 -0400

Having been in this position in 2 of my last duty positions, it can get pretty "hairy" when a circumstance arises like that which the OP stated. I was the NCOIC of the Tank Driver Simulation Center at Ft. Knox, we conducted the driver's training of all new Army and Marine Corps tankers and I had a crew of 21 DAC instructors and 6-10 "green suiters". I was the BOSS, I rated all the civilians and any and all issues were handled at my level unless higher intervention was required. As I never had a union grievance filed against me in the 2-years I was Chief, I suppose that it worked out pretty good for all concerned. When I was stationed in Kuwait I served as the Operations NCOIC for ASG-KU, I had a couple of DACs that worked for us in the CBRNE and Range Control Operations as well as the Assistant S-3 was a DAC GS-11 I believe. Only ever had one incident with one of the individuals, do not know if it was just a "bad day" for him and me, but it got heated a bit and required the S-3 and AS-3 both to intervene and settle things down. Like the previous posts have stated, request that he individual perform the task and document any/all instances of failure to perform or insubordination and hand it off to that persons rater be it a Soldier or higher grade DAC for them to square away.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 27 at 2014 12:41 AM

Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 27 Oct 2014 00:41:05 -0400

I have had my share of dealing with DAF CIVS. 80% of them really piss me off. Some of them are real good and understand their roles. As a reservist I had a couple GS-13's under me and they were great. As contractor we are subordinate to a couple 13's. They like to think they are the supreme commander of the squadron even though they subordinate to Majors's. One likes to go around and boast that they are above everyone in the building.

I recently had a GS-13 complain to my boss because I used my military ID to get on base, she was offended that I got salute. She claims contractor's should never come base with a salute. I told her that until I am on the clock and in the building I am a Major in the Air Force Reserves. When I am in the building on company time I am civilian contractor. In a tactful way I told her that she should just mind her own Fckng business about what I do when I am not their time.

Some of these DAV CIVS piss me off! I know I am ranting but I am sick and tired of some of these no talent ass clowns.