DA Civilians; Does the Army need them? Do we need as many as we have?

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 01 Nov 2013 23:24:48 -0400

We all saw the empty offices during the temporary shutdown. Based on the slashing of the force, I think we should put soldiers back in these slots. I am not sure if there is a DA Civilian position that an MOS or additional duty position doesn't cover. Thoughts?<br>

Response by LTC Jason Bartlett made Nov 2 at 2013 12:49 AM

LTC Jason Bartlett — Sat, 02 Nov 2013 00:49:23 -0400

For every Soldier we place in these positions that will be one less Soldier in your Rifle Platoon, you will be leading yourself by the time we backfill all the DA Civilians.   <div><br><div>Option 2<br><div>I will assume that you want to lead Soldiers so that means the Army will backfill these positions <font color="#4d4d4d"><span style="font-size: 14px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">simply by handing them over to more expensive contractors. Not fiscally  responsible. </span></font></div><div><font color="#4d4d4d"><span style="font-size: 14px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br></span></font></div><div><font color="#4d4d4d"><span style="font-size: 14px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Option 3</span></font></div><div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0); font-size: 14px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; color: rgb(77, 77, 77);">The bottom line is we will only have an Army that we can afford and to really save money while maintaining an effective military, the total force mix has to be analyzed as a single entity (military/DAC/Contractors). Which is really what we are doing now throughout the services. </span></div><font color="#4d4d4d"><span style="font-size: 14px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br></span></font><div>Familiarize yourself with AR 71-32 and or 2013 How The Army Runs.</div></div></div>

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 2 at 2013 7:46 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 02 Nov 2013 07:46:11 -0400

They are absolutely needed for continuity in the big four star commands. we need to get the contractors and DA civilians out of the business of deploying though.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 2 at 2013 8:09 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 02 Nov 2013 08:09:47 -0400

Our 10+ DACs play a vital role at my ammunition depot here in Japan. They hold mostly QASAS (Quality Assurance Specialist Ammunition Surveillance) positions and garrison level management jobs (DPW, ATO, etc.). They are veterans with 20-30 years of experience and levels of training and certification that greatly surpass what our 89As (ammo stock control) and 89Bs (ammo specialist) have. There are very few of these MOSs in the Army and it makes more sense to keep these SMEs gainfully employed in my opinion. I believe it takes about 2 years of schooling and OJT to train a QASAS and I doubt the Army would find it cost effective to have a dedicated MOS schooled for that long before they are considered qualified for duty. Most of our DACs were considered "mission essential" but even with the loss of a few during the shutdown, our battle rhythm slowed. Plus our BN was in the processes of inactivation, but the mission requirement and the depot itself remains. We are still able to provide theatre wide ammo support with just a LTC Depot Director and a SFC 89B now, precisely because of our DAC SMEs and host nation workforce. This allowed the Army to inactivate our BN and put our Soldiers to better use in other parts of the Army. Now, obviously my example is just once case, but I think it shows how many DACs have unique skill sets and experience that many Soldiers lack. When managed properly, I think they can actually help free up Soldiers to fill more vital roles and better allow the Army to meet its force project requirements. Some DACs are true combat multipliers and this should not be forgotten.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 2 at 2013 8:45 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 02 Nov 2013 08:45:53 -0400

2LT Travis Hooser, Read the comment of CPT Mathew. He hits the nail in the head in response to "what needs to be done to solve the issue," and that is to identify and push to change the classification to "mission essential" for all identified DA civilians so they are not lost during a shutdown.

This could be done my presenting factual matter (numbers and percentages) of how your operations where affected and providing a list of the DA civilians positions that could have prevented the issues.

The list could be forward by your commander through the proper channels and they could change the classification on the job description since they are not written in stone and are subject to change.

As officers, it is our job to identify these issues and do the research to set in motion the actions that are needed to improve our organization.

It may be an uphill battle but nothing changes without action.

Response by SFC James Baber made Dec 24 at 2013 10:20 PM

SFC James Baber — Tue, 24 Dec 2013 22:20:21 -0500

I believe that there will always be positions that are needed to be filled with DA civilians, if we were to fill them with SMs and the necessity of that SM was to deploy then you will need to fill it again, some positions are needed permanent DA civilian across the board. But many others could be either filled with SMs or an additional duty for others, also we do need to eliminate many if not all deployed DA civilian positions as this is not cost efficient overall, this could also be looked at for contract positions as well.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 23 at 2014 9:39 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 23 Oct 2014 09:39:25 -0400

While I will admit that for every DA Civilian we have, we enable one more Soldier to be on the field fighting. However, I really feel the amount we have far exceeds the need. We have DA Civilians doing jobs that, rightfully, Soldiers should. We have so many 92Gs not cooking, 31B not doing police work, etc.

Honestly, if the case is "not enough guns on the battlefield," fire the DA Civilians and recruit more Soldiers. It would be cheaper, as most, if not all, DA Civilians make more than the average Soldier. I understand contracts and whatnot, but it would seem to me that this avenue of approach is the more cost effective way.

Response by CMC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 29 at 2014 5:04 PM

CMC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 29 Dec 2014 17:04:27 -0500

Agreed, all this outsourcing that has occurred in the last 40 years has not been beneficial to any of the services.