Do the Army combat identification badge and the combat action badge not go hand in hand?

2017-04-15T02:54:05-04:00

Why do some soldiers have both and some have either or?

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 15 at 2017 3:40 AM

2017-04-15T03:40:38-04:00

I'm authorized 2 CSIBs but do not have a CAB or CIB. The CSIB indicates the unit a Soldier deployed with. Everyone who deploys to a combat zone, regardless of their role or level of contact experienced, earns the right to wear one. A combat action badge is awarded for direct contact with the enemy. Many people have deployed multiple times and not had direct contact with an enemy force.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 15 at 2017 5:47 AM

2017-04-15T05:47:16-04:00

Are you related to retired Gen. Colin Powell?

Response by CPO Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 15 at 2017 8:04 AM

2017-04-15T08:04:30-04:00

The CIB is for your Infantry guy's that engage in combat actively. The CAB created because of the conflicts and type of warfare we have been fighting for over 15 years. The intent was to give all non combat MOS's a device just like the CIB, because only Infantry can receive that device for coming in contact with enemy. The battle field of these conflicts changed because of IED's and support forces needing to operate outside the wire in the same Areas as Infantry unit's, but not exactly direct Action Combat, more defensive turning into offensive to kill the enemy or defend themselves. Todays Battlefield does not have the old FEBA (Forward Edge Battle Area) and FLOT (Forward Line Of Troops) concept. You can also be an Infantry guy and because you are on a JTF that is none infantry and come in contact you can not receive the CIB, because it is not an Infantry type unit, but yet they are still exposed to enemy contact. Now I am Navy but was on a JTF in Iraq and was NCOIC, so I had to write some up and did write one Infantry and Marine up, the 11B did not like it because CIB is what an infantry guy should have.

Response by SPC James Harsh made Apr 15 at 2017 8:56 AM

2017-04-15T08:56:03-04:00

I have 'spurs' (actually just the paper/PI do have a CIB as well)+~ we had 19d volunteer to come with and the funny thing is that they thought they were infantry

Response by WO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 15 at 2017 9:55 AM

2017-04-15T09:55:18-04:00

Just to clarify, the "Combat Identification Badge", are you talking about Shoulder Sleeve Insignia (SSI)? In that case, the patch is called the SSI-FWTS or Should Sleeve Insignia for Former Wartime Service.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 15 at 2017 9:58 AM

2017-04-15T09:58:53-04:00

The combat patch is earned after being in a combat zone for a set period of time, the CAB is earned if you take direct fire in action as a non infantry participant.

Response by SSG Edward Tilton made Apr 15 at 2017 10:34 AM

2017-04-15T10:34:06-04:00

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 15 at 2017 11:39 AM

2017-04-15T11:39:32-04:00

I have an SSI-FWTS (otherwise known as the combat patch), but I do not have a CAB. There are LOTS of Soldiers that have something on their right sleeve, but are a flatliner when it comes to their chest.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 15 at 2017 5:24 PM

2017-04-15T17:24:20-04:00

You get a CSIB for being deployed to a hostile fire area - whether or not hostile fire occurred is not relevant, just that you were there.
CABs (and CIBs and CMBs) require direct engagement with the enemy.

Response by LTC Jason Mackay made Apr 15 at 2017 10:04 PM

2017-04-15T22:04:47-04:00

Two different requirements. They should have CSIB if they have a CAB. Someone wearing a CAB without a CSIB or SSIFWTS is suspect but not wrong. Wearing a combat patch and wearing the CAB are optional unless directed by the commander for a ceremonial/unit event.
CAB = Soldiers who personally engaged, or are engaged by the enemy.
CSIB = deployed in the hostile fire area as designated by the SEC Army or higher.
Some people just don't like wearing extra insignia. Others have a philosophical reasons too numerous to list.
Regulations: AR 600-22-8 para 8-8 and AR 670-1 para 21-17.

AR 600-8-22 8–8. Combat Action Badge
a. On 2 May 2005, the Chief of Staff, Army, approved the creation of the Combat Action Badge (CAB) to provide special recognition to Soldiers who personally engaged, or are engaged by the enemy.
b. The requirements for award of the CAB are Branch and MOS immaterial. Assignment to a Combat Arms unit or a unit organized to conduct close or offensive combat operations, or performing offensive combat operations is not required to qualify for the CAB. However, it is not intended to award all Soldiers who serve in a combat zone or imminent danger area.
c. Specific eligibility requirements.
(1) May be awarded to any Soldier.
(2) Soldier must be performing assigned duties in an area where hostile fire pay or imminent danger pay is authorized.
(3) Soldier must be personally present and actively engaging or being engaged by the enemy, and performing
satisfactorily in accordance with the prescribed rules of engagement.
(4) Soldier must be assigned or attached to a unit that would qualify the Soldier for the CIB/CMB. For example, an 11B assigned to Corps staff is eligible for award of the CAB. However, an 11B assigned to an infantry battalion is not eligible for award of the CAB.
d. In addition to Army Soldiers, the CAB may also be awarded to members of other U.S. Armed Forces and foreign military personnel assigned to a U.S. Army unit, provided they meet the above criteria (for example, KATUSA’s in the 2d Infantry Division).
e. Award of the CAB is authorized from 18 September 2001 to a date to be determined. Award for qualifying service in any previous conflict is not authorized.

AR 670-1 21–17. Shoulder sleeve insignia–former wartime service
a. General. Authorization to wear a SSI indicating FWTS applies only to Soldiers who are/were assigned to U.S. Army units that meet the following criteria in subparagraph (1) below:
(1) Required criteria—
(a) The Secretary of the Army or higher must declare the theater or area of operation as a hostile environment to which the unit is assigned or Congress must pass a Declaration of War.
(b) The units must have actively participated in or supported ground combat operations against hostile forces in which they were exposed to the threat of enemy action or fire, either directly or indirectly.
(c) The military operation normally must have lasted for a period of 30 days or longer. An exception may be made when U.S. Army forces are engaged with a hostile force for a shorter period of time, when they meet all other criteria, and a recommendation from the general or flag officer in command is forwarded to the Chief of Staff, Army.
(d) The Chief of Staff, Army must approve the authorization for wearing the SSI for FWTS. Note: Units are not authorized to modify their SSI or SSI–FWTS without prior approval from the DCS, G-1. A mirror image SSI-FWTS is considered a modification. In addition, TIOH must approve the design of any modification and authorize its manufac- turing in accordance with paragraph 2–3.

Response by COL Charles Williams made Apr 16 at 2017 12:22 AM

2017-04-16T00:22:22-04:00

Jabari Powell what MAJ Private RallyPoint Member said. The combat patch means you deployed with a particular unit. The CAB, CIB, and CMB mean you have been involved with an actual engagement with armed enemy of the US... meaning yiou were fired upon, or attacked... Or fired on or attacked an enemy. Not everyone who deploys actively fightd or engages (or is engaged by the enemy).
The latter (CIB, CAB, CMB) are MOS specific and have additional criteria. The CIB is for 11 and 18 series. The CMB is for medics assigned to combat arms units in a combat engagement, meaning the CIB or CAB was awarded.... The CAB for everyone else.

Response by MSG David Johnson made Apr 19 at 2017 6:00 PM

2017-04-19T18:00:38-04:00

I think there may be some confusion about badges in the question.
The CIB is the Combat Infantry Badge, not identifier. As for the CAB, this award was designed for those whose jobs took them to the non existent front line. So if you were under direct fire, within a certain distance of a detonation, or earned a Purple Heart. I know there are more qualifiers than that, but it's a simple answer.
I believe the refs state that the CIB, and the CAB can not be worn together.

The only way the CAB is automatic is if you received the Purple Heart.

I think you meant the CSIB, that's just like your unit patch, but you get it for service in a combat zone for a specified amount of time. 30 days in country, air crews and Navy accumulated days towards the 30 day mark, or if you were WIA prior to the 30 day mark, but the 30 days may have been changed since I was retired in 2008.

Response by LTC William Gilmore made Apr 19 at 2017 7:03 PM

2017-04-19T19:03:51-04:00

What is a Combat Identification Badge?

Response by SFC David Xanten made Apr 19 at 2017 8:42 PM

2017-04-19T20:42:14-04:00

The CIB, CMB or CAB are awarded for actual combat operations and if you get either one you can't get the other. Why is that?. I think it is about time that the Combat Arms Units get some sort of award, showing that they were engaged with the enemy, however in Vietnam there wasn't anything except the CIB and CMB. As an 11E I wasn't given anything although by percentage the MOS had the highest causality rate of any MOS. I did however get the CIB because I had the the 11B duty MOS for 6 weeks. I am not sure that I like the fact that a supply clerk gets a been there medal (CSIB) though.

Response by SFC William Farrell made Sep 25 at 2018 12:52 AM

2018-09-25T00:52:21-04:00

Why are they all wearing the same sunglasses in the pic?

Response by SSG Kenneth Ponder made Sep 23 at 2019 3:28 PM

2019-09-23T15:28:16-04:00

CIB dates from WWll, CAB should have never been authorized. It was to pacify Soldiers who couldn't get a CIB,

Response by SFC Rick Forlines made Dec 8 at 2019 11:56 AM

2019-12-08T11:56:58-05:00

All of my 'stuff' is in the same box that it has all been in for 25 years Thank God

Response by CPT Robert Holden made Dec 9 at 2019 1:57 AM

2019-12-09T01:57:00-05:00

Don’t know what goes hand in hand . The only combat badge im aware of is the CIB. I happened to earn mine despite never being infantry . Happened to be a scout platoon leader leading an infantry diffusion in one of my first commands

Response by MAJ Ron Peery made Dec 13 at 2019 8:26 PM

2019-12-13T20:26:30-05:00

What do you mean by combat identification badge? A CIB is a Combat Infantryman Badge, and is only awarded to an infantryman who has been engaged in combat with the enemy. A CAB, Combat Action Badge, is authorized for non-infantry personnel who have been engaged in combat with the enemy. You can have both, theoretically, if you deploy once as infantry and once as non-infantry, and are engaged with the enemy in both deployments. But the CIB will always take precedence.

Response by SSG John Jensen made Dec 13 at 2019 11:47 PM

2019-12-13T23:47:22-05:00

Jump Wings in '81. in '84 awarded EFMB, in '04 CAB as a truck driver in HETs in gigantic convoy hit by IED and ambush outside Karbala. Rec'd CAB a year after getting home, emailed Dad about the award, later conversation said Dad's CO and 1SG had CIBs from France, did he ever know anybody with 3 badges on their duty uniform, he answered no. I responded "you do now" he was always MR Negative my whole life. It changed at that point.

Response by MSG John Duchesneau made Sep 26 at 2020 2:46 AM

2020-09-26T02:46:28-04:00

The correct name of the "Combat Patch" is "Shoulder Sleeve Insignia Former Wartime Service". The SSIFWS is awarded for "in theater" service but not necessarily for being in combat. The common name "Combat Patch" implies combat service is a prerequisite but it is not.
Anyone who received the CIB, CMB or CAB is also qualified to wear the SSIFWS.

Response by SPC Donn Sinclair made Dec 23 at 2020 8:39 AM

2020-12-23T08:39:25-05:00

I've been out a long time, so humor me here. Just exactly what is an Army Combat Identification Badge?