Do you agree that Military training tactics can improve medical teams?

COL Mikel J. Burroughs — Wed, 09 Sep 2015 13:10:39 -0400

Do you agree that Military training tactics can improve medical teams?

Military training tactics to improve medical teams
By Rich Greiner
Medical Director at Connecticut Urgent Care Centers, LLC

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/military-training-tactics-improve-medical-teams-rich-greiner?trk=hp-feed-article-title-like

What if we trained our front line medical personnel as seriously and with similar tactics as other professionals we trust with our lives such as the military and airline security forces?

Response by Capt Seid Waddell made Sep 9 at 2015 1:11 PM

Capt Seid Waddell — Wed, 09 Sep 2015 13:11:59 -0400

Yes.

Response by 1SG Michael Blount made Sep 9 at 2015 1:19 PM

1SG Michael Blount — Wed, 09 Sep 2015 13:19:05 -0400

Am I restricted to a one-word answer? Well, then the answer is yes. The better you can get all members of a team to mesh and work as a unit - the more effective they'll all be, including corpsmen or medics.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 9 at 2015 1:23 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 09 Sep 2015 13:23:00 -0400

Yes, they are dead in the water without support if facing a real threat. I cannot find a record of it however I was told by a twice deployed M.D.., about a case where a LTC had written the order himself to move his unit outside of the green zone, his unit suffered heavy casualties as a result.... they weren't equipped and didn't know tactics, didn't have backup,.....

Response by SSgt Alex Robinson made Sep 9 at 2015 1:47 PM

SSgt Alex Robinson — Wed, 09 Sep 2015 13:47:21 -0400

Yes. It helps with precision

Response by Maj Chris Nelson made Sep 9 at 2015 1:53 PM

Maj Chris Nelson — Wed, 09 Sep 2015 13:53:00 -0400

So, in some regards I would say yes...but in others, I would say NO. Here is the crux.... medical personnel really do need to be familiar with and be effective with their issue weapon. (handgun or rifle). We, as medical staff, have a right (and I would even go so far as to say OBLIGATION) to protect ourselves and our patients...HOWEVER: If you take Doc on a door kicking mission, do you REALLY want Doc to be the one kicking the door or being #1 or 2 guy through the door? If Doc buys the farm, who is going to save your butt when you take a round? For those Medics that are going out on these types of mission, yes, they need to know the tactics, if for no other reason then to keep themselves safe BUT they should not be part of the actual sweep team. Setting up an entire medical facility that has no augmented security is a recipe for disaster....do you want your Nurse, PA, Doc/Surgeon out on perimeter guard when they need to be in the OR saving your life? My personal opinion is that while medical staff should be proficient with their issued weapons, once they are required to start USING THEM, the situation is not controlled and there are larger issues at hand. Now, if you are talking about focusing on MEDICAL Tactical Training, I am all for that..... but combat ops do not have the same degree of need for medical types (and SHOULD NOT have the same need). We are there to care/repair....not break things.

Response by SGT Scott Bell made Sep 9 at 2015 2:20 PM

SGT Scott Bell — Wed, 09 Sep 2015 14:20:23 -0400

Yes

Response by LTC Stephen F. made Sep 9 at 2015 3:05 PM

LTC Stephen F. — Wed, 09 Sep 2015 15:05:02 -0400

Quick response teams, treatment of significant burn teams, and those teams that treat people who have been seriously injured either by involuntary loss of limbs or requiring removal of limbs could benefit from militarily training.
The quick response teams which deal with shooting victims and other violent crimes could benefit from military tactics training; but, they should not be viewed as part of law enforcement which would put the teams at risk. We don't want to develop gung ho civilian medics :-)
The military burn treatment unit at Fort Belvoir is state of the art. The military prosthetics labs and follow-on physical raining teams could very well train civilian medical teams in certain areas.
That being said the emergency rooms in major hospitals and inner city hospitals could learn very little from military style tactical training and they may be able in turn to help train military triage teams.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 9 at 2015 3:29 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 09 Sep 2015 15:29:37 -0400

We did similar training at Ft. Polk in an area known as Tiger Land, minus the combat medics. It was as real to actual combat as they could get. Our goal was to attack the village, without getting captured or killed. They had barb wire completely around the village. Well, none of my team got captured or killed despite our PL being captured because he got lost and was wandering around in enemy territory. We were able to attack the compound by each squad closing in from each side under fire. We lost one POW. The exercise started at sundown lasted all night. It was real but not as real as the real thing. It probably saved lives.

Response by CW4 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 11 at 2015 10:09 AM

CW4 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 11 Sep 2015 10:09:35 -0400

COL Mikel J. Burroughs , Even if it’s just basic military tactics and evasion techniques, that would go a long way. All military teams regardless of duty can benefit from knowing how to successful defend their position, equipment and teammates.

Response by COL Roxanne Arndt made Oct 26 at 2015 12:57 PM

COL Roxanne Arndt — Mon, 26 Oct 2015 12:57:34 -0400

According to the Geneva convention are not medical personnel considered non-combatants??? I think defending a perimeter, being able to fire a weapon etc is good. I agree with MAJ Nelson.....a nurse, doc, PA etc should not be kicking in doors. The mission is/was part of the AMEDD is to conserve the fighting strength. I know they recently changed that. It is important to review what the AMEDD stands for as it relates to the history of the Army.

Response by SSG Joe LeChuga made Nov 1 at 2015 2:11 AM

SSG Joe LeChuga — Sun, 01 Nov 2015 02:11:35 -0500

Well, all I can say is that when I was a medic in an Army Aviation Line Company and part of the Medical Treatment Team, the three of us were expected to operate as soldiers, performing our soldier duties, along with the rest of the company. Our jobs as medics came into play only if the call came out for a medic.
Once I transferred to HHC and was at the Bn Aid Statiion, the other 6 medics & our PA ran the station. But that did not exempt us from performing all of our soldier tasks. We were just one of the many sections in the HQ Co. All of which needed to share in the duty of protecting the TOC. It was only during an actual attack that our Battle Station was in the BAS. Whenever we jumped (moving in tactical convoy) or set up a new AO, all the medics soldiered on with their issued M16's.
There was a time, when I was NCOIC of the Medical Section, that all of the medics qual'ed Expert on the range with their M16's. First Sergeant thought it was funny that the Medical Section had the best shots, but I told him that as medics we need to shoot well...in case we ever get bored, we know how to drum up business.
Seriously though, the training we received (tactical from the Company and medical at the Section) in the field and sometimes at Home Station was important in showing the medics how important they are to the unit. Not only as medics but also as soldiers. Remember, we have a volunteer Army. Although these soldiers signed up to be medics and "Support The Line", they also have a duty to be proficient with their assigned weapon; and I would even say to be capable with all the Crew Served Weapons in the Company. For us at that time that meant also being familiar with a Beretta 92F, an M60 and the M2. I don't recall having any complaints assigning my medics to those firing orders.