Do you believe the ACFT this actually gender neutral?

2019-11-15T02:15:36-05:00

With all the talk in the recent weeks following the Army releasing the results of the diagnostic ACFT, the consensus seems to be that this new, gender neutral test, may in fact not be gender neutral.

The most failed event was the leg tuck and was failed overwhelmingly by female soldiers.

Is the Gold, Silver, Black standard set for Unit and MOS going to prevent gender integration into combat arms MOs’s?

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 15 at 2019 3:08 AM

2019-11-15T03:08:33-05:00

While the test is gender neutral, it is clear the genders are not equal in ability.

My fear is every time you change a standard, you end the careers of good troops.

Response by SSG Brian L. made Nov 15 at 2019 7:26 AM

2019-11-15T07:26:41-05:00

How can it be if all the grade sheets that Ive seen ask for gender and name lol... let go to DOD ID number if we want true neutrality. So there is no bias thrown in on interpreting the scores or outcome based on scores. I know the "events" and scale are neutral however the addition of that other information taints the neutrality.

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Nov 15 at 2019 9:37 AM

2019-11-15T09:37:29-05:00

Whatever the test, all should be equal by MOS. Man or woman, should someone fail a requirment for MOSQ they should be reclassified. It is not fair to have separate satandards by gender.

I believe that all people should be able to compete for anything they want in life, I believe with that, it requires equality, that goes both ways. Thank you for your service.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 15 at 2019 12:12 PM

2019-11-15T12:12:32-05:00

It is gender neutral in the fact that it is based on the MOS for the standard.

Does that mean someone who has less upper body strength is going to struggle more than someone who does? Yes.

Can you overcome this deficiency with training? Yes.

I took my first diagnostic ACFT at DCC in September. We had one day of familiarization with the events and then we did the test another day.

Yes I saw many people struggle with the leg tuck (men and women. I couldn’t do one leg tuck. I didn’t have the upper body strength using that grip style), but I saw women who couldn’t do one at the beginning of the course when we were first told we would be doing a diagnostic who were able to knock out at least and sometimes 2 by the end of a 3 week period with a little effort.

So yes between the leg tuck, dead lift, and sprint drag carry requiring more upper body and just total body strength than the current APFT, I do think some females will struggle but can overcome it if they start training for it. I think the run times will be hard for some women as it does shave off substantial time for women in the higher age brackets who previously had really long 2 mile run times. The alternate event for the run as it currently stands seems harder to me than just running.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 15 at 2019 1:01 PM

2019-11-15T13:01:20-05:00

Females want to be in combat units or mos then do what we have to do. Enough of this gender bias apft. ACFT will fix that. Not strong enough for sprints or 90lb pull then how can they be depended on if something happens in combat. Same for males too but at least we all know the bias is gone.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 15 at 2019 1:42 PM

2019-11-15T13:42:00-05:00

It won't stop anyone from entering into an MOS. The ACFT isn't used for accessing Soldiers, the OPAT is. The early data of troops currently in service is that 85% of females failed the leg tuck. But, later data shows that females in basic training are taking it and passing just fine. All it takes is training something that was never actively trained before.

Response by CW2 Michael Bodnar made Nov 15 at 2019 3:03 PM

2019-11-15T15:03:09-05:00

When I took the ACFT over the summertime, there was not one single event that had the most amount of people that didn't pass. At the end of the day, a soldier is a soldier and expected to perform under strenuous conditions. Let's face it, if you're deployed to combat zone and all hell breaks loose, you need to be able to pick up the slack (no matter who you are or what gender you feel like claiming) and perform. This test is a way to show commanders where their troops are weak physically and allows them to alter their training regimens to increase readiness. We NEED to get away from the gender identity and focus on making the soldier better.

Response by LtCol Robert Quinter made Nov 15 at 2019 4:16 PM

2019-11-15T16:16:35-05:00

I'm going to verbalize my curmudgeon tendency. If someone wants to be something enough, they'll make it happen, male, female or whatever.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 15 at 2019 6:22 PM

2019-11-15T18:22:42-05:00

The exam is Gender Neutral because it is base on the Soldier's common task, which are Warrior Task and Battle Drills. Litter Carries, lifting equipment overhead, pushing off the enemy or ground when doing individual movement drills, able to sprint in short bursts while carrying equipment, or dragging a casualty, climbing an obstacle, all of these all basic skill level 1 task for all Soldiers.

This test will make it fair across the board and will prevent the "double standard" comments in combat arms.

Lastly, support MOS Soldiers will now have to put in the work to be fit, in a well rounded way. Time to Adapt to the new environment.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 15 at 2019 10:37 PM

2019-11-15T22:37:58-05:00

It’s an objective measure of physical fitness designed to more closely imitate movements associated with warfighting - using combat loads. So, yes, I think it is gender neutral. And so is combat.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 16 at 2019 2:06 AM

2019-11-16T02:06:41-05:00

By virtue of the fact all genders in an mos have the same standards, yes. It is gender neutral.

Response by 2LT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 16 at 2019 5:36 AM

2019-11-16T05:36:09-05:00

Initially, it might. And yet, as young women become more inclined to emulate the all the fitness models and crossfit stars populating social media, and fitness becomes a pastime rather than a chore, passing/maxing the ACFT will be as attainable as passing/maxing the APFT. I follow a 6-year-old female weightlifter on IG who easily deadlifts 140lbs. As for the leg-tuck event, it requires practice. The people who practice the most will succeed the most. The minumum number for heavy MOS's is 5. For the lighter ones, it's 1. I'm sure just about any soldier can attain the minimum with practice. All that being said though, I'm going to miss the 3 event, convenient as hell, do it in your sleep APFT.

Response by CSM Danny S. made Nov 17 at 2019 1:15 AM

2019-11-17T01:15:04-05:00

The ACFT is gender neutral for the fact that is has one standard for all age and sex. What this topic seems to be going towards is whether the ACFT is bias towards females. Well this is a new test and everyone will have to train to some extent to pass. For some it will be easy and others it will be hard. What this test does do is set a standard for soldiers by MOS/branch and if you want to be in that occupation you will have to work to maintain.

Response by SMSgt Bruce McDowell made Nov 18 at 2019 12:50 PM

2019-11-18T12:50:35-05:00

I will use this spot to support equality in the sexes and say that it is time for females to be required to sign up for the Selective Service just as men! Its time for women to step up to full up equality.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 18 at 2019 5:46 PM

2019-11-18T17:46:51-05:00

I don't care if it's gender neutral or not. I care that it's also age neutral, and I'm expected at 52 to keep up with a 22 year old or be considered a dirtbag. Yes I may pass, but you KNOW that's going to happen across the force. We have to change the mindset before we change the test, otherwise it's just going to be same old same old.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 19 at 2019 9:02 PM

2019-11-19T21:02:26-05:00

Considering that all of the events within the ACFT are completely attainable by both sexes and the scoring is the same for both, I would have to say that it is. The hardest one for females to max would probably be the deadlift, but 340 isn't all that high and is easy to get to. I would expect a lot of women to fail or score low on some of the events at first but that is because their standards have been lower for so long. Once it's implemented fully and trained for then there won't be as many issues. Give it time.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 22 at 2020 4:19 AM

2020-01-22T04:19:13-05:00

Passing the test i think ACFT is fair my only concern comes from maxing out test for promotion points. Some of the events are much harder for smaller short people regardless of gender or age. If you are 150 pounds dragging 90pounds is more then half your body weight...vs you are 200 pounds...it requires more effort or my favorite the ball toss...i have seen people who are close to 6 feet have terrible form still easily toss ball vs if you are short your form must be perfect or you will never be successful. I think neutral standards are very important but i think the test is biased as far as promotion points against short and smaller framed personal.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 26 at 2020 4:37 PM

2020-10-26T16:37:07-04:00

Yes it is because the females have to do what we do. Enough of this gender Bias crap. However if you're as strong as your weakest soldier then shouldn't the males be able to get on that sweet female standard?