Do you feel that Soldiers are guilty until proven innocent in the Army?

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 29 Apr 2014 11:16:12 -0400

I have seen a few times in the Army that Leaders automatically assume guilt of a Soldier before the investigation is complete. Any thoughts?

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 29 at 2014 11:21 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 29 Apr 2014 11:21:58 -0400

YES!!

Response by MSG Wade Huffman made Apr 29 at 2014 11:28 AM

MSG Wade Huffman — Tue, 29 Apr 2014 11:28:18 -0400

Yes, I believe in innocent until proven guilty. However, we all (as humans) are guilty of developing opinions as to guilt or innocence before we have all the facts (geez.. just look at the media!!). The key here is to NOT take action until after the completion of the investigation when all he facts are available; then make the decision and act accordingly.

Response by CW2 Jonathan Kantor made Apr 29 at 2014 11:33 AM

CW2 Jonathan Kantor — Tue, 29 Apr 2014 11:33:45 -0400

I would argue that we are all guilty until proven innocent. When you are sitting on a jury and they bring a person in front of you, it is natural to assume that they have arrested and presented the right person. We go through painstaking steps to overcome this and force the word alleged in front of everything, but it doesn't really work. We all judge a case when we hear less than 1% of the facts and most of us assume guilt.

Our courts are structured so that a prosecutor has to prove guilt, but at the same time, the defense has to prove innocence. If it were truly set up to say the person is innocent until proven guilty, then a defense wouldn't be needed at all.

Response by MSG Brad Sand made Apr 29 at 2014 12:52 PM

MSG Brad Sand — Tue, 29 Apr 2014 12:52:39 -0400

First, no one is proven innocent, they are proven Not Guilty. In a military setting, you will know the people you serve with and of course you will assume the criminals are the ones who committed the crime when there is a crime committed. The facts still need to be presented because the person who did commit the crime is the one who needs to be punished. Additionally, in our system, if there are not enough facts to prove wrong doing, then the person is found not guilty…but that does not mean that people will not be keeping a closer eye on the person from that day forward?

Response by 1SG Eric Rice made Apr 29 at 2014 1:34 PM

1SG Eric Rice — Tue, 29 Apr 2014 13:34:07 -0400

More often than not this is the case. In my opinion it takes away from the Soldier who has been accused. The individual is now "labeled" even if they have done nothing wrong and will continue to be labeled until they PCS. If the individual is guilty, then and only then should the punitive actions be taken. Maybe there should be some other method of protecting the individual from being labeled until proven guilty. For instance the law enforcement community places those under investigation on some sort of administrative leave during the process. Just a though.

Response by SFC William Swartz Jr made Apr 29 at 2014 3:10 PM

SFC William Swartz Jr — Tue, 29 Apr 2014 15:10:03 -0400

From everything I saw over 26 years and a specific incident with myself way back in 1990, yes unfortunately we are viewed as guilty until proven innocent/not guilty.