Do you have to wear a helmet on a qualification range?

2016-10-03T13:26:43-04:00

Every range I have ever been on, the ACH has always been a requirement to be worn. Anyone walking onto the range....or at least past the safety line, HAD to be wearing their hard hat. This pic was taken at Camp Smith, NY just last month.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 3 at 2016 1:36 PM

2016-10-03T13:36:39-04:00

I know some MP units that qualify with their pistols in PCs because if they have to use their weapon they will probably be in PC anyway. Most Infantry units that I have been in zero M4s slick but wear full kit for qualification. I think the NG and Reserve do whatever they want anyway so,,,Meh!

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 3 at 2016 1:42 PM

2016-10-03T13:42:21-04:00

I've never understood the wearing of the ACH on the range. That is not something that we did in the Marine Corps or in Law Enforcement; however, we always have in the Guard. I believe that the Army is bad about overdoing safety. Just use common sense and go out their and qualify. If the Army focused as much on marksmenship as they do safety, the branch as a whole would be in better shape. I've seen too many Soldiers all geared up but can't put a red dot on a target and hit it if their life depended on it.

Response by CSM Richard StCyr made Oct 3 at 2016 2:13 PM

2016-10-03T14:13:30-04:00

I've seen this on several ranges here on post with trainees as of late. Before escalating EOF procedures I called DME and the SGM informed me that there are two phases of BRM now that the Soldiers are shooting in patrol caps as per the POI. Lots of changes to lots of training.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 3 at 2016 2:23 PM

2016-10-03T14:23:05-04:00

Actually it is the commanders call, I ran a range for 2 years, unless the post has an over riding rule usually something range control put in, the uniform for qualification is the commanders call.

Response by SPC Sheila Lewis made Oct 3 at 2016 2:50 PM

2016-10-03T14:50:54-04:00

Your safety is why PPE was issued.

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Oct 3 at 2016 3:11 PM

2016-10-03T15:11:03-04:00

I've always worn soft caps on the pistol range. At first I thought it was because it was run by our Warrants. Warrant Officers KNOW comfort.

Response by SPC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 3 at 2016 3:13 PM

2016-10-03T15:13:04-04:00

Besides basic, I've always worn it as well as my kit.... I qualed in August and we mounted optics on our M4's, I was stoked... We then proceeded to not use them, but we were expected to look through the optic with our iron sights flipped up... Armeee noledge Sirrrr ......

Response by SGT Robert K. made Oct 3 at 2016 3:32 PM

2016-10-03T15:32:14-04:00

Based on FM 3-23.35 (June2003) - Combat Pistol Training there is nothing listed regarding the wearing of ACH or body armor. I have also reviewed TC 3-22.9 (May2016) Rifle and Carbine and it states the following:
"A common misconception is that wearing combat gear will cause the
zero to change. Adding combat gear to the Soldier's body does not cause the
sights or the reticle to move. The straight line between the center of the rear
sight aperture and the tip of the front sight post either intersects with the
trajectory at the desired point, or it does not. Soldiers should be aware of their
own performance, to include a tendency to pull their shots in a certain
direction, across various positions, and with or without combat gear. A shift
in point of impact in one shooting position may not correspond to a shift in
the point of impact from a different shooting position."
I remember that the regulation used to state that the wear of ACH and or body armor was optional. This left it open for the commanders and 1SG's to conduct the training in a way that would support the end task but also allow the flexibility in training. Too many commanders and 1SG's seem to use the regulation as the end all of the issue, if it doesn't say it in the regulation then they can't do it. Instead the regulations are being designed and written to give the commanders and NCO's the ability to think for themselves and develop training that meets the end standard but also engages the soldiers to learn and perform to their highest ability.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 3 at 2016 3:33 PM

2016-10-03T15:33:56-04:00

The only time a helmet is required on a flat range is if you are doing drills that require shooting and moving. For a simple qualification table involving 7.62 or lower ammunition, there isn't a requirement to be in full kit or even wear a helmet unless it is written into your risk assessment placing the requirement squarely in the realm of the approving authority (usually a company or battalion commander). Matter of fact, if I recall correctly there is some language that suggests that the uniform for a static qualification range be tailored to whatever is most comfortable for the shooter in order to achieve maximum results (with the exception of eyepro and earpro which are always requirements).

Response by Cpl Justin Goolsby made Oct 3 at 2016 3:49 PM

2016-10-03T15:49:23-04:00

Honestly, I'm not sure if there are different rules for pistol ranges versus rifle ranges. During the rifle range, we were shooting flak and Kevlar. But considering most pistol ranges are held for SNCOs and Officers, I'm not sure if the same rules apply to them. I personally never went to the pistol range while I was active duty, but my general impression is that it's a lot quicker and their main goal is to get them in and out.

Response by SSG Warren Swan made Oct 3 at 2016 4:16 PM

2016-10-03T16:16:47-04:00

I've done it with soft caps and ACH when I was a MP/Sig qualifying in garrison.I've shot all of my weapons with a Santa Claus stocking cap on that said Redskins on the front. fired my .50 from the truck with shorts, t shirt, and flip flops. Only in garrison have I had to wear full battle rattle to qualify. I will say shorts, t shirt and flip flops does make it a LOT more relaxing when shooting. There is a big wide gap between firing a weapon in garrison, and firing it deployed.

PS: why is she leaning backwards to shoot that M9?

Response by SFC Marcus Belt made Oct 3 at 2016 4:58 PM

2016-10-03T16:58:13-04:00

My BN has reintroduced shooting without an ACH, since for our people, if they use their weapons, it is most likely that they will NOT have an ACH or RBAV handy . I think the Army, as a whole, may have become a little too risk averse, and may benefit from a re-emphasis on relevant training, which, necessarily, will be a dynamic entity.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 3 at 2016 5:19 PM

2016-10-03T17:19:58-04:00

Unit SOP.

Response by SSG Randall P. made Oct 3 at 2016 6:09 PM

2016-10-03T18:09:11-04:00

I may be wrong, and if I am do not mind being corrected, but I believe the Military Police Qualification Course is in the service cap. Been firing without my ACH using my M9 for years. I never bothered to check to see if this was wrong or not.

Response by 1SG Mike Case made Oct 3 at 2016 6:15 PM

2016-10-03T18:15:23-04:00

Our unit only requires hearing and eye protection for qualifying. If we did reflexive fire where we are moving then we wore more, but qualifying was done in PC and no other gear. This is for both M-16 and M-9.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 3 at 2016 8:55 PM

2016-10-03T20:55:05-04:00

Well I am an MP when we do a law enforcement qualification then we are in LE gear so no helmet. However if we are doing a tactical range then well full kit and the whole 9 yards. The point is that we train at the range in what we will be in the fight with.

Response by SFC George Smith made Oct 3 at 2016 9:36 PM

2016-10-03T21:36:27-04:00

Depends on that the Command has established for its Range SOP...

Response by SSG Mark Franzen made Oct 3 at 2016 9:41 PM

2016-10-03T21:41:10-04:00

What has the Miltary lost there minds helmets a is must at Any Firing Range doesn't matter pistols or Rifles it is a must. please tell me that thinks have changed to worst.

Response by MSG Dan Castaneda made Oct 4 at 2016 3:28 PM

2016-10-04T15:28:17-04:00

Ft. Bragg Range Control is very strict on protective gear. I was once running concealed carry pistol range. Range control passed by and immediately turned into our range. Maybe it was the fact that we were not wearing helmets or maybe the fact that we were wearing civilian clothes. The range control man, yelled "alright who's in charge here?" I came up to him with a paper in hand because I knew he was about to freeze our range. I showed him a memo signed by both our Group commander and range control. He then said "carry on."
We were getting ready to go into a location to do low vis missions. Civilian clothes was our uniform and therefore wanted guys to get comfortable drawing from the concealed posture. Your training should mirror your mission, and SOPs of course.

Response by CW5 Sam R. Baker made Oct 5 at 2016 8:47 AM

2016-10-05T08:47:01-04:00

Depends on where you are and who is running the range. Much like the PT belt on a closed and protected road, some seniors and leaders have common sense and others do not. All battle rattle to include gloves, body armor , eye pro, ACH and more to include a camelback are required at home station, but while deployed a patrol/softcap is acceptable? I like acceptable, I just wish ranges stressed the shooter and had Soldiers on the MOVE and shooting as if they were either chased or in pursuit. But that is another topic.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 5 at 2016 11:06 PM

2016-10-05T23:06:45-04:00

Local SOP. I've shot ranges where all gear was required and ranges where only ear and eye protection was required. I've shot qual and matches in both.

Response by SPC James Anderson made Oct 8 at 2016 8:11 PM

2016-10-08T20:11:43-04:00

Train how your going to fight. We always had full battle rattle and kevlar on at every range. Towards the end of my active duty we had body armor added to some ranges. I never minded cause I didnt think I would ever get a chance to go into combat with my pt belt on. It sure wasnt a safety concern cause nothing we were issued ever had a chance of stopping any bullet.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 8 at 2016 11:32 PM

2016-10-08T23:32:06-04:00

I have been to multiple ranges on multiple bases and as far as I know it is usually the post range control who puts out the guidelines for each range and units are allowed to upgrade as they see fit. I have been on a rifle range run by SF and their range attire was patrol cap. Our CSM had a fit over that but as the SFC Range NCOIC stated it was their range and the CSM didn't outrank the SF COL. also been on the AMU range at fort benning and they also only required the PC.

Response by SGT Luis Quinones made Oct 9 at 2016 1:45 AM

2016-10-09T01:45:23-04:00

for 22 plus years always had to wear full gear, maybe times has change.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 9 at 2016 5:00 AM

2016-10-09T05:00:37-04:00

In our Brigade, they have the mentality that you need to "Train as you would fight"...so, it's full battle-rattle for us.

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 11 at 2016 12:31 AM

2016-10-11T00:31:06-04:00

Depends on the unit. We wear the ACH and IOTV/IBA, but without plates. Train how you fight I guess?

Response by SGT John Hogg made Oct 11 at 2016 4:32 PM

2016-10-11T16:32:40-04:00

RSO/OIC create the risk assessment. If the CDR blesses off on it, then it's a go. Super hot places like Fort Polk, the heat risk mitigation factor is huge, pc, gloves, eyepro and earpro, is usually so guys won't get a heat injury being in the sun all day. Moving and shooting is different, and usually has a level of risk that requires more PPE.

Response by SSG Jason Neumann made Nov 2 at 2016 6:55 PM

2016-11-02T18:55:55-04:00

You can wear patrol cap while on a qualification range, as long as there is mitigation done in the Deliberate Risk Assessment. We have had done this before, but mainly for group and zero. If you were qualifying on your M-4, you wore your kit, since that is what you'll be wearing downrange.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 25 at 2019 8:19 AM

2019-10-25T08:19:19-04:00

There is no regulation requiring a "Dome of Obedience" to be worn when shooting non-explosive ordnance for safety. See AR 385-63 and MCO 3570.1C on Range Safety to confirm. Current Army Training Circulars direct Soldiers to conduct initial live-fire training (zeroing and other practice) “slick” with no field gear. Marines have been doing it this way for many decades. Of course, it is wise to practice, qualify, and compete in full gear for training benefit.

Soldiers believe this is a "requirement" because they'd rather follow parroted nonsense instead of looking it up. Soldiers can also be issued certain military-owned weapons to keep and store at home and transport them to civilian shooting competitions. See AR 190-11.