Does anyone know any good professional reading books concerning post Vietnam environment?

2LT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 09 Jul 2018 13:24:44 -0400

I'm looking into books that discuss the relationship between platoon leaders and company commanders with their soldiers in a post-Vietnam era. Many junior officers, like myself, have no combat experience. I'm curious as to how these officers led platoons and companies where most of the enlisted personnel served several tours in Vietnam.

Response by CSM Charles Hayden made Jul 9 at 2018 1:40 PM

CSM Charles Hayden — Mon, 09 Jul 2018 13:40:27 -0400

2LT Private RallyPoint Member Reading about leading troops after the Vietnam war is more about how the Army survived and managed to ressurect itself after the dismal effects of that war.

The Army was Riffing officers left and right. Any black mark in/on an officers record was a great hint that he would not survive the drawdown. Many fine officers walked on eggs for fear of being dismissed for any small failure on their part.

The Modern Volunteer Army was not yet hatched, draftees remaining in the Army were often problematic to command.

Inasmuch as the Army has moved on from that period, why don’t you?

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 9 at 2018 1:44 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 09 Jul 2018 13:44:17 -0400

You don't need a book on post Vietnam to understand what it requires to create a great team. Watch any competitive sports team. Look at an elite college football team and watch how they play the game. A great coach will always alter a program to fit the talent in the team. You can do the same as a platoon leader. It is your job to discover the talent from within your team. Your special team coachs are your squad leaders. Tell them what you want and they will deliver by teaching the younger Soldiers. An elite football team has a handful of go-to plays that always work. They practice these routinely. You will do the same with your Platoon. Select 5-7 battle tasks that your unit must do well in, in order to achieve the company mission. Work those details out with your PSG. You will start to understand how training a unit is similar to coaching an elite football program. Practice or Rehearsals are the key to developing a great team and developing great interpersonal skills.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 9 at 2018 6:39 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 09 Jul 2018 18:39:29 -0400

Talk with your Company 1SG, your Platoon Sergeant, your squad leaders. Talk to the Company commander and other Platoon leaders.

I’m all about reading books, but the type of information you seem to be asking about may be readily available to you on a daily basis, from both the officer and enlisted perspectives.

Additionally, the post-Vietnam era Army is quite different than the Army today. While certain basic tenets of leadership stand up to the test of time, others have to be crafted to meet the needs of the current state of the Army.

That said, a very good read is “Lessons in Leadership: My Life in the US Army from World War II to Vietnam”, by GEN John Deane. It’s not quite as specific as your original question, but it’s an excellent read.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 9 at 2018 6:45 PM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 09 Jul 2018 18:45:46 -0400

You don’t need a book for that. All your going to get is war stories about how a PL felt inadequate because he didn’t have a combat patch. You know what’s harder to earn than a CIB? Yea- an EIB. But your an Artillery Officer so take what you learned in the basic course and execute. You develop the relationship on your competence to lead troops. In my book, now dats, Combat experience has as much weight as an NTC rotation because you train as if you were in combat. Don’t let them intimidate you because you don’t have a combat patch.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Jul 9 at 2018 7:33 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Mon, 09 Jul 2018 19:33:13 -0400

Start by watching Ken Burns series on Vietnam (YouTube).

Response by SPC Erich Guenther made Jul 9 at 2018 10:50 PM

SPC Erich Guenther — Mon, 09 Jul 2018 22:50:27 -0400

Though you didn't ask I will give you some unpopular input on this. I served in peacetime and my first squad leader had a CIB from Vietnam. He was a boomerang Veteran. Left the Army after Vietnam and then enlisted again under President Reagan. I respect his combat service and his past service but I did not respect his leadership ability which was completely lacking. So while a CIB looks nice and his had severe PTSD baggage as well. It does not mean you know what the hell your doing. It just means you survived. It took 8 months but I finally got transferred away from being his subordinate. Not sure if you ever saw the movie "Driving Ms Daisey"........that what it was like driving a track with him in command. Once you were obviously committed to a turn because you made the decision for him, he would say over the Commo "turn here". My most favorite command was "Hold up here and lets see what everyone else is doing"..........he had no clue how to tactically drive nor was he ever briefed on the plan of approach towards an objective. He couldn't even improvise decently as I was always asked to hold in wide open areas where the enemy would have a clear shot at the vehicle. Horrible.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 10 at 2018 4:12 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 10 Jul 2018 04:12:41 -0400

When I became a Plt Ltr in 1978, my Plt SGT , my squad leaders, and some of my team leaders and soldiers had served in VN. But frankly, the whole issue of "I have a patch and you don't" never was a thing back then, that I was aware of. That's why I've been surprised to read articles about today's Army where combat vet troops are hazing non combat vet troops, and leaders are concerned about wearing combat patches in the units as it might make new soldiers feel bad.

In my experience, it was considered a good thing to have experienced NCOs and soldiers with combat experience. That's just more expertise to draw upon and learn from. But it never for a moment affected the relationship between my NCOs and myself, nor did it ever undercut my leadership authority. Look at it this way. When you show up at your platoon, the NCOs will have years more experience than you do, whether they have a combat patch or not. So either way you are the FNG, and your job is to lead the platoon, and lead in a way where your NCOs and soldiers respect your authority, while at the same time feel free to offer suggestions, and feedback without fear of negative repercussions. And never be afraid to admit you were wrong, or reverse a policy when you realize from the feedback that it's not a good policy. The soldiers will respect you more, not less, when they see you can admit and own a mistake. Remember, your soldiers want you to be a confident, knowledgeable and successful leader because that's the type of leader they want should they have to go into combat again. So you should never treat or lead those with combat experience any differently than you would lead those soldiers without combat experience.

It's just more experience for your team to learn from. But also bear in mind, that after conflicts the Army goes through a lessons learned process that usually ends up with some modifications to tactics, techniques and procedures, because not everything we did in combat worked out as planned. So I had occasions where I was taught some new things at the Infantry Officer Basic Course that differed from how certain things were done in VN. So there were times where my PLT SGT and I would discuss things and I would explain why things had changed and what the new doctrine was. To his credit, he understood and didn't try and play the "that's not how we did it in Nam" card. Rather he supported me in implementing the new procedures. Of course, we had that discussion in private and not in front of the troops.

So the bottom line is that you should simply follow the good advice you have received about taking over a platoon in general, and not think there is a distinction between taking over a platoon with combat vets versus no combat vets. You're new and inexperienced in either situation. Take advantage of your soldiers experiences to learn all you can. But never let that experience intimidate you or cause you to do something you believe is not right. Always remember that while you will learn a lot from your subordinates, you are the Platoon Leader, not the Platoon Mascot, and must act accordingly.

Response by SSG Carlos Madden made Jul 10 at 2018 11:22 AM

SSG Carlos Madden — Tue, 10 Jul 2018 11:22:04 -0400

CC: LTC Eric Udouj

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Jul 11 at 2018 10:38 AM

SGM Bill Frazer — Wed, 11 Jul 2018 10:38:55 -0400

Sir, No one has Combat experience until they go to combat- you will always folks in your unit with more experience than you. You learn the trick of the trade from them for surviving, but you will LEAD.