Does the Peter Principle exist in the US Military?

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 10 Feb 2016 07:31:31 -0500

Peter Principle
The Peter principle is a concept in management theory formulated by Laurence J. Peter in which the selection of a candidate for a position is based on the candidate's performance in their current role, rather than on abilities relevant to the intended role. Thus, employees only stop being promoted once they can no longer perform effectively, and "managers rise to the level of their incompetence."

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Feb 10 at 2016 7:38 AM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Wed, 10 Feb 2016 07:38:47 -0500

I think we temper it heavily with assessments of potential, and the fact that we often act "above" our ranks.

The USMC has the old adage of "A Cpl is just a Sgt in training." I think we push responsibility down to the point where we find out whether people are going to fail before it happens when they have actual rank.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Feb 10 at 2016 8:04 AM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Wed, 10 Feb 2016 08:04:04 -0500

DEJA VU! =)
https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/the-peter-principle-an-explanation-for-senior-level-incompetence

The Peter Principle, an explanation for senior level incompetence. | RallyPoint

There have a number of posts regarding incompetence/misbehavior in our senior leadership, and the military in general. As a possible explanation, I present to you, the Peter Principle.  I've always believed this to be the culprit, but let me know what you think;What is the Peter Principle?  Peter Principle Management is the concept that in bureaucratic organizations, new employees typically start in the lower ranks, but when they...

Response by Capt Walter Miller made Feb 10 at 2016 8:35 AM

Capt Walter Miller — Wed, 10 Feb 2016 08:35:14 -0500

Yes.

Response by SGT William Howell made Feb 10 at 2016 8:39 AM

SGT William Howell — Wed, 10 Feb 2016 08:39:49 -0500

I believe the Peter Principal was created in the military.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 10 at 2016 9:13 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 10 Feb 2016 09:13:47 -0500

The officer corps is replete with examples of this. One really only needs to go to the correct PME and not get in their boss' crosshairs and sooner or later, you make LTC.
I have slightly more faith in the command selection boards.
For NCOs, it is almost like Lake Woebegone from "A Prairie Home Companion" where all of the kids are above average. How can everyone be "Among the Best"?
Thankfully, the new NCOER system addresses this, but many have already been promoted beyond their potential.
It is up to us as leaders to get the most out of our people, and it also up to us to make a true and accurate assessment of where they really rate, and not worry about their tender feelings being hurt.

Response by Capt Seid Waddell made Feb 10 at 2016 9:53 AM

Capt Seid Waddell — Wed, 10 Feb 2016 09:53:40 -0500

The Peter Principle is a universal principle affecting all people everywhere. Unfortunately, the Peter Prescription (how to recognize your level of incompetence and avoid it) does not function in the military due to it’s up or out policies.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 10 at 2016 10:19 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 10 Feb 2016 10:19:36 -0500

No, many in the military are promoted well beyond their level of incompetence.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Feb 10 at 2016 11:08 AM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Wed, 10 Feb 2016 11:08:15 -0500

I have done: Machining, Aviation, Tanks, DTS, Budget, Homeland Security, and Writing SOPs. It was slightly different from the Peter Principle. Every new job had a steep learning curve to it that I had to find a way to crack the code.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 10 at 2016 12:22 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 10 Feb 2016 12:22:36 -0500

Look around.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 10 at 2016 1:23 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 10 Feb 2016 13:23:28 -0500

I think the Military actually does more to reduce the effect of the PP than the business world. The OER system (at least in my time) focused on the senior rater assessment of potential. Every rater said the officer did a great job, unless he was terrible. But the SR comments focused only on potential, and the infamous block check limited inflation somewhat. Plus, the military has a series of professional development schools that are designed to prepare you for higher level jobs, not necessarily your current job. There is no eqivalent of that in the civilian world. And by using a centralized promotion system, it helps reduce favoritism and personality issues.

Now, during the war the selection rates to MAJ and above rose significantly, because numbers are numbers and if you need 1000 MAJs and you have 1100 CPTs being considered, than it is more likely that a person will get promoted above their capability. But the more traditional selection rates also help reduce that.

Response by MCPO Roger Collins made Feb 10 at 2016 1:40 PM

MCPO Roger Collins — Wed, 10 Feb 2016 13:40:32 -0500

It is true in the military and in private industry, not to mention civil service. The big difference is that when identified in the military, most are sidelined until the next cut in personnel. Most of what Laurence J. Peter espoused in this book are right on the mark and I used them prior to and after I read his book. MBWA being another one I particularly liked.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 10 at 2016 3:06 PM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 10 Feb 2016 15:06:38 -0500

I'm too unimportant for my opinion to matter...but if I found Aladdin's lamp, and got three wishes, the first would be that I'd live as long as I was needed...the second, that I'd die a good man...and the third would be that the world would be led by people who cared more about leading, than the benefits of career longevity. People like that make mistakes, but learn from them...they can be overly aggressive, but usually get results...they create casualties, but also victories.

Response by CSM Charles Hayden made Feb 10 at 2016 5:30 PM

CSM Charles Hayden — Wed, 10 Feb 2016 17:30:31 -0500

1SG Private RallyPoint Member Are you totally satisfied and pleased about your current job performance?

Did you ever receive a Peter Principled type appointment into a position where you did not perform to your own satisfaction?

How many on RP can admit to the above statement?

Response by 1stSgt Eugene Harless made Feb 10 at 2016 9:44 PM

1stSgt Eugene Harless — Wed, 10 Feb 2016 21:44:43 -0500

I always thought the "Peter Principle" just meant you will run into a lot of dickheads.