Earning Citizenship for all civilians

SGT Chris Birkinbine — Thu, 21 Aug 2014 15:10:46 -0400

I am sure a lot of you are aware of the movie "Starship Troopers" It is a comical movie about a futuristic earth and it's military in space.

What some might not know is that it is based on a military science fiction series in a magazine turned novel, and if you actually read it (or even pay attention to the movie) you will notice a lot of social commentary, philosophy, ideas on civic virture, suffarage, and all sorts of other things.

To get to the point, in this story, citizenship is not give simply for being born in a geographical area. It is earned by volunteer federal service of some kind. Full citizenship gives you the right to vote, hold public office, and make it easier to get a license to have children (which is required in this society, but a completely different topic!)

So the question is, what does everyone think of this idea of federal service for full citizenship? Is this a good idea? what would be the down side?

Personally I am for it.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 21 at 2014 3:14 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 21 Aug 2014 15:14:34 -0400

Only if corporations can be given citizenship and broader powers to lobby and otherwise buy off politicians.

Response by SGT Chris Birkinbine made Aug 21 at 2014 3:14 PM

SGT Chris Birkinbine — Thu, 21 Aug 2014 15:14:38 -0400

As a side note, I searched for this topic for 5 minutes to make sure it wasn't already addressed, and of course after finding nothing, and posting it, there are two "Similar Discussions" shown on the right that cover the same topic in a slightly different matter.

Apparently the search algorithm needs some adjustment.

Response by LTC Paul Labrador made Aug 21 at 2014 5:43 PM

LTC Paul Labrador — Thu, 21 Aug 2014 17:43:56 -0400

If I had my druthers, eliminate the "natural born citizen" category and require all persons wanting Citizenship would have to apply at the age of 18yrs. I don't necessarily think there needs to be a service obligation attached to it, but I would model the applicaiton process after the current naturalization process that we require of foreign born citizen.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 22 at 2014 1:20 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 22 Aug 2014 01:20:48 -0400

I recall a certain line from the movie Starship Troopers - "Join the Mobile Infantry and save the Galaxy. Service guarantees citizenship. Would you like to know more?" other countries have mandatory service requirements, if you're foreign born and not a citizen, then serve the entire period of the MSO, thats right all eight years, no IRR or ING, you go AWOL trying to get kicked out, there's a ticket with your name on it taking you back to your country of origin.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 22 at 2014 1:27 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 22 Aug 2014 01:27:10 -0400

I am against the concept but I am hoping for a rediscovery of individual freedom and limited government. If people want the government to coddle them and the trend toward such continues, then by all means those of authority then should earn it.

Response by A1C Thomas Leary made Oct 15 at 2014 3:10 PM

A1C Thomas Leary — Wed, 15 Oct 2014 15:10:40 -0400

I don't necessarily think that there's anything wrong with the idea of having to "earn" citizenship through some type of service, be it in the military, or peace corps, or other type. To have some type of skin in the game may lead to not only a more informed voter pool, but better, more responsive politicians. To restrict it to just military would not be fair to those who cannot or will not serve because of either physical or moral/religious differences, so having other types of service as a basis for citizenship would be critical'

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 4 at 2014 7:51 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 04 Nov 2014 19:51:58 -0500

I think it would be a good idea, maybe it would force mankind to be nicer to one another, might bring back the worlds humanity.

Response by SPC Cedar Bristol made Nov 4 at 2014 7:54 PM

SPC Cedar Bristol — Tue, 04 Nov 2014 19:54:42 -0500

I like the idea of citizenship as chosen and earned, rather than a consequence of where you were born or who your parents are. The basic rights, I believe are inherent in being human, but citizenship is not one of them.

but the other central idea in the book is that the Infantry is the noblest branch because they suffer the most. In the movie, the training for the Mobile infantry is extremely brutal, but one can imagine with futuristic medical technology, the brutality might not be senseless. In the book, they lose 4 recruits in the Canadian Rockies in an exercise that serves absolutely no purpose, and there's several other points where troops suffer for no reason other than to sacrifice. If suffering is what makes us noble, how much nobler are the Soviets, Chinese or Japanese soldiers?

Oh, and then Heinlen goes on about how lame we are today for having logistical support, and how much better it would be for everyone to multi-task. It's like he's philosophically against division of labor, without which even a stone-age tribe can't function well.

Overall, I liked the movie better. But do recommend the book as because it made me think, bothered me, and made me think about why it bothered me.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 14 at 2014 8:26 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 14 Nov 2014 20:26:01 -0500

Not just no, but HELL NO.

What's being advocated for here is to give the U.S. government the power to disenfranchise all citizens and then re-enfranchise only those who are deemed worthy by arbitrary criteria. Am I the only one who sees the lunacy in this and the sheer unmatched potential for abuse and tyranny? What happens when federal service isn't deemed enough? When you give the federal government the power to set goal posts, you inherently give them the power to move them. I'm not being hyperbolic when I say this would be the death of our nation and of the freedoms we cherish.