Education of our enlisted soldiers: Should they receive a bump in pay for having a college degree in their career field?

2014-12-21T11:52:40-05:00

Over the years our enlisted corp. has become significantly more educated but the pay difference has remained significantly large. Do you believe the army should do something about the pay gap for the soldiers who work hard and get a college degree.
Also the amount of tasking the average NCO gets are a lot of times something the officers use to be solely responsible for i.e. S.O.P and various other things I saw it time and time AGIAN officers leaning on their NCO's to help or do tasks that are in their lane I am not saying this is wrong or even not needed but should they be finically compensated for the additional responsibilities if they have a college degree?

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 21 at 2014 2:44 PM

2014-12-21T14:44:06-05:00

I think this is a good idea, SSG Ike Phelan. It would motivate enlisted Soldiers to pursue civilian education, and it would not require a major re-working of the pay system. Extra pay for a college degree could be treated something like language proficiency pay.

That said, it might be a tough sell in these tough fiscal times.

Response by TSgt Joshua Copeland made Dec 21 at 2014 7:44 PM

2014-12-21T19:44:58-05:00

Not sure this would work in the AF. Check out our demographics.

http://www.afpc.af.mil/library/airforcepersonneldemographics.asp

Air Force Personnel Center - Air Force Personnel Demographics

Response by TSgt Joshua Copeland made Dec 21 at 2014 9:34 PM

2014-12-21T21:34:49-05:00

SSG Ike Phelan , don't soldiers already get promotion points for completing college classes/degrees?

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 21 at 2014 11:14 PM

2014-12-21T23:14:12-05:00

Nope, unless they can prove it helps out in the big picture.

Anyone know someone that let getting a degree get in the way of doing their job?

"Don't let schooling interfere with your education."

That said I think degree's do help, but at what cost would paying people to get a degree in their MOS, AFSC, or NEC be? Do you think the DOD would pay for that? Given their fear of upping the GI bill might cause people to exit the military.

Response by SSG Ike Phelan made Dec 23 at 2014 9:32 AM

2014-12-23T09:32:59-05:00

I just want to thank everyone for your response to the question I just would like to let you know if your are enlisted and you do not agree with this I just think you should realize that you are saying your subordinates should not be reward for their hard work and that you should not be either. I have no clue why any enlisted person would argue against a pay raise for bettering them selves it is not required and not all jobs require a degree to make it past E-7 so I believe a majority of our service members do it to become better members of society and that should be rewarded with more then just a promotion CW5 Scott Montgomery said it best. If you have abetter idea please post it and please if you do not have a solution or a valid point do not post on this string I am not trying to change the military I just wanted to see how others felt about it and have a educated discussion on the matter. Once AGIAN thank you and I look forward to reading more comments.

Response by SPC Daniel Bowen made Dec 23 at 2014 11:06 AM

2014-12-23T11:06:47-05:00

As much as I agree with you SFC Williams Laws, at the same time, promotions do not always come when they should for either well deserved soldiers or simply promotions are limited. It is like a raise, but then again I have seen many soldiers with degrees and not see a promotion for years and yet their degree did help bring additional knowledge and skills to the unit. I think its a "hit or miss" when it comes to promotions especially seeing as each unit, MOS and chain of commands are different. I think there should be a raise in pay for individuals who come in with degrees or who earn one while in service. Promotions can occur with or without college coursework and its awarded based on their work, knowledge and dedication to the military, not to school. But with that being said, there should be a fixed amount of pay increase that doesn't increase with their pay grade. Example: Associates degree earns you an extra $150 per month and bachelors earns you $250 extra per month. Now it may not seem as a lot, but as a young soldier it can mean a lot and lets face it, who wouldn't be okay with an extra $1800 or $3000 a year? Now it can be even less, heck I would have been content with an extra $1000 year.
Now take that into account, now you have the ability to take the funds from supporting military families that can't afford a whole lot and now giving it to them if they take the initiative to get a higher education. They are rewarded for their efforts and now the military, units and special groups don't need to support those families as much.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 23 at 2014 11:09 AM

2014-12-23T11:09:45-05:00

I'm just going to suggest, isn't the Army paying for your college, compensation? I don't know about active duty, but I've never met a Guardsman, whose college hadn't been paid for by the State or by Uncle Sam.

Response by 1SG Steven Stankovich made Dec 23 at 2014 12:52 PM

2014-12-23T12:52:45-05:00

This is a very interesting question SSG Ike Phelan. Today's enlisted force is significantly more educated than we were when I joined the Army. Soldiers who have a college degree when they enlist enter the service as either a PFC or a SPC. That degree will assist them significantly to move up the ranks with the additional promotional points that they possess. Centralized boards also look very favorably on those who possess degrees. By looking at pay associated with moving up the ranks in a quicker fashion than your peers is one way to reap the financial benefits of possessing a college degree.

I was told a long, long time ago that the pay gap between the enlisted and officer corps is not specifically tied to the college education. It is associated with the level of responsibility difference between the enlisted and officer corps. Some may argue the different degrees of responsibility and such, but at the end of the day it was my PL, not me as PSG, that was ultimately on the blame line if things went south. It was the same for my CO CDRs when I was a 1SG. While by level of responsibility was very encompassing, the CDR was ultimately the one responsible for the Company. Even though there are a larger number of tasks and duties that NCOs are responsible for that may have been traditionally fell into the "officer lane," at the end of the day, the officer is still overall responsible for success, failure, property accountability, etc.

Personally, I would like to see some sort of additional pay for enlisted who hold a degree. It could vary depending on the level of the degree held and could be something similar to FLPP for those who possess language skills. That is just my personal view. I do not believe though that education alone is enough to significantly close the pay gap between the enlisted and officer corps.

Response by SGT Kristin Wiley made Dec 23 at 2014 4:27 PM

2014-12-23T16:27:50-05:00

Would I enjoy the pay increase? Most definitely. There is compensation in other ways though. For those of us using Tuition Assistance, we have already had a good portion of our education paid for. In certain units, education will help you make rank. The issue I foresee is that all my friend in a combat MOS claim they don't have time to take classes. While I've seen many of these soldiers spending all their free time drinking it up with their buddies, some might have a legitimate point. If all soldiers are afforded the same opportunities (around mission requirements) to attend college classes then I am all for it. However, I don't think this will ever be the case. I don't see it as equal when an unit with a high operational tempo can't modify the battle rhytmn to allow soldiers to attend classes in order to get this pay increase. I am all for expanding educational programs, modifying promotion requirements (less PT/weapons focused, more leadership education focused), providing more opportunities to attend military schools, and routes to become an officer.

Response by MAJ(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 24 at 2014 6:14 PM

2014-12-24T18:14:35-05:00

I don't think Enlisted Soldiers should get extra pay for having a degree any more than Officers of the same rank should. However, a Soldier who goes the extra mile to get a degree is setting themselves apart from their peers when they do get out of the military. This is not universally true, but in general it holds water. If two SFCs retire and apply for the same job, the one with a degree in an applicable field might be at an advantage depending on the degree.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 25 at 2014 4:56 AM

2014-12-25T04:56:13-05:00

This would not work in my opinion. How many civilian schools have infantry/armor/artillery as a major. I understand what you're asking. But if this were to be implemented, Soldiers in the afore mentioned MOS's would suffer.

Response by 1SG Mike Case made Dec 25 at 2014 6:04 PM

2014-12-25T18:04:45-05:00

If you were to say maybe a one time bonus or something like that, then maybe I would agree, but to say someone will be paid an extra $300 (arbitrary number) a month for the rest of their career, then I will be one of those NCO's that you say are against giving themselves a raise. The Army, in my opinion, pays out too much money as it. I believe that the Army shouldn't give flight pay, jump, FLPP, or any other type of monthly pay. If it was something along the lines of a one-time bonus of $500 for an Associates degree, I would say sure. But why should the Army pay someone an extra $300 (just picking this amount) for the rest of their career for a one-time achievement? Now, going off of the "$500 for an Associates" plan, then we could give a one-time bonus of $1000 for a Bachelor's. We could give a $2000 bonus for a Master's It would motivate Soldiers to continue to push themselves to better themselves. But to simply pay them a monthly bonus for the rest of their career, to me is a waste of money. Do we pay Soldiers who attend the hard military school's a bonus too? Not saying it is the norm, but I have seen the NCO's who spend all their extra time earning that degree, lack in the military schools, because they are always busy with school. I have seen NCO's with a Masters degree, but on their ERB, their isn't any military schools. The Soldier's who graduate the 35T school are awarded 62 college credits for their AIT. So, are we saying for graduating AIT, they should get a monthly bonus for the rest of their career? I am all for giving a one-time bonus for an achievement like that, but a monthly stipend for the rest of their career, I wouldn't sign off on that.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Jan 9 at 2018 9:42 PM

2018-01-09T21:42:13-05:00

Here's my perspective. I have two college degrees. I used Tuition Assistance to pay for both of them. No student debt. So I have three years of GI Bill to give to my son. So after paying for two degrees AND three years of college for my son do I expect the Army to give me even MORE money? No. That's just greedy.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 9 at 2018 9:49 PM

2018-01-09T21:49:38-05:00

I like this idea. It could help with retention in some of the more technical fields and it would motivate our Soldiers to be more professional about their career field. There should be a tiered system and each MOS or CMF should have an acceptable degree list. For example: CMF 25 would do well motivating those Soldiers to pursue CS, MIS, IT, etc degrees. Infantry and other "non-technical" combat arms MOSs could benefit from something like management, leadership, public administration, etc where they are given more organizational skills.

Response by CMSgt Kevin White made Sep 26 at 2018 7:41 PM

2018-09-26T19:41:44-04:00

Absolutely! This work was put in on their own time and will make the individual and service better.

In fact, there must be a formal education medal and ribbon with a cluster for each degree. A doctors degree would be three clusters.

Payment will also make others take the initiative and make the nation and its services better.

Moreover, who will be the person waking around without a formal education ribbon?

Service members would also become extremely certified in the civilian sector when it is time to leave the service.

Dr CMSgt Kevin A White

Response by CMSgt Kevin White made Sep 26 at 2018 7:43 PM

2018-09-26T19:43:58-04:00

QUESTION: Why so many “NO” responses? Is it because this group does not want to put on the mind enhancing educational work?

NOTE: We are not in 1718...we are in 2018 and service members must evolve mentally.