Ethical lapses in the military... is this a growing issue?

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 06 Feb 2014 13:43:48 -0500

Certification cheating scandals, sexual misconduct, refer-a-buddy program abuse, toxic leaders; is the military facing a crisis of ethics within our ranks?  These embarassing stories keep appearing in the media these days.  Typically military leaders have ranked very high among some of the most trusted professions, holding company with nurses and teachers at the top of trusted ethical professions.  If that is the case, why are we seeing and hearing about so many lapses in ethical judgement these days?  We are a Profession of Arms, grounded in values of trust, honor, and integrity!  Why are we seeing so many leaders embarassing the service?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 6 at 2014 1:51 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 06 Feb 2014 13:51:41 -0500

I feel like ethical breaches are highly due to the overly sensitive reform the military has taken. Somewhere along the lines people forgot about the history of the American Military and started letting some kind of media fueld emotional freak show dictate how we mold our future. It's makes me sad to think that my grandfther froze his *** off in the chosin resivoir to provide the building blocks of this military only to have it end up how it has.

Response by LTC David S. Chang, ChFC®, CLU® made Feb 6 at 2014 1:56 PM

LTC David S. Chang, ChFC®, CLU® — Thu, 06 Feb 2014 13:56:46 -0500

I think this goes beyond the military, it has more to do with the "fog of power" or the power of leadership. When they surveyed CEO of large companies, top political figures, top generals, and those that are very successful, in their minds they tend to think they can get what they want. So in essence the rules apply but not to themselves.<div><br></div><div>There was an interesting article on this recently after the Petraeus incident. John Edwards, Spitzer, Weiner, etc. all thought they could get away with it because before they probably did. I think as their power and esteem grow, their ego grows as well and you think you can be above the law. </div><div><br></div><div>Of course that is incorrect and while we are human and make mistakes, we should always ground ourselves. We should have accountability partners or teams to make sure we keep ourselves in check.</div><div><br></div><div>I think overall the issue is that we have more people, more money and power than we have ever had in history, so it comes with the territory with human nature. So we have to be more vigilant. </div>

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 6 at 2014 2:11 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 06 Feb 2014 14:11:00 -0500

On an additional note, the stories that usually make the headlines only make it there due to the rank of the offenders. You never hear about sex/cheating scandals involving an E-2, nobody wants to read that. But let a O-7 send a provocative text to somebody and all of a sudden it's national news. I agree with MAJ Chang, it's not just us. And I don't think it's an issue within our ranks, it's a few isolated incidents that get blown up by the media

Response by 1SG Steven Stankovich made Feb 6 at 2014 2:18 PM

1SG Steven Stankovich — Thu, 06 Feb 2014 14:18:05 -0500

I think that in some of these scandals, misconducts, toxicity, etc, it may not be a case of an "ethical lapse" as it may be that the individual(s) were finally caught/turned in.  Some who do bad things have been doing bad things for a long time.  What may have started as a small infraction that may have warranted a "slap on the wrist" if caught, has now escalated into much more serious offenses because the person(s) was not caught/stopped/turned in/talked to/reprimanded when the behavior first began.  People who get away with smaller crimes tend to get more bold as they continue down that path.  While some of the incidents that have gained national and international light may be that person(s) lapse in ethical judgment, I do believe that for some, they finally got caught.

Response by Maj Chris Nelson made Feb 6 at 2014 2:59 PM

Maj Chris Nelson — Thu, 06 Feb 2014 14:59:46 -0500

My own personal feelings on this are that the media has WAY too much access to military issues. I am at Malmstrom AFB...enough said on that one..... I feel that the media should never have been brought in on many/all of these types of issues. It only causes concern and negitive feelings towards the military when there is already less then stellar feelings about us in the first place.

Response by LTC Chad Storlie made Feb 6 at 2014 3:03 PM

LTC Chad Storlie — Thu, 06 Feb 2014 15:03:25 -0500

Here is my Op-Ed on military ethics problems that was just published in several newspapers:

http://www.americanhomecomings.com/news/2014/02/06/military-leaders-learn-thing-two-business-leaders-column/

Military leaders could learn a thing or two from business leaders (Column)

Chad Storlie makes a case for why U.S. military leaders should look to business to see how it dealt with overcoming ethical issues. Continue reading →

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 6 at 2014 9:12 PM

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 06 Feb 2014 21:12:59 -0500

Though I am dismayed of the constant stories I am hearing, personally, I do not feel as though it is necessarily a growing issue. It has been going on for a long time and will continue to do so. There are multiple reasons it seems to be spinning out of control. Now, social media plays a huge part in what we hear. Stories are broadcast more widely. I'm sure I'm not the only one that has seen a single photograph on Facebook (think the mold issue in the barracks posted on a page that got the attention of the senior leadership within a day) can literally create waves. After years of inaction, small things are now starting to be handled as swiftly as possible to avoid embarrassment. <div>Also, to add to what SFC Deason stated, somewhere deep down inside, we all love a good scandal. There is also that sense of vindication when you see someone knocked off of their high horse. All of us have seen people get away with stuff because of their status, money, connections or something else. We all hated it. Though I wish he'd already have been deported, look at Bieber. It seems everyone is outraged at his blatant disrespect for others. I always like to leave room for doubt by never using words like "everyone" and "all", but I have a feeling pretty much everyone wants to see him held accountable for his actions, rather than thumb his nose at authority. I'm not saying its right or wrong, but it is human nature. </div><div>MAJ Chang, I've read articles on that also, and the one that stuck with me the most was the study of psychopaths. It is a trait that is very common to those on top. CEOs are more likely to be psychopaths, than say for instance, nurses (least likely). These traits are what allow them to be more cold, heartless, and in return, successful. They are detached and keep their eye on the prize. They are not bothered by those annoying feelings of empathy and genuine concern for others. We do need these type in the world, but it comes with a cost. IMHO, I see these types more and more in leadership positions. They accomplish the mission. Some of them are also these toxic leaders I hear so much about, but no one seems to care. Some of them are able to channel their energies for positive results. I am disheartened that for me, it seems so rare to see what I feel is a good and effective leader. I understand what constitutes good leadership varies from person to person, so what I think is poor leadership may be conceived as great from another perspective. </div><div>In agreement with MSG Stankovich, if someone does something and gets away with it, it adds to a sense of invincibility. To use myself for an example, I tend to speed. If the speed limit is 65, I'm more than likely going 70- 72. I'm probably not going to get pulled over as long as I keep it within 7 MPH over. However, now I'm on the open highway with light traffic and no cop in sight. I might push it a bit more. Just for good measure, I'll add in a radar detector to build my confidence even more. I make it safely to my destination, rinse and repeat. I drive this route for months adding a bit more speed each week. One day a cop pops out of nowhere and gives me a ticket when I'm speeding. I'm upset because I've always done it and it became a second nature. It doesn't mean I was right when I wasn't getting caught. As a result, I'll probably slow my roll, but the damage has already been done. Now, I'm stuck with an expensive ticket and blaming it on the cop. (Not a true story, BTW) When we get away with something, the thrill is just there to push the envelope. It is hard to stop doing something, even if you know its wrong, if you are doing it and getting away with it.</div><div>My final aspect (for now) is that the military is downsizing. It's dog eat dog. Even if someone has their own skeletons, some of the smarter ones have learned to shine the light on someone else, so there is no focus on them. I am a bit afraid of what the future holds when brothers sell out brothers, just to protect themselves. With that being said, I would like to acknowledge all of those that worked hard, did what they needed to do and set themselves apart from their peers in a positive manner. Many of the sly ones that are good at politicking are the ones that will survive, while we will see great leaders sent packing. As a result of the toxic leaders either squeezing out the good ones, or just driving them away, there will be issues. Incidents will continue to occur that will bring embarrassment to the military. For career progression, it is almost more beneficial to be a toxic leader. As long as there are toxic leaders, corruption will prevail. Once someone gets wind of the indiscretions, it can take a simple statement, photograph, post or other utterance to blow the story up and make it seem as if we are all bad. We can rescue 1,000 kittens from a burning building, however, if we accidentally break one's leg, we are horrible horrible people. </div>

Response by SSG Oliver Mathews made Feb 6 at 2014 11:55 PM

SSG Oliver Mathews — Thu, 06 Feb 2014 23:55:14 -0500

I dont think the number of issues is growing. I think the number off issues being blown out of proportion is growing. I also believe that the priorities of the media and other outlets are completely wrong.

A soldier dies in Afghanistan. not even a headline, subtext or mention on national news.

A senior leader sleeps with a woman that isnt his wife. Media Frenzy.

With our military being as big as it is, you will always have infidelity, and issues of moral and ethical dealings. But now more than ever people want controversy and the media does not care if they make any entity look bad for a profit.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 7 at 2014 7:24 AM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 07 Feb 2014 07:24:02 -0500

/open can of worms

Sir,

This touches a nerve for me, stemming from the "time honored phrase...If you ain't cheatin', you ain't tryin'..." every time I hear this I about lose my mind. I know sometimes we all need help, but not being able to do something you're supposed to do on your own (like a test) or just trying to find a way to "win" (whatever competition you think proves you're a "Bad Dude") proves to me that there is a severe breakdown in our values (as Soldiers/Sailors/Airmen/Marines). If it is a part of someone's culture, when does it need to stop? When can we rightly assert that "crib notes" for your SSD3, or ALC-Common Core is just as wrong as the notes for the nuclear missileers?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 7 at 2014 7:31 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 07 Feb 2014 07:31:10 -0500

There is this attitude today "if you ain't cheating, you ain't tryin". I hear people say it all the time and I know it's not my generation.<div>I have seen senior NCO s handing each other discs with the answers to SSD classes and they were probably the same ones that were doing the same with the correspondence courses years ago. </div><div>Electronics make cheating all too easy.</div>

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 7 at 2014 12:00 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 07 Feb 2014 12:00:20 -0500

I think to get to the root of the problem would require a review of our institutions that grow leaders in the first place. I'm talking about our military academies, ROTC, OCS, WLC, ALC, etc. Especially when looking at senior officers, back when they were students and cadets, most were probably subjected to abuses of power in the form of hazing and cheating from the very beginning. I experienced my fair share of this when I was going through ROTC at a senior military institute myself. I would argue that the way we learn to behave as leaders is mostly learned from the examples that are set before us. What we see others get away with, leads us to believe that it is acceptable to act that way ourselves. If senior leaders are not held accountable for their actions, what is to stop the next group of leaders from behaving the same way?

Response by MAJ Raúl Rovira made Feb 7 at 2014 12:29 PM

MAJ Raúl Rovira — Fri, 07 Feb 2014 12:29:48 -0500

Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely.<br>

Response by TSgt Scott Hurley made Feb 7 at 2014 2:44 PM

TSgt Scott Hurley — Fri, 07 Feb 2014 14:44:37 -0500

I see this problem being the fact that the military is becoming to Politically Correct. You can't yell at anyone, you have to give them the highest rating because you like them or it will hurt their career. The list could go on. I know I saw it first hand. An individual was going to give someone they rated on a lower rating. But someone higher said give them a 5 because if you give them the lower rating it will hurt them. Also, I believe they were also trying to say that they wanted to ensure that person got a medal when they left.

The mentality of being buddy buddy with someone has become pervasive. Especially when it comes to leadership. The Military needs to get off the Political Correctness band wagon and put back the core of what it means to be a US MILITARY MEMBER.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 10 at 2014 10:38 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 10 Feb 2014 10:38:34 -0500

Just a little update for this thread. I've seen some articles online about the Secretary of Defense making is making ethical lapses a top priority. GEN Dempsey seems to be highly involved and concerned about the issue as well.

"It is not the war that has caused this. It is the pace, and our failure to understand that at that pace, we were neglecting the tools that manage us as a profession over time," Dempsey said. "This challenge didn't accumulate overnight, and it won't be solved overnight."

"Acts of crime, misconduct, ethical breaches, command climate, and stupidity each require a distinct solution," he added. "But the overall solution is attenion to who we are as a profession. And that's my focus." - GEN Dempsey

Hagel hints at ethics enforcer

He did not disclose the individual he'd appoint but said an announcement would be made soon.

Response by PO1 William "Chip" Nagel made Apr 7 at 2014 12:21 AM

PO1 William "Chip" Nagel — Mon, 07 Apr 2014 00:21:54 -0400

Being at the peak of the Information Age is it just out there? or does the current military have a serious Moral, Ethical Problem? Probably a little bit of both. I'm sure to some degree this was going on while I was in but was hushed up, covered over, brushed under the carpet but in todays age that is proabably impossible.

Response by Capt Jeff S. made Jul 21 at 2014 9:09 PM

Capt Jeff S. — Mon, 21 Jul 2014 21:09:11 -0400

Our military reflects the society it comes from and as these virtues lapse from our society, we see the same reflected in those serving in the military. It's sad.

Response by PO3 John Jeter made Jul 23 at 2014 3:15 PM

PO3 John Jeter — Wed, 23 Jul 2014 15:15:41 -0400

I really don't think we are seeing an increase in the actual numbers, per se, of ethical violations. I believe that what we are actually seeing, is the media playing the numbers game. Since it became popular to serve again, the media has demonstrated that they can increase their "ratings" by publicizing stories about popular subjects. The service has always been a favorite "whipping boy" for the media because they really don't have an effective way to fight back. By no means am I downplaying the serious nature of the violations. Those who violate their trust must be held accountable. We should however, be aware of the ease in which the media can start and fuel a witch hunt. "Toxic Leaders" , "sexual misconduct" and "program abuse".....three of the oldest types of stories that exist. As a journalist, if you can combine any two of these items in a story, your career is enhanced. Cheating is an iffy quality in a story. (use of calculators in class would have been called cheating when I was in grade school).
I believe that there is a constant struggle to maintain a high level of Honor, and Integrity amongst our military. As long as that struggle continues to be waged with strength, Trust will come. The simple fact that people like yourself are concerned about the levels of those qualities is a good indicator that they still exist.

Response by SGT Scott Curtice made Oct 22 at 2014 8:02 PM

SGT Scott Curtice — Wed, 22 Oct 2014 20:02:36 -0400

Is it a growing issues, or is social media and the 24 hr news cycle just shining a spotlight that wasn't present in the past?

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 15 at 2014 10:26 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 15 Dec 2014 10:26:25 -0500

Good judgment, while worthy of attention, is not newsworthy.

Imagine the headlines: "Navy Skipper Makes Good Decision Not to Run Ship Aground"; "Army SARP Leader Does His Job"; "USAF Drill Instructor Does Not Rape Recruits."

I'm certainly not excusing the ethical lapses that do happen, but there is a silver lining. Ethical lapses get attention because we are still held to a higher standard than other professions.

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 16 at 2014 12:09 AM

PO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 16 Dec 2014 00:09:13 -0500

Maybe the problem isn't an ethical lapse that is suddenly occurring. Perhaps instead it isn't being swept over the rug. Hazing is no longer tolerated. Equal opportunity is (hopefully) strictly enforced. Sexual harassment and assault is being taken more seriously than ever before. Leaders were probably around when this sort of thing wasn't as big of an issue. Now that it is, a scrub of the bad guys is simply bound to happen. I wouldn't worry. After all this, things will be much better. A military member can proudly serve without fear of degradation or humiliation. The new generation will know this and will do things the right way.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 16 at 2014 2:20 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 16 Dec 2014 02:20:23 -0500

We see these stories within all three of the trusted groups that you mention. Teachers, Nurses, and Soldiers make head lines regularly for conducting these unethical acts. Individuals that are not in these groups are even more likely to commit these types of acts. The primary reason is that our country had allowed Christianity to be pushed out of nearly every aspect of our lives, especially within the military. Religion that teaches not to do these things and how to become a better person. Until it is brought back, these matters will only get worse. Secondly, as a society we've began to have sympathy for individuals that commit crime and attempt some form of rehabilitation rather than firm punishment for their actions. This takes away the primary deterrent for committing crimes.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 16 at 2014 3:49 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 16 Dec 2014 03:49:02 -0500

Sir, IMHO, the problem is bigger than that. It's expecting today's military to be a group of professionals. If that is what congress wants, that's what they will get; but that is going to be at the sacrifice of the best warfighters. The soldiers, airmen, sailors, and marines that are the best at their job have quirks. Think about what it is they do. There are many great leaders out there, but as far as I have seen, there are more qualified leaders in the nco ranks than in the officer ranks. And there aren't enough there either.

I am surrounded by people that brag about how far behind they are in work. I am by no means perfect. I frequently get so caught up in working things at the office, I forget to get out for things like haircuts until after its beyond a little in need. Still within regs, but not be much.

I have worked with more than 20 cpt at this duty station, and to date, only 2 are the type of leaders that should continue further. They care about their people. Leaders from the top continue to preach about being involved with their soldiers, but I have yet to see it, aside from the 2 cpt that I just worked with. I see it from all sides. It's really about being involved. I don't care if it is a private or a 3 star, their leadership should be involved. They aren't. I've seen new leadership come in and promise things they ultimately can't deliver; unless they fire 3/4 or more of the staff. There is too much complacency, too many people worried about self and not subordinates. I have NEVER received an initial counseling in the almost 4 years I've been in the army. If it wasn't for the s1's I probably wouldn't even get an annual. My greeting to my new supervisor was being told that I'm a piece of shit and oh I'm your supervisor. Worded differently, but only by a couple words. I have been told by the bde xo to vtip to 53, the IA manager told me to reclass to 17a, but I'd rather go to med school and go to the air force or navy.

The dirtbags chase anyone interested in a career out as fast as they can. I've seen oers claiming some officer was the best officer he's ever worked with. This same officer told someone let's take this outside so I can beat your ass you piece of sh*t. In front of an entire toc. The bc's response was that said officer would have nothing happen to him, because he's good at his job, operations planning.

There is some stuff that I could use as examples, but will not put it out in this forum.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 18 at 2014 6:33 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 18 Dec 2014 06:33:21 -0500

When I was a PVT (1999) officers were beyond reproach. They seemingly never made mistakes. Drill Sergeants were the epitome of professionalism and by the end of my first week in Basic I knew I wanted to be an NCO. Every word they spoke sounded as though it was directly quoted from regulation. Perhaps the old leadership seemed perfect to me because they hid their flaws from privates. I don't know if ethical lapses is leadership are more prevalent now, or I am just aware of them because I am now a part of that leadership. I am fairly certain that the media has a lot to do with my view of leadership too. In 1999-2000 I never saw a news story about a General cheating on his wife. Is that because it never happened, or is it because it wasn't reported in the news? I don't know, but that is a good answer.

Response by SPC Christopher Smith made Dec 18 at 2014 9:06 AM

SPC Christopher Smith — Thu, 18 Dec 2014 09:06:11 -0500

CPT Private RallyPoint Member the law of the land seemed to be pass the blame to the subordenients for a long time. It only seems that now with social media adding extra pressure on transparency in all things that leaders are getting caught and actually getting punished for many things that have been going on before. In order to fix the problems we need to hold those at the top more accountable for there actions. If not you create a culture in which one only needs to reach the top to gain the most protection from their actions. That toxic way of thinking will make its way down to the bottom of the organization quickly, and overtime become the base of leadership development. I know I heard very early in my career, and I'm sure many others have, "with rank comes privilege". We need to get rid of that concept.

Response by GySgt Brian Robinson made Dec 18 at 2014 2:54 PM

GySgt Brian Robinson — Thu, 18 Dec 2014 14:54:57 -0500

The Military draws it's ranks from society and with lowering recruiting standards and the decline of morals and ethics in society you end up with what we have today.

Response by SGT Je Moua made Dec 19 at 2014 8:40 PM

SGT Je Moua — Fri, 19 Dec 2014 20:40:03 -0500

There needs to be an annual medal for those who served with high moral values. Is there?

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 20 at 2014 3:00 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 20 Dec 2014 03:00:47 -0500

I don't think it is really anything new. This has always been the case. We are all human and will fail. I am not trying to justify our failures but even the past our leaders have had these lapses. We shouldn't deny their success or impact on history due to a lapse but our media will do anything for an exciting story. This plays well to their needs. I don't think it is grow but I think it is being caught more and more. It is hard to hide issues today.

Response by SGT Charles Vernier made Dec 20 at 2014 3:07 AM

SGT Charles Vernier — Sat, 20 Dec 2014 03:07:22 -0500

I'm not sure if it's due to an increase in this kind of behavior, or just increased publicity of this kind of behavior. I am willing to bet that the actuall percentage of those involved is less than 1%. It is unfortunate that 1% doing wrong can taint the image of the 99% doing the right thing.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 20 at 2014 3:42 PM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 20 Dec 2014 15:42:05 -0500

It is with great disgust that I post this link, this was my very last 1stSgt when I left active duty in 1997. It seems he may be one of those ones that you are referring, he must have been doing this for years before he was caught. This has strick the Recon community hard, even though he was retired, he defaced a great military career with this simple but grave error (s). This goes to prove that we are under continuous scrutiny upon our exit from service and if we screw up, they will still nail us to the wall.
http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/story/military/crime/2014/11/19/sgt-maj-sixta-generation-kill-child-molestation-sentencing/19298495/

Response by PO3 Delray Dorsey made Dec 21 at 2014 2:55 AM

PO3 Delray Dorsey — Sun, 21 Dec 2014 02:55:33 -0500

Yes

Response by PO3 Aaron Hassay made Dec 21 at 2014 6:20 AM

PO3 Aaron Hassay — Sun, 21 Dec 2014 06:20:36 -0500

Hello Captain,
This is a great question. It is not looked at often enough. It is one that I wish was looked at more often. It goes to the root of society. It looks like you are in the ARMY sir. I was in the NAVY. Have you ever done any research on General Patton? Now I would like to know if that story I read about him online, is true, of him, General Patton, feeling personally disrespected, when improperly greeted, then Manhandling, even assaulting verbally and otherwise, instantly ordering, a wounded soldier, back to the front line, in a military hospital, who was showing definite signs of SHELL SHOCK shacking etc...( PTSD or COMBAT OPERATION STRESS INJURIES)

Now if this story is false then my question is of no consequence.

This still sheds some light on, WALL TO WALL or FAN ROOM COUNSELING, a subject directly affects me, till this day, honoraby discharged following every order, courageously, without thought of right or wrong, taking more stress then 100 mules, cracking slowly, my youth and vigor and anger the only thing keeping me going that I relied on, but cracking sad, confused inside, hazarordous duties, days on end, a human mule, unable to trust another work assignment, or civilian job, ever, threatening even bosses, I have had, feeling anxiety at the mere thought of being controlled ever again. How many street fights have I been in? 1 put me in the hospital? How much risky behavior have I had? How much drinking unconscious?

But if the story is true, and brute force, and GI JOE officer, -IM GOD-Mentallity-NO EMPATHY mentality-No fear of UCMJ-No Fear of anything mentality-The Ability to Crush any investigation-The ability to crush any type of reflection of negativity back on someone who would do this to a wounded or otherwise junior ranking service member for any reason, needs to stop and stop quick in officer training ROTC or at the CADET Colleges.

I was physically assaulted in the middle of the ocean for no reason other then a slight uniform infraction, overworked undertrained, by someone old enough to be my dad, and me young enough to not know what to do, but get chaotic inside and destroy my sense of safety.

The question is how do senior enlisted or officers develop a sense, of well, not doing this?

I know the military is the military. But I just don't see how the Major League MLB or NFL or any other top notch organization team atmosphere gets better at completely threatening each other. That team is going to be broken soon. People can only live under threat so long. IF they are not doing it under their own free will with courage then it is manipulation.

And muniplution is secondary to HONOR AND COURAGE!

Lastly, we need to fund, more fully, the Military, health care, pay, etc.

It is a place where the top Brass are trying to get a "BUDGET" human force to do the dirty work, to keep this nation tops in nearly every financial category.

We say we have all this wealth.

Yet, with my PTSD and my enlistment package, served honorably. I am getting the RUN around from the VA. I am on foodstamps. I am 2 months out from seeing a primary physician just to get a physical.

And then there are unlimited amounts of lawyers to hekp kids who just got here from mexico city a year ago get all sorts of benefits.

I am sort of frozen on this.

I don't want to act like a weak human. I am not weak. If you met me. If you saw me. You would say that is a man. But every man needs support. I gave my all. ANd now that I am asking for support, I am finding it hard to get, and strung along, scared, sick, and injured.

Response by SGT David Williams made Dec 21 at 2014 11:30 AM

SGT David Williams — Sun, 21 Dec 2014 11:30:59 -0500

Information is more redily accessed and distributed than any other time in history. Unfortunatly, I believe the values, pride, honor, and integrity of people is being erroded in America and replaced by self indulgence instead of self-sacrifice.

Response by SPC David S. made Dec 21 at 2014 10:21 PM

SPC David S. — Sun, 21 Dec 2014 22:21:33 -0500

I feel this is largely due to an ever increasing gap between personal morality and social morality. This gap is the result of one internalizing these failures as society not caring for the individual so in turn one shouldn't care about society. One should only need to be concerned about themselves. As this has slowly happened social morality has been replaced with law thus making law our new moral compass. However I find this troubling as the law is easily conflicted. For example law says it is wrong to kill yet the law says its ok to kill as a form of punishment. Another example is when the supreme count said an individual has the right to lie yet the law defines this as perjury if one does it in court. So law if very conflicted as where social morality would say it is wrong to lie as there are socially negative consequences if none could trust anyone. As the social aspect of morality is removed the individual morality also begins to take center stage and with focus shifting to the individual's needs again society pays the price with an ever decreasing obligation of an individual having to society. The result of all of this is what we see today more and more entitlement programs that address the concern of the individual over the well fare of society. What the means is that individuals that have a strong moral standing will be viewed as being intolerant. One that lacks any moral malleability is now viewed as being wrong for holding true which means that there exist no standards by which anyone has the right to judge others.

Response by PO3 Aaron Hassay made Dec 24 at 2014 5:08 AM

PO3 Aaron Hassay — Wed, 24 Dec 2014 05:08:18 -0500

Captain.
I ask respectively do you have any suggestions for solutions to such ethical lapses from seniors, those in leadership, in the military? Since you are an officer, I would gather you can talk with authority, from recruiting, training, education, rising in authority, and actual on the field implantation, on what creates or allows for these UCMJ lapses.
Thanks in Advance

Response by PO3 Aaron Hassay made Dec 26 at 2014 6:14 AM

PO3 Aaron Hassay — Fri, 26 Dec 2014 06:14:43 -0500

I am not such a doomsayer as to "DAMN" the whole system and throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Actually I am proud to be an American.

Every culture, Every color of human, every human who divides on a thought of god and religious line(jew christian and muslim), every nation(south Africa, Israel, Italy, Russia, Iran, Australia, and Iceland Even), every army, every family has its criminals and abusers and I would believe at least 1 jail.

I can not judge the entire American Army Navy etc on a few bad apples or ego maniacs, or half baked, half evolved perverted sexual criminals who would harass or even sexually assault another human. I think it would be a logical conclusion to state that a majority of people in the Military have decent morals.

And if we really really really individually reached for the highest ideals in our own lives of what our NATION America seems to stand for such as LIBERTY and JUSTICE for ALL, or things like this, then we are on our way, inching closer, and evolving into a better place then before.

No road is without bumps.

Humans did not, I believe, asked to be put upon this, earth, and this reality.

We are easily scared. We are easily frightened. At Birth generally you will cry.

What am I saying?

Well, a thought comes to my head.

I flip my thought and bring back a thought that sort of starts to round this out.

If that asshole that beat my ass threatened my life verbally and physically, using his rank and age, and position on the ship, to basically ensure, I was going to take a beating and not do anything about it, with certain fear, I would be squashed left right up and down, no matter what way I turned, I had no way to prove I was assaulted vicsously for no good reason, I would shut up and let that asshole somehow keep his ego and spirit intact, and me to fall apart slowly and assuredly for the next 15 years, and get in a lot of street fights and be humbled, usually winning, getting into a boxing gym then mma gym, meeting real fighters who would tear and break your arm off and hand it back to you and then share a beer with you, without having to be angry, then I would have never known what it was to be a real man.

I do not know what, or if this asshole Master Chief ever would realize that state of humble, this state of respect, that I did learn, not to abuse, my power, now developed on weaker people just because I can, and I am trained to do maximum damage, and proven it, without rank, without weapons, developed a different sense of peace, that I can show a unique compassion on the world, developed around not bullying and using the mind to interact intellectually.

I think if most so called MEN, would learn, true humbleness, the ability to fight, hand and fist, take a beating, with an opponent, that is of similar weight, similar ability, or even better, with a real possibility of loosing, and actually loosing sometimes, having to battle life and death situations, and finding respect for humans through this, and themselves, and there ability, then I think the world would start to be a better place.

What I fear is happening, is we live in a world, where we have sheep, who think they are men, who if it was not for their uniform, or title, or stripe, would crap their pants, roll up in a ball, scream mercy or intantly tap, when a real LION, met them in a dark alley, and they were now the preyed upon.

But what happens is those weak men, who want to be men, finally realize "WOW" I have this fake identity, sort of like putting "LIP STICK on a pig" and with a stripe on their arm, and fuked up rules or society, or other weak men, look the other way, while we continue, a culture of bullying.

See it is a society that teaches it kids " do not bully harass or intimidate your classmates in school as it may lead to the kid who is "picked upon" to possibly even sadly commit suicide as it is often reported enough in the news when it does actually occur" But when we create a "class system" or our RANK "to bully" the junior around..we basically "do" as we taught our "KIDS" not to do.

So eventually, sooner then later, we need to learn to be humble, and not do this.

NO MAN or WOMAN should learn or feel better about themselves through bullying.

Something is broken in them if they get off on this.

And somehow we need to get this out of the HUMAN.

There needs to be a new way to develop a HUMBLE EGO.

Response by LCpl Mark Lefler made Mar 28 at 2015 7:37 PM

LCpl Mark Lefler — Sat, 28 Mar 2015 19:37:22 -0400

I think the military ethics issues are in the same line as the police brutality issues and i have to wonder if its driven by power, social disfunction, both or something else.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 2 at 2015 12:14 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 02 Jun 2015 12:14:58 -0400

Hate to say this on here but....this is the major reason I am happy to be departing the service.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 22 at 2015 7:53 AM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 22 Nov 2015 07:53:34 -0500

I think we will find that ethical lapses aren't growing, but that they are actually shrinking. Two things contribute to this line of reasoning. First, we live in a world in which ethical standards are significantly increasing (contrary to popular belief). Diplomacy and fixed borders are the political rule of the day, violent crime is at all time low per capita, women's and minority rights are slowing digging out of the stone age, we are beginning to recognize the damage our words can cause and adjusting our way of life to correct for that, ethical climates are under scrutiny and ethics committees and watchdogs are afforded more voice and respect. In all, we are getting better.

Of course, with that comes the curmudgeonly resistance to change. The nostalgia of times past and the forgotten crimes of history. Hatred for the programs put in place to try and address the horrors of living in a world were its illegal to bludgeon someone (or even touch them in some cases) but ok to belittle others with harsh thoughtless words. Some programs have gone too far, but that's part of the learning process. As we continue to get better, the chafe will drop off and the important parts will stick.

Second, in a world in which it is no longer ok to hide behind the uniform, every breach of ethics is subject to external scrutiny. Several comments mention this already, but the higher number of scandals seems to be related to the higher number of people getting called out for wrongdoing. This is as it should be.

I think we are headed in the right direction. Does this mean that I can't rough up my joes in the field a bit or trade insults with my friends? Maybe, but those had a certain purpose, it was to prepare myself to have the thick skin (both physically and mentally) to afford me the resilience to live in a world like it was back then. I still think we need some resilience (a lot of it), but not just to survive. The question then becomes how do we build resilience without being (or becoming) assholes in the process?

Response by 1LT Richard Myers made Dec 20 at 2015 11:07 AM

1LT Richard Myers — Sun, 20 Dec 2015 11:07:33 -0500

I can answer this with a simple lack of definition of your Military job. With the downsizing, you cut Soldiers' jobs or got them in positions not related to their MOS's. The result of this was the breakdown of organizational integrity, non existent training due to wrong people in assigned positions, and creation of individual uncertainty with their assigned duties. These are only a few things, but the organization morale was destroyed further with the result of toxic leadership within the ranks. The Military inflicted on itself a self inflicted wound of competence by adopting a corporate culture. The Military was never a corporation, but the new leaders, through the new paradigm of forced doctrine and thinking of individuals as pieces, took the Armed Forces down a rabbit hole of epic proportions.

Regards,

Richard