Failure: Hillary Clinton and The Benghazi Incident

SGT Robert Riley — Mon, 04 Apr 2016 12:21:14 -0400

I recently read an article on RallyPoint saying that “hell [is] a special place” for former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and her part in the Benghazi disaster. That she lied to the families of the deceased about her role in that awful episode betrays the fact that this individual, citing psychologist Theodore Millon’s brief description of personality disorders, has a Borderline Personality Disorder comorbid with both a Narcissistic Personality Disorder and Antisocial Personal Disorder. That Clinton callously sacrificed the lives of those soldiers for a political agenda, when a mere order to execute a rescue could have changed the scenario and possibly saved lives when hostile forces overran, sacked and murdered people at the U.S. Consulate in Benghazi, is nothing new to history; it has happened before.

Similar circumstances occurred during the Siege and eventual massacre at the British Residency in Kabul during the Second Anglo-Afghan War in 1879, when the powers that be saw the signs of trouble and yet allowed Sir Louis Cavagnari, Lt. Walter Hamilton, and the rest of the staff to die fighting for their lives against Afghan troops. But let us not hang this on our former Secretary of State alone.

Why didn’t our Commander-in-Chief take a more active role and authorize a rescue attempt? The closet American assets were in Aviano, so why not request British reinforcement? They had even closer assets in Cyprus, such as the RAF and, most likely, their British SAS.

This whole debacle has driven many Monday morning quarterbacks to share their views on what should have or should not have been done. Let me join them: in my opinion, if I had been a senior commander on scene, I would have gladly disobeyed orders to stand down and sacrificed my career in order to to get those people out of the besieged consulate. As part of the Army’s “Warrior Ethos” we are not to leave anybody behind, and yet this is what happened.

We failed Ambassador J. Christopher Stevens, Foreign Service Information Management Officer, Sean Smith and CIA contractors Tyrone S Woods and Glen Doherty.

What we see here in the Benghazi scandal is an example of decaying leadership. Senior officers are not taking responsibility for their actions, NCOs are not behaving like NCOs, and junior-enlisted are emulating the actions of those above them. Everyone is more concerned about the wrongdoing of an individual and not about those who work alongside them. When the truth about Benghazi does come out, how will America react to the findings? Many people will and are saying that the only reason anyone is paying attention to this disaster is because Hillary is a woman.

In my 23 years of service, I have served with women who seized the proverbial moral high ground, and never stood down or relinquished a foot of ground. Besides Hillary, there is the CIA station chief who also refused to allow help to get to the diplomatic compound. He too should be “gifted” with a “special place in hell.” Instead they should both be charged with four counts of negligent homicide. These are not the type of people that we want serving or representing us.

Response by 1stSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 4 at 2016 12:23 PM

1stSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 04 Apr 2016 12:23:34 -0400

So are you suggesting that HRC is free from blame? I would disagree with that.

Response by SMSgt Thor Merich made Apr 4 at 2016 12:30 PM

SMSgt Thor Merich — Mon, 04 Apr 2016 12:30:13 -0400

The entire incident was a failure on many levels and can be blamed on many folks. The lesson learned (which probably will be lost on those in power) is how to avoid this type of incident in the future. The area was too hot and those personnel should have been removed long before it occurred.

However, pulling them out would have been viewed as a failure. So they delayed it until a disaster happened.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 4 at 2016 12:30 PM

Capt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 04 Apr 2016 12:30:36 -0400

What could have been done that night? I am not sure anyone knows for sure.

What concerns me as much was the fabricated stories of why it happened. I watched as people said it was a spontaneous demonstration. Really? How many bring RPGs to a spontaneous demonstration?

I am also concerned with what was told to the families of the lost and with the denials of same. I believe the mother's not the politicians.

Response by LTC Stephen F. made Apr 4 at 2016 12:38 PM

LTC Stephen F. — Mon, 04 Apr 2016 12:38:51 -0400

Thank you for posting your question and laying out a cogent argument SGT Robert Riley.
It will be refreshing when our elected officers of the Federal government and those they appoint from POTUS on down are both responsible and consistently honorable enough to admit when they are wrong.
I was part of the first military service academy class which included women in 1976 where I trained alongside them. I have respect fro each of my classmates although we did not and do not agree on some things. Since I was in the Infantry I did not serve with many women soldiers until after I was trained in my secondary as an ORSA in 1989. Most of the women I worked with were if the finest caliber and honorable in all ways.

Response by SPC David S. made Apr 4 at 2016 1:04 PM

SPC David S. — Mon, 04 Apr 2016 13:04:32 -0400

I'm not so sure America is ready to hear the truth. That we overthrew Libya in an effort to high jack their arms so that we could send them to forces that many would consider terrorists in an attempt to oust Assad so that big money would be able to run a pipeline across two nations that we destabilized and cost millions their lives. And on top of all this it all back fired with Russia now in the driver's seat in the Middle East. Yes it was part of a foreign policy disaster but to be honest I'm more concerned with Hillary and the Clinton Foundation and pay to play - if see was profiting from her position as SoS and disregarding US interests this is a much bigger problem that a CIA op gone sideways. I think much of her email angst is more along these lines and is about hiding this type of pay to play behavior than anything to do with Benghazi. Regardless of if see would have run her emails via proper channels she could have easily still had a private server to conduct such any side deals. So its all speculation and conjecture.

As far as being told to stand down not sure what they were expecting with that order - not sure if it was all a ploy to smoke out Iranian Quds operatives. If it was it was a shitty plan and attempt. Seems like there should have been a QRT or other assets on the ready with all the intel regarding how the situation around Benghazi was deteriorating.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/mar/20/kenneth-timmerman-the-iranian-connection-to-the-be/?page=all

KENNETH TIMMERMAN: The Iranian connection to the Benghazi attacks

In the aftermath of the 2012 Benghazi attack that killed four Americans, Defense Intelligence Agency Director Lt. Gen. Michael T. Flynn tasked the intelligence community for information on Iran’s involvement in the attack.

Response by CPT Jack Durish made Apr 4 at 2016 1:08 PM

CPT Jack Durish — Mon, 04 Apr 2016 13:08:13 -0400

Woulda, shoulda, coulda... It is so hard to know what actually happened let alone what might have happened. Ultimately, the real lesson to be learned here is to choose our leaders better. No matter whom we select, they will make mistakes. However, with better leaders we'll at least trust them. Who could trust Hillary? Or Obama for that matter?

Response by SGT Edward Wilcox made Apr 4 at 2016 1:10 PM

SGT Edward Wilcox — Mon, 04 Apr 2016 13:10:53 -0400

I'm not sure what disappoints me more, the fact that you repeat and regurgitate so many lies that have been so thoroughly debunked by 8 different investigations, or that RallyPoint allowed you to post it in this forum. There was never a "stand down" order. There was no one standing by to go "rescue" those killed. You disgrace the NCO Corps by grandiosely claiming that you would disobey an order that never existed, by joining the "Monday morning quarterbacks", as you call them. The truth about Benghazi has already been told. Your refusal to believe that does not make it false.

Again, RallyPoint, you should be ashamed of yourselves for allowing this to be posted in the Command Post.

Response by CPO Greg Frazho made Apr 4 at 2016 1:15 PM

CPO Greg Frazho — Mon, 04 Apr 2016 13:15:13 -0400

As I've posted elsewhere, along with the art of the compromise (dormant if not dead), the notion of accountability, in other words consequences for action or inaction, is becoming dormant, if it's not there already. What a swell example of leadership whereby the commander in chief and the secretary of state have divested themselves of any of the fallout from that incident, which, interestingly enough, was a little less than two months before a general election. That and the Petraeus scandal were both deftly and quietly shoved under the rug by a compliant if not sycophantic media who still sings this administration's praises to this day. When I say we're slipping every closer to anarchy, both domestically and overseas, ladies and gentlemen, look no further.

Response by PO1 Jason Taylor made Apr 4 at 2016 1:34 PM

PO1 Jason Taylor — Mon, 04 Apr 2016 13:34:02 -0400

And this woman has the audacity to ask the American people to be there president! She don't care about America only herself!

Response by SP5 Mark Kuzinski made Apr 4 at 2016 1:52 PM

SP5 Mark Kuzinski — Mon, 04 Apr 2016 13:52:23 -0400

Spot on Sir!

Response by SGT Roberto Mendoza-Diaz made Apr 4 at 2016 2:26 PM

SGT Roberto Mendoza-Diaz — Mon, 04 Apr 2016 14:26:44 -0400

Response by Cpl Mark McMiller made Apr 4 at 2016 2:42 PM

Cpl Mark McMiller — Mon, 04 Apr 2016 14:42:18 -0400

"Why didn’t our Commander-in-Chief take a more active role and authorize a rescue attempt? The closet American assets were in Aviano, so why not request British reinforcement? They had even closer assets in Cyprus, such as the RAF and, most likely, their British SAS."

We know why. Obama's based his reelection campaign on his lie that the middle east was a much safer place because he had defeated terrorism. If he authorized a rescue attempt it would be as good as admitting he had been lying, so he gambled with the lives of those on the ground in Benghazi and lost that bet and those people died because of it. That is why in the weeks following the attack, the White House and State Department tried to spin the clearly planned terrorist attack as nothing more than a protest of a anti-Islamic video gone awry. If you were not aware of all this, you're probably watching the wrong TV networks.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 4 at 2016 3:10 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 04 Apr 2016 15:10:34 -0400

Nice right-wing slant you have there.

The TRUTH is that a well-planned terrorist attack occurred with the element of surprise. Period, end of story. Everything since has simply been a Republican Party that knew that A) Hillary would run for POTUS, and B) that without some serious Swift-Boating they couldn't beat her.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 4 at 2016 3:26 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 04 Apr 2016 15:26:45 -0400

If and when the whole story comes out, I am sure many will be surprised.

Response by CPT Pedro Meza made Apr 4 at 2016 4:21 PM

CPT Pedro Meza — Mon, 04 Apr 2016 16:21:52 -0400

Fact check, we can not teleport therefore any rescue attempt would have been futile, second why not include the October 23, 1983 Beirut barracks bombing in your judgment and discourse. From the perspective of judgement men both were pr-eventful.

Response by SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth made Apr 4 at 2016 5:39 PM

SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth — Mon, 04 Apr 2016 17:39:52 -0400

When and if she goes to see Satan, there probably is a special spot for her. In front of a monitor getting watch what happened over and over again.

Response by CPT Joseph K Murdock made Apr 4 at 2016 7:07 PM

CPT Joseph K Murdock — Mon, 04 Apr 2016 19:07:01 -0400

Hell the DoS didn't think the Kurds or the city of Kobani were even important. They were had very few weapons to open safe corridors and to imped ISIS' Northern advance. What should lead us to believe in their (DoS) competence?

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 5 at 2016 9:57 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 05 Apr 2016 09:57:37 -0400

I've thought long and hard about this, and this is what I've come up with:
You may of course disagree, as I have no special knowledge. But I have reached some conclusions based on what we do know.
I think that there was a very sensitive operation going on in the CIA Annex, and that the Station Chief in Tripoli and some of the folks in the early circles of knowledge and decision-making were aware of this and did not want to compromise that mission. That lines up with the comically poor cover story floated by Susan Rice in the ensuing weeks.
The notion that there was no help in range of the area is not credible. The attack from start to finish lasted 13 hours; the actual assault just under 8 hours. There is fighter aircraft in Aviano. SOF forces in North Africa and Germany. An Aircraft Carrier somewhere in the Med at the time, as well as an MEU. There is an entire Airborne Brigade with the assets to move it in Viscenza. One could infer (but we don't know for sure) that since a UAV was overhead early in the assault, that the platform from which it was launched - probably an Amphibious Assault vessel, was nearby. Hell... it would've been tight, but you darn near could have flown tier one assets from CONUS in 8 hours. Help was not sent because there was dithering at the decision-maker level. One could conclude nothing else that really makes sense. My guess is a lot of effort was made to get "better information" in order to make such a decision, while precious minutes ticked away. Where did the friction and/or non-decision occur? The logical choices are at AFRICOM/ EUCOM for a lot of it, and one or more of the top six civilian leaders at the time - POTUS, VP, SecDef, SecState, NSA, CIA Director. Unsurprisingly, no one wants to own that decision.
There were obvious political implications with the 2012 election mere weeks away. This was certainly a factor in how the administration handled things. Cold hard politics is a factor, and that is not unique to the Obama Administration.

I think that it is very instructive to consider why we were in Libya in the first place, and what the outcome of that was. You see, one can Monday morning quarterback this all you want. What is painfully obvious is that the policy that led to the overthrow of Qadaffi and the subsequent handling of the aftermath directly led to the 9/11/12 attack, and further, to Islamic State seizing most of the East Libya region carving out another chunk of territory. That is a failure. There has been nearly 5 years during which something could have been done to rectify and/or mitigate this outcome, and little to nothing has been done. This is pretty telling. My educated guess is that the POTUS wasn't all that convinced that intervening in Libya was the right COA in the first place, but interventionists (notably Hillary Clinton) won the argument. When things went south in Benghazi, the non-interventionists won out - and the next time an opportunity came along for intervention, Syria, they argued and won the day for non-intervention.
Personally, I think that the case for intervention or not is why we have a cabinet, and decision-makers are only as good as the information given to them. But having made the decision to initiate military action, it is incumbent upon military and civilian leaders to execute the policy faithfully AND provide adequate equipment and support to execute and deal with likely/possible contingencies. This sad event illustrates very clearly what happens when that is done on the cheap and on the sly.
It is not the fault of the leader when bad things happen. The enemy gets a vote. It IS the fault of the leader how they react to bad things happening. And they should be judged for their conduct not just during the event, but before and after as well.

Response by SCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 6 at 2016 4:33 PM

SCPO Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 06 Apr 2016 16:33:48 -0400

I could not agree more. Hitlery Clinton needs her last pantsuit made out of striped material. And she needs to wear it for the rest of her F****** pathetic life.

Response by SFC Ralph E Kelley made Apr 7 at 2016 9:12 AM

SFC Ralph E Kelley — Thu, 07 Apr 2016 09:12:03 -0400

I've never been lied to by anyone unless you add the following things:
1. Tell me about something (as fact) that you didn't see or were physically present for.
2. Don't tell me something that you think I should know (without micromanaging me ...)
3. Change the subject rather than answer my valid queries.
4. Don't remember to update (as the situation changes ...)
5. Let myself accept (passively) something that obiviously comes under 1 thru 4 above.

Response by Capt Seid Waddell made Apr 24 at 2016 2:44 AM

Capt Seid Waddell — Sun, 24 Apr 2016 02:44:05 -0400

Don't forget President Obama. Do you recall how involved he was during UBL's take-down? Do you remember the photos of him in the Situation Room making the decisions to go in and monitoring the action as it took place?

Where was he when Benghazi was going down? He is the man with the authority to launch our forces to rescue our people when they were under attack for seven hours.

Our military commanders say they were never given the authority to launch their forces that were ready to go.

And Obama was nowhere to be seen.

"Judicial Watch today released a new Benghazi email from then-Department of Defense Chief of Staff Jeremy Bash to State Department leadership immediately offering ‘forces that could move to Benghazi’ during the terrorist attack on the U.S. Special Mission Compound in Benghazi, Libya on September 11, 2012.

In an email sent to top Department of State officials, at 7:19 p.m. ET, only hours after the attack had begun, Bash says, ‘we have identified the forces that could move to Benghazi. They are spinning up as we speak.’

… based upon testimony given to members of Congress by Gregory Hicks, Deputy Chief of Mission of the U.S. embassy in Tripoli at the time of the Benghazi terrorist attack. According to Hicks’ 2013 testimony, a show of force by the U.S. military during the siege could have prevented much of the carnage. Said Hicks, ‘if we had been able to scramble a fighter or aircraft or two over Benghazi as quickly as possible after the attack commenced, I believe there would not have been a mortar attack on the annex in the morning because I believe the Libyans would have split. They would have been scared to death that we would have gotten a laser on them and killed them.’

‘The Obama administration and Clinton officials hid this compelling Benghazi email for years,’ said Judicial Watch President Tom Fitton. ‘The email makes readily apparent that the military was prepared to launch immediate assistance that could have made a difference, at least at the CIA Annex. The fact that the Obama Administration withheld this email for so long only worsens the scandal of Benghazi’."

http://tinyurl.com/q282m8y

Judicial Watch: New Benghazi Email Shows DOD Offered State Department “Forces that Could Move to...

Judicial Watch today released a new Benghazi email from then-Department of Defense Chief of Staff Jeremy Bash to State Department leadership

Response by MSgt John McGowan made Apr 25 at 2016 7:18 AM

MSgt John McGowan — Mon, 25 Apr 2016 07:18:31 -0400

SGT. Hillary failed her duties along with Obama and nothing done to help these men. There is a big cover-up. As i recall there were alert birds on standby very close every where I went. As I understand it both went to bed and didn't even follow events. For some reason they didn't want to let the Cat out of the bag. The American public was kept in the dark. Her lie to the families just shows how much she cares. I also believe some of the high ranking officers lost their jobs over this. We looked weak and uncaring.

Response by SGT Roberto Mendoza-Diaz made Apr 27 at 2016 3:18 PM

SGT Roberto Mendoza-Diaz — Wed, 27 Apr 2016 15:18:07 -0400

Response by SGT Roberto Mendoza-Diaz made Apr 27 at 2016 3:18 PM

SGT Roberto Mendoza-Diaz — Wed, 27 Apr 2016 15:18:45 -0400

Response by SGT Roberto Mendoza-Diaz made Apr 27 at 2016 4:03 PM

SGT Roberto Mendoza-Diaz — Wed, 27 Apr 2016 16:03:16 -0400

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Response by SGT Roberto Mendoza-Diaz made Apr 27 at 2016 5:24 PM

SGT Roberto Mendoza-Diaz — Wed, 27 Apr 2016 17:24:44 -0400

Well I'm a real Patriot... But anyone voting for someone like Hillary who had no regard for Americans getting killed in Benghazi should be considered an anti-patriot and a traitor.

Response by CPT Pedro Meza made May 9 at 2016 2:47 PM

CPT Pedro Meza — Mon, 09 May 2016 14:47:58 -0400

Why is it that we judge Hillary for her decisions on Bengahszi and not judge Donald Henry Rumsfeld decisions on the Iraq war? It appears that men are quick to judge a woman while at the same time fail to judge a man that did worst.

Response by SFC Terry Fisher made May 9 at 2016 6:39 PM

SFC Terry Fisher — Mon, 09 May 2016 18:39:52 -0400

I don't like Clinton but these 60 are ok or the 4500 in his war for profit.

Response by SPC John Decker made May 10 at 2016 11:23 AM

SPC John Decker — Tue, 10 May 2016 11:23:56 -0400

While reading the book "13 hours", I also believed the CIA guy should have been held culpable. Everyone seems to be playing the same game. "Cover my own ass and to hell with everyone else". The idea of doing something for the greater good, the people of the United States, seems to me to be less popular than it once was.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 21 at 2016 11:22 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 21 Jun 2016 11:22:36 -0400

If the "go" order had been issued as soon as the wall was breached and the plane had been loaded, on the tarmac with the engines running. The Ambassador would have still died and based on the air drops we do into urban terrain we would have lost more soldiers.

I would like to point out that Paul Ryan chaired the committee that gutted the security and hired private contractors to fill the gap.

Response by SGT Roberto Mendoza-Diaz made Jul 5 at 2016 2:18 PM

SGT Roberto Mendoza-Diaz — Tue, 05 Jul 2016 14:18:01 -0400

Response by CPT Jack Durish made Sep 9 at 2016 3:41 PM

CPT Jack Durish — Fri, 09 Sep 2016 15:41:59 -0400

I wish that people would return to their comments and responses on this discussion thread, and reflect on what they posted in light of new revelations. They might learn a lesson or two. Then again, they might not.

Response by SFC George Smith made Sep 9 at 2016 4:48 PM

SFC George Smith — Fri, 09 Sep 2016 16:48:12 -0400

Her 3 AM call came... and Screwed It Up....

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 25 at 2017 9:41 PM

Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 25 Sep 2017 21:41:01 -0400

Well said and so very true!

Response by SGM Joseph Joyner made Sep 25 at 2017 11:16 PM

SGM Joseph Joyner — Mon, 25 Sep 2017 23:16:05 -0400

Because she kept denying request for more security! The potus was in charge of military assets and deployments and all the secstate had to do was ring him up and say need a rescue mission. All agencies had to coordinate with secstate and potus for proper assets to accomplish the rescue.

Response by PO3 Grant Skiles made Sep 26 at 2017 7:39 AM

PO3 Grant Skiles — Tue, 26 Sep 2017 07:39:50 -0400

I personally feel that Clinton and Obama never faced consequences for allowing these individuals to die without getting them help.

Response by PFC Ray Aquila made Oct 19 at 2019 2:33 PM

PFC Ray Aquila — Sat, 19 Oct 2019 14:33:46 -0400

Sec. Hillary Clinton never lied. $8 million of tax payers dollars was spent trying every way shape or form to discredit Sec Clinton. Trey Gowdy and the rest of the Right Wing Nut Cases could not prove their case. Anyone past, present, future servicemen/women that do not believe the Right Wingers lied throughout deserve all they get. Sec. Clinton sat through testimony after testimony. Trey Gowdy and goons proved absolutely nothing. The only accomplishment. Made fools of themselves. As a matter fact. Tom show this was a sham and a waste. Trey Gowdy couldn't get reelected in a safe Red Seat. GET THE FACTS people. Riley prove Sec. Clinton lied. I got proof Sec. Clinton didn't. I and others can show Sec. Clinton wasn't aware nor was told until after the fact about Benghazi. The facts. Or I should say untruth's came from the entertainment network, Foxy Noise.