General public misunderstanding of female veterans

SSgt Jenna Welch — Fri, 22 Aug 2014 16:12:24 -0400

I am curious if any of my fellow vets/SM/Ret members male and female alike have noticed a general misunderstanding or lack of acknowledgement for female veterans? Not that we are looking for a pat on the back or accolades, but I do feel that more often than not, we tend to be forgotten. It's easier to spot a male vet in public (old habits die hard...hair cuts are a sure sign), my husband is approached all the time. When people acknowledge him as a vet, he's also quick to point out that I served as well. Then brings up the, "I would never have guessed." With more female vets and SM than ever before, I kind of find it a bit discouraging that the public still has no understanding of the role of females in the military and combat, and as a vital member of the veteran community. I would like the RP opinion and experience on this. Thank you.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 22 at 2014 4:47 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 22 Aug 2014 16:47:13 -0400

This is a great topic. I never really thought about it until you brought it up. I didn't know that the reactions are as you say, but given the nature of our culture it sounds about how the average American might respond. I can say that of the handful of VFW events I have been to there are only a handful of female members that I have met. I will keep checking this thread to see other responses.

Response by PO1 Christina Winters made Aug 22 at 2014 10:15 PM

PO1 Christina Winters — Fri, 22 Aug 2014 22:15:08 -0400

I have noticed some people get a surprised look on their face when my husband tells them that I am a vet as well as him.

Response by Sgt Jennifer Mohler made Aug 23 at 2014 3:46 PM

Sgt Jennifer Mohler — Sat, 23 Aug 2014 15:46:46 -0400

After I finally get it through peoples' thick heads that YES I am a vet and YES I ACTUALLY did serve in the Marine Corps, and YES I did really do eight years, the most common first question is "did you get raped, or do you know anyone that was". I can't even begin to tell you how offensive this is. I get a lot of disgusting responses. My other favorite is the people who just plain don't believe me.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 23 at 2014 11:41 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 23 Aug 2014 23:41:47 -0400

I think the problem lies with outdated notions of what the military is like. Historically, armed forces were men only. It's been less than a century since that's started to change, and we are still just barely getting to the point where we have females serving in "front line" combat arms positions.

Those in the military, and those that have been paying close attention, are familiar with all these changes happening within our community, but the average civilian probably doesn't. Most civilians associate the infantry as the be-all and end-all of the Army, and until it becomes common knowledge (and fact for that matter) among the civilian population that we have female infantry warfighters it won't surprise me that their views of the military are several decades behind the times and that they severely underestimate the amount of women serving and to what capacity.

Response by Sgt Samantha Jee made Aug 24 at 2014 12:41 PM

Sgt Samantha Jee — Sun, 24 Aug 2014 12:41:52 -0400

I have. In almost every single setting I've been in, even with others of my job type, there is always the assumption of 'you're a spouse of...' I got told on the phone, by a female hospital worker, that I 'don't sound like a veteran or like someone who understands what they to through.' I approach everyone with the assumption that they served their time and deserve all the respect someone from the 82nd airborne would get. (As an example)

Response by MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca made Aug 24 at 2014 1:20 PM

MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca — Sun, 24 Aug 2014 13:20:09 -0400

It is surprising in this day and age for the amount of misunderstanding with women vets. Especially something like CPT Private RallyPoint Member points out with the "women's auxiliary". Haven't heard that term in a LONG time. unfortunately, not that its an excuse, its been a male dominated organization for so long that it needs some updating. IMHO, if we get a few more female vets in as post commanders and at the national level and I think you'll see things do an about face.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 24 at 2014 2:00 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 24 Aug 2014 14:00:12 -0400

SSgt Jenna Welch Outstanding question! Good job for bring it to the attention of the RP community. Makes a lot of us who never really thought about it think about it. I for one was naive in my thinking that there was such a disconnect especially within the veteran/military ranks. It doesn't surprise me with the civilian population they are ignorant of many military concepts. Hopefully things will change in the future and all veterans will be treated with the same respect.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 24 at 2014 8:05 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 24 Aug 2014 20:05:55 -0400

I am not sure how to take this. I am not often looked at a vet. I am one. while not working I grow out the facial hair and don't get a hair cut. I may wear a military themed shirt but I stay by away from the base as I am in the National Guard. I don't have an issue with it. I try not to stand out so much. I wrote a question a while back about civilians and their lack of knowledge when thanking vets.

I guess it could be an issue but most of the time I want to be left alone and not have someone who has no clue give me a hollow thanks for something they feel like they made a difference on the GWOT.

Except in the gym. I wear my Ranger Panties there and you know I am a Vet.

Response by SGT Ben Keen made Aug 25 at 2014 10:01 AM

SGT Ben Keen — Mon, 25 Aug 2014 10:01:00 -0400

I think the misunderstand goes beyond the general public. Even fellow Veterans have problems identifying female Veterans. You are right, things like hair cuts and tattoos are a clear giveaway towards a male's Veteran status but for women, some are often seen as the "supportive wife" rather than the Veteran. I don't think it is really a lack of knowledge that females serve, rather it is a lack of being able to identify you in the group. Look at the numbers, the military is still a "man's world". For better or worse, males out number females in the DoD. This is by no means a knock on the females that served. I served with some that did an amazing job and I was honored to served with them; but the numbers are the number.

I can my advise to you SSgt Jenna Welch and other female Veterans is to not be afraid to speak up and remind people of the great talents and work female Veterans and service members have done for this country. More and more women are being engaged in combat. More and more women are holding positions of great command. More and more females are preforming at or above the level of some of their male counterparts. Be proud of your service and when you interact with the general public, use that as a chance to help educate them and pay it forward for the females serving behind you.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 25 at 2014 6:37 PM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 25 Aug 2014 18:37:57 -0400

I'm with MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca I'm not surprised that the general public doesn't fully understand just how many women that serve and serve in war zones. It's an education process for everyone: the NN's in the military services that still don't get it; the old veterans from previous wars and to the general public. Even today, in my own VFW I have several female veterans that have joined and there are still assinine albatrosses that insist on calling these young ladies and saying: "say honey, before you trot off to the Ladies Auxiilary office will you do me a favor and shake that ....blah, blah, blah.......". It's embarrassing for me - because I have to be a total asshole to a fellow veteran who just literally never learn that it wasn't ever and isn't today acceptable to use that language/commentary, much less to a war veteran. Plus of course, the young warrior just has to come to me and tell me I don't need to defend her......

It's a slow process.

Hopefully by the time my generation has great-great grandchildren my great-great granddaughter will say: "ahh grandpa! you're so cute when you tell those crazy stories!".......

Women veterans - you don't have to do this, but it may help. Keep a copy of your DD-214 in your purse. NOT the real deal - a photo copy. Highlight the part where it says you served in a particular zone after you black out the part that has your SSN. If you have a VA ID card - shove it in the Jacka$$3$ face - especially if it's one of the newer ones.

Realize this: you will never win over some of the antiques - it's simply beyond them to accept. Accept that and move on. You've proven yourself in ways that 99% of the Amerian people cannot fathom. Hold your head high - stand tall.

Response by SSgt Jenna Welch made Aug 25 at 2014 7:12 PM

SSgt Jenna Welch — Mon, 25 Aug 2014 19:12:16 -0400

Thank you everyone for your responses. I love that this has really sparked some discussion. I knew the RP community would have awesome insight into this.

Response by PO1 G. Leslie /Stiltner made Aug 25 at 2014 8:19 PM

PO1 G. Leslie /Stiltner — Mon, 25 Aug 2014 20:19:20 -0400

At the Mall I work in we get lots of soldiers from Ft Polk La!! I can spot a Military person usually and make sure we always give them a discount. One reason that men are picked out of the crowd more often as females is because they are groomed as Military Men, short military hair cuts. A female does not have any distinguishing traits that make her stand out as a Military Female!! I do not think it has anything to do with people not knowing or respecting female vets, a female vet looks just like the girl working at Areopostale or Motherhood, a male vet in most cases still looks like a soldier("You can take the person out of the military but you cant take the military out of the person!"). I toot my horn every chance I get about being a Navy Vet !! Even though there are a lot of females in the military the ratio to men is still small. In our Church of about 200 there are only 2 of us that are Female Vets compared to the males that are about 25 plus.

Response by SSgt Tim Meuret made Aug 26 at 2014 12:44 AM

SSgt Tim Meuret — Tue, 26 Aug 2014 00:44:34 -0400

SSgt Welch your are absolutely correct. What has recently come to my attention is even sadder. Women veterans are not targeted in many of the veteran programs. Everyone is focusing on the males. Women veterans are four times more likely to be homeless than a male veteran.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE!

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 3 at 2014 1:57 AM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 03 Nov 2014 01:57:58 -0500

Thanks for the great question. We males tend to wear those veteran hats and t - shirts more often than the ladies, so that is understandable. But what about some EGA ear rings, or a military ring, or a necklace. I see many veterans while I'm out and about and while I can't thank them all, When I do, I thank whomever they are with for serving as well....because behind every veteran there is a network of family and friends helping them through the thick and thin, especially early in their career. So thank you for your service, from a grateful nation. And I would tend to agree with you, women are more likely to be forgotten. How many women have been issued the BSM, or the Silver Star or MOH for example....probably quite a few Flying Cross. Actually I'd like to know those numbers. US mean definitely get the accolades more often, I'll be more cognizant of those women vets.

Response by SSG Jose Luster made Nov 11 at 2014 2:02 AM

SSG Jose Luster — Tue, 11 Nov 2014 02:02:21 -0500

WELL HERE IN ILLINOIS I CAN SAY THAT I HAVE MET NUMEROUS FEMALE VETS AND THEY ARE ALL PROUD TO LET YOU KNOW THEY SERVED, IN FACT I AM GETTING INFORMATION FROM THEM ALL THE TIME ABOUT LIVING OUT YOUR RETIREMENT DAYS. I THINK IT ALL DEPENDS ON THE INDIVIDUAL IF HE/SHE WANT YOU TO KNOW IF THEY SERVED. YOU GOT TO REMEMBER MUST PEOPLE WON'T HIRE A VET BECAUSE THEY THINK EVERY MILITARY MEMBER HAS PTSD THUS VETERANS (ESPECIALLY FEMALE) REMAIN QUIET ABOUT THEIR SERVICES.

Response by CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 23 at 2015 12:27 PM

CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 23 Jan 2015 12:27:58 -0500

I had a young lady ask me for my "dependent card" in the BX. When I showed her my CAC card, she insisted I had the wrong card so couldn't (wouldn't) ring me up. I simply explained that *I* was the Active member. Manager came over and quickly diffused, but I was pretty surprised at how adamant she was that I was the wifelet.

Response by Sgt Cody Dumont made Nov 14 at 2015 10:31 PM

Sgt Cody Dumont — Sat, 14 Nov 2015 22:31:14 -0500

Thank you for serving, but just a thought, maybe I am over simplifing the issue, but buy hat that says Proud Veteran, Marine, Solider, Airman, Sailor, or Coast Guardsman. I personally love to see women service members showing their service. We need you and are greaful for everyone who serves. Semper FI.

Response by SMSgt Clyde Hunter made Nov 16 at 2015 10:41 AM

SMSgt Clyde Hunter — Mon, 16 Nov 2015 10:41:05 -0500

Wear a veteran's hat or jacket with some sort of identification if you want to be acknowledged. How the heck is anyone to know or assume you are a vet from your appearance?

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 16 at 2015 10:51 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 16 Nov 2015 10:51:32 -0500

SSgt Jenna Welch I think military personnel tend to recognize each other in general. There's more to it than haircuts... I identify them by their body language, have you ever noticed that there is a difference in how we carry ourselves, stand, place our hands, observe our surroundings, where they sit relative to others in the room... I don't think I'm alone in my observations and I've noticed that occasionally if I make eye contact there is a recognition there, they know. Now as far as the general public I think they're less likely to pick up on these cues than service personnel so there probably is a disconnect. In general there is misconception of what females do in the military, my son corrected a teacher who in class said females in the military only did behind the scene jobs such as storing supplies ... (he came home and told me about it)...

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 16 at 2015 11:33 AM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 16 Nov 2015 11:33:19 -0500

SSgt Jenna Welch I am still serving and deal with this both on base and off. When I am in civilian clothes, for those that do not personally know me on base just assume I am the military spouse. It can get a little annoying.

Response by CAPT Tom Bersson made Nov 16 at 2015 3:26 PM

CAPT Tom Bersson — Mon, 16 Nov 2015 15:26:11 -0500

Had not thought about this issue, but I can see the concern. We need to get past this and all veteran's should do there part to bring awareness to this item.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Nov 16 at 2015 8:10 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Mon, 16 Nov 2015 20:10:44 -0500

You need a jacket with patches of Kosovo, Desert Storm, Afghanistan, and Iraq. :)

Response by Cpl Shane Cunningham made Nov 17 at 2015 11:08 AM

Cpl Shane Cunningham — Tue, 17 Nov 2015 11:08:57 -0500

My wife deals with this some. She is also an active duty Marine. Many times its from military wives who scoff when they find out she's one. Once she had a woman laugh at her and said, "Just because your husband is a Marine, doesn't make you one!" I just about had to hold her back, haha.

Response by SSG Audwin Scott made Nov 17 at 2015 11:12 AM

SSG Audwin Scott — Tue, 17 Nov 2015 11:12:42 -0500

One of the reason I think female vets are overlooked, is because they don't look like vets in the eyes of civilians. Most male vets show off with tattoo's, hats of display of what branch they served etc. etc.

Response by MAJ Alvin B. made Nov 17 at 2015 11:33 PM

MAJ Alvin B. — Tue, 17 Nov 2015 23:33:07 -0500

Yes I have see a difference. In my experience it is due to the following (in no special order):
the general population is not aware of the number of,women serving,
there is aback,of understanding as to why a women would serve,
there are lingering negative stereotypes about women in uniform from earlier eras,
fewer civilians actually interact with anyone in the military
Itmismhard to pick out a female veteran in a crowd, as they typically look "normal" vice a male veteran with a high and tight or shaved head.

Response by MSgt Marvin Kinderknecht made Nov 18 at 2015 5:18 PM

MSgt Marvin Kinderknecht — Wed, 18 Nov 2015 17:18:03 -0500

I think the recruiting commands should get into the picture. More women on posters. More career offerings. Etc. We don't need men all the time. A guy and girl together with a "together we make a great team". Blast it out there. Poor Sally Rand never got much press until she was killed.

Response by SFC Trevor Wilkinson made Nov 19 at 2015 8:37 PM

SFC Trevor Wilkinson — Thu, 19 Nov 2015 20:37:31 -0500

"One family, one fight", Enough said!!
If the new generation begs to dffer, I will say "Whatever"

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made Nov 19 at 2015 10:24 PM

SSG (ret) William Martin — Thu, 19 Nov 2015 22:24:53 -0500

SSgt Jenna Welch, If you are saying that female SMs and Veterans do not get the respect deserve from the general public or at least be acknowledged they are SMs or a vet then I agree with you. Sometimes the ignorance from people is amazing, but how do we change their perception?

Response by CH (LTC) Robert Leroe made Nov 21 at 2015 11:03 AM

CH (LTC) Robert Leroe — Sat, 21 Nov 2015 11:03:44 -0500

In my town we recently dedicated a monument for female veterans and we generally make a big fuss over them, which is fine. I, for one, have never had trouble with our co-ed military. My last supervisor was female, and it was a non-issue. Good for them.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Nov 21 at 2015 11:28 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Sat, 21 Nov 2015 23:28:20 -0500

I wonder if this division of male and female veterans is due to the way we grew up. Boys got toy guns and GI Joes, and the girls received domestic toys. This is just one example of our acculturation.

Response by PFC Celeste Quesada made Jun 26 at 2019 11:52 AM

PFC Celeste Quesada — Wed, 26 Jun 2019 11:52:10 -0400

No joke, when I first got to my unit I went to the unit Christmas party and one of the guys gave me a ride, our XO asked if I was the dude's wife. It was the worst.