Have the "Armed Forces" leaders become less professional based when it comes to training their subordinates?

2014-09-18T14:59:31-04:00

In the last 14 years I have been in I have seen many things change when it comes to supporting our people, building them up and encouraging them to do the right thing. I remember being sat down and given hands on training, I was built up, people took time to help me develop my skills. Once when I was an E3 I asked a Master Chief why he spent so much time on training me and a few others in our rates. His response was " you are all the future of the (my) Navy, the knowledge I share with you is my legacy, just because I am a Master Chief and am soon to retire does not mean I have to take all I have learned in my 33 years with me. Your success, what you teach others is my (navy) service legacy".
When I first joined I saw many Senior E6's, Chief and Officers go to bat for their subordinates, lately it seems that no one steps up and it's easy to point fingers at everyone else. Telling a subordinate that their leadership skills "suck" they need to do more E-learning leadership courses is not how to develop a good leader. I'm sorry but true leadership isn't obtained by watching an hour video than taking a 50 question quiz. It's by observing it in person, having someone to guide you along the way. If a young service member has bad leadership, that only cares about their own advancement and progress, this service members examples of leadership are the failures, not the young service member. He/she doesn't know any better because it's what they have seen and in a way been taught. What do you think has been a major influence on these changes?

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 18 at 2014 3:21 PM

2014-09-18T15:21:06-04:00

PO1 Shannon Drosdak, you make an excellent point. I've seen similar changes in the Army at times, and I attribute it to a generational shift. The "me generation" is focused on "me." I'll bet that some of the changes you note are attributable to that. Plus, as these younger leaders mature, their attitudes may very well change for the better.

Response by SFC Boots Attaway made Sep 18 at 2014 3:52 PM

2014-09-18T15:52:41-04:00

PO1 Shannon Drosdak You are correct in saying that todays leaders are not training the people under them. E-learning is just one tool that should be used, but hands on learning and one on one training can and NEVER be replaced. They are the best learning tools a leader has. If a senior can not take their time to teach a subordinate then they are NOT a leader and should not be in charge of anyone. The other problems are politics and the "Good ole boy" system of which neither has a place in the military.

Response by MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca made Sep 18 at 2014 5:07 PM

2014-09-18T17:07:08-04:00

There is nothing that can replace SNCO training to subordinates or Os It can't be replaced by "e" or "i" anything.

My wife took my daughter to the doctor a few weeks ago about a condition and as my wife was asking questions, the doctor had the audacity to dismiss her with, "If you want to find more about this condition, you can google it" We must definitely be dinosaurs in the age of "WTF".

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 18 at 2014 5:16 PM

2014-09-18T17:16:29-04:00

PO1 Shannon Drosdak It takes great personal discipline and strength of character to train your subordinates to take over your job - especially when you're told that you're being forced out of the service. It's hard to accept, but all of us, no matter where we are in our military careers, will eventually be forced out. Call the mechanism whatever you like, we are only in the service a short time.

The decision made by the Master Chief in your thread is a perfect example of that discipline and strength of character. At some point in our career we make such a decision. We choose to either be the good sailor to the very last and have the Navy come down to the engineroom and haul us to the retirement ceremony or we choose to be the ROAD scholar and float ashore. Each of us must make that decision and live with it.

The greatest compliment I ever received and one I treasure the most was from a Chief that I knew briefly as a FA prior to my retirement. I was at a working lunch with some fellow contractors on a Joint Base. At the end of the meal I made my way to the head and ran into this young Chief (why do they all look so young these days?). As we stepped out of the head he looked at me and asked: "are you George Medley? were you on the USS Conolly in 1996?" I replied to the affirmative. He stopped, looked at me and extended his hand. I was perplexed, having no idea what this was all about. He continued: "I just wanted to shake the hand of the man whose CSMP (Consolidated Ship's Maintenance Plan) for his entire department (Engineering) became known as the best written, organized and documented CSMP in the Atlantic Fleet for 3 years running. It took me a moment...I had completely forgotten my time and efforts underweigh working on job request after job request.

Apparently, even after we depart we leave a mark. What kind of mark and how it's viewed by those we trained is completely up to us.

Take care of my (now yours) Navy PO1.......

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 21 at 2014 3:08 PM

2014-09-21T15:08:13-04:00

The cover your own ass culture has grown and ripened under political pressure and involvement in OUR way of life. It has broken the back of our services and weakened our force. The damage will be evident when it's too late to undo. This is a sad truth... there is no longer such a thing as developing your subordinates; only punishing and leaving them when they need u s the most. We enlist men and women that are years away from being truly mature and expect them to never make mistakes. True leadership is not knowing how to handle the "perfect" people. It's getting the ones that need guidance and correction on board as well. TAKE ACTION!

Response by SCPO Charles Thomas "Tom" Canterbury made Sep 22 at 2014 6:30 AM

2014-09-22T06:30:17-04:00

If E-Learning and other computer-based training (CBT) materials made great leaders - this military would walk on water. It takes honing and by honing it means putting your subordinates in the driver's seat. This may be more painful as delegation doesn't clear your responsibility and accountability for the task - but it builds winners.

The number one problem I find in the military and after nearly 21 years of service is OWNERSHIP. My latest push among my junior leadership is to "OWN IT." I want them to brief myself and the Commanding Officer on their programs. This not only builds confidence, it allows me to inspect it. Not inspected - not expected. Can't get that out of an E-Learning Course or NKO. But it will build them up - give them knowledge, and help them to OWN IT.

I do have a problem though that I find an increased number of PO1s and other leaders who are afraid to make a decision. I don't know why. I hope that this doesn't mean they feel that they haven't been empowered - if that is the case they should discuss this with their Chiefs or their CMC. The bottom line is indecision IS a decision. Don't be the one who cannot make up their mind. Know your governing instructions on things you're in charge of. And, if you're in charge of something or leading people - put them in charge of things to build them up because leadership skills don't develop overnight and that is how you learn. The more that your junior personnel can learn to handle, the better leaders they are and THEY ARE THE NAVY OF TOMORROW! I plan on being retired in a few years and at best have 9 years left but am realistic and know that probably won't come to fruition. When I hang up the uniform after my ceremony I want to be able to say that I've made my little piece of the Navy better than when I found it - and when those Sailors I leave behind are taking ownership of that piece - I believe that will be proof that I did.

Response by MSgt Mike Brown; MBTI-CP; MA, Ph.D. made Jun 12 at 2015 5:57 PM

2015-06-12T17:57:52-04:00

There are some things technology cannot replace...

Response by SCPO William Akin made Nov 25 at 2018 2:29 PM

2018-11-25T14:29:53-05:00

Much too far removed from the present day Navy to comment..
Entertaining/interesting reading for an Old Deck-ape..

Response by SPC John Decker made Nov 25 at 2018 8:30 PM

2018-11-25T20:30:36-05:00

I've been out for quite a while now. I have spoken to/with several people who went in after I got out. I think, the problem you're describing, started when they started issuing "time-out" cards. Basic training/Boot Camp (whatever your service calls the first part of training). used to be about breaking you down then rebuilding you. Certain NCOs would see different things in their subordinates and help those they saw promise in. When the military turned into a whiny camp, the NCOs stopped looking for promise and started to focus on their own careers. Because of that, the next generation had no incentive to help build the generation that came after it.