How do you balance Reserve duty with Civilian Employment?

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 29 Feb 2016 20:48:54 -0500

I have a friend who's a ARNG 1LT and just got a new civilian job. His first week on the job, and his unit is having a MUTA-5 where he has to report early. He's got a slot coming up for his Captains Career Course, and pretty much guaranteed to pin CPT when he comes out of it....in two weeks. His employer wants him to reschedule, but broaching the subject with his CoC, his CO flipped his shit.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 29 at 2016 8:53 PM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 29 Feb 2016 20:53:27 -0500

This is exactly the kind of situation that leaves me wanting to say nasty things to those who say "suck it up". As a Reserve component Soldier (ARNG/USAR) you should not have to risk your civilian job in order to serve. It isn't right. Note I didn't say fair, I said right.

Response by Capt Brandon Charters made Feb 29 at 2016 8:57 PM

Capt Brandon Charters — Mon, 29 Feb 2016 20:57:27 -0500

I've heard of many issues like this coming up for Guard and Reserve members in the civilian workforce. I attended my first ESGR signing at Farmers Insurance HQ a few months back. I remember how many of their service members and veterans spoke about being deployed and sent to training with the full backing of their company's leadership. I want to loop in a few folks who might be able to tell that story from a firsthand perspective.

Response by LTC Stephen C. made Feb 29 at 2016 9:32 PM

LTC Stephen C. — Mon, 29 Feb 2016 21:32:07 -0500

Back in the eighties, many civilian employers weren't quite as military friendly as now, CW3 Private RallyPoint Member. I can remember at least twice where I took vacation to perform AT, so I wouldn't take "too much time away from work".

Response by SGT Kristin Wiley made Feb 29 at 2016 10:26 PM

SGT Kristin Wiley — Mon, 29 Feb 2016 22:26:46 -0500

For similar reasons, I am hesitant to sign an ARNG contract. I need to take summer classes to make the medical school application deadline, if they aren't willing to work that around their annual training schedule it would cause a 1-year delay in my application that isn't worth it. The RCC are the worst too. As far as I can tell, the new promotion regs say I need to be slotted as an E-6, but they were trying to put me in an E-4 position. Maybe it's time we look at the way ARNG/USAR do training, so it's more flexible when these situations arise.

Response by LTC Yinon Weiss made Mar 1 at 2016 1:52 AM

LTC Yinon Weiss — Tue, 01 Mar 2016 01:52:44 -0500

You've got to choose which career you want to prioritize... your civilian career or military career. You can't optimize for two things at once. It doesn't mean you can't serve in both at once, but one will sacrifice for the other.

Response by CAPT John McCandless made Mar 1 at 2016 4:54 AM

CAPT John McCandless — Tue, 01 Mar 2016 04:54:05 -0500

I was always fortunate enough to work for employers who were great supporters of the Guard and Reserve. They had formal policies that clearly spelled out their support. My advice, when you're interviewing for a new job, ask your potential employer if they have a policy in support of citizen soldiers. If they don't, perhaps you should keep looking, or ask them to establish a policy.

Response by LTC Michael Hrycak made Mar 1 at 2016 6:25 AM

LTC Michael Hrycak — Tue, 01 Mar 2016 06:25:53 -0500

It is a never ending struggle. I worked for a civilian employer at first, luckily involved in many government contracts, who had established supporting policies. Later, I started working for myself, and many sacrifices followed - on both sides. In the big picture I feel vindicated because I have great accomplishments on both sides. The hardest obstacle was three mobilizations back to back for OIF and OEF. But you have to try and create a path for yourself because you have to answer to yourself in the end.

Response by SFC Daniel Faires made Mar 1 at 2016 7:46 AM

SFC Daniel Faires — Tue, 01 Mar 2016 07:46:29 -0500

In my opinion he should have interviewed his prospective employer about their support of the national guard . Did he disclose he was slotted for school and also give a yearly schedule to the employer when they hired him?

So many unanswered questions

Response by CW4 Tim Claus made Mar 1 at 2016 8:17 AM

CW4 Tim Claus — Tue, 01 Mar 2016 08:17:31 -0500

Problem in part is that after 15 years of repeated deployments, schools, etc, the toll on soldiers, families and employers is starting to get to everyone. In my case, I was a reservist for 33 years of my 39 year career. My employer was very supportive as my military career and civil service career are in the same field, but at the same time, when I was gone, either short term or deployed, someone else had to pick up the slack. Due to the nature of our work, we cannot find someone off the street as a temp fill, so the office works short-handed, which increases the load on the other guys on the team. As the boss now, I have 2 individuals on active duty until the end of the fiscal year. The remaining members of the work force have to handle the extra TDY and workload until the 2 return. On is on his 3rd deployment with us, the other his 1st. I had 3 extended periods of active duty for USARC between 2004 and 2009. This is a lot of time lost for an organization with only 25 folks. It is one thing to say employers should always give reservists time off for schools, deployments, etc, but it does place a burden on the employer and co-workers. It is perfectly natural for an employer to question an employee's dedication to the organization after multiple deployments, schools and other activities keep taking an employee away.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 1 at 2016 9:15 AM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 01 Mar 2016 09:15:09 -0500

Its a hard balance I had worked for two companies that actually benefited from the military (healthcare related) and I still was given grief about missions and such, the hierarchy would actually publicly praise the military . but the big thing is to respect the wishes of your unit and the REAL BIG thing is know all of your rights of ESGR. These are not guidelines , but LAWS that are part of the the bylaws and regs of the US DPARTMENT OF LABOR, so if a company gives you grief Sir, they are breaking and straining Federal LAW . So I would be a civil person but firmly stand your ground ensure that your friend's rights are protected , hope this helps.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 1 at 2016 9:31 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 01 Mar 2016 09:31:27 -0500

This should have been discussed with his new employer during the hiring process. The LT's upcoming military requirements were not a surprise to him, so they shouldn't have been a surprise to his employer. The drill calendar would have been published months ago, as would scheduling for that school. I can see allowances being made for attendance at BA (depending on the training and what explanation the Soldier provided), but the PME course is another story. Those orders, issued by HRC, are not a suggestion for the Soldier to go "if it is convenient"; they constitute a legal order with a litany of consequences in the event they are not followed, for both the Soldier and the employer. His failure to disclose his upcoming training requirements fall squarely on the Soldier.
As for the unit's reaction, I'd be PO'd too if some Soldier showed up two weeks before a long-scheduled PME course with this explanation. He was just fine going to school when he needed the money. If there were already orders issued (there should be), how adverse my reaction would be would be mitigated only by whether or not I could substitute another officer into the course.
The lack of communication and inability to even explore options are the most telling things about the scenario laid out by the OP.
This is an officer, a leader of Soldiers.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 1 at 2016 9:59 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 01 Mar 2016 09:59:27 -0500

I have NEVER had an issue with a civilian employer about my Reserve duties. I always let them know up front what the deal is. I know the law and I am covered, I make sure they know that. I've gone as far as give them a copy of the law. When duty pops up, I go. I don't argue, I don't put up with threats.

Response by SGM Mikel Dawson made Mar 1 at 2016 11:38 AM

SGM Mikel Dawson — Tue, 01 Mar 2016 11:38:29 -0500

Just be lucky most of you Reserve soldiers live CONUS and are protected by law. Living overseas and being Reserve, we have no protection. Reserve duty is tough to balance with a civilian career. I only had one employer who gave me problems. When I started my own business I learned how loyal customers are. Returning from my first deployment I lost my vehicle, and almost the house. It took about 3yrs to get back up to par - just in time to deploy again. I almost got back up top again and deployed again. After three years I finally pulled out of the hole. If it hadn't been for some loyal customers I'd been so far behind. These are the things Active Duty don't have to deal with. But there are things AD have to deal with we didn't. No matter which way you go, a sacrifice is going to be paid for our service.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 1 at 2016 12:14 PM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 01 Mar 2016 12:14:42 -0500

This is an excellent (and timeless) question. I recently started a new job and a reserve unit. While I want to be of value to the reserves, I reached out to my reserve CO and asked for a delay in reporting to give me time to settle into my new (civilian) job.

I disagree about brining it up on a job interview. If it's on your resume, it's fair game for the employer to ask, but talking to other reserve mentors, it's best to tell employers that you are focusing on your civilian career. If your unit is being unreasonable, is it possible to switch? If most of your paycheck comes from your civilian employer, that's what I would focus on.

Response by MSgt Carl Longenecker made Mar 1 at 2016 12:40 PM

MSgt Carl Longenecker — Tue, 01 Mar 2016 12:40:10 -0500

I read a lot of valid posts, both from an employer’s perspective and service member’s perspective. No military or civilian employment situation is perfect. When conflicts arise, only you can decide for yourself what is more important, your civilian job or your military career. Ideally you should be able to do both, but that is not always possible. I am 59, but only a few months passed the 20 year mark because I made those decisions for myself. There was a time when college took priority, so I got out for a while. There was a period when building my civilian career took priority, so I took another break. Today at 59 my military career takes priority, so I am eagerly preparing for my fourth and final deployment before mandatory retirement from the ANG, regardless of the impact on my civilian job. That was my choice. I chose to serve knowing that someday my decision could impact my civilian employment and income, but I still chose to do so. No one forced any of you to enlist. No one forced you to accept one job over another. And no one forced any of you to stay in. Explore your options, make the best decision for your situation, then live with it.

Response by CW4 John Karl T. made Mar 1 at 2016 3:00 PM

CW4 John Karl T. — Tue, 01 Mar 2016 15:00:28 -0500

If the LT was up front with his new employer, the employer is fully aware of his military obligation AND the law concerning his service. It may be inconvenient for the employer, but in the long run the employer will benefit from his employees education, experience, training, work ethic and loyalty.

Response by SPC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 1 at 2016 4:17 PM

SPC(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 01 Mar 2016 16:17:01 -0500

I was told by a CW4 to not risk your civilian job for Duty

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 2 at 2016 6:44 AM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 02 Mar 2016 06:44:09 -0500

Unfortunately this is a situation a bunch of us find ourselves in at one time or another. He has to explain his situation to his CO and the CO needs to be the one to suck it up this time. This is NOT a deployment situation it is a school and an extended drill weekend.

I find that ANG and AFR units tend to be much better at working around my civilian career than I did when I was NG my first enlistment. Having A drill and B drill during a month and allowing people to schedule AT days as available helps. That being said, you will probably find a time where your military career damages your civilian career.

I have been deployed multiple times and each time my civilian employer has made up the difference between my military pay and civilian pay (actually quite substantial because I am an engineer in my real life) but there have been occasions where I was assigned to a certain facility where it seemed like a deployment actually hurt my standing with the local management because I could not finish all my assignments that year because of my deployment. I eventually transferred to another facility with the same company.

I agree with another poster who stated that you have to try and work with the civilian employer and, get your unit to work with them too because, the civilian job is the one that pays the bills.

Response by SPC Jesse Barber made Mar 2 at 2016 9:32 AM

SPC Jesse Barber — Wed, 02 Mar 2016 09:32:56 -0500

I had a similar situation when I was in the ARNG. The way it was resolved was through the Training NCO. He talked to the employer about the MUTA-5 and it was resolved. As far as the course, the CO is being a jerk. If it does not interfere with your friends military career, to better relations with the employer, talk to training NCO about rescheduling course.

Response by MSG Mark Million made Mar 2 at 2016 9:56 AM

MSG Mark Million — Wed, 02 Mar 2016 09:56:51 -0500

While I understand that not all jobs are willing to be inconvenienced in order ot allow reserve personnel to serve, I feel it's important to ensure any job I take will support me with my military duties. With our primary re ourse being ESGR, we all know that an uncooperative employer will find unrelated "issues"to make work difficult for teserve employees if they feel we are to great a burden. Our best defense is choosing good employers whenever possible, and keeping employers informed. Involve ESGR early whenever possible as they will try to mitigate issues on your behakf without making the situation worse.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 3 at 2016 11:28 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 03 Mar 2016 23:28:23 -0500

No matter what, if you have orders and inform the employer in writing of your duty then inform your employer in writing that you will be returning to work (within the limits prescribed by federal law) they cannot do anything to you. The employer is required to maintain the Soldiers position or put them in a "similar" position when they come off orders. So much more... so little space. Just speak with your employer and know the law.