How do you reconcile taking a life in defense if you are a Christian?

2014-09-25T09:57:29-04:00

During my service I wasn't deployed to combat areas due to the timing of my enlistment. After I EAS'd, I accepted Jesus Christ as Lord. With all the potential threats to our Country now, I've had to reconcile the thought of taking a life in self-defence. What are yall's thoughts on the matter?

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 25 at 2014 11:21 AM

2014-09-25T11:21:16-04:00

Tough question. I've heard both sides from priests, pastors, etc. On one side there are those who say you are doing God's work defending your country. On the other side there are those who say if you kill, even in defense of your family, you are doomed to hell. As long as you go in with your eyes open and aware I say you have to make your own peace with whatever God you opt to follow.

Response by MSG Wade Huffman made Sep 25 at 2014 11:30 AM

2014-09-25T11:30:37-04:00

Very good question. This is something I think that quite a few of us have struggled with throughout our time in and out of service. I don't have an answer for you but perhaps CH (CPT) Heather Davis could provide some wisdom for us?

Response by Cpl Brett Wagner made Sep 25 at 2014 1:23 PM

2014-09-25T13:23:12-04:00

Cpl Aaron Nelson

Luke 22:36 "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one."

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 25 at 2014 1:39 PM

2014-09-25T13:39:36-04:00

I don't. If you believe and serve, you need to make an informed choice. I asnwered a calling, a profession, and I know I belong here. Call it fate, predetermination...whatever. If the commandment to not kill is a hard and fast thing...then you're doomed. Accept it. If it isn't, and there is small print that didn't make the tablets, then no one knows about them. Seeing as how Moses came down from the mountain and ordered the majority of the people slaughtered (take a look at the order he gives when he returns and finds his people worshiping false idols and cavorting around like heathens)...he pretty much immediately breaks some serious rules. But...we don't know. We do what is ours to do, for a noble purpose, and we concern ourselves with it and only that, and we trust that it is for the good. The Lord will sort it out.

Response by SPC Randy Torgerson made Sep 25 at 2014 2:23 PM

2014-09-25T14:23:36-04:00

If I'm not violating your right to life, but your clearly about to violate my right to life (or that of another), you have forfeited your right to your own life.

I reconcile knowing that I'm not the cause of taking that life, that idiot caused his own life to be taken. Is it sad? Of course. Is it a tragedy? Of course. But its not my fault. In fact, at that moment I believe god has decided that the idiot is malfunctioning and needs meet with god. I will refuse to let that burden me for the rest of my life, god willing.

Response by SGT Richard H. made Sep 25 at 2014 3:05 PM

2014-09-25T15:05:31-04:00

Out of the eight most commonly accepted versions of the Bible, only two of them say "Shall not kill" as a commandment. The other six say "Shall not murder". BIG difference.

Response by LTC Paul Labrador made Sep 25 at 2014 3:29 PM

2014-09-25T15:29:57-04:00

I think a lot of it is determined how you feel about the killing, the intent and how you go about doing it. My favorite explanation of this comes from the movie "Big Red One" where Lee Marvin schools Mark Hamill about the difference: "We don't murder the enemy, we kill them." The difference is that we don't revel in the act. We don't enjoy the act. If duty requires that we have to do, so be it, but we will avoid it if we can and don't do it unless necessary.

BTW, I am no theologian, but I have heard discussion that argues that the translation of the "Thou Shalt Not Kill" is wrong. Some scholars state the more accruate translation is "Thous shalt not commit murder". There was really no prohibition against killing in general in the ancient Hebrew world. But they did distinguish killing in the course of battle from "murdering".

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Sep 25 at 2014 4:57 PM

2014-09-25T16:57:54-04:00

You are definitely not alone Cpl Aaron Nelson. Guilt can consume us. We live in a world where horrible people do horrible things. Remember that some of God's revered Kings from the Old Testament were masters in the art of warfare; swinging swords while quoting scriptures from the Bible and doing God's work. God also commands us "Thou Shall Not Kill." What a conundrum. What was in your heart? Were you using war as an excuse to kill people "legally" or were you taking a life to prevent someone that DID feel that way? There are people out there who kill because they "wanted to know what it was like." Which category do you place yourself in? God knows what is in your heart. God also forgives our sins if we truly repent. In divorce courts they hear time and again "They weren't the same person I married" Well, who is the same person at 60, that they were at 20? We change, we fail, and we grow. Guilt is Satan's way of keeping us lost in our past. God is love and has no desire to see his children suffer. If God has forgiven you for your past, why are you consumed with guilt? Pray my brother; not for forgiveness, (you already have that) but for guidance.

Response by Cpl Chris Rice made Sep 26 at 2014 12:34 PM

2014-09-26T12:34:45-04:00

Let me start by saying that I do not have to reconcile this matter yet in my life, and I pray I never do. I would also say that fact that the matter weighs heavy on your heart is good thing with regards to the teachings of Jesus Christ. I too am a Christian, although I am not a follower the fundamentalist movement.

It does not seem possible to reconcile the matter through the Red Letters, while I know people will bring up Luke 22:36 (Most likely without the surrounding verses; that’s not really what he is talking about), it really is not something that Christ provided justification for, and most of his teachings were why we would grow a society where you have to defend yourself. Look at the Sermon on the Mount when he addresses the thought not the action, of murder.

I have had to have this discussion many times, and I do not feel that there is a real great answer. I feel that if you asked Christ, you might get the asked why you do not trust him to care for your family and yourself if you or they are slain, but I also would not be surprised if it had more to do with the content of your heart, as opposed to the action itself. I have many friends who are far more NRA friendly than I am (I like guns, and own some, but the NRA is a bit much), and it is almost as though they are wishing for an opportunity to shoot a burglar. I think Christ will ask how was the burglar going to hurt you? I also think he will not accept that you have a right to defend your property, but I expect he will have compassion for the man who only took life to defend life.

Long way around to I don’t know for sure, I hope that your heart and mind have found peace on the subject, and hope that I do not sound that I am judging. This is a difficult subject and feel people of faith can disagree.

Response by PO2 Rocky Kleeger made Sep 26 at 2014 1:52 PM

2014-09-26T13:52:07-04:00

Your job, as a Marine, was not to meet your god, but to make the enemy meet his. That being said...

Now that you've been "saved", doesn't that mean that your past sins are forgiven and therefore null and void? You need to study your faith, if not your religion, a little more before casting aspersion upon yourself or others, either currently serving or having served in the past

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 27 at 2014 10:21 AM

2014-09-27T10:21:22-04:00

I'm a strong Christian with quite a few confirmed kills. God knows my intentions with each one of of them and doesn't look down on me for any of them. I did what my country asked me to.
Regardless, they would've killed me first if I hadn't killed them first.

Response by SPC Darin Taylor made Sep 27 at 2014 11:16 AM

2014-09-27T11:16:00-04:00

I'm a born again believer in Jesus Christ and I believe that according to the Bible there are times that justify taking the life of another. (Ecclesiastes 3:3) "A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;" (Ecclesiastes 3:8) " A time of love, and a time of hate; a time of war, and a time of peace."

Response by CH (LTC) Jim Howard made Nov 15 at 2014 9:19 AM

2014-11-15T09:19:08-05:00

Christianity has always struggled with how to justify killing in times of war. The "Just War" theory comes from the time of Augustine. What I do know is that when the world fails to confront evil wherever it is, everyone pays a terrible price. Confronting that evil is hard because it sometimes does involve killing. Most veterans who have been up front and personal in war really don't like talking about it, but just imagine what it would be like if Christians did not fight. I take nothing away from those who seriously believe that as a Christian there can be no justification for war, I just think they are wrong.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 15 at 2014 1:56 PM

2014-11-15T13:56:22-05:00

The most common misconception is that the Bible says "thou shall not kill", when it's most accurate translation is "thou shall not murder." A huge difference. As a military force, we kill the enemy if we must, but hope we don't have to.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 15 at 2014 2:28 PM

2014-11-15T14:28:41-05:00

The commandment is to not murder. God himself commanded Joshua to kill an entire city of people.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 23 at 2014 2:24 PM

2014-12-23T14:24:44-05:00

Self preservation, however primitive it may sound, is probably the most basic human instinct we possess. I don't have an issue preserving my life at the expense of sacrificing one who is attempting to take my own.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 23 at 2014 2:46 PM

2014-12-23T14:46:07-05:00

All I know is God helped Isreal defeat many armies, including bringing down the walls of Jericho. God also flooded the earth, killing almost everyone. We are not to commit murder, but what happens at war seems to be fair game.

Response by GySgt William Hardy made Dec 24 at 2014 5:25 PM

2014-12-24T17:25:59-05:00

Read your Bible carefully. As Alvin York discovered, you can accept being a Christian and still do your duty as a military person. It was God Himself that ordered the many battles written about in the Bible as well as numerous passages in the New Testament. I do not know which Christian faith you are following, so I will let you discuss that with your minister, but I am confident you will be able to reconcile the issue without much of a problem.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 24 at 2014 5:39 PM

2014-12-24T17:39:37-05:00

Here's what the monks taught me:

For every question judging the morality of an action, there are two questions to answer; is the act good or evil and is the act right or wrong. The no-brainers here are the good-right acts and the evil-wrong acts. It is also possible for an act to be good and wrong or to be evil and right.

In the case of your question, killing is evil. Always. But sometimes it is the right thing to do. in these cases, a null hypothesis may also be helpful. For example, if refraining from killing would result in your own death or that of someone else, that might make you culpable in the evil by having failed to act, even if the act was evil.

What we have is a formalized way of analyzing justification. How you apply it depends on your personal ethics--how well you adhere to your morality.

Response by Cpl Cary Cartter made Dec 31 at 2014 12:13 PM

2014-12-31T12:13:18-05:00

God wants us to live in Him, not in fear. Self-defense is not a sin, but allowing others to die when you can prevent it is morally wrong.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 12 at 2015 2:56 AM

2015-01-12T02:56:13-05:00

Pretty much chucked the whole religion thing after my first tour. Killing is wrong and both the mind and the spirit rebel at both the thought and the act. The closer to the act the more severe the damage.

Sometimes we have to do horrible things but to use the loving teachings of Jesus to justify it kinda makes me a little sick. So we do it and hope for if not forgiveness then at least understanding.

My soul is stained but souls are like good motorcycle jackets, if it is pristine then you aren't using it for the intended purpose.

Probably not the most popular opinion.

Response by MGySgt Harold Nikkel made Jan 12 at 2015 8:42 PM

2015-01-12T20:42:53-05:00

Stay true to yourself and your God, talk with him daily, he understands everything and why it happens, if it's fighting against evil in a war he will understand. You good with God on your side!!

Response by SPC David S. made Feb 23 at 2015 9:36 PM

2015-02-23T21:36:29-05:00

Well if you believe in the forgiveness of sins and ask to be forgiven I think in the end your slate is wiped clean.

Response by SFC Craig Tighe made Feb 23 at 2015 10:15 PM

2015-02-23T22:15:32-05:00

Not a matter of Christianity or not you fight for your people your culture your protection. Many stories in the bible where chosen people were warriors, were.murderous kings it is not right to kill others but when lives are at stake a decision must be made between right and wrong for the greater good. God is our judge. He is a forgiving God. Pray for his guidance and forgiveness. Praise him all he has done for us

Response by SPC James Mcneil made Feb 25 at 2015 8:49 AM

2015-02-25T08:49:33-05:00

In the gospel of Luke, Jesus told his disciples to go and buy a sword. JMHO of course, but that seems as though it would clearly be for self defense. And sometimes in self defense, you have to make sure your aggressor will not come back to try again.

Luke 22:36 "He said to them, “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one."

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made Feb 25 at 2015 8:52 AM

2015-02-25T08:52:18-05:00

Many people have many different interpretation of the bible one of which is the issue of "killing" and "murder". Killing is for self defense for ones self, private property that protects one's lively hood and protecting others who are weak. Murder has to do with intent or malice in one's heart.

Response by SGT William Howell made Feb 25 at 2015 8:58 AM

2015-02-25T08:58:32-05:00

I never killed a man that did not need killing. All of them were trying to kill me. Hard to worship if you are dead.

1 John 3:16
This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers and sisters.

I never fought for a flag. Fought for the person next to me.

Response by Cpl Nikki Reynaga made Feb 25 at 2015 2:56 PM

2015-02-25T14:56:48-05:00

You have as much the right to live as anyone else. If another violates that right they forfeit theirs. What good does it do to allow yourself to be slain without fight; depriving those who care for you and those who may benefit from the good you do?

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 25 at 2015 5:29 PM

2015-02-25T17:29:59-05:00

I agree w/ SGT Richard H., the Commandment of Shall Not Murder applies here. There IS evil in this world Cpl Aaron Nelson, and God would want you to fight it. It is part of free will. Man can choose to be part of the evil. Or he can choose to fight it!

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 25 at 2015 5:41 PM

2015-02-25T17:41:45-05:00

Cpl Aaron Nelson - We are given free will and determination. You have to make the decision that you feel is right at that time by trusting your instincts. None of us will make it into Heaven without having sinned, but it is the overall accepting of Jesus Christ as your Savior and God as the Father that will make that determination.

I personally feel that I need to protect my Family and those that I love most, and if that means the prospect of taking a life to protect them, so be it. My philosophy is that sometimes God takes action through people, sometimes he does it himself. Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed because of their unwillingness to change their ways. If my life or those that I care about are threatened, at that moment I will act as I see fit until the day that I stand before Him and face judgment.

I don't doubt that the list of my sins will be long, but I want to be able to say I've done the best I can to ensure that those around me can get into Heaven...and if he's got a seat open for me, then that will be a great day for me indeed.
v/r,
CPT Butler

Response by SSG Leonard Johnson made Feb 25 at 2015 5:51 PM

2015-02-25T17:51:30-05:00

I take it like this... Jesus talked Respected and gave guidance go the Soldiers back in the days...Jesus know our career and what will happen. I have know regrets.

Response by GySgt Joe Strong made Feb 25 at 2015 6:34 PM

2015-02-25T18:34:02-05:00

My shortest answer is to go find and read "On Killing" by LTC Dave Grossman. I heartily recommend reading it before rather than after you've had live thru the situation. IMHO should be required reading for any MilPers who ever carry, especially in the line of Duty.
I have a longer answer but am going to have to get on a keyboard for that.

Response by SrA Matt Shuman made Feb 25 at 2015 6:40 PM

2015-02-25T18:40:50-05:00

My thought as being a Christian is that we still need to defend freedom. Even David of old fought to defend his family and way of life even as in there religious beliefs we can look at others in the bible.

Response by PO3 Kenny Alley made Feb 26 at 2015 9:57 AM

2015-02-26T09:57:16-05:00

My response would have to be this. I am Christian and we live by New Testament teachings. It states that we are all sinners but the Christ died for and paid the price for our sins. Therefore if we believe in and eccept Jesus as our savior then all sins can be forgiven. Forgiving yourself is the hard part sometimes, but God makes it easy.

Response by MSgt Allan Vrboncic made Feb 26 at 2015 10:10 AM

2015-02-26T10:10:32-05:00

In the original Hebrew the bible reads thou shall not murder." So, in defense "of yourself and this Country it is okay to kill justifiably. That is not murder.

Response by MSgt Michelle Mondia made Feb 26 at 2015 10:14 AM

2015-02-26T10:14:25-05:00

Jesus preached non violence this we know for sure. But what we also know and can focus on is the things he says people over look and don't do. i.e. When I was sick did help me, when I was naked Did you clothe me, hungry etc. so I feel like I'm not going to be saved simply by the things I didn't do. Like, I didn't kill, I didn't lie, etc. I think redemption is in the acts we perform not just what we obstain from doing. And if we must kill do it for yourself for survival not because you were "just doing your job" and atone appropriately as to give yourself peace.

Response by CPL Hayward Johnson made Feb 26 at 2015 12:14 PM

2015-02-26T12:14:08-05:00

Having a infantry background i can say i loose no sleep at night knowing what i have done in the past. In saying that I say even with my beliefs fighting a war and taking a life to protect a life..i.e. my platoon/ soldier's it was wither us or them and id be damned if it was us

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 2 at 2015 8:43 PM

2015-03-02T20:43:04-05:00

I'm still struggling to come to terms with that myself from my first tour of duty to Iraq from 2003 - 2004. I have no idea and have been trying to find answers myself.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 2 at 2015 9:29 PM

2015-03-02T21:29:57-05:00

I've talked with my pastor about doing that while I was in Nam. He told me being in a combat situation and taking a life is what war is. Killing someone in civilian life, if you are defending your life or your families life, I don't see much difference in that and being in combat. I hope I never have to do that but I would if I had to. That's my take on it.

Response by SFC Pete Meyer made Mar 2 at 2015 10:01 PM

2015-03-02T22:01:28-05:00

You asking this question tells me you have not studied your bible.. I see some here have said thou shalt not kill.. But if you did your homework you would everything is written twice it the bible... The second witness thing. In Old Testament it say shall not kill and in the New Testament it says shall not murder. So which one is right? Well deutarmony 7 say to kill. So killing is ok.. Murder is wrong

Response by CW4 Jim Shelburn made Mar 2 at 2015 10:13 PM

2015-03-02T22:13:33-05:00

First, in the Old Testament, the ten commandments does include the injunction "Thou shalt not kill." The word "kill" here is the word for "murder" as when Cain "killed" his brother Able. Murder is an act of extreme selfishness, and it is condemned by God. In the New Testament, murderers will not inherit eternal life.

If the act of killing was wrong, then there are major contradictions in the Bible, and that is simply not true. In the Gospels, John the Baptist did not tell the soldiers to stop being soldiers. Also in the Gospels, and in the Book of Acts, Jesus and Peter both met Centurions. These men were either considered officers or Senior NCOs. They were not told to quit their professions.

In combat, personnel are trained, equipped, and given orders that may include killing a person in the military on the other side. Soldiers operate under rules of engagement (ROE). Combat is not forbidden in the Bible; but soldiers that abuse their position/power, intentionally kill the innocent have crossed the line.

I know some that served in combat as medics. In Viet Nam, I flew with one man who decided he could not fly gunships in combat. He transferred to a medevac unit and served with distinction.

Any Christian in the military must face this decision. The fact that you ask the question speaks well of you and your faith. I served two years in combat. Do I carry memories to this day? Yes. But as a Christian, I know that I have forgiveness in Jesus Christ.

Response by LTJG Robert M. made Mar 2 at 2015 10:29 PM

2015-03-02T22:29:09-05:00

Romans 13:1-5

Response by CW2 Eric Scott made Mar 3 at 2015 4:28 AM

2015-03-03T04:28:57-05:00

I use to be christian prior to war. After war I'm positive there is no god so it doesn't matter. I've seen threats to my country, I've never seen anything from god.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 3 at 2015 6:47 AM

2015-03-03T06:47:00-05:00

By reciting Psalm 18:39

Response by SSG Robert Rusinko made Mar 3 at 2015 12:38 PM

2015-03-03T12:38:25-05:00

I fought to keep my soldiers alive. Many Soldiers became Saints in the Catholic Church. Killing during war is not murder. SGT Hanner is correct about "Shall not Kill" and "Shall not Murder". I know what I did was justified during my time in combat. I made my peace with G-d. I have no regrets. If taking someone's life bothered one of my guys I would have gotten rid of him. In combat we all depended on each other. We could not have a week link. We never took joy in killing but if it was necessary it was done.

Response by LCDR Rabbah Rona Matlow made Mar 3 at 2015 8:13 PM

2015-03-03T20:13:11-05:00

I cannot speak to Christian theology, but as a Rabbi I can speak to this issue...here is the thing:

in the Ten Commandments, number 6, in the Hebrew is לא תרצח - lo tirtzach - Do not MURDER

If it said "Do not KILL" the Hebrew would be לא תהרוג - "Lo Taharog"...

So, while I don't know what the NT says about this, I can say categorically that by the Ten Commandments, you are NOT sinning if you take a life in war, self defense, or in a court mandated death sentence.

Response by LCpl Mark Lefler made Mar 3 at 2015 11:04 PM

2015-03-03T23:04:43-05:00

Christians have been killing and murdering for centuries. It's not new for them.

Response by 1SG Cameron M. Wesson made Mar 3 at 2015 11:11 PM

2015-03-03T23:11:09-05:00

My father was a WWII veteran who was at the Bulge and jumped the Rhine. He gave me the best concerning the taking of a life and being a Christian. He told me his father, a WWI vet, gave it to him. He said, "when it happens and it's over... Ask forgiveness... Hold no malice in your heart... And then make friends with the ghosts you created...". It was good advice for me... And I've provided the same to my son.

Response by CH (MAJ) Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 4 at 2015 12:04 AM

2015-03-04T00:04:03-05:00

The goal of any military campaign is to establish peace… And if necessary, to use weapons to establish it. Unfortunately, there are no winners in war.

Response by CH (CPT) Heather Davis made Mar 4 at 2015 3:05 AM

2015-03-04T03:05:30-05:00

Since the question deals with “a Christian,” the emphasis should be upon what the NT has to say about the matter. However, the question itself did not originate with the Christian church. Indeed, the issue predates the Christian era. Even in OT times believers faced the problem of involvement in war. Certainly Abraham had given some consideration to the issue prior to commencing armed action against Chedorlaomer’s coalition of kings (Genesis 14). He engaged the kings in battle in order to free his nephew Lot and his family.2 Since both testaments are the inspired Word of God and “profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness,”3 a consideration of the teaching of the whole of Scripture on this issue is in order. “If Christians are to have clear attitudes towards war, they must first come to some understanding of the subject in the Bible, including the Old Testament.”4 However, in order to keep within the length restraints of this article, the study will limit itself to what is revealed in the NT. The OT has much to say about war, but it is not often directly pertinent to the specific question upon which this study will focus.
Military service is a brotherhood of sorts because a fighting unit must be as one if it is to succeed under fire. It is a strange brotherhood since, in the passing of time, even enemies will regard themselves as having a bond forged in the horror of battle. That is why American and Japanese veterans can meet at Corregidor or Iwo Jima and British, American, and German veterans congregate on the beaches of Normandy fifty years after the fact and shed tears together for departed comrades in arms. Such a brotherhood, however, is not the supreme brotherhood that believers enter through the gospel of Christ.
Military service involves keeping faith with a vision for a nation’s freedom and greatness. Nothing less than total commitment is required of a soldier. Semper fi is more than a motto for the United States Marine Corps, it must be a way of life—and death. Without total commitment, a man or woman cannot serve as a good soldier in any army.

. Vol. 11: Master’s Seminary Journal Volume 11. 2000 (2) (214). Sun Valley, CA: The Master’s Seminary.

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 4 at 2015 7:59 AM

2015-03-04T07:59:57-05:00

The Israelites went to war on many occasions, and some were heralded for their fighting prowess including King David. I think it comes down to your personal relationship with God. This is something that can only be answered personally between you and He.

Response by CPO Norman Mauldin made Mar 4 at 2015 1:46 PM

2015-03-04T13:46:58-05:00

I am a fellow Christian and a 22 year Navy Veteran.

1. First of all If the ten commandments is translated from the tora, thou shalt not kill means to lie in wait and do murder.

2. God commanded Israel into battle and even told them at times to decimate the enemy.

3. God doesn't expect us to sit on our laurels when evil comes at us, pray, trust in him and handle the situation. Even if this means sending them to him to be judged.

4. As is the case with ISIS if they are killing Christians just for being a christian, this makes them our enemy: God, Country, Navy: and it is our duty to take the fight to them and keep them away from our family's and homeland.

Response by GySgt John Irwin made Mar 5 at 2015 3:24 AM

2015-03-05T03:24:16-05:00

1For everything there is a season, and a time for every matter under heaven:

2a time to be born, and a time to die;
a time to plant, and a time to pluck up what is planted;
3a time to kill, and a time to heal;
a time to break down, and a time to build up;
4a time to weep, and a time to laugh;
a time to mourn, and a time to dance;
5a time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together;
a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;
6a time to seek, and a time to lose;
a time to keep, and a time to cast away;
7a time to tear, and a time to sew;
a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;
8a time to love, and a time to hate;
a time for war, and a time for peace.

Response by CMDCM Gene Treants made Mar 5 at 2015 5:56 PM

2015-03-05T17:56:35-05:00

When you join the Armed Forces, you KNOW that there is a chance you will have to take a life, even of you are in a service that is not traditionally front line combat (ie. Navy or Air Force). When I joined the Navy, I knew there was a chance I could be in a situation where my life was going to be on the line and I might have to take someone else's. At that time I was a member of a Greek Orthodox Church and I talked to my Priest. He explained the difference between murder and killing and that defending my country was NOT murder. I went into the Navy with a clear conscience.

Today I am retired and I carry. Also have a clear conscience if I have to defend my life or that of my family or friends. I might have to defend a complete stranger someday, but I will do so with a sense of community, not defensiveness.

Response by SGT Edward Thomas made Mar 5 at 2015 10:41 PM

2015-03-05T22:41:22-05:00

Check out the classic movie "Sgt York". It may answer what you're looking for.

Response by SA Harold Hansmann made Mar 6 at 2015 3:35 PM

2015-03-06T15:35:20-05:00

Simple. Shoot the sommina beech

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 6 at 2015 3:50 PM

2015-03-06T15:50:32-05:00

CPL, just to start off with; I am not a Christian man. However, my faith does have a certain level of disdain in taking the lives of others. The best way I have found to reconcile the possibility or action of taking a life in DEFENSE is to remind yourself that it is just that. Defense. And you have to compartmentalize work form home, and deployment from garrison. Downrange, it is life for life. Consider this; by dropping one man, how many lives are you potentially saving? I do understand the moral dilema. It is one that near every combat servicemember faces. You are not alone. The big thing is to find that one rationalization that justifies your actions. I would also recommend speaking with your religious leader about your concerns. The chaplain and your civilian religious leader should both be useful resources to help you cope with your dilema.

Response by SGT John Rauch made Mar 6 at 2015 4:08 PM

2015-03-06T16:08:42-05:00

King David was a man of war, he killed many of his enemies, he had uriah murdered and still the bible calls him a man after God's own heart

Response by PO2 Pualani Ralph made Mar 6 at 2015 8:10 PM

2015-03-06T20:10:21-05:00

I grew up with "God forgives all". I have also grown up with "God has our lives written in stone, you are sent to Earth for a purpose and you will serve that purpose and God will bring you home". There are so many ways that God's voice has been translated to all of us. Every Priest/Preacher/Reverend/Rabbi etc. all have the same general beliefs regarding their respective religion that they preach, however they also voice their own personal beliefs as well. We start to go off of their opinions and our own beliefs start to contradict themselves (I.E. I mean how can "God forgives all" be true if there is a Hell?)

There is so much controversy about Bibles and which version is right/wrong, there is so much corruption within churches that makes it even harder to understand what the truth really is.

My answer to you is: It all depends on what you ultimately believe. If you believe your life is in God's hands then God will tell you what to do in that moment. If you end up killing someone in self defense then God must have wanted that person home as they have served their purpose which that purpose may be to ultimately answer your question.

Response by SFC Walter Mack made Mar 11 at 2015 9:42 PM

2015-03-11T21:42:29-04:00

I have no qualms about ending another person's life in the defense of myself or others. If you are silly enough to put yourself in a situation that results in you threatening my life, I will end you. Also, I love Jesus, and I'm far more prepared to defend the decision of ending another person's life than I am to defend many other choices I've made. I'm pretty sure murder is the one commandment I'll manage to avoid breaking in my lifetime.

Response by SGT Alfred Cox made Mar 11 at 2015 10:53 PM

2015-03-11T22:53:51-04:00

easy to me.. I want to come home alive..plain and simple. I will do what ever it takes. now when i stand before the man himself so be it.. what ever happens happens

Response by SGT William Hardy made Mar 12 at 2015 2:49 PM

2015-03-12T14:49:59-04:00

After 30 years of military army and national guard and 20 years in EMS its better them than me

Response by Cpl Brad MarkW made Mar 17 at 2015 2:17 PM

2015-03-17T14:17:25-04:00

Thou shalt not murder. A simple translation error change everything for christians. If you don't want to kill, don't join the military.

Response by SSG Jeffrey Spencer made Mar 23 at 2015 1:24 PM

2015-03-23T13:24:41-04:00

Many passages in the Bible provide for defensive and protective actions. The Bible doesn't command you to be a martyr.

Thou shalt not kill is a translation from the original Hebrew script that says "Thou shalt not murder." There is a distinct difference in the two.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 23 at 2015 2:27 PM

2015-03-23T14:27:28-04:00

"If a thief is found breaking in and is struck so that he dies, there shall be no bloodguilt for him, but if the sun has risen on him, there shall be bloodguilt for him. He shall surely pay. If he has nothing, then he shall be sold for his theft."

There are so many quotes within the Bible that states you have the right to DEFEND yourself. Key Word, DEFEND.

http://www.openbible.info/topics/defending_yourself

Hope this helps. :-)

Response by SSgt Joe V. made Mar 23 at 2015 2:41 PM

2015-03-23T14:41:07-04:00

A psychologist would have a field day in my brain sorting through memories and my coinciding 'feelings' or lack thereof during incidents of which we speak. The first time was the only rough time...after that a bout of dissociative thinking, or in military terms, training kicked in and the will to live and make sure those around me lived were the only feelings till it was all said and done...Someone else said this, but I will include a picture and be done.

Response by Sgt Adam Jennings made Mar 23 at 2015 8:02 PM

2015-03-23T20:02:15-04:00

Well it's not so hard since the Bible never once says to jot kill. It specifically says not to murder. Those terms are not interchangeable, killing in self defense is justifiable. Murder is premeditated and evil, plain and simple.

Response by SFC Collin McMillion made Mar 24 at 2015 7:09 PM

2015-03-24T19:09:22-04:00

I believe the bible says to turn the other cheek, but I don't remember anything about being shot or shot at and not returning fire.

Response by BG David Fleming III made Mar 24 at 2015 8:08 PM

2015-03-24T20:08:51-04:00

I want to believe that God has a special place in heaven for those who sacrifice their lives to protect this great country. I sure everyone's of those soldier's prayed for his protection before fighting their final battle.

Response by 1SG Robert C. made Mar 24 at 2015 8:16 PM

2015-03-24T20:16:36-04:00

Even God sent the Israelites to fight for their lands and freedom after the Ten Commandments were given to Moses and the Isrealites. The difference is killing to protect your, battle buddies lives is not a sin but killing because you have the power, ability and tje desire without regards of life is a sin.

Response by SSgt Rachel Shelley (Cook) made Mar 25 at 2015 2:37 AM

2015-03-25T02:37:22-04:00

I believe that these men have answered the question rather well. It is something that you will certainly need to pray about, but do remember there were army's that fought for the Lord in the Bible. Consider the stand you are taking as a Christian to fight for your nation as a Godly man, to protect that which He has blessed you with. Then consider the opposition. It isn't a license for extermination, but it provides context for fighting and the unfortunate possibility to take a life when absolutely necessary. I pray you find clarity and resolve, Aaron.

Response by SSG Byron Napoleon made Mar 25 at 2015 11:47 AM

2015-03-25T11:47:31-04:00

In Arabic countries, terrorism has flourished. If you had spent time with interpreters as I have had... ask them why do they not fight the terrorist. Their response was... If its God's will that I die, then I must die. God gave you all the things you need to survive. You will die when come time, but before that time, you fight, you defend and you do all you can do to survive. That is your main goal in life. God has done his job, now it is your turn to apply what God has put on this earth. To live and let live is your mission.

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made Mar 25 at 2015 6:53 PM

2015-03-25T18:53:39-04:00

No where in the bible does it say I can not defend myself against a person who is trying to harm me or kill me.

Response by SSG Robert Burns made Mar 25 at 2015 10:38 PM

2015-03-25T22:38:39-04:00

I don't consider it "taking" a life when it's self defense as much as I consider it the aggressor gave theirs. It's no more the walls fault that you broke your hand when you punched it.

Response by Cpl Tou Lee Yang made Mar 26 at 2015 1:36 AM

2015-03-26T01:36:45-04:00

I remember a Marine with the last name Sailor. He was as religious as you can ever find in a man. I asked him that type of question, "if you believe in god so much, why would you join the military, let alone the Marines. Especially when you're last name is Sailor". He stated that God had told him to do it and that God will forgive as he has always done. God even told him that he would be stationed in Jacksonville, FL. Sure enough, when orders came out a few months later he was stationed where he said god told him.

Response by SFC Charles S. made Mar 26 at 2015 2:00 PM

2015-03-26T14:00:04-04:00

Ok, I'm probably going to get Slayed for this but I'm share this article because I am a christian, and I have a true belief that what I have done in my life is and has been forgiven.

Many people have misunderstood the Bible on the subject of killing primarily because of an incorrect translation in the old King James version of the Bible. The sixth commandment, in Exodus 20:13, does not actually say, "Thou shalt not kill" as translated in the old King James. A more accurate translation is provided in many of the newer versions, such as the NIV, which says, "You shall not murder." The Bible forbids the act of murder, which means the unjustified taking of a person's life (including suicide, abortion, and euthanasia), but it doesn't forbid all killing. In fact, it is sometimes very adamant that killing is the right thing to do, but it must be justified in God's eyes. The Bible allows for three situations where killing is justified:

Killing in warfare

The Bible offers many examples where God commands His people to kill their enemy aggressors in warfare. In Genesis 10 through 12 (specifically 10:5 and 11:9), God created the institution of nations, and determined that people would be divided according to national entities. God condemned aggression from one nation against another, and he sanctioned warfare as a means of protection from aggressors. The Old Testament is filled with commands from God to Moses, Joshua, David, and many others, to kill their enemy aggressors. Deuteronomy 20:1 says, "When you go to war against your enemies and see horses and chariots and an army greater than yours, do not be afraid of them, because the LORD your God, who brought you up out of Egypt, will be with you."

Sometimes God even commanded the unmerciful annihilation of evil nations. Deuteronomy 2:33-34 says, "The LORD our God delivered him over to us and we struck him down, together with his sons and his whole army. At that time we took all his towns and completely destroyed them--men, women and children. We left no survivors."

Self-defense

By the same principles as for killing in warfare, we know that God wants us to defend ourselves, and if an aggressor is too threatening and persistent, especially if we are in fear for our lives, then we are justified in killing the aggressor. This is actually what is happening in warfare, when a nation becomes an aggressor and sends its troops to take over another nation, and the troops killing that nation's innocent citizens. This is what Saddam Hussein did in Kuwait in 1990. This principle can be extended to apply to individuals as well as nations. If a criminal threatens someone's life with a gun, then we are justified in killing that criminal on the basis of self-defense, and our courts definitely respect this argument as well. This is also why policemen are justified in killing criminals when the criminal has put someone else's life in danger, and he will not submit to arrest.

Capital punishment

Genesis 9:5-6 says, "And for your lifeblood I will surely demand an accounting. I will demand an accounting from every animal. And from each man, too, I will demand an accounting for the life of his fellow man. Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed; for in the image of God has God made man." This passage tells us that God commands that murderers should be executed.

Again in this case, killing is not only justified, but commanded by God. This passage can also be applied to the situations of warfare and self-defense as well.

Response by SSG Gelbert Samsung made Mar 26 at 2015 6:26 PM

2015-03-26T18:26:16-04:00

You ask GOD for forgiveness and mercy. Keep faith and always pray!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2015 7:22 PM

2015-03-26T19:22:32-04:00

Being a Christian doesn't mean we have to allow others to take our lives, or that we can't defend the lives of others. "Thou shalt not kill" would more accurately be understood in current language/culture as "Thou shalt not murder". You should only kill in self defense/defense of others, never for enjoyment, or in retaliation. As Saved Christians AND members of the military we walk a tighter line than most, because no matter your chosen career field, you are in a profession of arms that deals in providing lethal consequences to our enemies. Even medical professionals and chaplains are enablers for the trigger pullers. So if you joined the military to uphold and defend the Constitution, your heads in the right place; but if you joined to get the chance to live out Call of Duty... you have a head and a heart problem.

Response by MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca made Mar 26 at 2015 10:28 PM

2015-03-26T22:28:15-04:00

Laying down one's life for their brothers and sisters in arms is one thing but allowing one's life to be taken by some underserving a-hole, no way!

Response by SPC Bernie Davies made Mar 26 at 2015 10:40 PM

2015-03-26T22:40:31-04:00

I did not accept Jesus as my Lord and Savior until after I returned from Vietnam. Yes, I have blood on my hands. Of course the devil tossed the idea at me that if I had killed I couldn't be a Christian. I discussed this with a Bible teacher who surprisingly did not offer me the standard 10 Commandments "thou shalt not kill vs. thou shalt not murder" argument. Rather he quoted from Matthew (not sure where exactly now) where the responsibility for my actions as a soldier (aside from outright wrong) falls on the leadership I was under, thus the president of the US. United States troops do not make war to kill, rape, plunder and conquer and so forth. I believe we do have ideals that our nation was founded on good and right. Those get warped and twisted (think Washington politicians) but the majority of us have the right heart and mind.

Response by MSG David Chappell made Mar 26 at 2015 11:42 PM

2015-03-26T23:42:59-04:00

In all things there is a time a time for peace and a time for war

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 27 at 2015 8:08 AM

2015-03-27T08:08:12-04:00

I have never had to take a life not have I been put in a position to take a life but if I were I would just tell my self as a Christian that this person/persons are trying to take away my right to practice my belief and potentially my childrens right to grow up and practice what they want to believe!! It is my right and my duty to protect not only what I believe but to protect my country so that it can practice whatever it chooses to believe!

Response by SSG Leonard Johnson made Mar 31 at 2015 11:39 AM

2015-03-31T11:39:37-04:00

That's simple,
One....I'm not perfect, their is only One perfect living person today. That is Jesus Christ, who died and risen for our sins.
I try to forgive people each and everyday day. Some bad stuff happen to me while back from the sandbox. Only my faith in Jesus Christ saved me. I was down in the carpet, and next to nothing. He was the only one who saved me.
With all that said.....Our Lord loves all Soldiers. No mater what. and no matter what they did the past or what they worshipped in the past. God doesn't want you to be a punk. and he would like for people to stick up for other Christians and people who can't help themselves. I'm pretty sure God doesn't want us as Christian Soldiers to stand by and not Cap a ISIS dude if we see a act of rape, a target of opportunity, if they engaging us for example.

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made Mar 31 at 2015 11:17 PM

2015-03-31T23:17:07-04:00

Can I love my neighbor yet kill him when he attempts to kill me, hurt me and my family? I can I do not believe I am sinning if I use self defense but only enough to repel my attacker.

Response by SSG Jeffrey Spencer made Apr 1 at 2015 11:53 AM

2015-04-01T11:53:24-04:00

The Scripture delineates a distinction between killing and murdering. “You shall not kill” is actually not a command found in the Ten Commandments. The command from scripture in the original language actually says “You shall not murder” (Exodus 20:13). The Hebrew word for “murder” literally means “the intentional, premeditated killing of another person with malice.”

If a thief is caught breaking in and is struck so that he dies, the defender is not guilty of bloodshed. (Exodus 22:2)

Killing becomes murder when (and only when) it is not properly justified, and the justifications are clear: you can use whatever force necessary to protect your own life from a hostile aggressor, or to save the life of an innocent from such imminent, life-threatening danger.

Response by CPL George Mann Jr made Apr 3 at 2015 12:08 PM

2015-04-03T12:08:31-04:00

I would much rather remain available to try and reconcile that need than to be dead from mulling over the need to have to do so. Your purpose for being in the face of the enemy is to defend righteousness and humanity from EVIL. that Evil is more than ready to kill you where you may feel the need to hesitate in killing him.

Response by PO2 Glenn Altschuld made Apr 8 at 2015 8:32 AM

2015-04-08T08:32:36-04:00

Why would any reconciliation be necessary?

"..and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.”
—Luke 22:36

Response by CPT Jack Durish made Jun 2 at 2015 10:57 PM

2015-06-02T22:57:29-04:00

I'm not going to pile on. Many people have already commented on the difference between killing and murdering and that there is no injunction against the first, only the second. However, I will go one step further: To fail to kill the enemy is to aid in a murder making one just as guilty as the murderer. Thus, I submit that the failure to kill one's enemy is just as much a sin, a mortal sin, as willfully murdering another. Life is sacred. That includes the lives of your family and your nation. That includes your life. Preserve them as though you believe them to be sacred even if that requires the taking of life.

Response by SGT Kevin Brown made Jun 2 at 2015 11:11 PM

2015-06-02T23:11:06-04:00

I was an Atheist when I joined, but grew up a Christian. Struggling with this moral delima, provided me with many sleepless nights during my first tour in 2004. Talking to the Catholic Chaplin about it, I learned that the commandment "thou shall not kill" better translates to "thou shall not murder", which makes more since. Now that I converted to Catholicism in 2009 and have read many books on the topic such as "On Killing", it has become easier to reconcile. When it comes to self defense or personal protection (which includes myself, my loved ones, my home, my community, my state and my country) the bible is clear that a man has the right to do so. In Catholicism, we also recognize the "Just" war, which justifies the need for killing in a war that is "Justified".

Response by SPC Larry Boutwell made Jun 3 at 2015 12:29 AM

2015-06-03T00:29:28-04:00

Dont worry cpl!!!my godless heathen ass has got your six...

Response by Capt Jeff S. made Jun 3 at 2015 3:06 PM

2015-06-03T15:06:03-04:00

As Christians, we are to obey our Earthly masters -- whether they be spiritual, political or otherwise. Did Jesus not say render unto Caesar what is Caesar's? And when speaking to followers about our governing authorities, did not Paul say this to the Romans?

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Romans 13: Submission to Governing Authorities

1Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. 4For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience.

6This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing. 7Give to everyone what you owe them: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor."

=======================================================

If you are serving your country in the military and your country sends you off to war... the blood you shed isn't blood you are personally responsible for. It will be upon the heads of Congress, i.e., those who sent you. We elect the members of Congress to represent us, and they are paid the big bucks to make the tough decisions -- like declaring war on other nations. [I won't get into the decision making of this current Administration as that is a whole other separate issue... but it's like so many supporters of this Administration have said, "You respect the office, whether or not you respect the person in it."

As long as your orders are lawful, you are required to follow them.