How many NCOs have had senior level officers directly and inappropriately interfere with their leadership?

MSG Mark Million — Thu, 13 Jul 2017 13:08:13 -0400

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 13 at 2017 1:10 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 13 Jul 2017 13:10:12 -0400

I've been lucky enough to have Senior Officers stay out of my lane and not interfere with my leadership. But then, I don't give them a reason to jump into my lane.

Response by SPC Margaret Higgins made Jul 13 at 2017 1:12 PM

SPC Margaret Higgins — Thu, 13 Jul 2017 13:12:11 -0400

MSGT Mark Million: This seems highly Unfair to me; and not becoming on the part of senior level officers.
Most Sincerely, Margaret C. Higgin U.S. Army Retired

Response by MSG Mark Million made Jul 13 at 2017 1:21 PM

MSG Mark Million — Thu, 13 Jul 2017 13:21:38 -0400

To give context to this question, I once had a soldier who was flippant, rude, and demanding to me in a series of email replies while I was E-7 and they were E-5. I went to counsel the soldier on the subject, was told by the 1SG and Commander that it would be supported. When I did the counseling the LTC she worked for in a clinic outside of our chain of command called up my chain of command and demanded we stop picking on his soldier. (who we at her unit retained administrative control of). Basically as soon as this happened despite the conclusive proof that I had showing the soldier being blatantly disrespectful to me (I was her rater for her NCOERs), I was instructed by my command to leave this soldier alone, and to destroy the counseling, and basically verbally counseled for enforcing standards of conduct upon a junior NCO. This happened several years ago, but something reminded me of it recently and I wanted others opinions. I initially pointed out to the soldier that they needed to be respectful in their correspondence to senior NCOs on a demanding email that came to me. It was the blatantly disrespectful reply to this that triggered the counseling.

Response by MSgt Jason McClish made Jul 13 at 2017 1:23 PM

MSgt Jason McClish — Thu, 13 Jul 2017 13:23:46 -0400

I have. With 8 layers of chain of command, I told my supervisor I was going to give Airman X a letter of counseling. My superiors didn't like that and basically ordered to verbally counsel the Airman and document it via MFR or it would come back at me cone evaluation time. I have many stories, this is just one of them.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 13 at 2017 2:05 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 13 Jul 2017 14:05:57 -0400

I have seen it many times. When a counseling comes up, or an NCOER, for a negative act, it got swept under the rug. The biggest reason was so it didn't look bad on their chance to get promoted, or transferred to another unit. For the many times I have seen this done at different levels (BN and Unit), it seems like it is becoming "par for the course".

I do not like what I am seeing recently. I may not be at the level that others may be. But, STANDARDS ARE STANDARDS. When someone is friends with another person, is related to them, or works with someone outside their Chain of Command who is higher rank, it should not interfere. However, the "Good old boy" mentality is far from gone.

Even on the base I am located on, the opportunity for employment is limited depending on who you know. I am in the National Guard and there is a base just a couple miles from where I live. I have applied for many jobs throughout the years and have been passed up for other individuals based on who they know, or are related to.

That being said. It seems to be a matter of who you know. Not necessarily what is right.

Response by Maj John Bell made Jul 13 at 2017 2:37 PM

Maj John Bell — Thu, 13 Jul 2017 14:37:31 -0400

Once had a LtCol's wife have an wives' call with each company. Where she told the wives that if they didn't like what the Company Commanders' were doing, feel free to call the Company Commanders' wives and bitch.

I did two things:
1) I told my wife to give the wives the number of the LtCols wife
2) I asked the LtCol, "When was the change of Command Ceremony, where your wife assumes command?"

Fortunately, he removed her (his wife's) head and %&$#@&% in her chest cavity.

Response by CPO Glenn Moss made Jul 13 at 2017 11:46 PM

CPO Glenn Moss — Thu, 13 Jul 2017 23:46:51 -0400

This is part of the basic job description of NCOs...dealing with micromanagers, nitpickers, training stupid JOs, dealing with commands which don't follow or support the rules and regulations, senior officers who overstep their bounds, and much more.

The first thing any senior NCO should do is get a coffee cup that he can sip from as his front.

The second thing any senior NCO should do is learn how and when to sagely use the word "Noted".

But above all...the senior NCO needs to be RIGHT.

The junior NCOs? They need to work up to these three things so that when they become senior NCOs, people understand that their word is law.

Senior NCOs RUN the military. Get a grip and make that happen.

Response by SMSgt Lawrence McCarter made Jul 14 at 2017 9:24 AM

SMSgt Lawrence McCarter — Fri, 14 Jul 2017 09:24:34 -0400

Except for one MSgt, I've never had a Senior Officer or NCO overrule anything I had even done in over 20 years in uniform. I took that up the chain right away with that MSgt and He was relieved of His position within two days as a result. (I was a SSgt at the time) I have however had some outstanding support from My seniors. I don't feel I did anything unreasonable and apparently they didn't either and both supported and said the same things I did. Most thing never got to their level anyway, I managed to handle and correct things at a lower level most the time. I also found that My support and standing up for My own people they would do things above and beyond what was expected because they wanted to. I gave proper respect to rank but was not intimidated by it, what is right is right, what is wrong is wrong. To get respect first You have to give respect and don't confuse that with having no backbone !

Response by SGT Paul Mackay made Jul 14 at 2017 12:51 PM

SGT Paul Mackay — Fri, 14 Jul 2017 12:51:09 -0400

yes

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 28 at 2020 11:17 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 28 Feb 2020 11:17:11 -0500

In my experience Aviation Branch is notorious for this. Saw and experienced it far too many times where senior warrants and commissioned officers routinely "drove drunk" all over the NCO lane.
Funniest remark I heard at the end of my career was a bird Colonel chastise a group of officers for running all over what was clearly my functional area during an inspection and telling them to get back in their lane. Needless to say I was toast from that point until I got my blue ID card.