How would you handle a Soldier (one automatically promoted to E-5) with a serious learning disability?

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 30 Aug 2016 20:46:11 -0400

This Soldier was transferred to me because their previous SL was ineffective. I had them write an introductory auto-Bio for me and the SM admitted that they were diagnosed with an untreated learning disability as a child (I already suspected). SM had served nearly 7 years as a reservist and had difficulty with basic training tasks, repeatedly lost equipment, and had serious socialization issues.

Response by Maj Marty Hogan made Aug 30 at 2016 8:48 PM

Maj Marty Hogan — Tue, 30 Aug 2016 20:48:11 -0400

Has there been a medical diagnosis? Or mis diagnosis?

Response by SFC George Smith made Aug 30 at 2016 9:44 PM

SFC George Smith — Tue, 30 Aug 2016 21:44:49 -0400

I did not Know they still Had Auto Promotions Past E-4 ... thought they were ended in the Early 90's

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 30 at 2016 9:50 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 30 Aug 2016 21:50:27 -0400

First, find out what the learning disability is so that I can work with it in a proper manner. Research, and if available, line up some head start classes for the SM to take. Then, line up the recruiter and the entire CoC this SM had in the past and put my boot square in their Six for not helping this SM.....with an additional boot for the recruiter.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 30 at 2016 10:34 PM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 30 Aug 2016 22:34:02 -0400

Based on what I'm reading here, I would think some form of Autism, maybe Asperger's? I am not a medical type, but having experienced a similar subordinate while on AD. You really need to try and get him evaluated and as soon as possible and then plan out a training plan to get him up to speed. There is also the possibility he needs to be separated for the needs of the service. Good luck.

Response by 1SG Patrick Burke made Aug 31 at 2016 12:10 AM

1SG Patrick Burke — Wed, 31 Aug 2016 00:10:45 -0400

Is the Company Commander and 1SG aware?

Response by CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 31 at 2016 12:15 AM

CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 31 Aug 2016 00:15:32 -0400

First, you should review his Service Records, then sit down with the SN Soldier and informed him of your concerns about his safety, security and his welfare and the security of the command. Then ask him what kind of problems he is having currently and in the past. You need for him to understand that you have concerns too. Mainly the welfare and safety of your soldiers that you are responsible for as well as himself. If this is an ongoing problem with his actions of misbehavior and he confirmed what you have suspected, then I suggest that you go up the Chain of Command and have the soldier seek medical assistance before he hurts himself and especially others. Just this Marines opinion.
Semper Fidelis,
J.K.Kaupe

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 31 at 2016 1:00 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 31 Aug 2016 01:00:03 -0400

That is a hard one, I say this be sure he is somehow an NCO and you don't want Soldiers to see you lowering the standards, even though I suspect the Soldiers know this NCO has a learning disability. I say get him evaluated step one, then get with your COC / NCO Support Channel step 2 to find a job this guy can do where he is away from working with a lot of Soldiers. The good thing is he is a reservist, the bad thing is someone along the way definitely did not do their job.

Response by 1SG Al Brown made Aug 31 at 2016 11:02 AM

1SG Al Brown — Wed, 31 Aug 2016 11:02:37 -0400

Automatic promotion does not equate automatic retention at the current rank. Losing equipment and a long term struggle to perform the daily responsibilities of a Sergeant are not negotiable behaviors. It is unlikely that this NCO will retain his rank for long. Use your resources to improve, but don't hesitate to cut sling load if your Soldiers are not being led properly.

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Aug 31 at 2016 11:57 AM

SGM Erik Marquez — Wed, 31 Aug 2016 11:57:37 -0400

Have him go to the Education center, nearest Active duty base and speak to a counselor (reservist yes?) May have to wait for a drill weekend while he is "on orders". I admit, I do not know the buisness rules for a reservist using AD resources like the Ed center.
If he can get into the ed center and see a counselor, they may be able to suggest a plan. If AD resources are not an option.. look up local adult learning centers in the area... likley there will be one that offers adult education evaluation, and learning. As other's have already said.. the FIRST step is this SM wanting to improve his position,, your wants do not come into play yet.. THEN the issue has to be identified, before a plan to move forward can be conceived.

Lots to do before the first classroom assignment and homework session takes place.

Response by Sgt Christopher Wenzel made Aug 31 at 2016 4:00 PM

Sgt Christopher Wenzel — Wed, 31 Aug 2016 16:00:54 -0400

Who the f-ck gets automatically promoted as an NCO?! How is that even possible???

Send that cat to Medical and get him evaluated. Under certain conditions, homeboy will get discharged. That being said, if the disability was never disclosed while initially enlisting, that's punishable under the UCMJ.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 31 at 2016 5:54 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 31 Aug 2016 17:54:47 -0400

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member A little bit off topic, but nobody in the Army gets automatically promoted to SGT or SSG; Soldiers only get added to the promotion standing list without getting boarded if they meet certain criteria and get recommended by their CO; after that they still need to make points in their respective MOS.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 6 at 2016 7:16 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 06 Sep 2016 07:16:41 -0400

Have you counseled the SM on his failure to meet standards? If you have and there is a long history of the Soldier not meeting standards then the solution seems simple. Talk to your COC and once the Soldier pins E5 have him admin reduced back to E4. Show the Soldier the counseling statements to show him the history of not meeting standards. He may be a great guy and do fine as an E4 but if he has problems meeting basic standards then he does not need to be an NCO. You would not be doing anyone any favors by allowing him to advance in his career and get himself in a position where he gets into serious trouble or causes a major incident with a subordinate.

Response by CPO Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 6 at 2016 7:42 AM

CPO Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 06 Sep 2016 07:42:36 -0400

Discharge. Failure to adapt to a military lifestyle. Or doesn't have the aptitude to perform tasks at the level of rank he/she is currently at.

Response by CPO Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 6 at 2016 7:50 AM

CPO Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 06 Sep 2016 07:50:20 -0400

It's not your job to 'figure out' what their disability is. Use your resources and COC. Send them to work life or the Army's HR equivalent and/or have them get a mental health evaluation to see if they are fit to be in the military. Then get in your manuals and find out the protocol for handling a situation where a member consistently fails to perform at their assigned tasking. You are not doing anyone any favors by retaining a member that does not have the aptitude to perform their job. Ask yourself this: "Am I ok carrying or letting my fellow soldiers carry this persons weight?"

Response by SSG Thomas Gallegos made Sep 6 at 2016 7:52 AM

SSG Thomas Gallegos — Tue, 06 Sep 2016 07:52:34 -0400

LEAD! lead this young man in the right direction. Its obvious no one took the time to effectively counsel him or for that matter be a real leader. A chance to shine if you will. Meaning you have a great opportunity to teach your Soldiers and fellow leaders around you that hard work will work. Not only for you but for that young NCO. All the best in this endeavor.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 6 at 2016 8:43 AM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 06 Sep 2016 08:43:09 -0400

This soldier has decided to serve his country. if he's giving 100% and is trying, its a failure of leadership to cut sling load on him because he has a a disability. We have to balance that with whats in the best interest of the soldiers he has to work with and support. Are we holding the rest of the team back? Is he dangerous to the other soldiers? Can we spend a little more time with him and get beyond the social issues and have them become a productive member of the team? Sometimes military isn't for everyone, but its the leader's job to make due with the group of soldiers he (she's) assigned.

Response by SSG Terry Back (Martin-Back) made Sep 6 at 2016 8:55 AM

SSG Terry Back (Martin-Back) — Tue, 06 Sep 2016 08:55:32 -0400

I really find this story difficult to grasp. First, how did the SM get through Basic/AIT without being counseled and returned/chaptered for inability to adapt? To often in the military, (and in business), we focus to much of our time with the weakest links of our chain, instead of focusing on the strongest links and making them stronger. The best thing you can do for this SM is use the systems/facilities you have at hand, document and counsel the SM and send them down the road. The job of an NCO is to supervise and train "all" of the troops they are appointed over and not focus on one. Your unit is only as strong as it's weakest link; would you put your life on the line and trust that link?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 6 at 2016 9:39 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 06 Sep 2016 09:39:53 -0400

I've dealt with this before. What it boiled down to is, if the problem doesn't prevent him from performing his job than he is in clear; nothing you can do except track his mistakes on paper. He has to be diagnosed with a specific learning disability and that disability has to affect his performance. The psychologist is the one who recommends chapter for this.

Response by SSgt Scooby Armbruster made Sep 6 at 2016 9:54 AM

SSgt Scooby Armbruster — Tue, 06 Sep 2016 09:54:10 -0400

As a Ssgt in the corp i have a LD as i was growing up my DI tools me to work harder and don't give up now and in your rest of your life and today i live by what he said and im a better person for it

Response by SFC Mike Lewis made Sep 6 at 2016 10:01 AM

SFC Mike Lewis — Tue, 06 Sep 2016 10:01:41 -0400

The first step is to address the primary issue and get a diagnosis. the Soldier's issue is one that is incompatible with military service per regulation, it is what it is and needs to be handled accordingly. If it's one that can be treated, then seek treatment and/or therapy. Meanwhile, counsel the Soldier that his performance is not what's expected of a SGT and will improve or further action will be taken to protect the mission, the organization, and fellow Soldiers. If therapy works and his performance improves to meet standards, that's great. If not, administrative reduction boards exist for a reason.

Without knowing details this situation brings bigger problems to light. First, automatic promotions to SGT. If a Soldier hasn't been boarded, there's a reason that leadership within the unit has identified. Auto promotion is terrible when talking about the NCO Corps.

Second is the SPC ranks. I've seen many E-5s that are decent Soldiers but had no business in leadership roles. These are Sergeants (rank), not Noncommissioned Officers. SPEC5 was gone before my time, but it may be a good idea to bring it back. Let a Soldier develop further if needed and be boarded as an E-5 to become an NCO. If incapable of succeeding then, well it's time to go. Not making SGT and succeeding to make SSG is a way to thin the herd while allowing a Soldier to develop without stripes, where he further weakens the NCO Corps.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 6 at 2016 10:09 AM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 06 Sep 2016 10:09:14 -0400

Many of the responses revolve around working with the soldier so he can become productive. He is a Sergeant, s leader, an NCO, if he can't complete basic training tasks he shouldn't be an E5, he should be a PFC and when he is able to perform at the level of a SGT then be promoted through the ranks. An ineffective NCO is dangerous to a units cohesion and discipline. I would encourage reevaluating why he is an NCO and if he cannot perform as an NCO maybe he shouldn't be one until he can. It's ridiculous that the advice is to train the soldier whom should be training the junior enlisted. He is a SGT either he is able to preform his duties or not, his learning disability is an excuse to his being a poor NCO.
I am not hating on the man for his learning disability, more on the establishment for promoting someone that as said above cannot perform BASIC training tasks. Bust him down to an E3 and train him properly to become an effective NCO.

Response by SSgt Bruce Wood made Sep 6 at 2016 10:13 AM

SSgt Bruce Wood — Tue, 06 Sep 2016 10:13:02 -0400

Sounds like this is an individual that should not be in the military. The military is one place even though it may sound discriminatory is not a place for someone with these problems. It would be for his own safety and the safety of others especially in a combat zone. In a combat zone you have to be alert and be able to move and react in a sec without hesitation. If you hesitate and lose your equipment you will endanger yourself along with others. This is not discriminatory but safety.

Response by MSG Michael McEleney made Sep 6 at 2016 10:22 AM

MSG Michael McEleney — Tue, 06 Sep 2016 10:22:14 -0400

The Reserve and National Guard both tend to hold on to people to keep up their numbers. But the soldiers problem should have been recognized well before he made Sgt. How did he pass WLC with a learning disability? If your CofC has an educational specialist or a psychologist available have him seen. If he's otherwise a good soldier find a job that requires rote to asks and little socialization.

Response by SMSgt Steve Neal made Sep 6 at 2016 10:34 AM

SMSgt Steve Neal — Tue, 06 Sep 2016 10:34:33 -0400

At this point, after their self-admission, I HAVE to report what could turn into a future training incident or combat mission failure to my superiors for the member's immedite medical or mental assessment. Find out what's wrong and what are the limiting factors of their impairment... If all previous negative events are supported by a life-long, untreatable disability, then reassignment to a non-critical mission support role or return to civilian life might be warranted.

Response by SP5 Bob Rudolph made Sep 6 at 2016 10:43 AM

SP5 Bob Rudolph — Tue, 06 Sep 2016 10:43:34 -0400

When Project 100,000 (also known as McNamara's 100,000) was promulgated in 1966 we had to deal with much the same situation. By late 1967 it became a problem in my unit. We focused on the mission of the unit not rehabilitating the EM. The days of the Army being the dumping ground for citizens with problems should be over.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 6 at 2016 10:45 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 06 Sep 2016 10:45:44 -0400

The military should not be a social experiment where everyone gets to play. I have nothing personal against those with learning disabilities and social disorders, they just do not belong in a forum where their issues can get others killed or injured. Get him help and separated if need be.

SFC A.
"RLTW"

Response by GySgt Charles O'Connell made Sep 6 at 2016 10:48 AM

GySgt Charles O'Connell — Tue, 06 Sep 2016 10:48:56 -0400

I have to ask this before I can form an answer to the original question, "how does someone get automatically promoted?"

Response by SGT Jody Beach made Sep 6 at 2016 10:49 AM

SGT Jody Beach — Tue, 06 Sep 2016 10:49:12 -0400

Sounds like politics at play. Should not be in the service. Simple question.... Would you trust this soldier with your life?

Response by PO2 Steven Hardy made Sep 6 at 2016 10:54 AM

PO2 Steven Hardy — Tue, 06 Sep 2016 10:54:04 -0400

This isn't a problem in the Coast Guard. Such a person would have never made it past the recruiter. I can't even believe such a situation exist. Exactly what are the standards for enlistment and advancement in the Army/Army Reserve?

Response by SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 6 at 2016 11:05 AM

SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 06 Sep 2016 11:05:41 -0400

It depends on how close to retirement you are. If you're in your last enlistment, you should do what should have been done: recommend up the chain of command that the soldier be Separated for the Good of the Service.

Response by SSG John Karr made Sep 6 at 2016 11:07 AM

SSG John Karr — Tue, 06 Sep 2016 11:07:07 -0400

Funny thing... we had just such an individual once and his disabilities were severe. We first noticed that something was wrong when he would repeatedly get lost in the building and one day we got a phone call from another unit to come pick up our soldier because he got lost on the base. He would often be seen playing with toy planes in the shower. He was a Stinger gunner and could not identify a single plane as "friend or foe". Finally his section Sargent had had enough and took it to the CO and demanded he get a psyche-eval.

Turned out our soldier was mentally retarded. That of course launched a number of investigations as to how did he get into the Army in the first place and how did he get through Basic and AIT. Seems his mother took him to a recruiter and begged him to get her son in the Army. The recruiter had to forge his ASVAB scores... and for that he got a year in Leavenworth with a DD. Next came his Drill Sargent who did not want to look bad at having a shitbird in his platoon... he got off light with just a DD. Finally came his AIT instructor who figured if he made it through Basic he could make it through AIT. Apparently he had some extenuating circumstances and got off with only an FG Article 15.

It became my job to escort this guy to Rein Main AB and see that he got on the plane. Between my driver and myself one of us had to stay up all night and make sure our charge did not wander off. The next day we took him to Customs where the MP told him to empty his duffel bag which had none of his issue uniforms, etc. but was full of toys. The look on the MP's face was incredulous so I showed him a copy of his orders and explained the reason the soldier was headed home. With that I grabbed one of the other soldiers on his flight and asked him to make sure that he made it to the other end of his trip to the States. I have no idea what happened to him on the other end, I hope he made it home.

Response by MCPO Tom Miller made Sep 6 at 2016 11:12 AM

MCPO Tom Miller — Tue, 06 Sep 2016 11:12:17 -0400

To me this is a strong indication that others within his unit aren't qualified! What has made our Armed Forces so advanced is standard of competency based on both leadership and competency! Peter Principles was never condoned or acceptable. Then you ask, who qualified this person for enlistment? Was he enlisted under protest 100,000 with a very low score and socially advanced? With all this PC indoctrination and mixes of different genders that require different approaches to standards, it's a foreseeable big problem ahead! You do what you need to do and that's demote him to provide a facsimile of professional leadership! When I first joined the Navy in the mid 50's we had a few sailors without a formal level of education and were good at lower level pay grades and in fact exceeded expectations and performed at that level very well. However, in today's Naval service they may not do as well due to up and out requirements. Standards should never be lowered but increased!

Response by SSG Bill Parris made Sep 6 at 2016 12:16 PM

SSG Bill Parris — Tue, 06 Sep 2016 12:16:29 -0400

The honest answer is this happens every month, and there ant nothing you can do about it. I don't care about the flack I get for saying this because I'm out so cuss me out or threaten me and see if I care. The promotion system was broke a long time ago, and standards go up and down with every conflict. Don't give the kid any soldiers and assign him to a full time additional duty. You have options, talk to JAG about it. Back in my day pre 2015 soldiers had to pass a TABE that measures our ability to learn. If you fail it prevented attendance to WLC or ALC. The down side is the army would give you the boot for either failure to adapt or failure to seek self-improvement. The discharge was gen. Under honorable conditions.

Response by SSG Keith Cashion made Sep 6 at 2016 12:19 PM

SSG Keith Cashion — Tue, 06 Sep 2016 12:19:27 -0400

I agree with the Education center. But go with basic apptitude and then try the ASVAB. Additionally, check with ACS and family services. May not make sense, but they have the personnel that can ID what the issue is. Not sure I read it in your post, but you also have to have the Soldiers buy on anything you do.

Set him and yourself up for sucess. Maybe a challenge, in the long run, you yourself will learn from this.

Response by PO1 Robert Johnson made Sep 6 at 2016 12:47 PM

PO1 Robert Johnson — Tue, 06 Sep 2016 12:47:42 -0400

Learning disabilities come in many different forms and only trained professionals can make that determination. Having said that, you have the responsibility to evaluate the SM's performance, ability as it applies to the mission of your unit, document your findings and then present those findings to your COC. Include specific instances where and when the SM's behaviors or lack thereof has had an impact on the performance of other members of the unit or on the unit itself. A good leader must evaluate all aspects of his/her unit's effectiveness in carrying out it's mission and take or recommend corrective measures.

Response by MSG Monique Martin made Sep 6 at 2016 2:02 PM

MSG Monique Martin — Tue, 06 Sep 2016 14:02:40 -0400

I think we all need to not diagnose through 3rd party experience. Go with the things you know to be true. He made it through Basic Training - no small feat for someone with a learning disability or socialization issues.
I have been out for a few years, but I have never heard of "automatic promotion" to E5. How does that work?
The issues you list are the same issues that seem to pop up for TBI, PTS, Depression, etc. don't just focus on the fact he had a learning disability as a child. Although he may have a disability, it doesn't mean it is the cause of the symptoms you list.
Set the standard for him, give him the tools and talk with him.

Response by MSG Tim Cates made Sep 6 at 2016 2:11 PM

MSG Tim Cates — Tue, 06 Sep 2016 14:11:57 -0400

I had a similar situation with not just one but two soldiers who happened to be brothers. Both of them were transferred to my unit as specialists up for Sgt. They had the same sort of difficulty as you describe in stereo. So after having a conversation with them it became clearer to me that as Sgts. they would never be able to lead a squad or platoon. However, with that said I also became aware of their "intelligence". Turns out that they scored in the 130 range on ASVAB which as anyone knows is well above average. They had me beat by about 5 points so with that I had to give them credit and determine their strong suit which was attention to detail and trouble shooting. The on thing we needed most and did not have was someone to oversee the calibration and maintenance of our sensitive NBC equipment. This activity placed them inside of a secure area with no distractions or need to interact with the company with exception of the routine events. Both of them served out their enlistments completing college and going on to work as civilians in a similar set of circumstances. Last bit of feedback on them indicated they were doing well and thanked me for the opportunity to find their niche in life.

Response by SSG Brian MacBain made Sep 6 at 2016 2:37 PM

SSG Brian MacBain — Tue, 06 Sep 2016 14:37:47 -0400

First if I was his SL, I would go to my COC for guidance and bring up on his test scores for the ASVAB if he passed or not. Unless it has changed (been retired 10yrs and a former recruiter) min score on ASVAB is 31 if you have a HS Diploma and 50 for GED (if that door is open). If this soldier scores were not above 31, I would recommend to the COC ask USAREC (correct?) to investigate the recruiting company and the MEPS on how this person got through. If no fault falls on that soldier, I would suggest that soldier is not put in a leadership position and place him where he cannot do any harm and let him ETS with honorable discharge. His heart is in the right place to serve his country, but let not screw him with a chapter and a general discharge. As for his current leadership, need to learn what his disability is and adapt to it and be patient as much as possible.

Response by SFC Larry Jones made Sep 6 at 2016 3:01 PM

SFC Larry Jones — Tue, 06 Sep 2016 15:01:10 -0400

As a former recruiter/station commander, my first question is how did this guy get into uniform in the first place? His situation warrants an investigation all the way back to his recruiter. It sounds to me like someone had a "ringer" take the test (ASVAB) for him. There are checks and balances in place to prevent it, but, unfortunately, some occasionally slip through. If caught soon enough, Recruiting Command does its own internal investigation. When corruption is proven, those involved are unceremoniously removed from their jobs. Disciplinary action may or may not follow. Most often, they are returned to their original MOS, but that black mark is on their record permanently. No one contract is worth sending my Army an unfit, in any way, soldier.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 6 at 2016 3:18 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 06 Sep 2016 15:18:59 -0400

Attempt to get the NCO the help they need. If it can't be treated, initiate bar to reenlist. If NCO is more than a year out from ETS, initiate chapter.

Response by 1SG Jarius Hansen made Sep 6 at 2016 4:37 PM

1SG Jarius Hansen — Tue, 06 Sep 2016 16:37:35 -0400

You've got some pretty good responses here, SSG Goeller, but let me toss in two cents worth.
In your situation as described, the first thing I think you need to do is get the soldier to medical support to be evaluated for the "diagnosed" and "untreated" learning disability. The individual may well have some issues that are treatable, and if not, that needs to be determined too.
If the soldier's condition can be treated, and therefore his ability to function improved, then you may gain an asset. Depending on your unit's function (CA/CS/CSS) he may be able to progress to a point, but be unqualified for certain CMF/MOS. And if the situation cannot be treated or improved, medical evaluation is necessary to determine whether or not Medical Retirement or other separation from the Army is necessary and in the best interests for the soldier and the good of the Army.
Additionally, and first, as his first line supervisor, your observations, attempts to correct, and written counseling is a MUST. You have obviously observed long enough to be in a quandry, therefore you should be able to provide the chain-of-command with grounds to follow through with the above.
And if it turns out the soldier is just lazy, doesn't want to work, etc, you will determine that too. But give him the support necessary to get him evaluated, treated, or other disposition to be determined by the appropriate Command/Medical level.
That's what I would do, or recommend to my NCOs and Commander.

Response by SFC Dennis Yancy made Sep 6 at 2016 5:02 PM

SFC Dennis Yancy — Tue, 06 Sep 2016 17:02:11 -0400

Always use soldiers where they can best succeed. But sometimes you must let them go. I had an SP4 that I told would never make e-5 and just make plans for civilian life. More diplomatic that this but was best for soldier and Army.

Response by PO1 Robert Closson made Sep 6 at 2016 7:25 PM

PO1 Robert Closson — Tue, 06 Sep 2016 19:25:30 -0400

First thing first what is his disability? Second how on earth did he get promoted automatically to the pay grade of E-5? From what you wrote three things come to mind 1. He has dyslexia 2. He is a functional illiterate 3. ADHD witch would help me understand His poor socialization skills. You really need to go up the chain of command and get this guy the proper help. When I was faced with a sailor such as this I would use the rinse and repeat method and close supervision.

Response by PO1 Kevin Dougherty made Sep 7 at 2016 12:17 AM

PO1 Kevin Dougherty — Wed, 07 Sep 2016 00:17:00 -0400

Looks like you have gotten a lot of good advise, at this point, what happened and why is probably less important than acting in the best interests of your subordinate and your unit. I concur that you should have him professionally evaluated ASAP, and then with input from them and if you have access, an educator determine if a development program can be designed to allow them to become a competent solder and develop professionally.

It may be that it is everyone's best interests to discharge them. It may be that it's just that a different approach is needed. It may just be a matter of a professional working with them to teach them how to better cope with their disability to turn it into an ability. I have a cousin who was diagnosed with dyslexia early in his life, today he is is a forensic CPA. I have worked with sailors and seen them go from trouble child to 4.0 sailors. Not that I am any sort of motivational genius, I just took time to let them know I cared, made my expectations clear and found a way to motivate them.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 7 at 2016 1:16 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 07 Sep 2016 01:16:06 -0400

S
The soldier finishes the enlistment and is not retained

Response by CPO Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 7 at 2016 2:43 AM

CPO Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 07 Sep 2016 02:43:45 -0400

Admin separate the member if necessary.

Response by 1SG Patrick Sims made Sep 7 at 2016 2:59 AM

1SG Patrick Sims — Wed, 07 Sep 2016 02:59:47 -0400

You may have to make a tough decision on this guy. Your primary responsibility is to your men, your commander, and the Army. If this guy has a wife and kids it may be a tough decision on your part, because you may be stripping him of the only decent livelihood he's ever going to have. I don't like to give up on people like his prior SL did. I would suggest you work with him. Does he know about his learning disability, and what is at stake if he fails? As obvious as it may be to you, it may not be to him. Sit him down and let him know where he stands in all of this. Let him decide if he wants to improve or be the recipient of bad NCOER's -----if the Army still uses them. Incident, your 1st Sergeant may be of some help to you---I counsel you not give up on anyone, regardless of what stories come with him----The final decision is yours---think it through before you do it.

Response by SGT Robert George made Sep 7 at 2016 4:16 AM

SGT Robert George — Wed, 07 Sep 2016 04:16:18 -0400

These are all good comments but , this soldier has been with you 7 yrs. and Im not saying let him slide but as a leader yourself should use some gut instinct with him because discharging the person might be devastating ..IMO..

Response by SSgt Javier Abrego made Sep 7 at 2016 4:52 AM

SSgt Javier Abrego — Wed, 07 Sep 2016 04:52:30 -0400

I may be a cold hearted asshole but your learning issue should not be my problem. If you can't get your shit together and be effective then your no use to the unit. I'm getting tired of others yielding / accommodating people who can't make the grade. If you can't read or write or see the right color or whatever your issue is...figure out a system. Because if you're just now( at this level) figuring it out, your wasting other people's time. If you're not part of the solution you're part of the problem. My 2 cents

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 7 at 2016 6:08 AM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 07 Sep 2016 06:08:17 -0400

First it is not your job to figure out his disability he has lived with it his whole life sm should be able to tell you how e learns or how he interacts or anything of that nature let alone it is not your responsibility to make the sm succeed it is his career provide resource but you are not their parent nor are you there adult. My main problem with everyone posting is saying you need to figure out how he learns or how to make it to where they can be fixed you aren't the reason they are failing your job is to lead in the most effective way. Said person needs to to after 7 years service up fix problem or get cut loose. It is a common trend we blame leadership when people fail when in fact it is a person issue for the person to know how they function especially as a sgt

Response by SGT Nicholas Nelson made Sep 7 at 2016 9:05 AM

SGT Nicholas Nelson — Wed, 07 Sep 2016 09:05:38 -0400

I've been out for a while. But the same thing is found in the workforce in larger companies. I'm not trying to be cruel, but there are many individuals who are protected thus creating a military full of intellectual deficiencies. How are we suppose to have the best military when we get guys and gals who can't read well? Obviously, he needs to see a psychologist with a speciality in Educational Disabilities. He needs a diagnosis and therapy. Even then, he will probably still be behind his peers. This also begs the question, is the Army in the trade of helping people with learning disabilities? My advice, document everything so that there is a paper trail while also encouraging him to schedule an appointment with a physician so that he can explain to a medical professional who can then refer him.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 7 at 2016 11:54 AM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 07 Sep 2016 11:54:59 -0400

Is there anything they are good at like computers or stuff like that? Maybe they need a different job that they can perform better at.

Response by SFC Olivero Rodriguez made Sep 7 at 2016 1:09 PM

SFC Olivero Rodriguez — Wed, 07 Sep 2016 13:09:46 -0400

Back in 1982 I went to PNOC at Ft. Riley, KS. I came to counsel a soldier that was caring a paper with him with his home address his phone number and his wife name, he told me that he had short term memory and that he was diagnose with having one side of his brains with this problem, I asked a cadre member to help me out, since this was suppose to be a make believe. The Commandant call this soldier SGM and his PSG as well as his team leaders, from an infantry unit and asked them about this problem, they said, they wanted to help him. The Commandant got the post SGM involved, and the soldier was send to a Hospital for evaluation. My cadre member told me, that he felt sorry for the soldier, but he could not be and infantry soldier, having this types of mental problems, I agreed at that time. Just one of those cases that you have to think, and really take charge, immediately.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 7 at 2016 3:36 PM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 07 Sep 2016 15:36:30 -0400

Take them under them under my wing teach them everything I know even if it over and over again

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 8 at 2016 12:31 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 08 Sep 2016 12:31:39 -0400

We are at a generation where we initiate chapters or discharges, (1) Show the guy some real leadership and stress that it is mandate that he overcome his challenges. The best legitimate leaders were the one that overcame challenges and their strength/posture represented it(2) He should already understand that as an NCO he is an example and therefore shows others how to present himself and overcome challenges in a smooth manner . .

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 8 at 2016 1:10 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 08 Sep 2016 13:10:12 -0400

Send the Soldier to PCM for referral to Behavioral Health for diagnosis and treatment plan. As an Army COTA, I would suggest a referral to Occupational Therapy for possible treatment options.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 8 at 2016 1:10 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 08 Sep 2016 13:10:22 -0400

Send the Soldier to PCM for referral to Behavioral Health for diagnosis and treatment plan. As an Army COTA, I would suggest a referral to Occupational Therapy for possible treatment options.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 21 at 2016 2:04 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 21 Oct 2016 14:04:34 -0400

Chances are he enlisted fraudulently. They get told no by one recruiter and will bounce around branches and stations until they know what not to say. Get him to a doctor and hopefully they medboard. Working around it is not always an option, check out AR 40-501. It ultimately will be up to what is diagnosed.

Response by TSgt Jennifer Disch made Oct 21 at 2016 2:31 PM

TSgt Jennifer Disch — Fri, 21 Oct 2016 14:31:41 -0400

This is a difficult one. I feel for the soldier but the needs of the Service may outweigh the SMS future.

Response by TSgt Jennifer Disch made Oct 21 at 2016 2:42 PM

TSgt Jennifer Disch — Fri, 21 Oct 2016 14:42:16 -0400

7 years active Reserve or in the reserves for 7 years? Morally speaking, tossing him out is unfair. Practically speaking, can the Service afford to keep him? There has to be a middle ground somewhere.

Response by SGT Willie Brady made Oct 21 at 2016 3:58 PM

SGT Willie Brady — Fri, 21 Oct 2016 15:58:47 -0400

How long has the sergeant been in? Is the soldier close to retirement?

Response by SGT Mathew Husen made Oct 21 at 2016 4:12 PM

SGT Mathew Husen — Fri, 21 Oct 2016 16:12:51 -0400

This is why people get out; too many people who have no business being in a leadership position being promoted just to lead by bad example and set their soldiers up for failure.

Response by LTC Jason Mackay made Oct 22 at 2016 2:35 PM

LTC Jason Mackay — Sat, 22 Oct 2016 14:35:37 -0400

This is tough for a couple of reasons. Helping is relative. If you help him and provide a safety net for him, he will succeed in your charge, but what happens when you leave or he PCS'es? If he is already an E5, next he will be competitive for E6. Does he have that potential? Will he be set up for failure at the next professional development school (lost track between ALC and SLC etc)? Are you helping if you have propelled him to a point where he now has to do what you are doing? I trust you to sort that out as you see the guy every day. You may need help in assessing his abilities with someone with that expertise and training from the medical realm.

You are doing right by the guy by not writing him off. In the short term, he is your soldier and you must do what every good leader does: figure out where he is strong and accentuate those strengths through assignments, duties and missions. Figure out where he is weak, and mitigate those weaknesses through training, education, individual development ( know that he owns a piece of this too) , and building experiences where he may have to fail to learn.

All bets are off If you feel his skills, attributes, and shortcomings are going to get him or other soldiers killed or injured. Has he ever been evaluated by a professional and given some course of treatment?

Response by SGT Allison Churchill made Oct 27 at 2016 12:41 PM

SGT Allison Churchill — Thu, 27 Oct 2016 12:41:59 -0400

It seems like a lot of people here don't quite understand what learning disabilities are. Here's some accurate information: https://ldaamerica.org.

Learning Disabilities Association of America – Learning Disabilities Association of America

Learning Disabilities Association of America

Response by SGT Jody Beach made Nov 3 at 2016 1:47 PM

SGT Jody Beach — Thu, 03 Nov 2016 13:47:00 -0400

WHAT IN THE HELL IS GOING ON IN THE MILITARY!!!!!!!!
Automatic promotion???? Learning Disability ?????

Rank should be earned, not automatically given...... As far as a learning disability the military nor the government is your babies daddy...... What happened to Lead, Follow, or get the fuck outta the way .... And my wording should not be found offensive because I cant help who I am...... I was born that way. If you get what I mean........

Response by SGT Jody Beach made Nov 3 at 2016 6:43 PM

SGT Jody Beach — Thu, 03 Nov 2016 18:43:13 -0400

Here is another way to put it.... Leaving out the military…

There is a mechanic with a learning disability who works at one of those big box repair shops. His manager "feels bad" for him, they continually train him and have to watch over every little thing this mechanic does.

One day the mechanic’s managers are in a meeting leaving the mechanic unsupervised. The service writer sells you a huge brake job requiring your calipers be replaced. During this it was found you also need a ball joint. The mechanic with the learning disability does all the work as a mechanic should except this time he was unsupervised. No one double checked the work or "looked over his shoulder". Keep in mind, all your wheels and front steering controls were off your vehicle......

You, your spouse and your three kids are all in the car when you pick it up. You are all traveling on a busy highway going the average speed of 70 mph. There are several semi-trucks just feet from you also moving at 70 mph and weighing 30 tons. When out of nowhere you have to hit your brakes. THEY FAIL! The caliper was not properly installed and came off. This action wedged it between the spindle and rim. Because the rim was over tightened the studs snapped and the wheel was slung into oncoming traffic going through the windshield of a young couple killing them and leaving their baby an orphan. Your left front missing the wheel catches a raised area of concrete. This catapults your vehicle end over end. The semi behind you can’t get stopped. Rather than flattening your vehicle he steers to the right and goes over a cliff. His truck plummets over a thousand feet to the bottom. There is nothing left of the truck. It disintegrated on impact. No worries – You are fine Your air bags deployed and kept you from harm's way ...

So you decide ....

Response by SGT David Petree made Nov 18 at 2016 7:35 PM

SGT David Petree — Fri, 18 Nov 2016 19:35:40 -0500

we got this Pfc. in at CSC 2/87 Mech. Inf. he was a radio repairman. really good with radios. BUT no walking around sense. we all thought he was NUT`S. turns out his IQ went off the scale. what it required was the NCO`s had to work with him every day. starting with the basic's, of ARMY life in Germany. he was coming along when I rotated out.
there was a lot of Big words about your Sgt. with his or her learning problem . 1st shoot how ever promoted him or her, & then passed the person on to you. because they did NOT do there job. 2nd Now it`s your turn to do your job as an NCO to bring this Sgt. up to standards. Or take a strip !!!

Response by SGT David Petree made Jul 24 at 2017 12:56 PM

SGT David Petree — Mon, 24 Jul 2017 12:56:30 -0400

Auto promote I through went out years ago. But it seems it is still out there.
One must train all that are under you. Even the ones that don't get it. The one`s that finely get it will be your best asset in the long run. You will know there strong points but you must work on the low parts to. You also must look for help from other sources , if your are to keep this person.

Response by SFC Mike Manley made Apr 18 at 2018 4:37 PM

SFC Mike Manley — Wed, 18 Apr 2018 16:37:05 -0400

Is the SM making an honest assessment of their performance or do you think that maybe the SM is "Working the System"? I have to say that there is only so much you can do as a leader before the SM needs to step up and recognize (and accept) that they have an issue and be willing to take steps to seek assistance. Remember, as stated before, you do have other subordinates which require your leadership and for one SM to become an "Anchor" will drain you of all your time/resources possibly reflecting negatively on you. YES, immediately send the SM to get a medical review in order to identify the issue/disorder. This will help you by having the service recognize/record the issue on their permanent record, forming the basis from which you as the leader will start to work from. Also will give your leadership the knowledge of what you are working with . Which brings to question, "What does your higher say with regard to the SM's actions?" Are they giving YOU any type of guidance or leaving up to you for action?? Without the full understanding of this Soldier's reasoning, actions, thought process....there is only so much knowledge/experience any of the leaders on this page can extend. Best of luck and I sincerely hope there is a positive outcome however, we all know there are those who never should have been accepted into military service but managed to get in due to the numbers game. If this is the case and the SM is obviously not going to work out, I say, extend a bit of compassion and get them as much help/assistance as you can. Then start the paper trail to process them out as "Unfit". This action happens everyday in the service because not everyone is cut out to continue serving for a number of reasons. Remember, you're not doing anyone any favor by continuing to hold on to that "Anchor" possibly taking them into a combat theater.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Apr 18 at 2018 11:05 PM

SGM Bill Frazer — Wed, 18 Apr 2018 23:05:23 -0400

Get him tested ASAP, see what they say you can do to fix it or at least make him more functional . See what i can grab onto quickly and what takes longer- have lots of patience.