I have been denied permissive TDY. Whats next?

2016-06-03T14:30:57-04:00

I'll try and keep it short and simple.

PCS'd from Benning to Wainwright. My losing unit was disbanded. I had Permissive TDY worked out in my leave packet before I left Benning. Reported to the wainwright MPD and the post housing 10 days prior to my report date. They said they cannot grant me PTDY, it had to come from my gaining unit. So I signed in and started in processing. The day I got to my new unit I explained my housing situation and requested PTDY. 1SG signed off on it and said he'll take it to the commander. The commander said no. At this time I was utilizing TLA living in temp lodging with my pregnant wife, son and dog. I fought hard but still lost after a day of discussion. So I proceeded to find a home to buy. Found a home, put the offer in, blah blah now the closing date is June 13th, house hold goods on the 14th, and 2nd child is due on July 1st. My platoon leader talked me into accepting that I would be denied that PTDY, with a promise that he would RESUBMIT the PTDY request when we were getting ready to move in, so I could "set up the home" especially since my wife will be due less than 3 weeks later. It's crucial the home is set up for that second child.

If the C.O denies it again, I'm talking to our SCO about it. I know this will leave a bad taste in the leaderships mouths about me, but I need to take care of my family. Any advice out there?? Thank you. - SPC V

Response by SPC David S. made Jun 3 at 2016 2:58 PM

2016-06-03T14:58:04-04:00

Break your leg? Take a look at DoD 1400.25-M, Section SC630.7.4.3. Permanent Change of Duty Station (PCS). Not so sure about going over his head on day 1.

http://www.dtic.mil/whs/directives/corres/pdf/1400.25-V630.pdf.

http://www.dtic.mil/whs/directives/corres/html/CPM_table2.html

DoD Issuances Website: 404 Error Page

Response by 1SG Patrick Burke made Jun 3 at 2016 3:02 PM

2016-06-03T15:02:10-04:00

It takes an 0-5 Commander to authorize PTDY. You can receive it from the losing or gaining unit. The easiest is from the loosing unit, since they know you. Not sure why or under what authority Housing has to deny it. In addition, your CDR (CPT) is not the approving authority. In addition, if your 1SG has not rectified this situation for you, he is failing you!

Response by LTC Paul Labrador made Jun 3 at 2016 3:09 PM

2016-06-03T15:09:06-04:00

If your losing command didn't authorize PTDY for you, it is a bit of a crap shoot whether gaining unit will. However, usually gaining units don't have heartburn about it unless your request sounds fishy (ie unaccompanied E-4 asking for PTDY for househunting, when all unaccompanied E-4s live in the barracks). Not sure why your CO isn't forwarding this up, unless their hands are tied and you have to complete inprocessing first.

Response by Capt Daniel Goodman made Jun 3 at 2016 3:09 PM

2016-06-03T15:09:23-04:00

Purely as a suggestion, though I don't know if this might be at all Dee!Ed acceptable, migjt you not also posbly ask any of the chaplains on your installation for their help in approaching those over you? I just thought the idea worth mentioning, if nothing else , purely as an idea, just in case it 'might" possibly have some value, that's all I'm saying, you know? I'd be eager for your thoughts and or reactions, whenever convenient, no rush, of course, many thanks.

Response by Capt Daniel Goodman made Jun 3 at 2016 3:12 PM

2016-06-03T15:12:41-04:00

Sorry for typos, I'd meant deemed sccepsble of course.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 3 at 2016 3:22 PM

2016-06-03T15:22:12-04:00

5-1 Cav...doesn't surprise me

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 3 at 2016 5:10 PM

2016-06-03T17:10:32-04:00

A very common mistake made is that PTDY is awarded by the Command that you are leaving not the Command you are going to. PCSing with leave and having PTDY included means you will take the PTDY at the LOSING station to wrap up household issues. You report to the new new unit on or before the end of the total leave, and you are not charged the PTDY days.
You do not instantly get PTDY at the new station.
Many posts like Ft Drum, require you to be signed in to the post before you can take PTDY locally. Also, it must be approved by your NEW gaining unit.
PTDY is PERMISSIVE. Period. It is unit Commanders decision if it should be given. Generally it is, as long as you are house hunting, or setting up a house. There are any number of reasons why a Commander can say no, and they are all legit.
Lastly, I would suspect that your Commander is saying no because you have already taken PTDY. (the first 10 days of your leave is PTDY when the losing unit awards it) Since you have taken the PTDY, regardless of the fact you signed in 10 days early, the Commander is probably under the opinion he can not award PTDY twice.

I suggest you read the Leaves and Passes Regulation and get familiar with the verbiage. Ask to talk to the Commander or 1SG and explain that you would gladly resubmit your old leave form to reflect all chargeable leave, and submit a new one reflecting PTDY at your current station.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 3 at 2016 5:27 PM

2016-06-03T17:27:44-04:00

Some more info, housing instructed me to sign in and go get PTDY from my gaining unit. Also, I was approved by an O5 prior to leaving.

Response by Capt Daniel Goodman made Jun 3 at 2016 7:30 PM

2016-06-03T19:30:12-04:00

Sorry once again, I'd meant that I didn't know if seeking help from chaplain about such things might be deemed acceptable, or even suitable, in such cases, however, I've read more of the other answers here, so I realize my suggestion might of course not be suitable in this instance , it was quite honestly just an off the cuff thought on my part, I just didn't know ifmsuch an idea might be a help at all, that was, all, honest.

Response by MSG Pat Colby made Jun 3 at 2016 11:23 PM

2016-06-03T23:23:25-04:00

I read through all the responses and have another viewpoint. It's my understanding that PTDY is non-chargeable leave granted to the SM not only for house-hunting but receiving and unpacking household goods. Since Alaska is about as far away as a PCS can take you, do you think the Command is "sand-bagging" a few days for you for when your Stuff arrives? Are you and your family currently set-up in Army Temp housing?

When I got Stationed in Hawaii, I was lucky enough to be able to take more than my 10 days due to all the logistics involved in an "overseas" move. No it wasn't a straight 10+ days. I signed in the day after arriving on Island. We had our Temp Housing the day we arrived. There is no way in hell anyone can do everything in 10 straight days. House-hunting is tough but wouldn't you want to talk to some people to know where the "unsavory" areas are at? There's LOTSA things to do in a move of your nature. Trust me, I KNOW. Half a day here and there eats up a lot of time. You probably shipped a POV. There's a day by itself getting the thing. When your household goods arrive, wouldn't you like a few days to unpack and set up the place?

I'm kinda thinking the Command is actually looking out for you in the long run. That is as long as they let you book out to take care of stuff as events natural progress. They've done this shit before, have you?

Edited ~ I re-read your situation and the dates clicked. I would suggest that you identify those Hard-Times to your 1SG. You didn't specify the PTDY dates you requested in your original post. The only thing non-negotiable in your situation is communication. Make sure your FLL and NCO channel up to the 1SG knows what's shaking. NCO's are not normally heartless bastards. We've all been there before and know your plight.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 5 at 2016 6:06 PM

2016-06-05T18:06:35-04:00

SPC Vargas, your best bet is to document everything in a timeline and get your paperwork ready.

In case you haven't read the regulation, here is the snippet that applies to PTDY and your situation.
if you are following the regulation, could you let us know which step you stopped at, or has not yet been complete?
Also, take note of Step 13, do you have in your possession a completed DD Form 1747?
if you do not, then on DA Form 31, block 17, is there a statement from the commander providing verification of housing status at the gaining command?

AR 600-8-10 Leaves and Passes
Section XVI Permissive Temporary Duty
5-32 Permissive temporary duty authorization
PTDY may be authorized as follows:
f. For house hunting (absence to hunt for a house or other dwelling incident to a PCS move CONUS or OCONUS).
The following conditions apply:
(3) Soldier has unaccompanied or nonconcurrent travel entitlement to settle his or her Family at designated areas.
(4) Government housing or quarters must not be immediately available, or if available, not required to be occupied.
(5) When the gaining command is in CONUS, Hawaii or Alaska, Soldiers are not required to obtain from the on-post housing office the status of housing availability for the purpose of permissive TDY.
(6) For overseas assignments, the type of quarters available, if applicable, will be determined by Soldier’s concurrent or deferred travel code (see AR 55–46). A statement from the commander authorizing the PTDY is required on the DA Form 31 providing the source of verification of the housing status at the gaining command.
(7) Soldier is authorized to take PTDY for house hunting after written notification of PCS orders, but prior to departure on PCS.
(8) Soldier is authorized to take PTDY for house hunting en route together with leave and travel.
(9) Soldier is authorized to take PTDY for house hunting after arriving at gaining station.
(11) Soldier must report to the gaining on-post housing office prior to starting house hunting. Failure to do so will result in Soldier being charged leave for entire period. Soldier who has unaccompanied or nonconcurrent travel entitlement OCONUS and is authorized house hunting CONUS must report to the on-post housing office at the
CONUS installation where PTDY is authorized for house hunting prior to starting house hunting. Failure to do so results in Soldier being charged leave for the entire period.

5–34. Steps to use permissive temporary duty
The steps to use PTDY are shown in table 5–16.
Table 5–16
Step: 1
Who: Soldier
Action: Request PTDY on DA Form 31 (chap 12). Complete blocks 2 through 11, as ap-
plicable

Step: 2
Who: Soldier
Action: On DA Form 31, block 17, name the event or activity, justification for attendance,
and proposed itinerary from departure until return.

Step: 3
Who: Soldier
Action: Add to the DA Form 31, block 17, this statement: “I understand that this absence
is not directed by any official of the U.S. Government. I further understand that I
cannot conduct public business under this authorization. Accordingly, I will not be
entitled to reimbursement for travel, per diem, or any other expenses. I under-
stand that I have the right to cancel it at any time and return to my regular place
of duty”.

Step: 4
Who: Unit
Action: Assist Soldier with steps 1 through 3.

Step: 5
Who: CDR
Action: Approve requests for PTDY for up to 10 days or submit requests to GCM authori-
ty, CG, AHRC, or CG, USACFSC, as appropriate, for approval. Disapprove re-
quests that do not meet authorized uses for PTDY.

Step: 6
Who: Unit
Action: Follow applicable leave processing procedures in paragraphs 12–1 and 12–3 and
forward to BNS1 for further processing.

Step: 7
Who: BNS1
Action: Follow applicable leave processing procedures in paragraphs 12–1 and 12–5.

Step: 8
Who: Soldier
Action: If PTDY is for house hunting, complete DA Form 4787–R (Reassignment Proces-
sing) or DD Form 1746 (Application for and Assignment to Housing) when PTDY
is requested for house hunting. (See note 1.)

Step: 9
Who: Unit
Action: Forward DA Form 4787–R or DD Form 1746 to BNS1.

Step: 10
Who: BNS1
Action: Receive form and forward to the gaining installation Family housing office. (They
will send a DD Form 1747 (Status of Housing Availability) within 3 working days.)

Step: 11
Who: BNS1
Action: Upon receipt of DD Form 1747, forward to unit.

Step: 12
Who: CDR
Action: Receive DD Form 1747 and approve or disapprove PTDY for house hunting
based on information contained in form.

Step: 13
Who: Unit
Action: Advise Soldier to report to the gaining on-post housing office with DA Form 31 ap-
proving PTDY and DD Form 1747 and that failure to do so will result in the Soldier
being charged leave. If DD Form 1747 is not available, annotate DA Form 31,
block 17, with statement from commander providing verification of housing status
at the gaining command. (See notes 2 and 3.)

Step: 14
Who: Unit
Action: Follow applicable leave processing procedures in paragraphs 12–1 and 12–3 and
forward to BNS1.

Step: 15
Who: BNS1
Action: Follow applicable leave processing procedures in paragraphs 12–1 and 12–5.

Notes:
1 A Form 4787 may be obtained from local Military Personnel Division (MPD) or PSC.
2 The DA Form 31 should contain a statement providing the commander’s source of verification of housing status at the gaining command.
3 The gaining Housing Referral Office stamps and dates DA Form 31 to verify housing processing and permissive TDY status.

Also, I have known soldiers that purchased a home when I was at Fort Huachuca, AZ and they were on PCS orders within 2 years.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 9 at 2016 10:04 PM

2016-06-09T22:04:24-04:00

Any update on this brother?