How can I re-enlist after being discharged in AIT under a Chapter 14-12b with General Under Honorable conditions, RE-3?

Gregory Gulick — Wed, 10 Nov 2021 22:01:46 -0500

I was discharged with an RE code of 3. I had 2 field grade AR15s while there, and one company grade. One was for a gatorade bottle in my room, one was for having a cigarrette, and one was for consuming alcohol. I never wanted to get out, i loved the army with my heart and soul. I had a great PT score, volenteered for every event we had for 18 weeks. I did great in basic and was student leadership in both BCT and AIT. I had great leadership in BCT and excelled, and horrible, like absolutely deplorable leadership in AIT. I believe my punishments were severely over exagerated given the severity of the offenses. I was advised by my CO not to do anything to fight it. I was notified of my discharge the day before graduation after 18 weeks there. I want to come back in more than anything but am unsure how to go about it. After numerous requests for advice from my NCOs and CO I still havent the slightest clue what to do next. If anyone has any advice I really would appreciate it. I feel like I was a great soldier and made a couple impulsive decisions that i now regret immensely. I really want to re enlist, even in another branch. I signed an open contract and left within a week of being at the recruiter because I really wanted to be in the military. I just got out around 2 months ago. Is it not possible to re enlist? My leadership told me theres no hope to ever come back but I really dont wanna give up on it. I read a lot of different scenarios on here of similar discharges and theyre all for serious offenses such as illegal substances and FTR and just being a generally bad soldier all around. I had no help from leadership in AIT which made the process very difficult. If there is anything I can do please let me know. If someone has an answer, but needs more details Id be more than happy to provide any records from my discharge packet.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 10 at 2021 10:05 PM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 10 Nov 2021 22:05:01 -0500

You'll have to wait at least six months, and you would need a waiver approved.
Some expectation management: when the forces draw down, the need for waivers to get people in goes down.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 10 at 2021 10:38 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 10 Nov 2021 22:38:51 -0500

You're gonna have to wait 4 more months. You're also gonna need waivers. You're also gonna need to find a recruiter that will be willing to work with this kind of uphill battle considering the draw down that is about to happen. Is getting back in possible? Sure. Likely? Yea, the odds are not in your favor. The only thing that anyone needs to know is what your RE Code is, which you have told us, and what your separation code is. Everything else in between is just white noise.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 11 at 2021 8:21 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 11 Nov 2021 08:21:17 -0500

Well first thing you need to do is research how to change your RE code, General Under Honorable is not bad. I know there are ways, I just dont know those ways. Once you have your RE code changed, you start the process over, you may or may not need to start from square one.

DONT CONTACT YOU OLD CHAIN OF COMMAND. They gave you bad advice and if you were really under bad leadership why the F would you ask them anyway??

All other options aside: Learn to speak French. The French have this small branch that accepts non-French citizens. Their training is tough, but I have never met a Legionaire that wasnt a fairly bad ass dude. They wont care much about your history.

Response by Cpl Vic Burk made Nov 11 at 2021 9:04 AM

Cpl Vic Burk — Thu, 11 Nov 2021 09:04:59 -0500

It is highly unlikely any branch will take you. You established a pattern of refusing to obey orders. Leadership will look at this as a sign that if you did it in the past, you will do it in the future. Unless a full scale war against the United States occurs I think your hopes of getting back into the military are extremely slims to none, and even then still very slim to none.

Question: If you screwed up the first time and got an Article 15, why didn't you learn from this and stay on the straight and narrow? I got a field grade Article 15 in boot camp. I flew straight the rest of the time I was in the Corps. I learned, why didn't you?

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 11 at 2021 1:14 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 11 Nov 2021 13:14:55 -0500

I don't think the items noted as the cause of the Administrative action are the whole story.

My lengthy story below is more for potential recruits than it is any sort of recommendation to get back in the military.

If you were student leadership, you'd have been removed from such positions at the moment of any problems.

In AIT, smoking and alcohol are commonly permitted, but #1) they are a privilege usually reserved for those AIT soldiers not flagged for anything (only to be done in designated areas or off post), and #2) you have to be of age. So if it happened in BCT then yea, those are a no-go. To avoid AR15's in BCT one basically has to wake up, eat (what they give you, where they give it to you), sleep (when only allowed to), train, and nothing else. BCT is about every single day sucking, and just making it to the next day without any problems.

In BCT the whole process is there to train you into being a soldier. They pounce on you because they need to hammer into you that you need to follow what you are told regardless of how mundane it is. In fact, most everything you get hammered with in BCT WILL NOT FOLLOW YOU. The vast majority of the time the Drills are BLUFFING. Yes, they make your life hell, but only within their little sphere of influence which is only the company or platoon they are charged with.

To get hammered for petty things in AIT one has to be flagged, or abuse the extra freedoms they were given.

I can totally see the hammer coming down for under age drinking. Leadership is exposed to adverse risks when stuff like that happens. If an under age AIT soldier is caught drinking off post by a civilian cop, well now the General knows about it.

It's important to read the policy memos on the walls everywhere. When someone says something that pertains to alcohol or smoking or whatever, it's important to note the rank and command level at the bottom of the memo. That's the hand that's holding the hammer for violating that specific policy. If a memo says no bubble gum while on post and it's signed by General Smith that's the level of punishment that's coming down for chewing bubble gum.

I'm suspect a Company CO would say "don't fight the discharge". That's sort of against the whole due process of separating a soldier from the Army. I'm not saying it didn't happen. I'm just saying the CO has no reason to fear an ate up AIT soldier from mounting a strong defense if all the administrative ducks have been lined up, and his boss supports the action, which in this example with Field Grade AR15s appears to be the case.

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My favorite separation I processed was a soldier for not attending drill (he was such a trouble maker in other regards as well). I gave him all the paperwork, gave him the contact for JAG and the IG, and next drill weekend I get a call from a MSG from the IG. The MSG told me the soldier said he wasn't being treated fairly be me. The MSG then asked where the soldier is, and I said the soldier is absent again. So now, instead of the 9 missed drill events he's now racked up 13.

But behind the attendance problem was a soldier that used his Government Travel Card (GTC) for personal use, didn't pay the balance, and per Commanding General Policy could not be excused from attending drill if there was an outstanding balance on the GTC. So it was not little o'l "ME" a puny Company Commander that did this to him. A Hammer much heavier than mine came slamming down. I merely provided the black and white attendance regulation violation that the CG could enforce without having to jump through hoops to separate the soldier for other problems that might need a more lengthy legal process to justify.

Finally.......... after the soldier was notified by mail that the General approved the separation and his discharge orders were cut he came calling back to my NCO full time staff. At which point (he wasn't even on our books anymore), it was all moot because he was now a civilian at that point. Up until then he thought he was only fighting against a LT's nonsense. That's not my signature on the bottom of the letter. It was sent by a General's office.

Response by SGT Erica Smith made Nov 12 at 2021 2:22 AM

SGT Erica Smith — Fri, 12 Nov 2021 02:22:03 -0500

The army is your best option to come back in. Second would be the national Guard. You will need a moral waiver. And those are your best bet. Don’t talk to your chain of command. They can’t do anything for you. Speak with a recruiter and be honest. If they say they can’t help you, move on and find another who will.

Response by SSgt Christophe Murphy made Nov 15 at 2021 10:28 AM

SSgt Christophe Murphy — Mon, 15 Nov 2021 10:28:52 -0500

You'll need to find a recruiter willing to put in the work. You have an uphill battle for sure. Pattern of misconduct is tough to shake but you can submit a waiver.