Ideology In Iraq and Afghanistan?

MAJ Ken Landgren — Sun, 11 Oct 2015 19:37:34 -0400

Ideology is often the Center of Gravity, or true strength to a society. People become more amenable to changing ideology when the society has experienced a tremendous amount of pain and violence. Two notable examples is Japan and Germany. Neither country had the will or desire to fight against Allied forces. We exerted our will upon them.

Let's now look at Afghanistan and Iraq. We will most likely leave much of the enemy in tact with their ideology, will, desire, and ability to press the fight. Growth of a fledgling nation is predicated on safety and security, but it is fleeting. It's deja vu.

What are your thoughts?

Response by Capt Seid Waddell made Oct 11 at 2015 10:53 PM

Capt Seid Waddell — Sun, 11 Oct 2015 22:53:48 -0400

This is what happens when we don't fight to win.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 12 at 2015 4:13 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 12 Oct 2015 04:13:55 -0400

For Iraq and Afghanistan to be fixed we would have to dedicate more blood, sweat and money than the American people would ever be willing to pay. Could we change the ideology of these countries? No, not now and not with the current state of our citizenry and government.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 12 at 2015 10:09 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 12 Oct 2015 10:09:26 -0400

A society loses it's way when a loud and/or ruthless few take over by seducing or intimidating a placid population into allowing them to do so.
There are only really two solutions:
Complete and total destruction and discrediting of that ideology such as what happened to Nazi Germany.
or
The people have enough, get fed up, and rise up to throw the bums out.

The better solution is the second one, as a whole lot of people will pay dearly for the madness of a few.

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Oct 12 at 2015 3:58 PM

SFC Mark Merino — Mon, 12 Oct 2015 15:58:17 -0400

The Russians are having another go at it. Let their troops take some hits for awhile. Maybe their strategies will enable something better to happen.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 12 at 2015 8:37 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 12 Oct 2015 20:37:09 -0400

The only way to beat an ideology is to change the ideology by changing it, imposing yours on it, our killing all who have it. It ends up being total war. Since no western countries are willing to wage total war the western way can never win that way.

Response by LTC Michael Hrycak made Oct 13 at 2015 1:53 PM

LTC Michael Hrycak — Tue, 13 Oct 2015 13:53:30 -0400

I served alongside the Iraqi Security Forces (ISF) on a Transition Team. They were willing to stand up and fight, and we trained and armed them. However, the weakness, in our ideology influencing theirs, started when our government started letting them know that we weren't in it for the long term. We should have been able to maintain our influence in another role after the ISF assumed the security mission for their country. I remember Local Nationals that worked for us in Iraq, they were facing death sometimes for collaborating but they felt strongly enough to continue to assist in rebuilding their security forces. Therefore, their ideology and our ideology both need to synchronize, but allow each to attain their own goals while continuing harmoniously.

Response by SPC George Rudenko made Oct 13 at 2015 4:01 PM

SPC George Rudenko — Tue, 13 Oct 2015 16:01:18 -0400

Keep in mind, in areas of say Africa, middle east, the former soviet union, there were two things at work. First, was a significantly higher level of UNeducation, and a planned persistent propaganda campaign. So, it you look purely at ideology, it becomes skewed because what the "leaders" of that area tell them IS their ideology. They can't read for themselves so how can they define their own beliefs?

Response by LTC Ray B. (Ret) made Aug 6 at 2019 7:04 PM

LTC Ray B. (Ret) — Tue, 06 Aug 2019 19:04:29 -0400

The only solution in Afghanistan was total war. We could have but it wasn’t the mission. That country has no desire to westernize unlike Germany and Japan. The Taliban and all radicals do not measure success by battles won or lost but by the continued fight. As long as they fight they have not lost. Islam is not about win or loss but jihad, the struggle.