If a non-NCO is a team leader, do you have to stand at Parade Rest when speaking to them?

PVT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 30 Jan 2019 07:17:02 -0500

Response by LTC Kevin B. made Jan 30 at 2019 7:38 AM

LTC Kevin B. — Wed, 30 Jan 2019 07:38:29 -0500

Required, per normal customs and courtesies? No. However, you should tread cautiously here. Are you searching for a technicality to avoid showing someone in a leadership position some base level of respect, or is this someone in a leadership position who is trying to lock you up to prove a some kind of a point? If the former, I would recommend against falling on your sword over this. If the latter, I would comply when this next occurs, but then bring it up to your NCOs afterwards.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 30 at 2019 8:27 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 30 Jan 2019 08:27:50 -0500

I would just do it until they say not to. What's the harm? They will likely be an NCO soon enough anyway, might as well start off on the right foot.

Response by SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 30 at 2019 8:41 AM

SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 30 Jan 2019 08:41:41 -0500

No absolutely not. Just because you hold a position doesn't mean you hold a rank. I have been in a PSG multiple times but during those times I was not a Senior NCO because I was not a SFC or above. Maybe you don't remember your Drill Sergeant pitching you this module during BCT.

On the command of execution REST of Parade, REST, move the left foot about 10
inches to the left of the right foot. Keep the legs straight without locking the knees,
resting the weight of the body equally on the heels and balls of both feet.

10. Simultaneously, place the hands at the small of the back and centered on the belt.
Keep the fingers of both hands extended and joined, interlocking the thumbs so
that the palm of the right hand is outward.

11. Keep the head and eyes as in the position of attention. Remain silent and do not
move unless otherwise directed. Stand At Ease, At Ease, and Rest may be executed
from this position.

****12. NOTE: Enlisted Soldiers assume this position when addressing all noncommissioned officers or when noncommissioned officers address noncommissioned officers of superior rank.

Response by SGT Dave Tracy made Jan 30 at 2019 9:38 AM

SGT Dave Tracy — Wed, 30 Jan 2019 09:38:46 -0500

As one would to an NCO? No. And again I say no! That said, you may have a chain-of-command that will say to do it. I was a SPC team leader off and on for 3 years, and for a while E3 and below were told to stand at parade rest ANY Specialists (presumably they are NCOs in training...pfft!). My Platoon Sergeant lit up a guy who was just talking to me for not being at parade rest as he was lower in rank. It was rather uncomfortable, and frankly not appropriate for us to do, but we were caught between some leadership experiment (or whatever) our immediate command concocted and Army customs & courtesies. Luckily, that practice went away after a while. That might not help you now, but as time goes by, you'll come to understand there's a nuanced art to functioning in the Army that goes beyond the letter of the Army regulations. Good luck.

Response by SGT David T. made Jan 30 at 2019 10:03 AM

SGT David T. — Wed, 30 Jan 2019 10:03:45 -0500

There are a couple of ways to answer this. On paper, probably not. In practice in an infantry unit, I have seen it enforced zealously. I don't necessarily agree with the practice, but best not to sink the boat while you are standing in it.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 30 at 2019 10:10 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 30 Jan 2019 10:10:33 -0500

Are they a SPC or a CPL? Remember the Army sees CPL as an NCO. I am in a TL spot and would never expect nor allow a lower enlisted to stand at parade rest when speaking to me unless it was matter of formation. When I pin CPL or SGT, I will expect them to, but for now, I do not expect it, nor is it a custom reg.

Response by CSM Richard StCyr made Jan 30 at 2019 10:29 AM

CSM Richard StCyr — Wed, 30 Jan 2019 10:29:20 -0500

Yes, if you know they are serving in an NCO capacity, then they rate the courtesy's afforded an NCO. Refer to AR 600-25 Salutes , Honors and Courtesy's and AR 600-20 Command policy under Duties of NCOs.
I served as a Squad Leader as a SPC4 in the 80's and since Combat Heavy Construction units were not authorized Corporals was appointed as an acting Sergeant. Wore SGT Stripes and carried appointment orders but was paid as a SPC4 ( there are no longer acting Sergeants). That removed the issues that have been discussed in a couple recent threads where SPC's and in one case a PFC were serving in team leader positions.

Response by SGT Richard H. made Jan 30 at 2019 12:42 PM

SGT Richard H. — Wed, 30 Jan 2019 12:42:02 -0500

No, there is no regulation that requires it. That said, "common practice" does vary from unit to unit, and sometimes you have to make a decision for yourself about who is and is not able to make your life miserable. My suggestion would be for you as a brand new private to go with the flow and do as your team leader asks, as well as address him by his proper rank. The rank decorum is especially common in an Infantry unit. When you have an opportunity to ask your squad leader or PSG whether you're really supposed to do that, then by all means, do so...and do that in a casual manner, as if you're really trying to learn. Again, my best advice for a brand new Private is to go with the flow and learn everything you can. Soon enough, you may be in a position where you are trying to establish yourself as a leader, and in the case of a SPC, try to keep in mind that he probably just got put into a position where he's now in charge of his friends, so he has no choice but to figure out how to draw some lines.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 30 at 2019 1:28 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 30 Jan 2019 13:28:41 -0500

Do you have a problem standing at parade rest for a TL? If so, you're going to have a very difficult time.
What is the standard in your unit? If it's standing at parade rest, do it and be part of the team, or push back and accept the label of barracks lawyer and trouble maker.
If you're asking if it is in writing in an AR or FM, the FM (D&C) states NCO, not a person assigned to an NCO position. AR 600-20 places NCOs and enlisted member in leadership and supervisory positions in the NCO Support Channel, but doesn't address your question.
Still doesn't say you "have to stand at parade rest," right?
If your Chain of Command wants you to stand at parade rest for the SPC in a TL position, and you don't, it may be a stretch, but it could be considered conduct that interferes with the good order and discipline of the unit. That, is in writing under the UCMJ. Yet, I'm not a member of the JAG Corps, or a barracks lawyer.
To put it in perspective, I recall standing at parade rest for NCOs who were junior in rank to me in Airborne School as a SSG for SGT Blackhats, and as a SFC in ANCOC, when BNCOC SGLs engaged me. Sure, a couple of the BNCOC SGLs did it just to have a SFC stand at parade rest, but you have to be above that.
Don't spend time wandering whether someone can legally do something, aside from having, discrimination, or safety violations. Spend time on making a positive contribution. You'll find it pays off much better than pushing back against things that will matter little in hindsight.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 30 at 2019 1:53 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 30 Jan 2019 13:53:23 -0500

It is not necessary as per customs and curtsies. HOWEVER, take this for what it’s worth, but start doing it. I guarantee:
1) those guys, even if they tell you to relax will appreciate the respect
2) they will appreciate the acknowledgment of thier hard work and increase in responsibility
3) the more you do it, the more confidence and feeling of respect they will have. More often times than not, they will strive to work harder and work harder for you because they have a sense of backing by thier fellow soldiers.

Take this as a rare instance in which you as a lower enlisted are able to help develop your leader. Sometimes the difference between a strong and confident leader and a leader who is weak minded and indecisive are the transition periods right here. Not to discredit other leaders by any means, but we all have had the feeling of that one leader who tries to hard to please everyone, and then that one leader who fills you up with encouragement even when times are shitty and doesn’t bend to anyone because he knows what needs to be done while keeping in mind what’s best for his soldiers. Sorry for the tangent. Good to see younger soldiers asking questions on here. The thirst for knowledge and searching for the right answer pumps me up.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 1 at 2019 10:28 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 01 Feb 2019 22:28:24 -0500

I would have to say that it depends on how your chain of command, including your TL interprets
AR 600-20
4–3. Military courtesy
a. Courtesy among members of the Armed Forces is vital to maintain military discipline. Respect to seniors will be extended at all times.

And also how much good will or animosity you wish to generate for yourself if it is customary within your unit.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 8 at 2019 4:10 AM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 08 Feb 2019 04:10:11 -0500

Its not always about the rank on the chest, its about respect to the position. As a CW2 attending Air Assault School, I stood at parade rest anytime I addressed the cadre because that is the standard for the school and as a student I am no different than any other student. If your unit has a standard for standing at parade rest for team leaders, guess what you should do? Once upon a time I was a Team Leader as a PFC, a little respect paid never harmed anyone.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 8 at 2019 7:20 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 08 Feb 2019 07:20:32 -0500

Yes