If I stay in, I may be subject to dishonorable discharge, or I may be able to get a voluntary honorable discharge. What should I do?

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Response by LTC Paul Labrador made Nov 19 at 2014 3:23 PM

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You need to speak to your post JAG officer.

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Nov 19 at 2014 3:24 PM

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No good comes from running away to take the easy way out. No one accuses me of something I didn't do! I would take great pleasure in standing there and let them try to pin something on me that I didn't do. Get legal representation, be 100% forthright and honest, and prepare for glory!

Response by WO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 19 at 2014 3:29 PM

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Go to your nearest military base and talk to a JAG officer.
http://www.usar.army.mil/ourstory/commands/USARLC/Pages/Legal-Assistance.aspx

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 19 at 2014 3:39 PM

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You need to speak with JAG immediately. If you have nothing to hide, you have no reason to run!

Response by PO2 Corey Ferretti made Nov 19 at 2014 3:39 PM

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Ok if you did nothing wrong by taking the "voluntary" honorable discharge you are admitting guilt to something you are saying you are innocent to. Like the others have said sit down wihta JAG officer or a Lawyer who understands the UCMJ. You have two choices here take the easy way and look guilty or stand you ground and face what going on knowing that the outcome could be bad. I know i would not let my name be drug through the dirt and just walk away. It will be hard but you have to decide what you want.

Response by 1st Lt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 19 at 2014 3:40 PM

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Word of advice, find a civilian lawyer who is familiar with Military proceedings. While we have great defense counsel in the military, they often have too much on thier plate.. If you can afford a decent civilian lawyer, it is well worth your money.

Response by COL Jean (John) F. B. made Nov 19 at 2014 4:13 PM

2014-11-19T16:13:50-05:00

SPC Voye, if you are truly innocent of the accusations that have ben made, you should stand up to them and fight them. I would never walk away from them and I don't think you should either.

As others have suggested, get legal advice from the SJA. Such help is available to members of the Reserve Components, as was posted by WO1 Private RallyPoint Member in an earlier post. They will help you make a decision about the steps you need to take.

In addition, you need to discuss this with NCOs and/or officers in your unit that know you and that you feel comfortable talking to. Contrary to what you may think, they are interested in you as a person and soldier and will be frank with you about your options and will offer suggestions.

Not knowing the circumstances makes offering advice to you very difficult. Seek out somebody in your unit that you know and trust and seek his/her advice. Don't make this rash decision on your own. Get advice, weigh your options and then do what your heart and common sense tell you to do.

Have faith in the system that, if you are truly innocent of what you may be accused of, you will prevail. Be true to yourself.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 19 at 2014 4:36 PM

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As a member of the USAR SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member, there are regulations and one is AR 135-178 Enlisted Administrative Separations, rapid action revision, dated 18 March 2014. The regulation covers the various discharge options. As LTC Paul Labrador stated, has a hearing begun, Commanders Inquiry, have you been counseled, have you been formally charged? Any accusation can be serious but I implore you to seek counsel and most certainly don't waive your right to counsel.

If there is talk about separation proceedings(discharge), then your Commander has to notify you, not your 1SG, Sq Ldr, Plt Sgt or PL, your Commander. All your 1SG is going to do is make his recommendations to your Cdr, as well your Cdr should get input from your leadership team. After all that, then he/she has to weigh everything and decide how they move forward.

In the notification, you have certain rights that your Cdr must go over with you, so you understand them. I looked at your profile, are you close to reaching your 6 year mark?? If so, you may request a hearing before an administrative separation board if you have 6 or more years of total active and/or reserve service from the date of notification of said proceedings. IOW(in other words), when your Cdr notifies you he/she intends to initiate action to separate you, that's when the clock starts ticking. (it's all in the regulation btw.) Keep in mind if you retain civilian counsel, you bear all the costs, the gov't will not reimburse you.

Hate to break it to you, there's no "voluntary discharge", well there is but there's certain specific criteria you have to meet and I don't think that applies here.

Look, it appears the cart is before the horse, find out what is going on. Once you get the bigger picture, then you can start planning. Good luck to you.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 19 at 2014 5:07 PM

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I agree with everything everyone else is saying. If you run away, not only will you be admitting defeat, you are throwing your dignity down the garbage disposal. I know it may seem easier just to run while you can, but if you didnt do anything wrong the TRUTH WILL COME OUT. It always does.... eventually. I am not sure what you are being accused of but JAG would be the first place I would go if I were in your boots.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 19 at 2014 7:12 PM

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SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member, if I were accused of a crime that I was innocent of, there is not a chance in hell that I would compromise my honor by taking NJP or a discharge in order to avoid consequences. I know you are scared, but there are people on you side. Lean on them. Get real legal advice. Get emotional and material support from your friends, family, and fellow Soldiers.

You will regret it forever if you just roll over and surrender.

You have not said what the alleged offence is. Most have a pretty high bar to prove, especially difficult if you are in fact not there... meaning they will lack physical evidence.

***This is my OPINION, and I am not a lawyer*** - Reserve units blink when confronted with the administrative challenge of actually doing a Court Marshall. Almost always. Again, the crime matters here, as does visibility up the CoC, since once it gets to certain level, it takes on a life of its own.

My advice is to see if they would be receptive to a transfer to another unit. I'll wager they will be pleased to just have the problem go away.

If you don't like that option, start digging a foxhole and improve your position continuously. In the meantime, do everything right and be a good Soldier. Perhaps they will revisit their assumptions about you.

Good luck.

Response by SFC Melker Johansson made Nov 19 at 2014 9:00 PM

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As Military Paralegal NCO, I recommend that you seek advice from a TDS attorney.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 19 at 2014 9:09 PM

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Without more details it's kind of hard to give specific advice, but I can tell you the following. Speak to JAG, time two weeks ago. If they tell you that you're likely looking at a court martial, since as far as I'm aware that's the only way to get a dishonorable discharge, and you somehow have the option to voluntarily separate from the Army with an honorable discharge then take it and don't look back.

Dishonorable discharges are the equivalent of a felony conviction. Your future job prospects and in some cases your civil liberties are stripped from you upon conviction. If there is any chance that you might have that heading your way and you have an out then take it.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 19 at 2014 9:09 PM

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I have updated the question description to inform you all of what the circumstances are.

Response by CW2 Joseph Evans made Nov 19 at 2014 9:12 PM

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1. Seek Legal representation through the JAG Trial Defense System (free and mandatory)
2. Seek Civilian representation (optional and expensive, but may still be worth it, cost benefit analysis)
3. Get counseling (you are under a lot of stress)
4. Shut up. You are your own worst enemy right now.
5. Find positive things to focus on.

Good Luck.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 19 at 2014 9:30 PM

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There are often JAG officers who are reservists and also practice privately. I bet you may be able to find one through Jag at the nearest base.

In the mean time, try to find proof of your whereabouts.... Credit card transactions for gas or food, for example. Even if you don't have receipts the transaction history in your statement from the bank will help

Response by CMSgt James Nolan made Nov 19 at 2014 10:29 PM

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SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member Because the charges that are being discussed are military in nature-based on what you are saying (discharge etc), you are entitled to Defense Counsel (as others have pointed out) Additionally-as others have advised: If you are in fact innocent of what you are being accused of, you need to stand up. Just because someone says that you did something, does not make it fact. There needs to be evidence of what they are accusing.

You should not be discussing an on-going case in a public forum, you should seek qualified legal assistance.
You can seek "support" from this forum, my advice though is not to discuss your case/charges.....just friendly advice to you.

Good luck.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 19 at 2014 10:36 PM

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First off you need to shut your mouth. Anything you say will be used against you in a legal investigation, including anything you already have said on here.

Second as others have mentioned you need to speak to JAG ASAP!

They are the legal experts and know how you should proceed. You definitely don't want to hide from this. At the same time you don't want to incriminate yourself. If all they have is just a licence number, it is possible that it was incorrect. If you in fact had not been there there may be proof from cell phone service and if they were to do cell phone forensics off of a warrant they may be able to see where you were when accused.

I am not sure what charge would be other than violating an order, unless there was some other criminal activity present. Even than it would require investigation and there would need to be proof that you were culpable in any actions that occurred.

Hypothetically speaking, and I am not condoning anyone being part of these organizations.

Since you are in the reserves you are weird gray area. Since you are a reservist if you did go to such an event and were not on orders, I am not sure if they have much of a case. I think worst case scenario you would be just released from the service for not being in the conformance of service, etc.

To try you of a crime they have to conduct an Article 32 investigation. They have to have evidence that you committed a crime. It sounds like if there is an official record of a car with your licence plate but not the description of your car. That would be reasonable doubt that it was not your car. That right there would have the charge thrown out, unless other evidence were present, such as your picture on social media at one, or someone at the rally knows you and can attest that you were there.

If everything you say is accurate it sounds like there is not enough proof to validate beyond a reasonable doubt. But I am not a JAG so go seek one now.

Response by SPC(P) Jay Heenan made Nov 20 at 2014 1:53 AM

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I will just respond by saying, STOP TALKING ABOUT IT NOW AND GO SEE JAG! If you read all of these comments, they are all telling you the same thing...

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 20 at 2014 7:00 AM

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There needs to be a thorough investigation. As an investigator my first question would be where was your vehicle that you say was inoperable? Could someone have taken your plates and used them and replaced them? I have many more questioms but not my investigation.

Response by PO2 Stephen Schlager made Nov 20 at 2014 9:43 AM

2014-11-20T09:43:13-05:00

#1 Speak to JAG NOW!
#2 Be 100% honest with your representative from the start. If you are truly innocent stand your ground.

Response by PO1 Michael Burdick made Nov 20 at 2014 1:05 PM

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I say stand your ground and fight. Don't let the system steam roll you and certainly don't let them intimidate you in to anything. If you are innocent take to a court Marshall if necessary. The KKK is considered a domestic terrorist group so the Army investigate folks would have to get involved and they will need hard evidence so if what you say is true they will have a tough time trying to build a case.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 20 at 2014 9:26 PM

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SPC Voye,
Go to JAG, now. Also, stop talking about this on social media. Yes, plenty of our fellow service members before me have said the same thing...I just want to emphasize it.

Now, having said that, I will also echo someone else who said that if you're telling us the truth, then merely being someplace doesn't imply membership. By what's already been posted by you, my educated guess is someone misread a license plate and is trying to double-down to cover up their mistakes at your expense.

Don't give them the rope to hang you with. Stop talking about this and go to JAG now. Has your chain of command actualy contacted you with any kind of notification of UCMJ action or other action???? If not, don't worry about it. If yes, GO TO JAG!

Response by TSgt Joshua Copeland made Jan 29 at 2015 8:21 AM

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SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member, Did this get resolved?

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 29 at 2015 12:16 PM

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You need to ask your battle buddy for help, and have them escort you to the nearest Chaplain. From your post, I am concerned about your emotional and mental welfare.

Response by LCDR Rabbah Rona Matlow made Mar 24 at 2015 6:57 AM

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How can we answer this question in the blind? What are the circumstances/issues?

Response by COL Charles Williams made Mar 24 at 2015 7:26 AM

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First seek counsel of a military counsel; trial defense service (TDS). If this is important, and I suspect it is, you may also need to a consider civilian attorney.

Everything that happens within the UCMJ/MCM is situation dependent, and military lawyers are your best starting point for your range of options.