If the government ceases pensions for retirement would most of the people in the military stay in?

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 03 Dec 2013 14:46:25 -0500

Response by CMC Robert Young made Dec 3 at 2013 3:11 PM

CMC Robert Young — Tue, 03 Dec 2013 15:11:45 -0500

Some of our more short sighted people probably will continue to serve, but for those planning our future lives, loss of a dependable guaranteed retirement will definitely impact the decision to serve as a career. We may see a boost in people who serve one tour for the training and experience and then get out. It may depend on what if any alternative is offered. Thoughtful question given all of the attention military benefits are attracting on Capital Hill right now.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 3 at 2013 4:46 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 03 Dec 2013 16:46:54 -0500

It depends on lots of other things but 20 years will lose all meaning.

Personally I think we need to change the system in the long term but everyone currently serving should be grandfathered.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 3 at 2013 4:49 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 03 Dec 2013 16:49:19 -0500

not me , I'd be gone in a heart beat !!!

Response by 1SG Johnny Carter made Dec 3 at 2013 4:58 PM

1SG Johnny Carter — Tue, 03 Dec 2013 16:58:29 -0500

I'd get out! I mean trust me I love my job and serving but when you look forward to retirement as another means to live after this It is hard. Kind of a reward for all the sacrifices we endure.

Response by SSG Robert Burns made Dec 3 at 2013 5:01 PM

SSG Robert Burns — Tue, 03 Dec 2013 17:01:01 -0500

I don't think that anyone who is INDEF would have much of a choice.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Dec 3 at 2013 5:01 PM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Tue, 03 Dec 2013 17:01:44 -0500

Of course! Retirement or not, I still need a job right now...

Response by SGM Matthew Quick made Dec 3 at 2013 5:23 PM

SGM Matthew Quick — Tue, 03 Dec 2013 17:23:50 -0500

1. This will never happen.

2. If anything changes, current service members would be grandfathered.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 3 at 2013 6:24 PM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 03 Dec 2013 18:24:48 -0500

I'm sure we would be grandfathered, however, I could possibly see them trying to go from the high 3 to high 5 which was recently proposed. Here's what I would do. When you join you get a choice. Standard retirement or a 401K where the Army matches, lets say, 50% of what you put in. After your 1st term you can change it and that would be it. The Army would take back its matches but you could keep what you put in and the gains.

The only reason I would allow for a change is because most 18 year olds don't know what the first thing about savings and retirement, sadly, neither most of the Senior NCOs I know.

Response by SSG Laureano Pabon made Dec 3 at 2013 7:05 PM

SSG Laureano Pabon — Tue, 03 Dec 2013 19:05:12 -0500

I figure that if that were to happen, the military would not be the only ones affected, every one in the civilian sector would be affected by it as well.

If that happens that would mean I have to move my family to : "Old mans town, North Carolina". perhaps some where in the woods, become hermits and live off the land, knowing that no one wants to hire an old man to do what a young man with allot energy can do better. lol

But most of all, those who enact such a law, will have to really consider it because by approving such acts, would make them the Affect of their own cause. which is not very bright.

I haven't heard anything yet in the civilian sector, just considerations of the possibilities only due to the deficit that is so high.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 3 at 2013 7:19 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 03 Dec 2013 19:19:02 -0500

No, i would not continue to serve in the Army. There would no benefit for the pain I endure on a daily basis

Response by CW4 John Beebe, BS, DML made Dec 3 at 2013 7:25 PM

CW4 John Beebe, BS, DML — Tue, 03 Dec 2013 19:25:04 -0500

Highly doubtful that this would happen although it has been punted around a somewhat in the MDW. I don't think it would happen as you can not run a military on 1LT's and SGT's. There would be no reason to develop leadership who would forfeit a lifetime career to just get a "Thank You" and a pin at the end of 20 or more years. Some may desire to do this to the military but that is why we serve... For those who deserve freedom and even those who hate what we do to protect it.

Response by SFC Thomas Hrabe made Dec 3 at 2013 8:15 PM

SFC Thomas Hrabe — Tue, 03 Dec 2013 20:15:31 -0500

I would hope our Military would endure but I could see a lot of Soldier's getting out due to not having anything to look forward to. I know I would.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 3 at 2013 8:20 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 03 Dec 2013 20:20:33 -0500

I would get out.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 3 at 2013 9:02 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 03 Dec 2013 21:02:19 -0500

That's a bit of a hard question to answer. I've quite obviously had a wasted 16.5 years of service so far...but I've also had the opportunity to do some unbelievable things in these many years. USASOC, REDECOM, USAREC on top of all the leadership experience I've gained in all of the different places I've been? The story I have to tell is pretty much what you hear bandied about in VFW halls across this great nation of ours.

But you want me to tolerate the Army on cool jobs and far-flung lands alone? F* off. How's that pay the bills? You'd be waving a guidon under an interstate from your cardboard box while sitting in your wheelchair thinking that all of this with no pension would be worth it. All of those running and rucking miles destroying our joints and bones. All of those hours in the blazing heat and frigid cold while wearing the many pounds of gear that we do. Four o'clock mornings going until six in the evening. Twenty four hour duties. Numerous bouts of jet lag. Post-traumatic stress. Lost time with the spouse and kids. Miserable excuses for leaders, peers, and subordinates? You want us to do this s* for free? Ha ha...no.

I can also understand the argument that we're not mercenaries. If we were truly professionals, we'd do this for free. Okay, make that same argument to the NFL or an A-list recording artist. If we're doing this for the money and benefits and pension packages, what's to say that a more well-paying benefactor couldn't come along and buy our loyalty? To an extent, that's what Academi and FBI and such do. THIS is where the sunshine and lollipops aspect comes to play: Honor. Duty. Fidelity. We do have a certain love for the Army and for the country; otherwise we wouldn't have been willing to sign that dotted line so many years ago. But we did so knowing we would be getting at least a pittance of a compensation in return with an expected larger recompense at 20, 30, 35, and 40 years of service. Take that covenant away and there's no reason for us to be loyal or to hold honor to the dishonorable.

Response by SSG Laureano Pabon made Dec 3 at 2013 9:26 PM

SSG Laureano Pabon — Tue, 03 Dec 2013 21:26:44 -0500

In addition to what I posted earlier,

I remember that in my time, during the Ragan administration,

We had the 20 years retirement and you get your pension upon retirement.

Later on that same period, something new happen.

Retirement was changed from 20 to 30 years

and you don't get your retirement until your in your 70's or around that time.

This included an early out program under the :Gramm–Rudman law

that later became illegal.

But under that law, which was voluntarily, and since not to many people were getting out, it became involuntary.

I'm putting his here in case their appears to be some similarities, from my time to now.

First it seems like the major battles are over, to be followed by a down size, and if that's not all, guess what's next?

It took a war to bring the retirement from 30 back to 20 again and getting your pension after your complete your 20 years, rather then when your retire at around 70.

Response by CPO Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 3 at 2013 9:47 PM

CPO Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 03 Dec 2013 21:47:56 -0500

I'm feeling pretty outnumbered here, the only Sailor in the group!

We are getting enough taken from us as it is.

I have served 20+ years and I would bail in a heartbeat.

I read a comment that was disturbing to me, that this needs to be changed in the long term! Never!!! There are other programs within the government that need to be cut before taking from those that give their lives protecting this nation!

We have sacrificed enough, I already see our TRICARE benefits getting cut, TRICARE service centers closing, our commissaries getting shut down, need I go on?

Response by SSG Jeffery Haynes made Dec 3 at 2013 10:30 PM

SSG Jeffery Haynes — Tue, 03 Dec 2013 22:30:11 -0500

Not too many years ago there was talk of offering a retirement after 10 years of service. Whatever happened to that? When I originally joined, retirement was the furthest thing from my mind. The real question should be when did you decide to make the military a career?

Response by SFC Nikhil Kumra made Dec 3 at 2013 11:40 PM

SFC Nikhil Kumra — Tue, 03 Dec 2013 23:40:46 -0500

Probably not the most popular view on it but the system should definitely be changed to where pensions are pulled after a certain age, say 55. Sure it's a nice perk to be able to pull a pension at 37-38 yrs old, but for what our country (and the world) is going through economically I'm not sure how necessary it is to allow for such a benefit. I'd rather see more education benefits than pension benefits... Grandfather current service members in but get these new guys on a 401k...

Response by SFC Robert Smith made Dec 4 at 2013 6:29 AM

SFC Robert Smith — Wed, 04 Dec 2013 06:29:18 -0500

Life in the military is hard, why would you stay if you could get a pension working somewhere else and be home most of the time I don't think many would stay in.

Response by CPT Keith Steinhurst made Dec 4 at 2013 9:08 AM

CPT Keith Steinhurst — Wed, 04 Dec 2013 09:08:13 -0500

Yes but no - I did not enter service to become 'enriched.' Those who did would leave, the rest of us would continue on the march . . .

Response by CPT Mike M. made Dec 4 at 2013 9:17 AM

CPT Mike M. — Wed, 04 Dec 2013 09:17:02 -0500

I'd be out as soon as the paperwork could process. Don't get me wrong, I love the service for what it is, not for the money but there's a line. We all know we could make more in the civilian world but for those who focus on the money, it's the pretty decent retirement at a pretty young age that entices us to go for 20 or more. Take that away and I'm sorry, but I've got a family to provide for and have to do something that'll set us up for success down the road.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 4 at 2013 1:15 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 04 Dec 2013 13:15:42 -0500

Considering that most of us..if not all of us, joined the miitary due to the fact we love our country and consider it a honor to serve (or something a long those lines)...I would say the vast majority of us would have gotten out after our first enlistment/obligation. Simply due to the fact that's been stated already - We're humans, some of us have families...and we look toward to our futures (or you should be planning for your future)...which includes some type of pension.

Response by SFC Benjamin Parsons made Dec 4 at 2013 2:07 PM

SFC Benjamin Parsons — Wed, 04 Dec 2013 14:07:23 -0500

Collecting for the past 18 years. I don't have the confidence in perpetuity I once did,

especially regarding healthcare (Medicare and TFL is only a year away for me) but believe there is a public response factor that will protect it. For a while longer.

I enjoyed my time in service up until the USSR went out of business. A credible known threat to focus on and train for.

For a long (5 years. Until I retired in '95) period after that, the Army spastically thrashed around looking for a mission. Still had some fun, but mostly not.

I'd have quit earlier if not for the promise of the benefits.

Did not enter the ROAD program until 3 months out.

Response by CW3(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 4 at 2013 3:31 PM

CW3(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 04 Dec 2013 15:31:02 -0500

I would be gone in a heart beat, I'd take my experience and find a better paying job on the outside.

Response by SPC Sven Pacot made Dec 4 at 2013 6:00 PM

SPC Sven Pacot — Wed, 04 Dec 2013 18:00:02 -0500

I would think those who are conscientious of the future and truly concerned about retirement would finish their current contract and find a career where a pension or retirement was on the negotiations. More of the younger, inexperienced, might stay in a little longer for job security more than anything. There are a lot of determining factors, however, that prohibit a straight yes or no answer. It really boils down to the reasons one joined in the first place and why they stay in, not to mention if they have plans of retirement or of they don't mind a career change later on down the road to start planning for a retirement. So I suppose the only correct answer is yes AND no.

Response by SFC Thomas Chappell made Dec 4 at 2013 6:33 PM

SFC Thomas Chappell — Wed, 04 Dec 2013 18:33:55 -0500

The government has already done so much to take away benefits that Veterans were promised when we enlisted, or were commisioned, or even drafted. Since I retired in March and began working for the VA I have witnessed many changes to our benefits and heard many more from concerned Veteran's who were promised healthcare and now are ineligible because of their income.This would be just another way for them to bend us over and convieniently FORGET the lube...

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 4 at 2013 6:37 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 04 Dec 2013 18:37:27 -0500

Gone as fast as I could produce a 4187.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 6 at 2013 1:16 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 06 Dec 2013 13:16:37 -0500

You take away retirement benefits and our military will become a hollow force or worse.

What really needs to happen is for the U. S. to stop thinking it's the police force for the world. We need to take care of our own people and country first before everyone else. When we have our own house in order - then we can think about going and helping those that need it.

I think we should stop all the frivolous foreign aid and spending and use that money for our own people and programs.

The men and women in our country that have worked all their lives deserve to get back the money and paid into social security and definitely all the men and women of our armed forces who have spent 20+ years of their lives in support and/or direct defense of our country deserve compensation as well. Let alone the may members who have been injured or killed they definitely deserve compensation.

I have watched through the years benefits being given and then slowly reversed and/or taken away later by our civilian leaders that we vote into office (whom for the most part have never served). The only time the military gets thought of properly is when a conflict is in progress - after that memories fade and the military starts to take hits from the budget cutters.

Sorry for the long response - I just felt like venting over this issue.

Response by SFC James Baber made Dec 6 at 2013 3:40 PM

SFC James Baber — Fri, 06 Dec 2013 15:40:56 -0500

With the current administration that has shown its disdain for the military it will continue, every time there is a democrat in the WH this happens, look at the downsizing that occurred during Clinton's tenure, he started it as soon as he got in office with reduction of forces, but wanted to continue to send aid to every hole in the wall around the globe. Obama is no different, "the military needs to tighten its belts and make reductions and budget cuts, but oh by the way we need to send a dozen F-16s free of charge to the Muslim Brotherhood", or provide support to the Syrian rebels with billion dollar aid packages. And Congress continues to vote itself a 30% pay raise every time they agree on a 1.1% for the military. As Jefferson put it, we need to refresh that tree more than just a little.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 8 at 2013 10:25 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 08 Dec 2013 22:25:33 -0500

Retirement is what many folks look towards after putting in countless hours doing what the 1% of this country does for a living. No one knows what a person's plan is after they retire from the military and the steady income they're supposed to receive greatly influenced why they wanted to stay in for as long as they did (amongst other reasons, of course). Taking that away will greatly hinder many of our servicemembers' decisions to stay and serve our great nation.

Some of the young Soldiers I have spoken with about plans for their career see retirement see an end all solution to the service they dedicate towards a military career. I don't know if I'd have the heart to tell them a retirement paycheck is not on the horizon for them if they serve a full and honorable career with the Army (speaking for Soldiers ONLY, of course).