In Europe, we can't be in uniform off post. Should grooming standards be lowered so we're not easily Identified?

CH (MAJ) Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 07 May 2015 14:02:20 -0400

Response by SPC Nate Lamphier made May 7 at 2015 2:05 PM

SPC Nate Lamphier — Thu, 07 May 2015 14:05:40 -0400

Since security has tightened up and Military members are being told not to "stand out" aka don't travel in uniform etc.....I have thought about this. This would be a legit concern as it doesn't take much to identify Military personnel outside of uniform....especially near a base at say, an airport.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made May 7 at 2015 2:15 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 07 May 2015 14:15:43 -0400

If the grooming standards are followed loosely, but within regulations, one can blend in rather well. As a former PL of 24 Aviation Warrants, I can assure you that some 'hairdos' that you would NEVER EXPECT to be within regs definitely can be.

Common sense in dress and grooming can help you blend in more easily.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 7 at 2015 3:23 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 07 May 2015 15:23:51 -0400

I spent two years in Germany. It is obvious who is American there. I know that they have closed many of the posts there and our numbers aren't as high, but you can still tell. Unless you really go for it and learn German and adopt the customs, your going to get noticed. My relations with many of my German friends was that they didn't really care. Some are going to like us there, some aren't. There are people in the US that hate each other because of what part of the country they are from. Standing out is just going to happen. Also, they repealled the policy on not wearing your ACUs while traveling in the US.

Response by Col Joseph Lenertz made May 7 at 2015 3:35 PM

Col Joseph Lenertz — Thu, 07 May 2015 15:35:44 -0400

Yes, if the predominant hairstyle off post is long. But this isn't "grow-your-hair-long and forget the rest". The rest of the security training has to be maintained...what you wear, how you talk, who you go around with, the whole thing. A package deal, you can't pick the parts you like.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 7 at 2015 4:36 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 07 May 2015 16:36:34 -0400

CH (MAJ) Private RallyPoint Member Roger that, Sir. I just left in February and thought about that regularly.

Response by PO1 William "Chip" Nagel made May 9 at 2015 2:48 PM

PO1 William "Chip" Nagel — Sat, 09 May 2015 14:48:25 -0400

I'm sure many things come into play in the reason behind this new regulation. I am reminded of my Tour in London. We Couldn't wear our Uniforms outside the Building. 1 day a week we would bring them in, change at work and change back out before we left. The reason behind that while I was there was a carryover from WWI and WWII. US military turned London into a Military Base "Overdressed, Oversexed and Overhere" and since they time they didn't really want to be reminded in their Capital of their dependency on our alliance. I rather liked serving for 3 years wearing a suit and tie too.

Response by SGM Mikel Dawson made Feb 26 at 2016 11:44 AM

SGM Mikel Dawson — Fri, 26 Feb 2016 11:44:49 -0500

I did 12 yrs (Reserve) in Europe. Traveled the trains, around. I never lowered my standards, yet I never had a problem blending in. If you live off post you soon learn how to blend in. If you're never off post, then you'll never learn to blend in. Small things like how you arrange your wallet - what people see first when you open it. Don't have the pompous "I'm better than others" attitude many Americans have. Brand names leave a trail. It's not tough to have opsec.

Response by MAJ Raúl Rovira made Feb 26 at 2016 2:22 PM

MAJ Raúl Rovira — Fri, 26 Feb 2016 14:22:18 -0500

Back in the years 2003-2005 it was ok to be in uniform to and from work. And even to go out for lunch at a German place. Things must have changed. When I was in Camp Darby Italy 2005-2008 we rarely wore our uniforms to and from work. If we did it was from residence straight to post.

To answer your question. I would not say lower the standards but to modify them. It depends what the threat is. In Egypt we all wore suit and tie in part for the mission and never in uniform outside the Embassy. I personally kept my hair longer but always professional and within the regs just like the picture in my profile. But everyone knows we are not from Egypt. Same during my tours in Germany and Egypt.

There are some service members who are trying to blend in. Then we have others who are standing out for the wrong reasons.

Response by CW3 Kevin Storm made Apr 28 at 2016 5:17 PM

CW3 Kevin Storm — Thu, 28 Apr 2016 17:17:08 -0400

This argument has been going on since I was E-1 in Germany in 1982. IMHO some of the hair/mustache restrictions could be looked at a little looser than stateside.

Response by MSgt Jason McClish made May 1 at 2016 4:29 PM

MSgt Jason McClish — Sun, 01 May 2016 16:29:14 -0400

Nope. Standards are standards and must be enforced and complied with. The grooming standards in each service should carry a disclaimer of "Compliance with this publication is mandatory" or something very close to that. Leaders need to enforce polices, regulations, instructions, or whatever the specific service calls it. I was in Europe for 7 years (2006-2013) and this was an off and on occurrence. Educate your people to dress smartly, vary their routine, and do what they get training to do. A short haircut or lack of facial hair on a man in Europe isn't alarming, how he carries himself and acts, surely does. Women's grooming can be done smartly as well. Avoid drawing attention to yourself from what you wear (as in clothes) and other things you wear (makeup, nail polish, etc.) It can be done without top commanders needing to spend time adopting a U.S. European Command policy memo on grooming standards for American servicemembers on the continent. Just my two cents.

Response by PO2 Joseph Hodges made May 2 at 2016 11:47 AM

PO2 Joseph Hodges — Mon, 02 May 2016 11:47:53 -0400

Absolutely not plus many times the minute you speak you identify s something other then native. There are military in European countries with same grooming standards as the US military.

Response by CAPT Kevin B. made May 2 at 2016 12:52 PM

CAPT Kevin B. — Mon, 02 May 2016 12:52:47 -0400

In honor of Yogi, it's deja vu all over again. During the later stages of 'Nam where sailors would get regularly assaulted out in town, the then CNO Zumwalt relaxed the standards greatly including allowing beards. Wigs were allowed too. Apparently you can stuff your long hair under a short rug. It was a combination of safety, morale, and retention dynamics. Folk pretty much polarize on whether or not it was a good idea. By around '81 it was gone. I remember having a beard for my Antarctic tour and then showed up with it at my next duty station MCAS El Toro. The marines were apoplectic. I was getting rid of it anyways as I didn't need it anymore.

Response by CW3 Kevin Storm made May 6 at 2016 10:45 AM

CW3 Kevin Storm — Fri, 06 May 2016 10:45:26 -0400

This issue has been around for decades. When I worked at Nuke Dets back in he 1980's & 90's we encouraged not to look to GIish. Justification was that the item we worked with weren't always looked on as being a good thing by many of the locals. We also had the SMLM vehicles patrol the areas, and on more than a few occasions some of us were asked interesting questions from some of the locals, or whom we thought may be locals. It also doesn't help if there incidents like a plane crashing into ski gondola, sexual assault of a local, DUI with a manslaughter of local and things of that nature, don't help our cause.

Response by CW5 Edward "Tate" Jones Jr. made Oct 15 at 2017 10:50 AM

CW5 Edward "Tate" Jones Jr. — Sun, 15 Oct 2017 10:50:10 -0400

NO!! Period. Standards are standards.

Response by Sgt Unk Jim made Apr 23 at 2018 9:01 PM

Sgt Unk Jim — Mon, 23 Apr 2018 21:01:20 -0400

No!

Response by SFC Ernest Thurston made Oct 5 at 2018 11:30 AM

SFC Ernest Thurston — Fri, 05 Oct 2018 11:30:35 -0400

I was in Europe for three tours. Several of them were during times of hatred for Americans, so we wore civics off post. Changing grooming standards are not going to protect you or help you blend in. You live and work in a military post/base, drive an American cAR with USA plates and buy your clothes in the PX. So I guess you think letting your hair grow a little or a bushy mustache and beard will save you. Those that want to harm you will be able to identify you no matter what way you cut your hair. The best way to protect yourself is to learn the language make friends with the locals and don't be a stupid drunk "ugly American". Or you can be a barracks rat and never leave post.