In your opinion, are NCO's making on the spot corrections?

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 01 Nov 2013 10:00:58 -0400

And what do you do when one does stop you to make a corrections? If your an NCO, do you ever just walk by and say "Thats just not worth my time?"

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 1 at 2013 10:43 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 01 Nov 2013 10:43:19 -0400

No they are not!! Why you may say??? NCO's are not willing to sacrifice or challenge their own careers for potential kickback.  Meaning that if I tell a female soldier her hair interferes with the wear and appearance of her headgear then I am being sexist or EO violation.  If I tell a male soldier he stinks and needs a shower i am a toxic leader for trying to enforce genuine good hygiene.  In a nutshell if more power and less legalities towards the NON-Commiissioned Officer Leadership were given then maybe a more squared away military we will be.  Good leaders taking care of well trained disciplined soldiers cannot come without a price.  this generation beleives they deserve something and that mentality has been going on far too long.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 1 at 2013 11:14 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 01 Nov 2013 11:14:33 -0400

NO and YES! I say no because there is so much red tape out there now about how to handle and deal with soldiers and a lot of us just don't have the time or energy to deal with the drama that comes if a soldier wants to run to IG because they feel they have been wronged. This stems from the fact that higher doesn't back NCOs as well as they should or could. I say yes because I have been corrected and It actually made me feel good that that SFC was like to heck with your feelings get it together and get right (the correction was on my nails and I went during lunch and made them right)! I have also corrected soldiers but my approach has always come from an informative angle with a charge to the individual to make it right....I can't just walk by and not make a wrong right, just like I can't go hauling off into a soldier without knowing if they were aware. I'm a stickler for respect and professionalism.

Response by CMC Robert Young made Nov 1 at 2013 12:05 PM

CMC Robert Young — Fri, 01 Nov 2013 12:05:13 -0400

First Sergeant, the Coast Guard has experienced a decline in our military bearing as well as adherence to our traditions and core values over the last several years which is a direct result of front line NCOs not delivering the focused mentoring our junior people need. On the spot corrections are supposed to be those friendly, and sometimes not so friendly, reminders that we are ALL held to the same standard of performance, appearance and behavior. What NCOs often failed to realize is that a short focused on the spot correction now frequently prevents bigger issues later.

Response by CW3(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 1 at 2013 12:21 PM

CW3(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 01 Nov 2013 12:21:11 -0400

I can tell you that not only are NCO’s not making corrections, but this involves officers as well. We are so afraid of getting reprimanded that we just keep on walking by. I have been back to Fort Gordon, which is TRADOC for signal, that every time I go back it’s the say story. If you see an AIT student, no matter what the rank, turn around and walk the other way. Those students walk on water. They will punish the NCO or Officer before the private, even if that private was wrong by all accounts.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 1 at 2013 1:07 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 01 Nov 2013 13:07:34 -0400

1SG, first off great question. Second, I have to agree with WO1 Baker. I blame both the NCOs and Officers (Both Warrant and Commissioned).

We are the standard bearers, and if the unit's officers are not supporting (or backing up) the NCO then we are wrong. Since it is the Commander that decides all UCMJ matters the buck stops with us.

When I was XO I tried to support my NCO when they corrected Soldiers. When the SHARP or EOA would approach me and want to discuss an NCOs behavior I would listen, but then I would speak with the NCO and the Soldier (Separately) and if I found that the NCO correct in their action I would tell the EOA that I had no issue with the behavior but if they were not satisfied with that then I would set an appointment with the commander and they could bring the case to him. They never did.

If we as Officers and Senior NCOs support those doing the right thing, we won't have issues. I have had Soldiers and NCOs challenge me, but I found that when I stood my ground, eventually they stopped testing me and started doing the right thing, because they knew that I would call them on it.

If we know we are right and we exercise our general military authority then we can't be punished for doing what is right (especially if it is in Black and White).

Old saying "If you don't make a correction, then you have set a new standard. That standard is that there is no standard!"

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 1 at 2013 1:39 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 01 Nov 2013 13:39:34 -0400

What I see now, is I have to make that conscious effort to do it, EO and SHARP be damned. You have to make sure that the correction you are making is right and that you are being respectful to the Soldier. I find myself getting even more intimate with the Regulations because I genuinely care for the military and can't allow myself to have these Soldiers passing me by with a new accepted standard because I didn't say anything. I have been lucky in attending SHARP and EO Schools and when Soldiers make those complaints against me, I tell the respected leadership that I in no way violated either of those programs. I love the answers, but mostly all of your Candor and Honesty. That is the first step in correcting this.

Response by LTC Jason Bartlett made Nov 1 at 2013 1:44 PM

LTC Jason Bartlett — Fri, 01 Nov 2013 13:44:52 -0400

Simply put, No.

Response by SSG Jason Neumann made Nov 1 at 2013 4:53 PM

SSG Jason Neumann — Fri, 01 Nov 2013 16:53:28 -0400

I would like to say that some NCO's do enforce on the spot corrections, but it is rarely seen. I think in today's Army, most NCO's are afraid of making on the spot corrections simply because of reprimands that might come back to them. Just like some have posted on here; if you make a correction to a female....you are committing an EO and/or SHARP violation. Then they simply brush the Soldier off making the on the spot correction or try to humiliate them in public. I have seen it numerous times and it is hard to try and keep a professional bearing when a lower enlisted just brushes you off. Now you can try and get their military I.D. but it would hard when they are making a scene. We have the General Military Authority to make on the spot corrections. I have done it numerous times. You have to use a little tact and politeness to get it across. i still look Soldiers up and down on their uniforms whenever I am walking around ( in uniform or civilians) to see if they are correct...possibly the mentality of being on the trail as a Drill Sergeant. We as a whole need to come back together and enforce these. Some Soldiers get butt hurt about it, but when they see more and more Soldiers correcting each other it will be for the best.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 1 at 2013 5:12 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 01 Nov 2013 17:12:21 -0400

1SG: No.  More and more I see NCOs taking the stance of "friend" and not superior.  When its time to enforce they don't have a leg to stand on because they've allowed "friendship" to come into play.  Also, I see (whereas my case), where you make an on the post correction and your fellow NCOs call it "being too serious" and there's no support within your Chain. When a 1SG downplays/disregards/circumvents the authority of those under his command, then he's kinda made the whole Chain null and void. It WILL be useless.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 1 at 2013 5:41 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 01 Nov 2013 17:41:07 -0400

As a NCO you should never comprimise stadards of discipline. If you see something wrong, you stop and correct it. We are responsible to teach and enforce the right standards. Ignorance is not an excuse, and when someone doesn't know and/or understand something, we should teach them and train them. Once you compromise, as little as it might seem, we have created a sense of acceptance that not doing the right thing is okay. Our duty as NCOs is to never stop doing our job. Leadership doesn't ends at CoB formation and or the weekends. Every relationship requires sacrifices and compromises. We should communicate with subordinates and show them that we truly care about their needs at all times. Our leadership, should also support us and make sure that when we recommend actions against Soldier that disregard corrective training, rehabilitation, and/or assistance; they should face separation. When Soldiers see that because they are about to ETS, nothing is going to happen to them. That sends a bad message to every other Soldier. Standards are there for everyone, and there shouldn't be double standards to avoid extra work, paper work and/or time to take care of the issue. Everythig is outlined in every AR and FM the Army has, there is no grey area. Every individual and situation is different, however the BASIC STANDARDS of disicipline should never be.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 2 at 2013 11:20 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 02 Nov 2013 23:20:40 -0400

Junior (CPL-SGT) do not, but that is due to a lack of development from their Section SGT. I would like to say is's because they lack intestinal fortitude, or the knowledge of the standard; however the reality is that our Seniors are not developing properly. If counseling, and mentorship were more widely used instead of assuming the junior NCO will "make it happen" by virture or he/she wearing stripes our on the spot correction "skill" would be more spot on. SSG Gorman brings up a terrific point as well, the NCO power base has been stolen by Legal....

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 3 at 2013 5:44 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 03 Nov 2013 05:44:38 -0500

Very problematic. I don't see anyone policing anyone. Peer-to-peer or senior-to-junior. I do make an effort to rope in a NCO to correct NCOs or enlisted. I'll go after other officers.

After reading most of these replies I think the biggest issue to me is command climate. The unit (and Soldiers) are only as good as the command team. For myself, the hardest part is addressing an issue and then getting push-back, usually from my fellow officers. I've found the biggest "mouths" are the offenders that know they are wrong and got caught.

I think everyone should pay this forward and we should all make at least one correction we see this week...

Response by SFC Thomas Hrabe made Nov 3 at 2013 8:27 AM

SFC Thomas Hrabe — Sun, 03 Nov 2013 08:27:16 -0500

I say no. We barley counsel soldiers and sub-ordinates, let alone make corrections. No one wants to be the one to tell someone that they are not doing the right thing. That is why we are failing at being the backbone of the Army. Look at NCOER/OERs and you will find that almost everyone walks on water!!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 3 at 2013 8:28 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 03 Nov 2013 08:28:44 -0500

Yes, some of us are. However, if these Soldier's supervisors would do their job instead of trying to be friends with their Soldier, we wouldn't have this problem. It starts at the Leadership level first! But, a lot of Soldiers have been getting over lately. Article 15 packets getting kicked back even though there are supporting documents. Soldiers don't get their way, they attempt to file EO complaints or something that threatens an NCO's career etc. I will continue to enforce the standards but, again it starts at the Leadership level!

Response by SSG Jim Handy made Nov 3 at 2013 9:00 AM

SSG Jim Handy — Sun, 03 Nov 2013 09:00:19 -0500

We did have a problem with this when I was an NCO in the 70's& 80"s and from the responses I am reading here the problem has grown, mainly due to "political correctness". An NCO should never have to worry about his career or his next evaluation just for doing his job. I think it is up the senior NCO's to step up to the plate and make sure that doesn't happen and they do have the power to do that. NCO's need to focus on being leaders and leave the politics to the officers. That being said, if NCO's at the squad, section, and platoon levels are doing their jobs, they will never have to worry about someone else correcting their troops.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 3 at 2013 9:15 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 03 Nov 2013 09:15:16 -0500

I say no and yes. No because of the backlash we receive from higher. Yes, but the newer "kids" in the Army are babies now and cry about every little amount of discipline or consequence handed out. And the NCOs at TRADOC posts are NOT ALOUD to correct the "kids" in training, only the cadre are aloud to.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 3 at 2013 9:20 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 03 Nov 2013 09:20:51 -0500

I try to make every correction I see but now you have soldiers with the "your not my NCO" mentality. Then you run into joes with earrings in or females with out of reg nails and hair and you go to make the correction and then you see senior NCO's and full bird colons doing the same thing. I try my best to make corrections but also not try to be a hypocrite. If you have ever been to Fort Bragg coscom you would know exactly what I mean

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 3 at 2013 9:28 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 03 Nov 2013 09:28:08 -0500

I am currently at Benning also and I don't think they do. I am a prior service SSG but I have to say this is a reflection of the base and unit. If a soldier was a soup sandwich he would know better then to walk down Ardennes at Fort Bragg due the quality of NCOs. I haven't see it but I think this would be the same at units like Ranger Bat. But many units don't care and the GWOT has resulted in the stressing of being a "good field soldier" whether than being a "Good Soldier." I can't stand this. I miss the day when people took pride when wearing Class A's and didn't see it as a burden. When proud in the Unit/uniform goes out the window many other things are following right behind it. As an officer I see many things that are wrong but as an officer I feel that it is not my place to correct such things. This is the NCO's job. Still I will correct other officers in a heart beat. I have earned the nick name of 2LT Staff Sargeant.

Response by SFC Gary Fox made Nov 3 at 2013 11:17 AM

SFC Gary Fox — Sun, 03 Nov 2013 11:17:32 -0500

I remember having lunch with my BN CMDR in Balad, Iraq. He pointed out behind me and to my left a COL wearing a tab saying, "Infidel" over his unit patch. I walked up to him and very professionally told him it wasn't authorized. He told me he was making a statement. I told him he was setting a bad example for the troops. He then told me he had been wearing it for six weeks and I was the first NCO to tell him he should remove it. He still didn't take it off.

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made Nov 3 at 2013 11:32 AM

SSG (ret) William Martin — Sun, 03 Nov 2013 11:32:20 -0500

As an NCO and Military Police officer I make on the spot corrections all the time regardless of rank or status.

Response by SSgt Layne Landis made Nov 3 at 2013 11:32 AM

SSgt Layne Landis — Sun, 03 Nov 2013 11:32:29 -0500

NCO's are supposed to be the best. We should also pay it forward and help others. yes If I saw something I offered a polite correction and if the airman came back with an attitude like he they were not in my chain of command. I would remind them I still outranked them and really let them have it.

It does not matter which service you are in if an E-5 tells a lawful order to an E-3 then the E-3 has to listen and follow the order.

Response by SSG(P) Vanessa Walters made Nov 3 at 2013 12:42 PM

SSG(P) Vanessa Walters — Sun, 03 Nov 2013 12:42:07 -0500

It is all too common that no one is correcting ANYONE. I make an attempt about 98% of the time. AR 670-1 is a particular pet peeve of mine. I actually got into it with my platoon leader in the first few months of being here about uniform standards, I.e. Hands in pockets or not closing cargo pockets. He said and I quote " I became an officer so I COULD put my hands in my pockets" to imply that officers are above regulations and policies. We had a nice long conversation. I was in the room with my PSG and multiple NCOs. Who had my back? NO ONE. Fort Story has become the ultimate SUBSTANDARD. And I thought Graf was bad...

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 3 at 2013 1:05 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 03 Nov 2013 13:05:51 -0500

1SG Dimico,

I think the consensus appears to be fairly one sided: it just isn't happening. Don't get me wrong, there are a few that do it, but they seem to be spread so thin that it makes almost no difference at all.

I don't understand where this mentality came from, or why, but another one of the NCO comments here seems to have identified one of the main culprits: NCOs want to be friends and not leaders.

We also have a major problem with our [so called] leaders being the worst offenders, when it comes to the regulations commonly corrected on-the-spot. The bottom line is, it is ALWAYS worth your time. Leading Soldiers is what we are here to do. I just don't know why it seems to be so hard to step up and actually do it.

Response by MSG Tim Waychoff made Nov 3 at 2013 2:11 PM

MSG Tim Waychoff — Sun, 03 Nov 2013 14:11:34 -0500

NCOs DO make on the spot corrections, but many of them stop after doing so repeatedly seems to have no impact or support. At TRADOC posts, all permanent party members are pretty much briefed - don't even talk to the IET Soldiers, unless the permanent party are cadre members.  Even then, instructors get their hands tied because they aren't PSGs so the only ones that can apparently correct a new Soldier are their PSGs.  This is what the Soldiers are learning.  When they get to their units, that's what they believe - only their immediate supervisors and perhaps their 1SGs can correct them.  It does not stop there though.  I used to have an awesome 1SG (I've had several, really) but he retired rather abruptly.  The reason:  There was a young PFC that got put on extra duty for acting up.  His extra duty included painting some of the landscape timbers around the sidewalks on a Saturday morning.  This was all part of his Company Grade Article 15 punishment.  When he reported for that Saturday morning duty, he decided that he didn't want to paint anything and told the NCO supervising him to "Go f*&$ off" because "he wasn't painting anything."  When the 1SG pushed it forward for a Field Grade Article 15, the COL told the 1SG that he simply needed to relax, because this behavior was not worth ruining the Soldier's young career over. The next day, that 1SG turned in his retirement paperwork. This is a systemic problem.  Soldiers learn this type of behavior in this environment.  It starts in Basic Training, where they do not appear to be learning any level of respect for anyone but themselves.  It is reinforced in AIT where they are allowed to run wild because nobody can touch them, and it creeps out to the units where they become NCOs and teach what they know because there is no support for the NCOs (and Officers - Commissioned and Warrant) who do make the corrections.  You can only beat your head against the wall for so long before you decide that it is too painful to keep going. Basic Training needs to institute a reality check for these recruits.  This is the Army, not the Burger King - things get done the Army way, not their way. NCOs, don't undermine your integrity.  Make those on the spot corrections.  Make those Officers support you.  Make those young Soldiers behave like Soldiers as opposed to acting like civilians in costumes.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 3 at 2013 2:52 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 03 Nov 2013 14:52:06 -0500

not all the time. too many times, NCOs want to be "friends" with Soldiers. they want to be the good guy/girl. also, with Soldiers not getting shown what right is, plus some are getting promoted too early in their carrier, they continue to do ehat they think is right, rather than what regulstions and manuals actually say is right

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 3 at 2013 3:22 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 03 Nov 2013 15:22:13 -0500

Some are, but it seems the same amount are not. There's even been times I've made on the spot uniform corrections to equal rank and below, only to be verbally counseled for 'not staying in my lane'. I had to cite General Military Authority in that specific instance, but I digress. I notice it most with Sergeant E-5 types, especially recently promoted, who don't want to break that bond or friendship they had with a soldier by harping on them when they do the wrong thing. It's the wrong answer, plain and simple. When you put on the stripes it's you're responsibility to enforce the standards. Personal relationships need to stay out of it.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 3 at 2013 11:01 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 03 Nov 2013 23:01:35 -0500

I think in just walking by we become the problem. If we permit the further erosion of ethics then we fail as soldiers, airmen and sailors.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 4 at 2013 5:49 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 04 Nov 2013 05:49:36 -0500

I have seen little on the spot corrections. Although while I was in WLC the Commandant would walk around with a simple deficiency in his uniform to see if anyone would step up and correct him. Although its hard to correct a soldier if NCO's and officers are doing the same thing. Standards are standard, everyone should follow them. Easy as it sounds its not, double standards is so apparent in some aspects its hard to correct soldiers if your superiors are showing a bad example.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 4 at 2013 10:41 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 04 Nov 2013 10:41:52 -0500

I love all the Responses. So I challenge everyone on this feed to go out and make on the spot corrections! To Hell with the leadership that reprimands you! If they say something to you, than nod your head, say roger, and continue to fix the problem! We can't be scared anymore! It's time to fix our Military and it starts with us who have signed up to serve. I applaud all of you out there trying, but don't be afraid to get yelled at or reprimanded. I'll never forget what one of my Squad Leaders said to me as a young Team Leader: "You have to take the Hard Right over the Easy Wrong." I challenge all of you on here to make an on the spot correction next time you see it. Lets take back our Military!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 4 at 2013 3:32 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 04 Nov 2013 15:32:22 -0500

To caveat to most of the responses read here...If you have an opportunity to read TRADOC Reg 350-6 you will see where I stand. I basically have no foothold as a TRADOC Instructor. If five of my own peers supported me and two trainees/warriors officially complain about trainee abuse or otherwise I am held to the fire without question. I am guilty till presumed innocent. It is not the same for every NCO here in this forum some NCOs have relaxed working environments; others have very stressfull ones and even there are those have in the middle tough and easy alike days. All I am saying without creating an argument is that when you work under a microscope with the history recently the NCO and Officer Corps. at senior eschelon has taken a hit and we all know how that works crap rolls down hill pleaseantly put....so I will stay within my blinders do what I can control and avoid unecessary conflict. I am not failing a Soldier for not correcting a Soldier I am maintaining what little i have left of a military career so I dont destroy my own families well-being.

Response by TSgt Eric Garcia made Nov 4 at 2013 6:57 PM

TSgt Eric Garcia — Mon, 04 Nov 2013 18:57:50 -0500

If, we as NCO's walk by, we are the problem. It is our jobs as current and former NCO's to correct problems

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 5 at 2013 3:52 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 05 Nov 2013 03:52:48 -0500

1SG, I have been reading this particular question for a while now on my smart phone. now that I am in front of a computer I had to put in on this discussion. First off a lot of these comments are right on the money about Leaders wanting to be friends and people worried about kick back from senor leaders. One issue I am seeing is the caliber of junior leaders we have is not what it needs to be. I have received the same feed back that other on here stated. Fellow NCOs thinking you are taking things to serious and its not that dig of a deal. When really as NCOs making those corrections and ensuring the rules and standards are followed is the biggest deal.

I would like to share a very disheartening story about this with you. When I attended ALC I left my home station excited that I was going to go spend some time with high speed, cream of the crop NCOs and learn some valuable skills. you know get away from those fresh out of AIT privates that hate the Army. Second day there we are in formation getting ready to salute the flag. Company 1sg calls us to attention and one of the E5(P) is talking to another E5 at the position of attention. An E7 SGL behind the formation says " oh here he goes again acting like he is all that". It blew my mind that an E5(P) at ALC would have that sort of attitude toward being corrected on such a basic part of Army life.

I think one of the big issues is that we promoted so many people to fast and now have and NCO corps full of privates that shouldn't have strips at all. It use to be that NCOs were battle buddies that took care of each other. Now a days I feel like the guy next to me wouldn't back me up if a group of Soldiers were kicking my @#$.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 5 at 2013 8:58 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 05 Nov 2013 08:58:20 -0500

Officers can be just as guilty of becoming complacent to save time and the headache. There have been many times where I walk by a junior enlisted soldier, even make eye contact, and that Soldier looks like a deer in headlights. I should make him/her render the proper custom and courtesy with a simple salute and greeting of the day. But, I generally just walk by and maybe mutter, "missed that one."

Response by SSG Zachery Mitchell made Nov 5 at 2013 7:07 PM

SSG Zachery Mitchell — Tue, 05 Nov 2013 19:07:35 -0500

In my opinion there is not near enough NCOs making on the spot corrections. If I see a Soldier with a messed up uniform or doing something that violates Army policy or unit standard I am going to stop them and let them know what they are doing wrong and how they can fix it. I have seen too many NCOs being too "buddy buddy" with their Soldiers and feel this is a large reason why they are lacking in on the spot corrections.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 6 at 2013 4:40 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 06 Nov 2013 16:40:25 -0500

I have been in for thirteen years. I came in expecting to be corrected until I got it right. With that said, we have a new generation of Soldiers who believe they can do no wrong. This is not true of all of them, but true for most. Most CAN NOT handle constructive critisizm well. I found that if I pull them to the side away from their peers to make minor corrections I get good responses. I let them know in a nice way first, then firmly a second time. The third time I councel, and pursue other actions as needed. I will not yell at or degrade a Soldier. However, I will assure them that I am in charge, and they will conform, or they will have consequences. Fortunately I have not ever had to go past the counceling stage. I feel as though a grown man/woman deserves the right to be treated as such.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 7 at 2013 9:32 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 07 Nov 2013 09:32:32 -0500

1SG, In my short time in the Army, I have really never been corrected by an NCO except for during IET. Nor have I seen others be corrected by NCOs.

Response by Cpl Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 7 at 2013 9:33 AM

Cpl Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 07 Nov 2013 09:33:52 -0500

I have to bring up a point that has been brought up to me several times before. In some cases, I'm sure there are plenty of NCO's correcting subordinates. However, we have a smarter military than we used to, and due to this fact, many Marines, Soldiers, Airmen, and Sailors all realize... paperwork is just paperwork. It means nothing, it does not affect them. What does a page 11 entry, 6105, NJP mean to anyone outside of the military? Nothing... Many of the people needing corrections are first time enlistees, and many of those first term enlistees, have plans to get out and know, nothing will follow them but a honorable discharge and an experience of a lifetime. The military is not what it used to be, it has become a paperwork infested, and there is no end in sight.

Response by CSM Stuart C. O'Black made Nov 13 at 2013 8:26 PM

CSM Stuart C. O'Black — Wed, 13 Nov 2013 20:26:17 -0500

Not nearly enough as they should. I often hear comments stating I would never get anywhere and spend my day making correction getting from point A to point B. The is very discouraging. The biggest error is the fact that many NCOs don't make corrections because they are not their Soldiers. We have to get in the mind set they are all our Soldier regardless of the unit. Our ACUs say US ARMY - period! A simple statement in passing without going over the top can make a huge impact if done correctly.

I just stop and look at them a ask a simple question: Are you a professional and proud to be in the Army? They always say yes then I point out the error - very humbling for some.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 14 at 2013 7:15 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 14 Nov 2013 19:15:47 -0500

So many great responses. Personally, I try my best to make the corrections. More often than not though, when it comes to appearance standards, I'll observe a soldier that is out of regulation but is accompanied by NCOs that outrank me. So, the choices I face are: Do I stop all of them and correct the soldier and potentially get yelled at? Do I tell the NCOs that their soldier is wrong and possibly get yelled at? Do I tell the NCOs that they are wrong for allowing it and then also correct the soldier? I'm not afraid to say anything but the question still remains, "Is it worth my time?" Yes, it is. Too often we hear that we need to get back to the standards. Well, when are we going to start? "Little" things such as on the spot corrections are a great place to begin to get back to the standard. I had difficulty correcting soldiers when I was a CPL but, I continued to do it and it helped me keep myself squared away and it helped me to stop being apprehensive about approaching a soldier/peer/superior. However, tact is key when it comes to peers and superiors, I believe that goes without saying. I still continue to get told to mind my own business. But, I'll watch that superior, who brushed me off, walk away and then correct themselves a few steps down the road. It makes me feel good to know that I am able to enforce the standards and hope that it'll influence others to do the same.

Response by LTC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 17 at 2013 1:09 PM

LTC(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 17 Nov 2013 13:09:54 -0500

Not as many NCOs are making on the spot corrections as they should. Yet, I'm particularly proud of one NCO, E6, that immediately after my assumption of command; he came up to me and said: Sir, we need to fix your hat. There were about 90 NCOs there; he was the only one to step up. I'm pretty sure those that don't make the correction, regardless of rank, will criticize the "new boss" for having a crooked hat...

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 17 at 2013 2:01 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 17 Nov 2013 14:01:44 -0500

Not at all. If they were, there would be no need for the "courtesy patrol" being on a lot of installations.

I find it an insult, as I am an NCO who believes if you are wrong, you are wrong. I don't care if you are a CSM or a COL, I will tell you if you are jacked up.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 20 at 2013 1:52 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 20 Nov 2013 01:52:47 -0500

No, we're not, and I say WE because I am guilty of it. You get tired of your peers shrugging stuff off or looking at you as the "mean one" or "THE Bitch", you see Soldiers walking around looking like soup sandwiches with their NCO right next to them looking squared away as can be and you wonder "How?!". I've been doing some soul searching as an NCO recently because I know quitting is not an option and I have to find a way to motivate myself and get back to the basics.

Response by SGT Christopher Camacho made Nov 20 at 2013 5:02 PM

SGT Christopher Camacho — Wed, 20 Nov 2013 17:02:12 -0500

Are NCOs making on the spot corrections?

Yes we are. This is not to say there aren't moments where a Soldier isn't corrected on the spot - but it's far from a failure on the NCO Corps. I find the theme of answers on this thread extremely disheartening and feel there's a bigger issue at hand than the one we're discussing.

Skimming through all the answers here, it seems many (if not all) responses toe on the line of 'No! NCOs are not making on the spot corrections. They want to be friends. They want to be politically correct. Except for me. I seem to be the only one who does the right thing.'

What is with the 'beating my own chest, highlighting myself' attitude in this entire thread. If all of you answer with a resounding 'No' to this question, yet claim you, yourself are making the OTS corrections - doesn't this make you all liars? I'm not calling you liars, but I'm trying to convey my perspective & opinion.

Almost every poster claims they do make the OTS corrections and others don't. If you're witnessing your fellow NCO's lack of action to make the OTS correction, does this not mean you're guilty of the same due to your lack of action to correct the NCO? It just seems almost hypocritical to claim something isn't happening while, in the same breath, saying that you're doing said thing.

One of the claims is that NCOs don't make the OTS corrections because they'd rather be friends than leaders to their Soldiers. What's wrong with being a friend to a subordinate? Obviously, there are some potential downsides to this; but for every negative, there's a positive. Is it too hard to believe that one would be more willing to listen to/adhere to a boss/supervisor/leader that they also consider a friend?

Truth be told, I don't think any of you are liars. I think there's truth to your responses... with maybe a little hyperbole? If all the answers share the same theme, there's obviously an issue that needs addressing. So the question is - how do we 'fix' this problem? Well, we influence a change in culture. We're all leaders, so we know it's not going to happen overnight.

My suggestion to fixing the problem is focusing less on 'No, NCOs aren't correcting Soldiers... but *I* am.' to focusing more on, 'Maybe every NCO isn't making on the spot corrections, but I've been encouraging my peers to start doing so.'

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 20 at 2013 9:34 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 20 Nov 2013 21:34:32 -0500

Sometime's yes I walk by and dismiss small things. Absolutely not the right answer, but we are all rushed either million and one taskings. I see it more now since deployments are slowly going away, I know for myself I make quite a few on the spot corrections. Especially at the gym or by the barracks, Soldiers get attitudes about the corrections and say things underneath their breath. Either way we need to do a better job policing up ourselves and the many Soliders around us and make time for those corrections.

Response by SFC Gary Fox made Nov 21 at 2013 10:39 AM

SFC Gary Fox — Thu, 21 Nov 2013 10:39:17 -0500

In 2005, I was reclassing to an MI MOS at Ft. Huachuca. I was the only NCO in my class as the others were all there from BCT. Even though I was a SFC, I was told I could not make on the spot corrections on those Soldiers in my class. I was also told the instructors could not either. If we saw something wrong, we were to take it to their Drill Sergeant. These Soldiers also knew we could not do anything.

When these Soldiers started addressing me as "Hey man," while standing with their hands in their pockets, I had enough. I went to their Drill who was a SSG and told him I was now going to start holding him accountable for his Soldiers actions and lack of military bearing. The next day, these Soldiers starting standing at parade rest and addressing me by my rank.

At Ft. Gordon, we were told we could not make on the spot corrections on Soldiers attending AIT at the Signal School. We were told doing so could result in disciplinary action against us. My ACE Chief (LTC), a Warrant Officer, and I had lunch with some of our Soldiers one day at a dining facility that AIT students also used. As we departed, some of my Soldiers stopped me to ask some questions. I told the LTC and WO I would meet them back at the SCIF. When I departed, the two officers were walking together approximately 100 meters ahead of me. I watched an AIT Soldier walking towards them begin to look at the ground as he approached them. He walked by them without rendering a salute. The officers later told me they didn't notice him as they were engrossed in a conversation.

When that Soldier met me, I asked him why he didn't salute the officers. He said he didn't see them. I told him he was to run as fast as he could in their direction, pass them, stop do an about face, walk up to them, salute and apologize for not saluting them earlier or I would take him to his 1SG to explain his lack of military bearing. He did as instructed.

My point is, right is right and wrong is wrong. Don't let the fear of repercussions for doing the right thing intimidate you from making on the spot corrections.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 25 at 2013 11:47 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 25 Nov 2013 11:47:42 -0500

NCO's are the enforcers of standards.. How can I as a junior NCO be effective at enforcing standards when I have seen many senior NCO's not following set standards. Walking and talking on their cell phone for example. If I were a PVT and a SGT corrected me for something that I saw a SFC doing, their words would go in one ear and out the other. I think the NCO corp as a whole needs to tighten the shot group.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 25 at 2013 12:37 PM

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 25 Nov 2013 12:37:14 -0500

1SG Dimico, I will respond before reading anyone else's response. I think on the spot corrections are necessary but I think that if you are going to correct someone you should be correct too.

I have struggled with this for two reasons and have regretted these reasons.

1. I am a Chaplain Assistant and I didn't want Soldiers thinking any less of me because I am the person that they should come to when they need help and I didn't want them to be afraid to do that ( I have only two way Harsh or soft) I need to work on that as an NCO

2. I have no Soldiers so I even as an NCO didn't feel worthy to correct someone. I like I mentioned before didn't always feel I was correct so I didn't feel I could correct them.

When I would correct someone that would come back with rgr sarge and move on. I would hope they would correct their selves but they wouldn't on the spot. When I get corrected I thank the person and correct and then move on. I look forward to hear what other Leaders have to say.....Thank you for making me think.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 25 at 2013 12:45 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 25 Nov 2013 12:45:14 -0500

1SG,

If it's a superior making the correction Roger is my response. If it's a subordinate I thank him or her for squaring me away. Sometimes you got to swallow your pride.

Response by SFC Christopher Walker, MAOM, DSL made Nov 26 at 2013 8:52 AM

SFC Christopher Walker, MAOM, DSL — Tue, 26 Nov 2013 08:52:39 -0500

Not all of them. Some NCOs don’t like conflict. I don’t care
what the rank of the other person is. If you use tact and quote the regulation
when doing on the spot corrections, that individual will make the correction
right then. Believe it or not, but most corrections are simple accidents made
the individual. NCOs set and enforce standards. Get to it!

Response by SSG V. Michelle Woods made Dec 9 at 2013 6:18 PM

SSG V. Michelle Woods — Mon, 09 Dec 2013 18:18:43 -0500

Not sure if it has been said already but from my short time in the Army I've concluded thus far that NCOs don't make corrections for several reasons. One being...WE DON'T KNOW WHAT IS RIGHT OR WRONG ANYMORE!!! It's ridiculous with all these MILPER messages, ALARACTs, "policy letters" etc.

I had one NCO (woman) tell me a PVT corrected her for wearing her hair in a ponytail during PT. She told that PVT that in her BDE her commander wrote a policy letter authorizing it. WTH??!! I want to wear my hair in a ponytail too but that's not the point. Point is...the ARs are trumped by anything and everything!

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 11 at 2013 12:06 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 11 Dec 2013 00:06:45 -0500

Now you can do almost anything and the worst thing thats gonna happen is 5 push-ups and maybe a counseling. E-4 and below call EO, hazing all the good stuff because they know they can and they are absolutely abusing it to the max.

NCOs wanna help soldiers but they are not wiling to get in trouble them selves for the small things that the joe is gonna complain about and spin the whole thing around on the NCO.

Response by SGT Aja Johnson made Dec 11 at 2013 12:52 AM

SGT Aja Johnson — Wed, 11 Dec 2013 00:52:55 -0500

No we are not. I am a baby NCO just newly promoted. I have been finding it hard to correct soldiers who were once my peers. I haven't really had to but I think about it all the time. As a Specialist I noticed NCO's letting a lot of things go. Soldiers that used to be my peers like to poke fun and stand at parade rest sarcastically. I'm letting them get used to the idea, but I dont plan on being a push over once the realization kicks in. It will be much easier when I PCS and end up at a unit where I dont know anyone.

My NCOIC in my shop is all about corrections, it's easy for me to know the regulations when he's the one mentoring me. He is honestly the only SNCO I have seen correcting soldiers, but that could also be because I am around him often. He does a lot of correcting in jest, at least around his Engineers who are all NCOs, but he still makes the correction.

Response by SSG Kevin McCulley made Dec 11 at 2013 5:55 PM

SSG Kevin McCulley — Wed, 11 Dec 2013 17:55:35 -0500

I know from my perspective, I am hesitant sometimes because I don't know if the officers have my back. IF the private gets mouthy when I make a correction (and I'm never rude about it unless it is sheer stupidity) and it turns ugly, I've seen and experienced officers saying "oh lay off would ya" or the big H-word gets thrown around (hazing). At that point the private feels they can do what they want and the NCO Corps gets taken down another notch. In the modern army, I think the power dynamic has shifted to the Jr. Enlisted. They know they can destroy your career with a whisper and as of late, the officers believe them over you. I've personally had my authority destroyed by a field grade officer when I was going to do corrective training with my private for going direct with the BDE CSM with a personal problem, not an Open Door type issue. She interacted with senior leadership on a daily basis and started to think she was more than a PFC. Aforementioned CSM called me to the office, read me the riot act, and told me to square that troop away on the NCO support chain. I told the troop to go change into PTs (I was already in PTs) and my OIC walked over and said, "You're not doing that..." I wasn't even permitted to assign an essay. I was told "you're not in an infantry battalion anymore." I didn't know you had to be in a line battalion to enforce standards. Henceforth every time I told that troop to do something she didn't like all I heard was: "Well, let's see what MAJ So and so says about that." So the choice sometimes seems: Be an NCO and possibly damage your career or walk on by. I think many NCOs are hesitant because of the officer factor and justifiably so.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 11 at 2013 8:06 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 11 Dec 2013 20:06:24 -0500

After reading all these responses - I think the main problem is those NCO's, SNCO's, Warrant Officer's or Commissioned Officer's that aren't making spot corrections is because they never read their particular 'creed' or they have forgotten what it says.

When I was still in and had an actual office - I had the following 'creeds' where I would see them everyday anytime I was actually in there and anyone that came into the office would see them: NCO Creed, SNCO Creed, Security Forces Creed and the Marine NCO Creed (Once a Marine always a Marine).

Seeing those words everyday helped to remind me daily of my purpose and responsibilities as an NCO and later as a SNCO in regards to those I came into contact with.

We are all 'charged' with those responsibilities outlined in our particular creeds - for the most part they complement each other. Those that choose not to live their military life by those words should 'in my opinion' not be in the rank they hold or the uniform for that matter.

Response by SGM Jerry Finin made Dec 12 at 2013 1:13 AM

SGM Jerry Finin — Thu, 12 Dec 2013 01:13:24 -0500

I hope that isn't happening because it is an implied task of ours to make on spot corrections.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 18 at 2013 12:41 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 18 Dec 2013 12:41:38 -0500

I will always correct a Soldier using tact no matter what the rank is. The thing that gets me is the excuses they come up with. Like a corporal saying he didn't know we weren't authorized to place our hands in our pockets. Or a Specialist saying his 1SG gave him the ok to were PTs in walmart at 2000, like it was briefed during a safety briefing. I encourage my Soldiers in my platoon to correct me if I'm wrong as well as any Soldier as long as they are tactful. If an NCO is willing to walk past a deficiency, it means he/she themselves are messed up or doing something wrong, or they're just in the Army to collect a paycheck.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 23 at 2013 3:56 PM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 23 Dec 2013 15:56:22 -0500

I make on the spot corrections all the time. That being said, I'm not an A**hole when I do it. I explain to the Soldier that they are clearly out of "you name it regulation" and I tell them how to fix it. I read a post where an NCO was worried about making corrections. If you handle it in a professional manner there could be no reason that a Soldier, male or female, could cite you for EO. I believe a lot of NCOs fear Soldiers, don't. One of our jobs is to make sure that we're teaching our young Soldiers right from wrong which equates to enforcing standards.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 23 at 2013 5:20 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 23 Dec 2013 17:20:05 -0500

1SG-I believe this issue begins at the top. An organization's CSM must set the example. I've seen many CSMs that set the example and allow on the spot corrections.

These not only are corrections to junior Soldiers but to NCOs as well. I made an on the spot correction of a junior NCO who was in uniform and took a sip of his drink while walking. This junior NCO came back to me, some time later and expressed he researched my correction but couldn't find it in any regulation. I explained to him that it falls under good order and military discipline. The NCO looked a little perplexed about why I would correct him. I informed him that if he was willing to not maintain good order and military discipline then we should look further into what else the NCO is doing. Mind you this NCO was corrected many times for many different issues. Some of them include pant legs being too long, not wearing security badges within a SCIF. I counseled this NCO for my on the spot corrections and he was in utter disbelief. Now that I have this NCO on my radar, I continue to look for him to ensure he is doing the right thing.

It all begins with each NCO to uphold the standard and regulations set forth.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 26 at 2013 7:25 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 26 Dec 2013 19:25:17 -0500

Personally, I do make on the spot corrections, but others just simply don't care. Now if a NCO makes an on the spot correction, please know the regulation and quoted. When I was in Benning going to the mall or Walmart was crazy because I was always force to leave my family to make corrections. Soldiers sagging in ACUs or wearing Beats headphones in ASUs. It was crazy ,but the crazy part when they ask you WHO ARE YOU and what is you rank.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 29 at 2013 7:01 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 29 Dec 2013 19:01:12 -0500

I will not walk past a correction that needs to be made no matter rank. On occasions if my buddies walk past it I will ask them why or if I am walking with a SGT I will send them over there to reinforce the standard of 'setting the standard' as we are supposed to do. I am disappointed that way too often I see NCOs walking past a correction but then if you pay attention to them they are usually messed up and need a quick fix too.

Response by 1SG Alan Bailey made Jan 7 at 2014 2:01 PM

1SG Alan Bailey — Tue, 07 Jan 2014 14:01:09 -0500

"STANDARDS, BECAUSE WE KNOW WHAT RIGHT LOOKS LIKE", my mentor and old 1Sg would say this all the time and had it cut in a board that hung behind his desk. He always said, as NCOs it is our job to enforce standards not make them. Making on sthe spot corrections is easy as long as you know what you are talking about. Than all about how you say it, I have listen to alot of NCOs make corrections and use alot of curse words to do it, this does two things, shows your lack of vocabulary and that they don't know all the military standards. Politcally Correctness, is a excuse, and I blame society for it. We have kids coming up where everyone gets a trophy, everyone is a winner this cause the old timers the headaches, but do the right thing and you won't have to worry about EO/IG or SHARP.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 7 at 2014 2:20 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 07 Jan 2014 14:20:26 -0500

As long as it is with tact, I have no issue getting corrected on a uniform violation. I see some NCO's are sometimes arid to approach even their Soldiers, and forget their general military authority.

Response by SFC John Brooks made Jan 7 at 2014 3:50 PM

SFC John Brooks — Tue, 07 Jan 2014 15:50:56 -0500

I've been the corrector and the corrected. A big part of our job as NCOs is to enforce standards. I always point out, it's nothing personal, it's the standard and it has to be maintained. What gets under my skin isn't when I have to make a correction, it's when I know that other NCOs just walked by and ignored something that they couldn't possibly have missed. I've seen this more than I care to think about in the Pentagon, and the general issue is that you don't know who someone might work for so it may not be worth the backlash. In my opinion, right is right and if you are going to run back to your 2 star and tattle because I pointed out you were doing the wrong thing in uniform, I have a hurt feelings report you can fill out. I wasn't promoted to hide behind my stripes when things look complicated, I was promoted to represent them.

Response by SGT Benjamin Dutill made Jan 10 at 2014 1:41 PM

SGT Benjamin Dutill — Fri, 10 Jan 2014 13:41:24 -0500

As far as for me, I was brought up on a very disciplined military installation (Fort Hood) and I would always see on the spot corrections and I have made a few dozen myself. Now I am stationed at Fort Leavenworth and this post is way more relaxed than what I am used to. It was a very hard transition for me (going from disciplined to soft).. What erks me is that when I correct another NCO they get butthurt and they tell me "show me the regulation".. Why should I have to show them the regulation when I know what it states in the regulation. For example: a few months back I noticed and NCO wearing her gaterneck with the IPFU and I told her that she had to remove it becuse it's not stated in AR 670-1 that you are authorized to wear that with the IPFU. There is a list that which states what can and cannot be worn and nowhere did I see the gaterneck. She proceeded to give me an attitude with the 1SG in front of me and the 1SG didn't do or say anything. No one else was wearing their gaterneck, why should she be the only one. The Army has gotten very soft and bugs me knowing that some NCOs don't care and if I was a 1SG or SGM, I would be handing out Article 15s like candy.

Response by MSG Martinis Butler made Jan 26 at 2014 2:54 AM

MSG Martinis Butler — Sun, 26 Jan 2014 02:54:45 -0500

I strongly believe that NCOs are making the on the spot corrections. Many NCOs take pride in what they do. There are a few good NCOs out there im sure you would agree.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 28 at 2014 4:54 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 28 Jan 2014 16:54:10 -0500

1SG there are definitely NCO's out their making on the spot corrections. I think a big problem is that we as a corp are not. I was recently in an organization where I was constantly correcting soldiers one day and the next day they were back doing the same things. The problem was that I would make a correction on a soldier but then that same soldier would walk by a SSG, or SFC who wouldn't say anything to them. This becomes exhausting very quickly and discourages NCO's from making corrections.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 1 at 2014 9:25 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 01 Feb 2014 09:25:06 -0500

1SG,

I am amazed by the amount of NCOs who say they are not making on the spot corrections. How hard is it to tell someone to take their hands out of their pockets? To fix their cargo pocket? To clean their boots? If the NCOs of our ranks think that they are going to get an EO or SHARP complaint when they make on the spot corrections, then they do not understand the policies. I am the EO Rep for my unit and have heard many complaints like this, but they do not constitute EO complaints. You are not getting corrected because of your race, color, gender, religion, national origin, you are getting corrected because you were wrong. The same applies for SHARP. We as NCOs need to step our game up to ensure that the Army of tomorrow is set up for success; we do that by instilling the values in our Soldiers, and ensuring they have the discipline to stick to those values. On the spot corrections are a part of this. Do not be afraid because if you are doing the right thing you have nothing to worry about.

Response by SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 10 at 2014 3:22 AM

SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 10 Feb 2014 03:22:00 -0500

1SG I will stop anyone I see that needs a quick refresher on the standards, If I am stopped because I need correcting I fix what's wrong and thank the person making the correction. I have experimented with my Soldiers and junior NCOs to see if they would make a correction to me for being out of regs. 99% of the time no one will say a thing. When I pull them together and ask why mostly I get I didn't think it was that big of a deal.

I think that's where we're lacking in the enforcement of standards people think "it's not that big of a deal" and little by little our standards and discipline are eroding because all the little things that aren't that big of a deal continue to grow within the ranks.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 10 at 2014 4:26 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 10 Feb 2014 04:26:59 -0500

My ALC Written Assignment was titled "The Broken Backbone", for many reasons, but this one mainly. We as an NCO Corps have become broken and weak; many NCO's don't know what the actual standard or regulation is, they just cite off barracks lawyer hearsay...and that's when they do correct something.

When I was in Afghanistan, I stopped a Sergeant who had just passed by a major violation of standards. I asked him why he had let that person walk by (I had called said Soldier over to wait for me to finish talking to the young NCO) and his response...I kid you not was "MP's are supposed to enforce standards, that's what my section NCOIC says." I thought I was going to have an aneurysm.

We're promoting people, not based off of demonstrated potential, but envisioned potential of someone who likes them. We are promoting people who are too immature to lead themselves to the Chow Hall, let alone soldiers into combat.

It frustrates me, and saddens me, that I have to correct fellow NCO's more than I have to correct lower enlisted. If we policed ourselves, we'd see a trend where discipline would be common place.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 10 at 2014 7:41 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 10 Feb 2014 07:41:00 -0500

Great post!

I admit I've slacked off a bit. I've had some "kickback" in my days. But I'll correct that.

I especially hate it when I correct someone in from of another or their NCO.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 16 at 2014 9:30 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 16 Feb 2014 21:30:29 -0500

Honestly we have a small percentage of NCOs that really take pride in making on the soot corrections. The problem is that the ones that doesn't are harming our military. Maybe not the correct comparison but is like a stage 3 cancer that has reached stage 4. We as NCOs are in place to stop it from getting to that stage 4. Every time that we don't correct our Soldiers all we are doing as leaders is killing prospect leaders.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 16 at 2014 9:31 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 16 Feb 2014 21:31:33 -0500

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 29 at 2014 2:23 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 29 Jul 2014 14:23:16 -0400

No they don't. NCOs are not making on the spot corrections. I think it comes from a lack of discipline, and a lack of pride. Soldiers today see the Army as a 9-5, all they have to do is make it to the end of the the day and they can hang up their patrol caps for the night. NCOs strut around like they're back on the block being buddy buddy with their Soldier afraid that if he discipline their Soldier they'll loose that friendship. NCOs today are not the backbone of the Army as it once was because we do not enforce the standards, we do not take pride of being a Soldier, we lack the disciple to do what is right. I still make on the spot corrections to whom ever but i do it tactfully. Some do correct themselves and others blow me off. The point is we are NCOs and regardless of how we feel about it, it is our duty to enforce the standards on and off work.

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Aug 17 at 2014 3:23 AM

SFC Mark Merino — Sun, 17 Aug 2014 03:23:55 -0400

I liked how we had to do it in ANCOC/ALC. It was required!

Response by SSG Kevin McCulley made Aug 18 at 2014 12:37 PM

SSG Kevin McCulley — Mon, 18 Aug 2014 12:37:00 -0400

It comes down to the feeling by NCOs that if a E2 backtalks them on the correction and stronger measures are required, their company commander will not support them because it will be considered hazing or toxic leadership. Good order and dicipline is not worth their OER.

Response by MSG Sommer Brown made Aug 19 at 2014 9:58 AM

MSG Sommer Brown — Tue, 19 Aug 2014 09:58:57 -0400

I do agree that we as leaders should set the example and correct those who are overlook these needed correction. At times however, it is not a proper setting to do so, and must be addressed at a more appropriate time. If a NCO has a SM that needs to be corrected and you observe them not correcting that SM. It might be better to catch the SM and correct them and then find the NCO and correct the NCO; in this matter you are not undermining that NCO in front of their SM. Now, if it is repeat offenders then paperwork needs to be done and I would not be so nice next go around. Sometimes, the NCO has spoken to the SM about the correction and the SM has not had enough time to correct it prior to you seeing them. I tend to try and pull everyone off to the side for a on the spot correction unless it is a safety issue and then I correct immediately. How many of you correct soldiers for inappropriate language, gossiping about other soldiers, spreading rumors, constantly on their phones during duty hours, disappearing, walking past trash on the ground, not to mention the more obvious appearance and codes of conduct corrects? I honestly correct more NCOs than anything else and it is sad.

Response by MSG Scott McBride made Jan 21 at 2015 11:01 PM

MSG Scott McBride — Wed, 21 Jan 2015 23:01:16 -0500

Brother, great topic and great responses. Bottom line is this, no excuses, Just results. After more than a decade of war I believe that discipline has declined because we have all been intimate with our peers, subordinates and superiors more than we should have and therefore succumb to being "buddy" vice a leader. Being stuck on a remote FOB numerous times you get to know your unit very well, too well in many cases. I saw this same thing when I arrived to my first unit just after Desert Storm. It's time for our units and leaders to get back basics and if that means makimg an example of someone, then so be it. Discipline is the foundation of our Military and we must enforce it.

Response by SPC Robert Dickey made Jan 22 at 2015 12:04 AM

SPC Robert Dickey — Thu, 22 Jan 2015 00:04:12 -0500

When I got out of the military in 2013 a majority of the NCO's were not making correct on the spot corrections. Whether they lacked the fortitude to do so, the knowledge to spot it, or the desire to uphold the standards, they just weren't doing it. This topic particularly is one of my favorites because there are different categories within it.

1. Don't scuff up a soldier, make an example out of a soldier for something he didn't know was wrong. Save that for the soldier who knows something is wrong and still decides to do it anyway. It is a lot more effective to pull a soldier to the side and be informative than to show them how much of a bad ass NCO you are.

2. Too many times would I see a Senior NCO doing something blatantly wrong(ie. walking and talking on a cell phone), go and make the on the spot correction, then out of pride, embarrassment or a little bit of both, they tried going off on me. Don't be that Senior NCO. Set the example, and accept it when you are called out on violating regulations regardless of the rank of who is calling you out.

3. Don't be the jacked up NCO doing something wrong, or violating an appearance regulation while correcting someone else. ie. Hey Sergeant Dickey why dont you fix your Ranger Tab its a little slanted and start walking around like a squared away NCO. Oh Thanks SSG US Army, oh wait thats, not your name, your damn name tapes are swapped.

All in all NCO's just aren't what they used to be or what they should be. Do not take offense to this if you are the NCO who upholds the standards and makes on the spot corrections the right way.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 22 at 2015 12:26 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 22 Jan 2015 00:26:02 -0500

No, NCOs rarely make on the spot corrections anymore.
If I ever see an NCO walk on by an infraction, I'll fix it right then and there.