Is Active Duty suicide still considered "willful misconduct" for purposes of benefits (Ref 38 CFR 3.301, 3.032, 3.1n)?

SSG Alleria Stanley — Thu, 09 Jun 2016 09:28:34 -0400

Response by SSG Pete Fleming made Jun 9 at 2016 9:31 AM

SSG Pete Fleming — Thu, 09 Jun 2016 09:31:08 -0400

Good question...

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 9 at 2016 9:34 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 09 Jun 2016 09:34:50 -0400

Interesting, SSG Alleria Stanley would one be charged posthumously? Not meaning to be flippant or disregard the problem of suicide in the military. In most states suicide is a crime where deadly force is authorized to prevent the commission of the act. The whole idea seems odd to me. So bubba is threatening to kill himself which is illegal, so a cop can shoot and kill him to prevent him from killing himself. I don't get it.

Response by CW5 Andrew J. Foreman made Jun 9 at 2016 9:50 AM

CW5 Andrew J. Foreman — Thu, 09 Jun 2016 09:50:18 -0400

Good question when I read the CFR it talks about veteran's benefits "For the purpose of determining entitlement to service-connected and nonservice-connected benefits " The way I see this is that if the suicide attempt is unsuccessful and the service member has life long injuries, they are cannot claim those injuries for benefits. However, if the actually die from a suicide attempt then SLGI would kick in. SGLI is not a veteran's benefit but a policy you pay for. They policy is carried by a civilian company. They only way SGLI could not pay if is the suicide violated the policy. Here is what I found on SGLI payouts "Cause of death is irrelevant for purposes of paying SGLI (see 38 USC Sections 1965 - 1976 and 38 CFR Part 9). So long as you are covered, SGLI will pay your beneficiaries even if your death is the result of DUI or not wearing a seat belt (even suicide is covered). http://www.monterey.army.mil/Legal/wills/SGLIDENY.pdf
However, Dependency Indemnity Compensation (DIC) the 100K payout to dependents for service related death may be denied, because that is a VA benefit. http://benefits.va.gov/COMPENSATION/types-dependency_and_indemnity.asp

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 9 at 2016 9:55 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 09 Jun 2016 09:55:14 -0400

Interesting and informative question, yes. But can I ask WHY you're asking this? This isn't a question that comes to mind at random.

Response by CPO Amb. Terry Earthwind Nichols made Jun 9 at 2016 10:12 AM

CPO Amb. Terry Earthwind Nichols — Thu, 09 Jun 2016 10:12:11 -0400

This very question brings forth 'stigma.' Good or bad. Great question in these days when we as military leaders are keenly aware of suicide in our shipmates. I don't know your regs so addressing them is not in order and they are very valid I'm sure although the person committing suicide don't really care because they have convinced themselves that their families and friends will be better off without them.
I post on Facebook the faces of suicide whenever I see a news item of a suicide showing a picture because I want to show that our shipmates are NO DIFFERENT than anyone else on the outside while the storm of depression and despair rages on the inside. Thank you for this post...

Response by SFC Daniel Faires made Jun 9 at 2016 10:23 AM

SFC Daniel Faires — Thu, 09 Jun 2016 10:23:03 -0400

This question concerns me as is sounds like you have other reasons to ask

Would you be willing to expand on the question a little more

I have dealt with Soldiers family on active duty who have committed suicide

It's a permanent solution to a temporary problem

This exact question came up to a friend and later that soldier who asked did in fact kill himself

See the concern ?

Response by SPC Paul Jennings, J.D. made Jun 9 at 2016 10:33 AM

SPC Paul Jennings, J.D. — Thu, 09 Jun 2016 10:33:51 -0400

Generally no, it is not willful misconduct.

Willful misconduct requires intent on the part of the veteran. Suicide or a bona fide attempt, shows that an individual is of unsound mind. Thus, a veteran who commits suicide can have the prerequisite culpable mindset to act willfully.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 9 at 2016 1:03 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 09 Jun 2016 13:03:52 -0400

No. Once upon a time, suicide would allow SGLI to not pay out. That has been changed.

Response by PO3 Donald Murphy made Jun 9 at 2016 1:11 PM

PO3 Donald Murphy — Thu, 09 Jun 2016 13:11:14 -0400

Knowing the United-f**k-me-states-of-America, I'd be surprised to hear that its not. I mean shit - "gulf war syndrome" is only ****NOW**** being legally accepted by the V.A. What - 25 years later? I honestly wouldn't be surprised.

Response by MSgt Michael Bischoff made Jun 9 at 2016 4:34 PM

MSgt Michael Bischoff — Thu, 09 Jun 2016 16:34:27 -0400

I think they did that so beneficiaries get nothing and if you are not successful (for lack of a better word) the can charge you with a crime once you are better again (damn getting you help!!!)

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 9 at 2016 4:58 PM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 09 Jun 2016 16:58:22 -0400

No it is not a crime under UCMJ and not willful misconduct. SGLI does pay, but it can never cover the true loss the people left behind have to pay everyday. I have a CSM friend whose son died by suicide last October. A wife and two children left behind, the mother, father, and siblings still suffering can never have the future they all should have had. If anyone out there is looking for a sign - here it is -CHOOSE LIFE!

Response by CPT Robert Boshears made Jun 10 at 2016 2:17 PM

CPT Robert Boshears — Fri, 10 Jun 2016 14:17:59 -0400

Brother, you won't benefit much.