Is it ok to conduct an on the spot correction on Soldiers from another unit or Service?

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 17 May 2014 13:08:00 -0400

I was walking down the sidewalk with a Sergeant Major in Afghanistan. He stopped a young Soldier from our unit and told him to put his eye pro on as it is a requirement at all time in Afghanistan. The Soldier said roger SGM, put hi eye pro on and moved out. A few steps later there was another Soldier from another unit and I stopped him made the correction and moved out. The SGM then told me he usually only corrects Soldiers from his unit.

Just wanted to get the opinion on this as I believe it is a huge part of the discipline problem in the Military today. Thanks

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 17 at 2014 1:16 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 17 May 2014 13:16:57 -0400

I clicked "Yes, it is vital to discipline in the military."

However, If I have not educated myself on a sister-service's regulation, I will not try to correct a Soldier/Sailor/Marine on something that may be permitted according to their regs but not according to mine. I must be sure before I correct.

The basic things such as General Orders, leaning on the wall, walking and drinking/chewing/talking on the phone, flashy sunglasses, etc.--Those are pretty much universal for the services.

Response by MSG Wade Huffman made May 17 at 2014 4:50 PM

MSG Wade Huffman — Sat, 17 May 2014 16:50:43 -0400

General military authority applies to all personnel at all times regardless of service, rank, or position. Period.

Response by SSgt John Oldham made May 17 at 2014 7:32 PM

SSgt John Oldham — Sat, 17 May 2014 19:32:27 -0400

While in service, I was careful to make corrections unless blaring. However now that I am out of service and watch my son, climb the ladder of his High School AFROTC unit my opinion has changed. Going to pick him up from a military ball, I observed "kids" aspiring to take up the rolls of military personnel out of uniform, or military items of clothing on their dates or missing completely, needless to say outside AF 23-201. I tried to shake this off but eventually put one kid against the wall and at attention, and then proceeded to explain that as long as he wears any form of the Uniform people have died to protect, he would wear it the right way. I explained that even at his level, he too is an extension of the USAF and the ethos upon which it represents. While my soap box ended with a foul mouthed response from the kid, I explained I had done my duty in the uniform and he would respect what he wears. This conversation was completed in front of his flight commander, and words with his cadet chain of command.

Response by SSgt Gregory Guina made May 17 at 2014 7:44 PM

SSgt Gregory Guina — Sat, 17 May 2014 19:44:26 -0400

I am not going to try and correct someone from another branch except for corpsmen that are attached to a Marine unit.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made May 17 at 2014 7:51 PM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Sat, 17 May 2014 19:51:34 -0400

General military authority is just that, but if you're going to make the correction, you should be aware of the other service's uniform policies.

Response by SPC Matthew Birkinbine made May 17 at 2014 7:54 PM

SPC Matthew Birkinbine — Sat, 17 May 2014 19:54:23 -0400

You better be squared away, yourself before you do it; but an on the spot correction, in my opinion, is never uncalled for. Subordinates should learn the tactic called "Roger" and move on.

Response by CPL Corey Aldridge made May 17 at 2014 9:02 PM

CPL Corey Aldridge — Sat, 17 May 2014 21:02:20 -0400

Yes and I commend you for your actions! You are completely right weather or not it be Army, Navy, Marine, or air Force there is a common denominator that big U.S in front of each and the role each plays in attaining the same goal. Discipline is vital to attaining the goals and mission of each. The uniform that identifies Each branch is the first thing that a civilian or any person sees so Maintaining the respectability and honor of each branch is essential. So if one is aware that a Soldier of Cadet is out of uniform and NOT correct that soldier or cadet you would be remiss in your own duty as a soldier or veteran of the Armed Forces of the United States of Ameerica

Response by SSG V. Michelle Woods made May 17 at 2014 10:15 PM

SSG V. Michelle Woods — Sat, 17 May 2014 22:15:45 -0400

The problem I see here is in the unit SOPs and policy letters. Often enough, a different unit means different standards.

My NCOIC told me when you're wearing a winter IPFU jacket, you're suppose to be wearing your fleece cap and gloves.

After she and I looked into it, we both learned in her prior unit, that was the standard however in my prior unit the IPFU uniform standard adjusted with the weather and the uniform was put out by our 1SG.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made May 17 at 2014 10:20 PM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 17 May 2014 22:20:48 -0400

I know a lot of times we want to impose our own rules on Troops in our sister services, but if you do not know what rules/policies they follow, then how do you know if you are doing the right thing? Spending a lot of time on Air Force Bases, I have been often stopped at night while in uniform and asked where my reflective belt was, well, in the Army, we dont generally were a reflective belt while in uniform just becuase it is dark. Maybe not a great example, but you see my point!

As far as making corrections with Soldiers in other units in your Service, ABSOLUTELY! *caveat* As long as you are making a correction based on Regulations or SOPs that you know covers that particular Soldier (ie: AR 670-1 or a Post SOP). I do not think you should attempt to impose your BN SOPs on a troop from another unit on base just because that Soldier is in your AO.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 18 at 2014 1:47 AM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 18 May 2014 01:47:44 -0400

I say yes, it is vital to discipline in the military. However, for sister services I will have to become familiar on their regulations, but with that being said we may not always know what right looks like but we sure can identify what wrong looks like so I will correct the deficiency. I am stationed at a joint base and I correct airmen all the time and if I am unfamiliar whether the deficiency is right or wrong I find a leader in the Air Force to educate me.

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made May 18 at 2014 2:59 AM

SSG (ret) William Martin — Sun, 18 May 2014 02:59:48 -0400

SFC Hufcut, You did the right thing.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 18 at 2014 3:43 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 18 May 2014 03:43:19 -0400

I once saw a young Airman walking around in his ABUs talking on his cellphone. I waited for about 5 minutes while doing some research on the AFI related to that and while some senior ranking Airman walked right past him. Once I was reasonably comfortable that I was correct I addressed the situation.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made May 18 at 2014 6:58 AM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 18 May 2014 06:58:53 -0400

I'm not going to argue that General Military Regs are something to enforce by any NCO. However, I think it prudent to discover the local SOP's and be aware of the situation prior to stepping into the morass. I spent many, many years TAD/TDY. I can't tell you how many times I was incorrectly "adjusted" by a host of well-meaning NCO's on I quit counting how many military bases across the world. My fave was the Kadena AB NCO that decided that he wanted to instruct my unit enmass because we were traveling in civvies on military aircraft. Additionally, we weren't exactly "up to snuff" on haircuts, each of our ID cards were expired to say nothing of our orders being well worn and probably unreadable. After being arrested and put in the local holding cell - we got our phone call. To say that particular NCO and his CO got the butt chewing of their life from a Navy Admiral in front of us (priceless) is an understatement.

I'm not saying the NCO was wrong in attempting to square us away - but there's often a pretty darn good reason when you see an entire unit looking fairly disheveled and unmilitary in appearance.

Should we square away the loner trying to look cool? I would, but I wouldn't spend my entire morning on it. I have found that simply getting the soldier/marine/sailors/airman's name/rank/ID # in regards a major issue and reporting the situation to their command works well also.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 18 at 2014 8:58 AM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 18 May 2014 08:58:22 -0400

I think it is imperative to do on the spot corrections. As long as you know your regulations and your sister service's regulations, you should do them.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 18 at 2014 9:02 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 18 May 2014 09:02:52 -0400

I've always been told as an NCO If you walk by someone doing the wrong thing (walking and talking on a cell phone, hands inside their pockets etc) and you don't say anything, at that point you just set a new lower standard. Being stationed in a TRADOC unit around newer Soldiers all the time I've seen this first hand. If you let one of them get away with something the next day they are all doing it.

Response by PO1 G. Leslie /Stiltner made May 18 at 2014 9:59 AM

PO1 G. Leslie /Stiltner — Sun, 18 May 2014 09:59:29 -0400

I think that correcting the infraction on the spot is important weather it is your unit or your branch of service.

Response by SFC Walter Mack made May 18 at 2014 2:29 PM

SFC Walter Mack — Sun, 18 May 2014 14:29:47 -0400

I corrected a young Sailor at Ft. Sam Houston for 'sagging' his PT pants. I was informed by an instructor nearby that I could not correct the trainees. My response was of course, "I just did." Then I moved out, and the Sailor pulled up his pants.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 18 at 2014 4:09 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 18 May 2014 16:09:29 -0400

AR 600-20, para 4-4 (1), (2) states that Commanders and leaders in the Army, whether on or off duty or in a leave status, will:
(1) Ensure all military personnel present a neat, soldierly appearance.
(2) Take action consistent with Army regulation in any case where a Soldier’s conduct violates good order and military discipline.

FM 7-22.7 also states that every Soldier has General Military Authority

para 2-24: General military authority is authority extended to all soldiers to take action and act in the absence of a unit leader or other designated authority. It originates in oaths of office, law, rank structure, traditions and regulations. This broad-based authority also allows leaders to take appropriate corrective actions whenever a member of any armed service, anywhere, commits an act involving a breach of good order or discipline. For example, if you see soldiers in a brawl, you have the general military authority (and the obligation) to stop the fight. This authority applies even if none of the soldiers are in your unit.

para 2-25: General military authority exists whether you are on duty or not, in uniform or in civilian attire and regardless of location. For example, you are off duty, in civilian clothes and in the PX and you see a soldier in uniform with his headgear raised up and trousers unbloused. You stop the soldier immediately, identify yourself and ensure the soldier understands and makes the necessary corrections. If he refuses, saying you don’t have the authority to tell him what to do because he’s not in your NCO support channel, the soldier is wrong.

para 2-26: You as an NCO have both general military authority and the duty to enforce standards as outlined in AR 670-1. Your authority to enforce those regulations is specified in AR 600-20 and if you neglect your duty, you can be held accountable. If the soldier refuses to obey you, what can you do? For starters, you can explain that you have authority regardless of your location, your unit, or whether you are in uniform or civilian attire. You may decide to settle for the soldier’s name and unit. If so, a phone call to his first sergeant should be more than enough to ensure that such an incident does not recur.

Response by PO1 Erika Teasley made May 18 at 2014 5:32 PM

PO1 Erika Teasley — Sun, 18 May 2014 17:32:43 -0400

I t is vital that corrections be made on the spot. Not so much to embarrass the individual but to remind them that people are always looking...One team, one fight.

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made May 18 at 2014 7:43 PM

PO2 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 18 May 2014 19:43:31 -0400

SFC Hufcut, I see this a lot in the Coast Guard. We work with a lot of different units/branches of service and no one ever says anything to the Coasties. I guess because they think we don't know any better. I have been to Camp Lejeune though and the Marines will correct anyone out of line.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made May 18 at 2014 10:08 PM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 18 May 2014 22:08:50 -0400

Here is my 02 cents...I believe everyone should do on the spot corrections, especially if safety of personnel or equipment is involved. yes you should be aware of all service regulations, but some spread to all branches, case and point.... I was in Drill Sergeant School at Fort Leonard wood, MO. We were on the honors detail one day, as retreat was being played, we were all saluting the Flag as it came down. This Airman walked down the side walk, passed the Flag (and us saluting)like it was no big deal... Being in Drill Sergeant school, we all wanted to just drop salutes and tear him a new ***hole, but we continued with our salutes. once the salutes were dropped, our Drill Sergeant Leader proceeded full speed to catch up with this Airmen. He didn't yell, he just politely stopped him and asked did he understand what he just did? The airman seem confused and said no. Well, it was explained to him the importance of respect, especially to the Colors. My point is, on the spot corrections should be done regardless of the branch just so to fix the problem before it grows out of control.....Tactfully of course.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made May 18 at 2014 10:35 PM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 18 May 2014 22:35:02 -0400

interesting...i have to be honest, i've walked by an on the spot correction before, but i regret it.

It's a difficult, and sometimes time consuming/confrontational thing to do. It's a pain in the butt, but thats what we are expected to do, enforce standards.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 18 at 2014 11:50 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 18 May 2014 23:50:42 -0400

That's what NCO's used to do. As a matter of fact when I was a young Joe we policed one another at the lower ranks. Meaning we corrected each others' deficiencies which contributed to a culture of doing just that. However we had to make sure we were "squared away" before making corrections on others, again feeding that very culture. Now a days across the board we tend to police "our unit" or soldiers we know and not the ones we do not know. Anyone can make "corrections" from the comfort of the keyboard. I had a former CSM jump in my ish about walking and talking on a cell phone, he locked my heels and read me the riot act then asked me what the Reg stated about walking and talking in uniform. I stated I had no idea but I would find out and answer at a later time. Upon researching it there was no regulation that covered that nor was there a local policy letter. I had the gumption to address that to CSM and when I did he looked as well when he found nothing he dismissed me from his office smartly!

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made May 19 at 2014 7:31 AM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 19 May 2014 07:31:10 -0400

As long as it is done in a professional manner, not demeaning

Response by SPC Christopher Smith made May 19 at 2014 9:38 AM

SPC Christopher Smith — Mon, 19 May 2014 09:38:31 -0400

I say stick to your own branch, unless it is a post regulation being broken. Attempting to fix a problem that only exist in your own brach makes you look foolish, if you are not familiar with the other branch regulations.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made May 19 at 2014 10:32 AM

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 19 May 2014 10:32:36 -0400

If a reg is not being followed then it shouldn't matter what unit a soldier is from or to what service they belong. If you are on a post/base that belongs to another service you follow their post policies.

Response by PO1 Matthew Maxon made May 19 at 2014 11:21 AM

PO1 Matthew Maxon — Mon, 19 May 2014 11:21:45 -0400

I am retired now, so I wont be a dick about it. But, if you are respectful to them and quietly address the discrepancy and if that person has some self respect they should unscrew themselves. If they don't and are disrespectful back, then all bets are off IMHO. Public embarrassment then becomes the order of the day.

Response by Maj Chris Nelson made May 19 at 2014 11:38 AM

Maj Chris Nelson — Mon, 19 May 2014 11:38:03 -0400

I believe in some instances it is acceptable to provide on the spot correction to everyone... one word of caution if correcting other branches; you better know their regs. They may not be bound to the regs the same way as you are.

Response by SGT Javier Silva made May 19 at 2014 2:17 PM

SGT Javier Silva — Mon, 19 May 2014 14:17:15 -0400

I would like to mention that the DoD has given general command authority to Officers, NCOs & Petty Officers to make on-the-spot corrections to any other member of the service; however, in order to make that correction, you must first know the regulations for that service. Meaning, if you're in the Army & you try to correct personnel in the Navy, you should know their regulations before doing so.

I have been around for a little while and have seen other personnel correct other services on the wear of the MultiCam because it was missing a patch or it had the "Don't Tread on Me" flag versus ISAF. Yes, the MultiCam was created for the Army; however, when another service wears that uniform, they must follow their services regulation on the wear of the uniform.

Make on-the-spot corrections, up or down & tactfully. You have been given that right as officers, NCOs & Petty Officers in the Armed Forces. If someone doesn't like it, make note of the unit & report it.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 19 at 2014 2:43 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 19 May 2014 14:43:59 -0400

As so many others have said, you better be squared away yourself. With that in mind, on the spot corrections are a necessity across the board. When correcting a member of another service, it is imperative that you know the regulations of that service. Not every servicemember has the luxury of being prior service and knowledgeable about more than their own service. It also helps to know other service's rank structure so you know who you are addressing and how to address them.

Response by CW5 Andrew J. Foreman made May 19 at 2014 3:45 PM

CW5 Andrew J. Foreman — Mon, 19 May 2014 15:45:47 -0400

This can be difficult and you must know that branches uniform standards. I have worked on a couple of Naval Bases and once I learned their standards I was comfortable to make on the spot corrects.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made May 19 at 2014 8:56 PM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 19 May 2014 20:56:14 -0400

As professionals and as leaders it is our duty to uphold and enforce the standards. AR 670-1 is not unit specific and therefore neither should your ability to make on-the-spot corrections. If it is a unit specific policy then you obviously wouldn't make that correction on someone outside the unit. I was very surprised to hear a SGM only corrects his Soldiers.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 20 at 2014 1:07 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 20 May 2014 01:07:06 -0400

like everyone is saying before you make a correction to any soldier I would be squared away first

Response by CPO Private RallyPoint Member made May 20 at 2014 2:33 AM

CPO Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 20 May 2014 02:33:55 -0400

Why would it not be ok?

Response by 1SG Michael Blount made May 20 at 2014 7:37 AM

1SG Michael Blount — Tue, 20 May 2014 07:37:45 -0400

Usually, a hard, disapproving look is all it takes, but if I know I'm right and the Service Member in the wrong, whether officer or enlisted, I will take a page out of my diplomatic playbook and bring the issue to the attention of the offender. Lord help that individual if s/he is one of mine from BCT. Deiplomacy goes out the window.

As a curiosity, when you find yourself making OTS corrections, what kind are they most often?

Response by CSM Chris McKeown made May 20 at 2014 12:34 PM

CSM Chris McKeown — Tue, 20 May 2014 12:34:31 -0400

I voted Yes, but only for your own service. It is everyone's responsibility to make on the spot corrections no matter the ranks involved, just make sure to do it in a respectful manner.

Just the other day I had to tell a 2nd LT in the National Guard to get his hands out of his pockets, it took him a-back but he replied yes 1SG and moved along.

I stay clear of other branches of service unless they are attached to a unit I am in as I can not keep up with all the branches codes and regulations.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made May 20 at 2014 12:41 PM

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 20 May 2014 12:41:16 -0400

I've done it, while I'm not 100% on Navy or USMC regs, I have no issues calling someone on their acting like a fool.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made May 20 at 2014 8:12 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 20 May 2014 20:12:23 -0400

I agree with others. Make sure you know your stuff first and you are correct. They will look at you to see if you have anything wrong and if you do then you lose credibility. Also, do it in a respectful way. If at all possible do it in a non-public manner. I always tried to do it away from CSMs and SGMs to avoid them from getting yelled at for having to have an officer correct them. Lastly, if see from a distance and their chain is there pull them aside and inform them to let them fix it. They may not be aware of it. It is all about education and not embarrassing the individuals.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made May 20 at 2014 11:18 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 20 May 2014 23:18:19 -0400

When I was in Kansas I corrected a group of privates who were in the public movie theatre in uniform, I told them they could not be there and their answer to me was well others were here earlier so it is ok. I was an LT at the time and identified myself but they just did not care. We would also get NCO who would do it as well. My husband tells me I am not on duty so stop correcting the soldiers but for me it is hard when I see something wrong or wrong info being given. I don't correct other branches because I don't know their regs though.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 21 at 2014 5:13 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 21 May 2014 05:13:46 -0400

The word of the day is: "Joint". Every operation, every system, every location will eventually be a "Joint" location. Meaning, multiple if not all branches supporting/doing the same thing at the same location. We need to talk about this subject more, and get it out there, having served in both the Navy and the Army, I'm completely comfortable making any on the spot corrections for those two branches, and mostly comfortable hitting up the Marines and the Air Force, if need be. I don't see it as being an issue, its about APPROACH, and EXECUTION. Evaluate the environment before executing, be aware of who is around, and watch what you say and how you say it. If the Soldier/Sailor/Airman/Marine is going to be an ass and rebut, then they have already got it in their head they don't care. I feel that letting something go past you, something you clearly know is out of tolerance, is a failure. Just make sure your behind is squared away as well though. As far as the correcting units while deployed, that is not as easy as in a garrison environment. My last SOP was have a weapon (which was usually my M9) and don't wear shoulder patches except the flag. We had not set eyepro reg or anything like that, and people used to love coming up to us and trying to get all over us about this or that. So as far as correcting in theatre, I only would correct someone for safety related things like muzzle awareness in the Green Beans, chow hall, etc.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made May 21 at 2014 6:13 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 21 May 2014 06:13:03 -0400

Funny enough this question covered in THE ARMY
NON-COMMISSIONED OFFICER GUIDE FM 7-22.7 Para 2-24 to 2-26.

http://armypubs.army.mil/doctrine/DR_pubs/dr_a/pdf/fm7_22x7.pdf

2-24 General military authority is authority extended to all soldiers to take action and act in the absence of a unit leader or other designated authority. It originates in oaths of office, law, rank structure, traditions and regulations. This broad-based authority also allows leaders to take appropriate corrective actions whenever a member of any armed service, anywhere, commits an act involving a breach of good order or discipline. For example, if you see soldiers in a brawl, you have the general military authority (and the obligation) to stop the fight. This authority applies even if none of the soldiers are in your unit.

2-25. General military authority exists whether you are on duty or not, in uniform or in civilian attire and regardless of location. For example, you are off duty, in civilian clothes and in the PX and you see a soldier in uniform with his headgear raised up and trousers unbloused. You stop the soldier immediately, identify yourself and ensure the soldier understands and makes the necessary corrections. If he refuses, saying you don’t have the authority to tell him what to do because he’s not in your NCO support channel, the soldier is wrong.

2-26. You as an NCO have both general military authority and the duty to enforce standards as outlined in AR 670-1. Your authority to enforce those regulations is specified in AR 600-20 and if you neglect your duty, you can be held accountable.

If the soldier refuses to obey you, what can you do? For
starters, you can explain that you have authority regardless of your location,your unit, or whether you are in uniform or civilian attire. You may decide to settle for the soldier’s name and unit. If so, a phone call to his first sergeant
should be more than enough to ensure that such an incident does not recur.

Response by Sgt Randy Hill made May 21 at 2014 10:56 AM

Sgt Randy Hill — Wed, 21 May 2014 10:56:03 -0400

I like how Canada handles this. Your boot camp is the same training for everyone and when you go to your AIT that is when you train for your specialty be it in the navy or whatever. Everyone is indoctrinated into the same culture and the same regulations. Hard to see it happening with our famous service rivalries. That would be one way to enhance discipline across the services.

Response by GySgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 23 at 2014 2:48 AM

GySgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 23 May 2014 02:48:40 -0400

I once got my pee pee smacked because there was a report filed by an Airman stating there was some Marine walking around correcting people aggressively. If you walk past me and is of lower grade and fail to properly greet me, I will stop you. Doing something crazy or just looking all jacked up in your uniform, you will be stopped. The report of aggressively correcting somebody, probably yes to the Airman but normal for Marines. Ive calmed down ever since I became a SNCO like most SNCO's do but I still police my own and the men of lesser grade, and that includes every brach of service since I have been a leader of soldiers, Marines, sailors, and airmen.

Response by GySgt Private RallyPoint Member made May 23 at 2014 2:52 AM

GySgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 23 May 2014 02:52:58 -0400

I can't believe a SGM said I only correct soldiers from his unit, NASTY! I remember the SgtMaj's in good o'l 62 Area of Camp Pendleton, CA just always screaming at cars to slow down. It didn't matter if you were a Marine, Corpsman, spouse, child, if you broke that 5mph speed limit (which SgtMaj's can tell since they have radar detectors fixed in their eyes) you were going to be pulled out of that vic, put at the position of attention, and receive some good o'l PME.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 23 at 2014 4:16 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 23 May 2014 04:16:03 -0400

I say, "Yes, it is vital to discipline in the military." Why? It is just that way. I once saw a young SPC. wearing his soft cover in a helmet area, and it was on backwards.

Told him to put his helmet on in this area, and secondly that the soft cap must be worn correctly. He wanted to argue racism, until his SFC came along and thanked me and made his troop do what I said. I had him pull his pants up too. The other NCOs said; "We need more NCOs like you...you've got balls!".

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made May 24 at 2014 4:55 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 24 May 2014 16:55:53 -0400

The answer lies in General Military Authority. I believe that FM 7-22.7 (The Army Non Commissioned Officer Guide) best answers the question....

2-24. General military authority is authority extended to all soldiers to take
action and act in the absence of a unit leader or other designated authority. It
originates in oaths of office, law, rank structure, traditions and regulations.
This broad-based authority also allows leaders to take appropriate corrective
actions whenever a member of any armed service, anywhere, commits an act
involving a breach of good order or discipline. For example, if you see soldiers
in a brawl, you have the general military authority (and the obligation) to stop
the fight. This authority applies even if none of the soldiers are in your unit.

2-25. General military authority exists whether you are on duty or not, in
uniform or in civilian attire and regardless of location. For example, you are
off duty, in civilian clothes and in the PX and you see a soldier in uniform
with his headgear raised up and trousers unbloused. You stop the soldier
immediately, identify yourself and ensure the soldier understands and makes
the necessary corrections. If he refuses, saying you don’t have the authority to
tell him what to do because he’s not in your NCO support channel, the soldier
is wrong..

2-26. You as an NCO have both general military authority and the duty to
enforce standards as outlined in AR 670-1. Your authority to enforce those
regulations is specified in AR 600-20 and if you neglect your duty, you can be
held accountable.

If the soldier refuses to obey you, what can you do? For
starters, you can explain that you have authority regardless of your location,
your unit, or whether you are in uniform or civilian attire. You may decide to
settle for the soldier’s name and unit. If so, a phone call to his first sergeant
should be more than enough to ensure that such an incident does not recur.

“Speak with your own voice.”
CSM Clifford R. West

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made May 27 at 2014 2:05 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 27 May 2014 14:05:07 -0400

Should never be an issue, we still have general military authority. I was in the Airport in ATL a couple weeks ago, and there was a large group of Sailors walking around with headphones on, I respectfully asked if they are allowed to wear them, then told them to take them off, which they did right away!

Response by SFC Rich Carey made May 27 at 2014 2:18 PM

SFC Rich Carey — Tue, 27 May 2014 14:18:37 -0400

I see no problem with the on the spot correction regardless of branch or rank. The way you make the on the spot correction will make all the difference in the world.

Response by SFC Michael W. made Jun 22 at 2014 11:04 PM

SFC Michael W. — Sun, 22 Jun 2014 23:04:45 -0400

Yes, plain and simple!

Response by LTC Paul Labrador made Jun 26 at 2014 12:34 PM

LTC Paul Labrador — Thu, 26 Jun 2014 12:34:27 -0400

Yes you can correct, just make sure that what you're correcting actually applies to the person in question...

Response by SCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 26 at 2014 5:46 PM

SCPO Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 26 Jun 2014 17:46:54 -0400

If someone is jacked up then they are jacked up. They may not even realize it. If there is something wrong with my uniform I would certainly hope that someone lets me know. There is always a time and place and way of doing it. I do not feel that anyone needs to be called out and belittled, that is not going to solve anything and will probably just make you look like an ass. I will say if you are going to correct someone, especially cross-service you sure as hell better know what you are talking about.

Response by SPC Charles Brown made Jul 7 at 2014 9:55 PM

SPC Charles Brown — Mon, 07 Jul 2014 21:55:12 -0400

Don't be surprised if the service member from another branch tells you to go f yourself.

Response by CSM Michael J. Uhlig made Jul 7 at 2014 9:55 PM

CSM Michael J. Uhlig — Mon, 07 Jul 2014 21:55:31 -0400

SFC Hufcut, you did the right thing. Its never right to walk past a deficiency.

One thing I've learned from 25 years of active duty service as a NCO, when we fail to enforce a standard, we create a new standard!

Response by CMDCM Gene Treants made Jul 7 at 2014 11:15 PM

CMDCM Gene Treants — Mon, 07 Jul 2014 23:15:17 -0400

If it is wrong, fix it!

Response by 1SG Michael Blount made Jul 8 at 2014 5:23 AM

1SG Michael Blount — Tue, 08 Jul 2014 05:23:02 -0400

To say or do nothing is to approve.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 14 at 2014 11:40 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 14 Sep 2014 23:40:10 -0400

Honestly SFC Hufcut, this is my personal opinion if I'm messed up I don't care who corrects me, I'm glad to have it because it means they would rather not let me get spotted by someone higher and possibly get a ass chewing wether in garrison or deployed. And the other unit or branch I think it shouldn't matter if it's messed up as a fellow military person I'd rather someone tell me than me still be walking around looking jacked up.

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Sep 14 at 2014 11:57 PM

SFC Mark Merino — Sun, 14 Sep 2014 23:57:04 -0400

No brainer 1SG Private RallyPoint Member, but for some reason the SGM in question just blew our mind. I can't make heads nor tails out of that comment. Keep those corrections coming. NCO's lead the way.

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 15 at 2014 12:16 AM

PFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 15 Sep 2014 00:16:34 -0400

We were trained that the proper wear of the uniform was a necessity and a respect to those who have worn it before us. I've called out superiors on it, very respectfully, and gotten very good responses off of it. The only reason I won't correct another branch is my ignorance to their uniform appearance regulations.

Response by PO2 Rocky Kleeger made Sep 15 at 2014 1:02 AM

PO2 Rocky Kleeger — Mon, 15 Sep 2014 01:02:52 -0400

My personal feeling has always been that if one of my people are screwing up, you come to me, and tell me. I will correct them. I ask this for all my people regardless if they are in my CoC, or not

Response by 1SG Michael Blount made Sep 15 at 2014 10:19 AM

1SG Michael Blount — Mon, 15 Sep 2014 10:19:16 -0400

Out of reg is out of reg. Period. Personally, I think the SGM was looking for something to do and carving out his lane in the road.

Response by SGT Marvin "Dave" Bigham made Sep 15 at 2014 11:01 AM

SGT Marvin "Dave" Bigham — Mon, 15 Sep 2014 11:01:42 -0400

I don't wanna be a rag-bag wanna-be, and I would not let anyone my rank and lower fall below standards either.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 15 at 2014 7:45 PM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 15 Sep 2014 19:45:23 -0400

But I will add the caveat that situation dictates.

Response by SSG Maurice P. made Sep 16 at 2014 11:44 AM

SSG Maurice P. — Tue, 16 Sep 2014 11:44:53 -0400

BACK IN THE DAY IT DIDNT MATTER WHAT UNIT YOU WERE IN IF A N.C.O OR S.N.C.O STOPPED AND CORRECTED YOU IT DIDNT MATTER YOU GOT CORRECTED PERIOD END OF STORY...

Response by SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 16 at 2014 3:51 PM

SFC(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 16 Sep 2014 15:51:17 -0400

There are right ways and wrong ways to do on the spot corrections. On the spot corrections done in a tactful manner allows the soldier to retain dignity while you as a leader portray an attitude of professionalism. Most soldiers will appreciate a tactful and dignified on the spot correction because it helps them correct an issue before running into that senior NCO who just loves to humiliate a soldier for their own entertainment.
It is also vital as a leader to make sure your soldiers know the current SOP in their operational area. Taking the time to go through the SOP, especially in regards to wear of the uniform, (because certain areas and certain units SOP's differ) instead of just handing out a "little blue book" will show them that you care about the standard. Letting your soldiers know in their initial counseling what their responsibilities are and what your responsibilities are in regards to the SOP can go a long way in heading off issues.

Response by SSG John Erny made Sep 16 at 2014 6:00 PM

SSG John Erny — Tue, 16 Sep 2014 18:00:54 -0400

In the same branch of service I say yes, it is an obligation as an NCO to enforce standards. Be tactful about it but make the correction. In another service it depends on that that individual is doing. The Army does not understand the culture of other branches, if it is questionable ask. Example: "So is it OK for Air Force personnel have their boot laces out?"

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 16 at 2014 6:28 PM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 16 Sep 2014 18:28:04 -0400

I really don't want to wade into this one - it always seems to get people riled up. But, meh, what the hay...

Listen, you Army types - I'm all about you guys/gals being up on AR-600 version umptifrats point naught niner dash fourteen slash alpha duece. Live it, breathe it ad nauseum! In my 23 years, I was foisted on several services for reasons that are best left unsaid. Part of the briefing is protocol - but I'll be honest, sometimes the brain just doesn't take in all the various parts and particles ..... all I wanted to do was catch a ride to some place that wasn't on the map. But noooooooo some 1st Sgt decides he's gonna try to "smoke me" because my sleeves are up (or was it down?)...I forget. so....uh...no. Not going to happen. Which, of course, led to some very interesting conversation that started with "we'll see who does what!" and ends with "oh yeah, do yer best!" or words to that effect....

When dealing with other services, you gotta go with "oh dang" and let it go. Yep, it's your territory and yep you're in charge - only.... not always. It's like I told the coasties that took a ride on my ship: "you're free to roam about and see anything that's not marked "do not touch" or "controlled entry"; when you hear the GQ alarm go to the assigned station location and shut up. When there's a fire or a drill, get the devil out of the way and shut up. When you hear "make a hole" it's not a request - not a request at all. And when the chow bell rings...don't be the first in line. Other than that...welcome aboard"

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made Sep 17 at 2014 4:42 PM

SSG (ret) William Martin — Wed, 17 Sep 2014 16:42:17 -0400

What about safety concerns? If you saw your 1SG arrive to the unit with his or her child not in a car seat and the child was suppose to be in one, would you say something? I would say something for sure.

Response by SSG Jacob Wiley made Sep 18 at 2014 3:25 PM

SSG Jacob Wiley — Thu, 18 Sep 2014 15:25:37 -0400

So he was only a SGM and upheld standards when he wanted to?

Response by SGT Kevin Adams made Sep 18 at 2014 3:54 PM

SGT Kevin Adams — Thu, 18 Sep 2014 15:54:05 -0400

The way I look at on spot corrections is yes if you see some one messed up correct them but do it tactfully not going up and ripping that person a new one. I've seen it to many times when higher rank NCO'c and officers just take a soldier "to the wood shed" because of a minor thing like a boot lace being undone. There's no reason to just flat out be disrespectful to anybody. When I see something that is outta regs I try to correct it but I always try to be tactful no matter if it is an e1 private or a sergeant major.

Response by COL Jean (John) F. B. made Sep 19 at 2014 12:34 PM

COL Jean (John) F. B. — Fri, 19 Sep 2014 12:34:00 -0400

Absolutely ... It is an inherent responsibility of all leaders to correct any instances of indiscipline, uniform infractions, etc. that they observe.

I agree with the comments of others who stated that you need to know the rules/policies before you do it. That goes without saying. Having served in several joint assignments, I know it is difficult to learn about other services' uniform policies, however, you should take the time to do it, especially if you find yourself in an assignment or situation where members of other services are. It is part of the expectations of leaders to set the example and to enforce the rules.