Is it "pointless" to scope an AR if using 5.56/.223?

LCDR Joshua Gillespie — Thu, 03 Sep 2020 12:35:03 -0400

Response by CPT Jack Durish made Sep 3 at 2020 12:37 PM

CPT Jack Durish — Thu, 03 Sep 2020 12:37:43 -0400

A reasonable question. I wish the answer were as reasonable. It depends...

Response by PO1 H Gene Lawrence made Sep 3 at 2020 12:39 PM

PO1 H Gene Lawrence — Thu, 03 Sep 2020 12:39:53 -0400

I’d rather have a laser sight.

Response by LCDR Joshua Gillespie made Sep 3 at 2020 12:43 PM

LCDR Joshua Gillespie — Thu, 03 Sep 2020 12:43:49 -0400

So-background to the question: The Navy uses (used?) the Mk12 (see image) "Special Purpose Rifle". My understanding is that it was chambered in 5.56, but fired a 77 grain, "Open Tip Match" round to compensate for the NATO round's lack of ballistic performance at longer range. I see a lot of scopes on civilian ARs... heck, I've got one with a 1-4x scope mounted. I've heard some "wise men" saying it's "pointless" because the 5.56/.223 round "runs out of steam" at any range one would reasonably be using a scope... I kinda agree, but kinda disagree. I routinely shoot tight patterns on steel with my rig at intermediate ranges where the scope does seem to help with accuracy over the naked eye. What I don't know is if that "PONG!" I'm getting on the gong represents enough energy to drop a whitetail deer... or just inflate my ego. I'm not expecting to need to engage ISIS anytime soon... but thinking about the possibility of transitioning from intermediate to near ranges, I mounted 45 degree offset "iron sights" on mine. I've tried transitioning from a target at around 300 yards, scoped/on bipod... to offhand at fifty; seems to work alright. What are you guys' thoughts?

Response by SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth made Sep 3 at 2020 12:44 PM

SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth — Thu, 03 Sep 2020 12:44:05 -0400

I'm a purist, I prefer iron sights.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 3 at 2020 12:44 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 03 Sep 2020 12:44:25 -0400

Ii scope all of them even the .17. My AR platform weapon also has additional side mount Iron sites, for the close in work.

Response by GySgt Kenneth Pepper made Sep 3 at 2020 12:47 PM

GySgt Kenneth Pepper — Thu, 03 Sep 2020 12:47:33 -0400

I guess it depends on what you are using the weapon for.
If you are target shooting long distance it makes sense. You might want to spend a little more and upgrade your ammo to match grade.
If the weapon is for personal defense or sport shooting within 30 yards, a laser dot or holographic scope makes much more sense. For me anyway.
There are rails that allow for mounting both of them.

Response by SGT Steve McFarland made Sep 3 at 2020 1:00 PM

SGT Steve McFarland — Thu, 03 Sep 2020 13:00:49 -0400

I wouldn't need a scope on my AR-Pistol, but a friend of mine pops groundhogs at over 300 yards with his scoped, customized AR-15. My use is better served by a red-dot.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 3 at 2020 1:34 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 03 Sep 2020 13:34:33 -0400

I think this would just come down to personal preference.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 3 at 2020 2:28 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 03 Sep 2020 14:28:15 -0400

For the effective range I prefer iron sights but I prefer low tech.

Response by TSgt George Rodriguez made Sep 3 at 2020 2:46 PM

TSgt George Rodriguez — Thu, 03 Sep 2020 14:46:34 -0400

Not if your elderly and need glasses to see beyond your nose. LOL. Some of us have optical problems and need all the optical enhancements available.

Response by CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 3 at 2020 3:24 PM

CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 03 Sep 2020 15:24:28 -0400

Iron sights won't let you down in a survival situation. No batteries and not fragile. Personal preference. I've made shots at 80-100 yds with $100 Marlin .22 LR. (scope included), that I wouldn't have made with sights. Something about a reticle to help manage wobble area. Shooting stick is good too.

Response by SPC Steven Nihipali made Sep 3 at 2020 3:31 PM

SPC Steven Nihipali — Thu, 03 Sep 2020 15:31:55 -0400

application purposes... if you're trying to get that bullet out to a mile, yeah, pointless. It can get there, but damn, you
re shooting over a mile high anyway

Response by MSgt Steven Holt, NRP, CCEMT-P made Sep 3 at 2020 3:42 PM

MSgt Steven Holt, NRP, CCEMT-P — Thu, 03 Sep 2020 15:42:22 -0400

LCDR Joshua Gillespie I suppose that depends on what the weapon is being used for. I typically use mine for less than 75yds so a middle-of-the-line red dot works well for my applications. Were a shooter to be engaging at longer ranges, I can see the advantages of having a scoped rifle. Incidentally, when engaging beyond 100yds, my go-to of choice is a .308 Remington 700.

I also noticed from your profile you're just a short drive down the road. Maybe one of these days when the 'Rona has been defeated, we can burn some gunpowder together and AFTER enjoy a cold adult beverage.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Sep 3 at 2020 4:53 PM

SGM Bill Frazer — Thu, 03 Sep 2020 16:53:35 -0400

Why- shot competition using M16 at 500-600 yards- damn scope would have been nice.

Response by Maj Robert Thornton made Sep 3 at 2020 5:27 PM

Maj Robert Thornton — Thu, 03 Sep 2020 17:27:25 -0400

On my bolt action 5.56 I use a 3×9 scope, my vision isn't as good as it used to be. My son's AR had a Vortex 0×6 scope which works well close up or at distance.

Response by CMSgt James Nolan made Sep 3 at 2020 7:40 PM

CMSgt James Nolan — Thu, 03 Sep 2020 19:40:21 -0400

I would prefer a .308, but.. yes I can see a use for a scoped AR. Better picture than iron or optic at 300-500 for sure.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 3 at 2020 10:08 PM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 03 Sep 2020 22:08:03 -0400

If both the AR and the ammo used are match grade, i.e. minute of angle, and you have a reason to shoot that far, sure.
If it is an off the shelf AR with w 3 MOA barrel and green tip ammo, the scope isn't much help other than just an easy way to see the resulting large shot group.

Response by SSG Paul Headlee made Sep 4 at 2020 10:15 AM

SSG Paul Headlee — Fri, 04 Sep 2020 10:15:29 -0400

I used to thinks so. Now I'm old and can't see as well. ACOG all day, every day. What a difference!

Response by SSG Harry Outcalt made Sep 5 at 2020 10:41 PM

SSG Harry Outcalt — Sat, 05 Sep 2020 22:41:54 -0400

just a matter of the type of shooting you are going to do, the point of any scope is to do more precision type of shooting, the old m 16 scopes we used worked very well upto 500m. if you had some skill , but just about anyone could display some serious skill at 300m or less..