Is it time to set up bases in Eastern Europe?

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 10 Jun 2014 16:07:39 -0400

With the agression of the country formerly known as the "Soviet Union," in Georgia and now Ukraine, there has been talk about an expanded NATO or US role in Eastern Europe. Is it time to move the Army BDE from Germany or Italy to Poland, Ukraine, Estonia-Latvia-Lithuania or somewhere more relevant? What about one of the CONUS based Brigades? Would you volunteer for an assignment in Eastern Europe?

Response by 1SG Steven Stankovich made Jun 10 at 2014 4:22 PM

1SG Steven Stankovich — Tue, 10 Jun 2014 16:22:10 -0400

The writing on the wall may already be there sir. There are already well publicized joint exercises with US Forces and members of the Armed Services of the countries that you mention. Is this a prelude to something more permanent? Possibly. If you take into account the fact that Europe does not have the force structure to support anything permanent (173rd and 2CR are all that remains), planners would look CONUS. Maybe something like the rotation schedule to Korea? It will definitely be interesting to watch this unfold over the next few years.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 10 at 2014 9:43 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 10 Jun 2014 21:43:39 -0400

I'm with MAJ Ballinger on this one. Its a good idea but its not going to happen anytime soon. Plus nobody wants another Cold War for the simple fact that the country is tired of war and more importantly, the button is 100 times more likely to be pressed.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 11 at 2014 12:52 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 11 Jun 2014 00:52:41 -0400

Sir, I would agree that it is going to take a while for permanent bases to be established. However, with all the ongoing exercises, including the exercises smaller units, like the Illinois National Guard, have been doing in Poland since the early 90s, I would not be surprised if there is an establishment down the road.

From the sounds of it, Eastern European countries like Poland would be very welcoming of our presence there due to the threat. Also, having been to Poland twice, I noticed the people are very welcoming to Americans.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 11 at 2014 4:06 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 11 Jun 2014 04:06:22 -0400

LTC Halvorson,

This is a great topic. I'm suprised I didn't see this pop up sooner. Right now, due largely to our so called "pivot" to Asia to counter China, the Army has already cut significant combat power from Europe. This was based on the (largely faulty) assumption that in the "post-modern" era, the European nations (baltic, western, eastern, central, etc) would all play by the same rules. These decisions however were not entirely driven by the need to "pivot" to Asia so much as to cut our overseas commitment due to our inability to adequately maintain that force in Europe based on financial constraints.

Personally, I'm not surprised Vladimir Putin has capitalized on our disengagement from European military organizations. While there are well publicized training exercise, I believe they will continue to be well publicized moreso than useful. The point of these exercises are political, both domestically and abroad. Even though American's largely have moved to supporting a less interventionist stance on foreign policy, we don't like it.

America, likes to feel strong, even if we've made the political calculus to take a step back and "lead from behind", the real translation being to disengage from leadership. Over the last six plus decades, America has solidified itself as the guarantor of security and peace in Europe from the threat of Russian (then Soviet) oppression. Due to our significant contribution to the region's security, Europe was able to adopt policies that stripped and devolved (and continue to devolve) their military forces in favor of social programs that their people demanded.

The end result is that Europe is not currently able to protect itself from a conventional military force, or reliably project power. Germany is the only nation that currently maintains a respectable ground force and air force. The French maintain a Navy with limited offensive capability, but their effectiveness is limited by their lack of force projection.

Great Britain has cut their military drastically with the assumption that they'll never go to war again, as did France and Germany will continue to degrade it's own forces as well. After our intervention in Libya, it proved that Europe could not handle a North African despot with limited capacity to counter modern military systems. If it wasn't for American logistical support (such as KC-135s to refuel their aircraft), the Brits, French and other associated partners would not have been able to win the "air war" against Gaddafi.

This culture of dependency on America isn't going away. The only nation in Europe that will stand out from this is Poland. Poland is currently increasing military spending, developing a professional NCO Corps, modernizing everything from weapons, to aircraft to individual Soldiers equipment. Poland however will remain limited to being a regional power over the next decade or so and will continue to lack meaningful capacities to project military force outside of their borders, sans American help.

It is due to this dependency on America and the reluctance of European populations to cut social programs to fund a military force that could serve to deter further Russian aggression in Europe. Also of note, Europeans have no desire to go to war with another nation, even if they're obligated to do so. While a portion of Ukraine has been annexed and Russia may even move into more of Ukraine to reach Moldova, the Europeans will not resprt to military action.

Putin knows this. He will pay significant financial hardships for this, but domestically he will secure his power base. In Russia, he is making people feel proud of their national heritage once more. While financial costs will remain real and seriously damaging to the Russian economy, Mr. Putin will continue is reign of power and continue to reassess and reevaluate as he's done since he came to power and before that as well.

The American people will continue to lack the desire for foreign intervention. We won't be going back to "Fortress America", but I don't envision us moving permanent bases into the region, which the State Department would view as antagonistic to Russia. The end result may end up being short tour deployments to European nations for training exercises that will largely be more symbolic than serve to actually prepare for a conventional conflict against Russia.

As it stands, due to budget constraints and our focus on the war in Afghanistan, our ability to rapidly mobilize military forces to credibility deter a large scale conventional conflict in Europe is... limited. We would not be able to muster the strength to prevent Russia from invading the entire nation of Ukraine, nor would Americans have the Will to fight that battle. We have a President who's foreign policy is driven more by public opinion as it changes day to day than a long term, dedicated foreign policy plan.

So I do not believe America will, or should, place permanent (major) military facilities in Eastern Europe, as the United States does not have the will, Europe does not want to antagonize Russia, the Europeans will not cut their social services to pay for a defense and the United States will continue to be depended on for regional security.

My $0.02.

V/R
SGT Mullet

Response by LTC Paul Labrador made Jun 11 at 2014 11:40 AM

LTC Paul Labrador — Wed, 11 Jun 2014 11:40:37 -0400

Hell, I'd love to be stationed in the Czech Rep or Poland.... ;o)

Response by PO1 William "Chip" Nagel made Jun 11 at 2014 7:48 PM

PO1 William "Chip" Nagel — Wed, 11 Jun 2014 19:48:15 -0400

If it happens Poland or Czech Republic would be an awesome place to be stationed.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 3 at 2014 12:31 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 03 Aug 2014 12:31:17 -0400

Whats wrong with keeping the bases we got right now in Germany? They worked then, no reason they should work now.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 25 at 2014 8:01 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 25 Aug 2014 20:01:15 -0400

We have troops in Poland, Georgia etc.

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Aug 26 at 2014 6:27 PM

SFC Mark Merino — Tue, 26 Aug 2014 18:27:39 -0400

I feel we should go as far as to put one of our larger CONUS bases there. However, I have been taken out of the fight, so I'll defer to the ones who will be affected by the possible move.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 11 at 2014 3:32 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 11 Nov 2014 15:32:49 -0500

China and probably Russia has designs on the Philippines for some very good reasons and we cannot play footsies with our poor foreign policy of 2014.

Response by PFC David Gettman made Jul 12 at 2017 12:42 AM

PFC David Gettman — Wed, 12 Jul 2017 00:42:44 -0400

In 2015, 3d Squadron, 2d Cavalry Regiment took three columns of vehicles through Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, and the Czech Republic back to Germany to show solidarity with those countries and to piss off the Russians. This coin commemorates the event.

Response by SSgt Holden M. made Jul 13 at 2017 11:18 AM

SSgt Holden M. — Thu, 13 Jul 2017 11:18:27 -0400

We do have an air force base in Turkey. I haven't been stationed there but I have heard that it's pretty small and not much there but it is a base.

Response by SPC Edward Robinson made Feb 26 at 2018 9:50 AM

SPC Edward Robinson — Mon, 26 Feb 2018 09:50:39 -0500

Sir, I agree with you on this. We should move our bases out of the Federal Republic of Germany. My father served in Mannheim in the mid 1950s we were with him as children. When I served in the Army I did two tours of duty in Germany in the early 1970s (Kaiserslautern 56th S&S BN) and the early 1980's (Worms 5th Signal Command and Darmstadt 575th PSC).

Europe has changed since the wall fell in Berlin; its now controlled by the EU out of Brussels, Belgium. I have more respect for the countries that were part of the Eastern Block this day and age then the ones that were part of the Western Block. The world has changed and our members from the Cold War have become more socialist then they were at the end of war.

This one did travel around Europe even went to Berlin during July of 1982 on my 30th Birthday. Went into East Berlin through Check Point Charlie wearing my Dress Greens with an Army buddy Thomas Andrews originally out of Alabama who was stationed in Darmstadt also. It was a world that was different as night and day between West Berlin and East Berlin. Saw with my own eyes what happens when a government takes control of everything and don't let the citizens have the Rights that we have with our Bill of Rights and Constitution. It was an eye opener.

Response by CPT Thomas Cofield made Feb 27 at 2018 5:31 AM

CPT Thomas Cofield — Tue, 27 Feb 2018 05:31:00 -0500

Maybe. Poland right now would be receptive to such an idea but I don't know how easy it would be to maintain those bases, especially if the Western NATO countries decide they don't want to allow us access to their transportation networks. We might be better off ensuring the Poles and Czechs are armed well and capable of fending off the Russians in the event that Putin decides to eye those areas. I just don't see Putin being that stupid to attack what are now NATO countries, especially ones that have emerged as a couple of the strongest growing ones in Europe. I've got friends in Poland they will NOT let the Russians come in without a major fight. Poland isn't the Ukraine, there are very few ethnic Russians there and the Poles absolutely HATE the Russians.