Is PRT sufficient to physically prepare Soldiers?

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 28 Dec 2013 10:16:52 -0500

When PRT went Army wide, one of the first things the instructor said was PRT limits running to 2 miles and low impact. Sounds good right? Well the reality is that a lot of Soldiers are failing their PT test, and these are Soldiers who conduct PRT daily and to the standard. So my main question is, would we be better off going back to "old school" PT or continue with PRT?

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Dec 28 at 2013 10:24 AM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Sat, 28 Dec 2013 10:24:10 -0500

It's pretty good if implemented by leadership that is knowledgeable and perform it to standard, in ever increasing PT plans spelled out in the book. The problem is no ones read it and no one does it right...

Response by SGM Matthew Quick made Dec 28 at 2013 10:47 AM

SGM Matthew Quick — Sat, 28 Dec 2013 10:47:23 -0500

If done properly, PRT has three main benefits: - Reduces injuries - Building muscles in areas not normally used allows for muscle recovery - Combat efficiency - Correlates to actions used in combat and relates to warrior tasks and battle drills<div>- Instill discipline - Gets Soldiers used to taking command from leaders.  Soldiers must be disciplined to survive in combat The program's goal is to develop Soldiers who are physically capable and ready to perform their duty assignments or combat roles. Once the program is in place, Soldiers and leaders will see its benefits. APRT doesn't train for the current APFT (the Army is working a few new options), but it works a Soldier's core and upper and lower body. It also works the cardiovascular system. </div>

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 28 at 2013 3:15 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 28 Dec 2013 15:15:48 -0500

As a prior NCOA instructor I was sent to bliss to receive instruction on PRT by the Army physical fitness school instructors. In all the training we received, none of it said anything about limiting running to 2 miles. However it did say that running more than 30 mins a day produced a higher percentage of injuries with minimal improvements on your 2 mile time. Speed training is the key and I can vouch for it.

When we first transitioned to PRT i was not a believer, for 3 weeks on cycle break our 1SG ran pt and for cardio we did nothing but sprints (30:60s, 60:120s, and 300 yard shuttle run) 2 weeks later we did a diagnostic pt test and I improved my 2 mile time by 1:15.

At the end of the day PRT takes discipline to be conducted properly, and in my opinion it was implemented at the wrong level. The senior Leaders did not want to let go of 21-20, and what I saw was senior leaders would try PRT and would come to the same conclusions that I originally had (that it was worthless). Then you would see units doing a PRT/21-20 mix.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 6 at 2014 8:54 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 06 Jan 2014 08:54:07 -0500

I would say it is like all things you get out what you put into it... working hard on and during any exercise regimine will decide how successful the outcome(pt test) of its purpose is. The purpose of PRT was to collaborate and acknowledge all levels of fitness while keeping with traditions of military brother and sister hood. A cohesive unit at all fitness levels can endure the same strengths weaknesses and sustainments as a section, platoon, company, and even a Batallion.

Do i see it working here in a TDA assignment and when Soldiers arrive as AIT Soldiers...HELL NO!!!! But the question really is WHY NOT?? Did they not put forth enough effort during BCT??? Did BCT just pencil whip them into progression??? Too many tangibles and variables exist for any one correct answer...

The focus will be how determined a Soldier is and what is he/she willing to endure??? PRT is just a guideline to physical fitness success...

Response by SFC John Brooks made Jan 6 at 2014 11:58 AM

SFC John Brooks — Mon, 06 Jan 2014 11:58:15 -0500

The biggest problem with PRT isn't the workouts themselves, it's the implementation. PRT requires more unit oversight than old school PT did, especially when it comes to profile PT. In one unit, we went from a lukewarm implementation of PRT to the full blown program and the difference was day and night.

Originally it was just put out the to the squad leaders "Here's PRT, do it." That failed miserably as we attempted to learn and implement a system that required more resources than we had at the squad level. Profiles couldn't be addressed properly, nobody knew the exercises, it was a complete mess.

When the battalion command noticed that it wasn't working, they took a closer look and realized that the medical clinic needed to be involved with the color coded profile system, so they started adding that to all profiles and even had permanent profiles go in for an evaluation to get them color coded as well. No more did we have a group of people walking circles around the PT field for an hour! We also got some more equipment installed into the PT field that allowed us to properly execute some of the more complicated workouts. Training was conducted on how to properly execute and rotate PRT sessions which led to much more benefit per session and an overall increase in fitness at the squad level.

Acceptance of the new system is the biggest hurdle. When we resist change rather than embracing and integrating it, we are creating a self-fulfilling prophecy that the new system will fail.

Response by CPT Mike M. made Jan 6 at 2014 12:43 PM

CPT Mike M. — Mon, 06 Jan 2014 12:43:50 -0500

At the end of the day, I've seldom been in places where just PT was enough to show significant improvements to APFT scores.  I've almost always seen it as a means to maintain one's current level of physical fitness but to improve and truly excell you have to do some additional work on your own on your own time.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 6 at 2014 1:01 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 06 Jan 2014 13:01:45 -0500

The biggest problem with PRT is that, like most Army programs, it is geared toward the lowest common denominator. Unfortunately, with the current generation of chair-bound gamers that we have entering the military, this is necessary to reduce injuries. It will get you in shape for the APFT, but if you want to go above and beyond, it's not the best method.

Response by SSG James Flynn made Apr 3 at 2014 9:39 AM

SSG James Flynn — Thu, 03 Apr 2014 09:39:36 -0400

The Armys physical fitness programs, whether they are the old PT or PRT, are not designed to improve your APFT scores. They were designed to sustain your current level of fitness. If you want to improve your APFT scores, you are encouraged to do extra workouts that will get you to the level you desire. This has always been in the FM. I do get some of your points and just like anything else, everybody has different results and experiences when it comes to PRT. For myself, I have arthritis in my knees. During the old PT program, it would take about 1/2 to 1 mile for my knees to stop hurting enough so that I could comfortably run the rest of the distance. After PRT was implemented and made mandatory, I am able to immediately start running without pain in my knees. So for me, I like the benefits I get from PRT and as a former combat arms Soldier, I understand the theory behind it.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 4 at 2014 4:56 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 04 Apr 2014 16:56:23 -0400

PRT has always seemed like a bad idea to me. I spent almost 29 years between the reserves and active duty being told how important it was to stretch before and after P.T., and now PRT has gotten completely away from stretching. I have seen a lot more musculo-skeletal injuries since PRT came in, and I am pretty much conviced that it is from the lack of stretching.

My understanding is that PRT was introduced as the train-up for the "new and improved" P.T. test that was never approved.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 12 at 2015 10:56 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 12 Feb 2015 10:56:01 -0500

I am just linking this for education purposes. You can see the similarities and differences in some of the training you may have experienced. You may wonder if we have improved or have 'dumbed' down physical fitness training. Be warned it is a 30 minute video.

In the mid 90's, our unit got permission to try some of the exercises in the video and compared them to current physical conditioning drills we trained on. Big differences, and yes
we did it in boots like the video.

https://archive.org/details/TF73856PhysicalFitness1967

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 12 at 2015 1:09 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 12 Feb 2015 13:09:31 -0500

I know this post is fairly old but since it got rehashed today I would like to add a little something to the discussion.

First a little background about me. I am a Master Fitness Trainer and take PRT, general fitness, health, injury prevention and nutrition very seriously. The unit I was in when I completed the MFT course was already doing PRT. We were not doing right; we were doing the best we could with the knowledge we had. Upon return from the course I convince my command team to let me completely take over the unit PRT program. I spent an entire morning training the NCOs in the proper ways to lead and instruct PRT, as well as why PRT was important. Then I spent the entire afternoon training the Soldiers on the correct fundamentals of PRT. As well as giving them instructions on why every PRT move was conducted the way that it is. After this training I was given the reigns of the PRT program. In 8 months our unit went from a 225 APFT average to a 271 APFT average. We went from having 3 Soldiers with a 270 or above to over 20. More importantly we went from over 10 temporary PT related profiles to 1. Why do I explain this? It is to show that if the PRT program is followed correctly, if the command and leaders buy into it and if Soldiers are motivated to buy into it as well results can be seen.
I would like to engage a few responses specifilly;

SSG John Brooks part of the design of PRT is that nothing additional is required to conduct it. Sure you could do climbing drills, or strength training circuits or gym days. But when you have none of those things you should still be able to conduct PRT. Part of the myth is that Soldiers on profile need to conduct separate PRT. That is wrong. They should be in the formation conducting the same exercises as the rest. The alternate exercise for all PRT moves is usually range of motion or turning a 4 count into a 2 count if you cannot keep the pace. The only time that profiles should not be involved in unit PRT is if the profile specifically states that they need to be on a specific piece of equipment for a specific issue.

SFC Gerald Oliver, I see a lot of people using the same well we did it this way for this many years why change now. Knowledge gained over the last 29 years says that the old FM 21-20 stuff was not working. From a muscle physiology stance there is a huge and noticeable difference between static stretching and dynamic (PRT). Pulling on cold muscles that are not warmed up is a receipt[e for tears. Imagine taking a frozen piece of taffy out of the freezer and then bending it all the way back. It will break. Now take that same peice of taffy and slowly work it back and forth and back and forth. Eventually it will warm up and bend no problem.

Response by GySgt Gary Cordeiro made Mar 27 at 2020 11:34 PM

GySgt Gary Cordeiro — Fri, 27 Mar 2020 23:34:00 -0400

The standards have been raised and it is based on intense combat realities. It sucks. No rest, just go, go,go. Save your troops anyway you can, I don’t care if I die. Then you will pass.

Response by Cadet CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 28 at 2020 10:35 AM

Cadet CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 28 Mar 2020 10:35:06 -0400

In my humble opinion, PRT gets your foot in the door, but to see maximum results you just need to exercise outside of that environment, as well as obviously maintain a healthy diet.
For example, my unit does PRT 3 days a week, with a 3 mile release run on 1 of those days. Now, that might be good enough for Ranger Joe maxing out his PT test without even trying, but it’s not gonna be enough of a challenge for Joe Schmuckatelli who can barely pass the run. Odd way to think about it but yes, your weaker guy needs to be challenged more to get up to standards, and PRT alone does not accomplish that. My thoughts at least.