Is PT (Physical Training) a major factor in military leadership?

LTJG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 25 Jan 2016 21:32:31 -0500

Just a thought. I'm big on pt... But more because I just enjoy pt. I believe it's important to set the example and it does show the individual has goals and discipline but I do feel it is over emphasized as a leadership characteristic. Thoughts?

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 25 at 2016 9:34 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 25 Jan 2016 21:34:48 -0500

It is a factor, but not the only factor. LTJG Private RallyPoint Member

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 25 at 2016 9:37 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 25 Jan 2016 21:37:04 -0500

PT is a chance for you to display your motivation and drill and ceremony skills. A good PT program will work towards team building and cohesion.
It is a double edged sword however. What it gives to leadership, it can take away if not conducted properly.

Response by SGT Duane Severa made Jan 25 at 2016 9:39 PM

SGT Duane Severa — Mon, 25 Jan 2016 21:39:02 -0500

Though it has have its virtues, drawing a direct line between fitness and leadership might be difficult. History has many examples of great leaders who did not exhibit prime physical fitness.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Jan 25 at 2016 9:52 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Mon, 25 Jan 2016 21:52:30 -0500

PT is essential especially for the low density MOSs who are less apt to go to the field. PT is essential because I want the average to hit 250. I will not tolerate a bunch of 180s as it tells me the combination of: Weak minds, bodies, program, and leaders. If you don't try your best then what else will you say I won't try my best? What else can I just slide by with?

Response by LTJG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 25 at 2016 9:55 PM

LTJG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 25 Jan 2016 21:55:23 -0500

That's basically how I feel. It can be a valuable leadership characteristic but I have seen pt studs who are given leadership roles just for pt alone

Response by SSG Derek Scheller made Jan 25 at 2016 10:01 PM

SSG Derek Scheller — Mon, 25 Jan 2016 22:01:13 -0500

I have never been a "PT STUD" but I do give it my all during PT and have every APFT I have ever taken. I never ask anything more of my soldiers than to put forth 100% and stay motivated. I do feel PT can be fun, but everybody is different. Some people are motivated to workout with others and some prefer to workout on their own. When necessary I do PRT however I do PT on my own as well since I do like Insanity and other workouts that don't conform to PRT. PRT right now I think has been the biggest downfall only because a lot of the soldiers have not found it motivational. NCOs need to provide that motivation and for them it is even hard. So is PT an important leadership characteristic yes, but is it overemphasized as a leadership characteristic...well if your going to base leadership solely on PT scores then yes, but if you take into account that leaders ability to motivate his soldiers to consistently improve and always work then no it is not overemphasized.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 25 at 2016 10:31 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 25 Jan 2016 22:31:03 -0500

I think the Milutary most definitely places a huge emphasis on PT and body composition.

If I were to be given the choice between a matter level expert who's okay at PT or a PT stud who knows his stuff but not really.. I would most definitely choose the matter level expert.

But naturally, most motivational leaders are good at PT, that's part of the reason people choose to follow them.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 25 at 2016 11:19 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 25 Jan 2016 23:19:18 -0500

No its not over emphasized. We are Soldiers. In order to be successful with the greatest chance of mission success we have to strive to be superb in all areas.; mind, body, and spirit. If I am a beast physically, but lack the others I will be too ignorant to survive or not the spiritual strength to persist through the stressor inherent to our calling. If I am a brilliant intellectual and paid little attention to my physical conditioning I may see a solution to a situation in in but may not possess the physical capabilities to carry out that solution. We fight asymmetrical warfare with more advanced equipment every day. A Soldier who does not constantly strive to progress in all three areas will be marginalized.

Response by MAJ Bryan Zeski made Jan 25 at 2016 11:19 PM

MAJ Bryan Zeski — Mon, 25 Jan 2016 23:19:29 -0500

In this era of downsizing, I think PT should be optional. BUT, everyone takes one PT test every month. Fail one and the paperwork is started for your chapter out of the Army. Fail two and you start clearing the next day.

Response by COL Charles Williams made Jan 25 at 2016 11:35 PM

COL Charles Williams — Mon, 25 Jan 2016 23:35:28 -0500

LTJG Private RallyPoint Member I believe PT (physical fitness and excelling at PT) is a huge part of leading by example and leadership in our Army. How can expect your Soldiers to excel, and to strive for excellence WRT PT, if you are not leading the way personal example. In my career, PT was always a factor in reality and WRT to NCOERs and OERs. I do not feel it is ever over emphasized. PT and fitness are more than a test, it is about total fitness, which is designed to help our Soldiers be more resilient, and reduce stress, under the extreme strains of military service and combat. It is not really about the test. The test is simply a measurement. Total Fitness, and demonstrating fitness by personal example is the goal.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 25 at 2016 11:40 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 25 Jan 2016 23:40:32 -0500

It's a factor, but not the only factor. You need to know where you want to go in your career, how to get there without sacrificing or stepping all over your Soldiers and peers to get there. Help your Soldiers achieve their goals.

Response by Capt Seid Waddell made Jan 26 at 2016 4:23 AM

Capt Seid Waddell — Tue, 26 Jan 2016 04:23:09 -0500

It is certainly emphasized more than it was when I was in.

Response by SSG Oliver Mathews made Jan 26 at 2016 5:53 AM

SSG Oliver Mathews — Tue, 26 Jan 2016 05:53:52 -0500

IMHO

Being a PT stud doesnt make you a Leader... Being a Leader doesnt make you a PT stud. Being able to successfully provide soldiers with Purpose, Motivation and Direction to be better at PT, the ability to train them how to conduct the drills properly is a sign of a good leader.

Response by CW2 Ernest Krutzsch made Jan 26 at 2016 7:03 AM

CW2 Ernest Krutzsch — Tue, 26 Jan 2016 07:03:13 -0500

I was in the 101st MI Battalion 1st Infantry Division as a CW2. I was taking a practice not for record PT test. I was next to the LTC who asked how many pushups I was going to do, I told him, one more than you sir, he did 100, I did 101. At that same test there was a SSG who after doing the minimum required got up and quit. I was livid for 2 reasons, I was a SFC before going to WOCS and I would have eaten that young SSG for lunch for disrespecting the NCO Corps in that manner. I took him to the side and told him that what he had done was unacceptable, and if I ever saw it again, it would reflect in his NCOER. It never happened again, while I was there. PT is not everything, I was consistently in the 290's could not get 300 because my back would not support situps. I believe that your troops look at everything you do, and if you slack, that is giving them permission to slack, and you have no recourse when they do.

Response by SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 26 at 2016 7:35 AM

SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 26 Jan 2016 07:35:37 -0500

It's part of our job, when you ask most groups of people what is one of the most important leadership traits they will say set the example. Well if PT is part of your job set the example and enforce the standard. In the AF PT is one of the only objective standards we have and all real choices have been removed in terms of enforcing it. If you fail XYZ happens on each fail, now if you are failing you are not promotion eligible.
So do it factor into leadership, yes in the AF if you are not passing the PT test your leadership in terms of rank progression is immediately limited.
Join the military and PT is part of your life, if that is not ok with you get out. But if you want to lead people in the military then you need to accept that you have to walk the walk.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 26 at 2016 7:47 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 26 Jan 2016 07:47:15 -0500

PT (and appearance) is a first impression. If you can't even meet that basic requirement, you have NO business leading Soldiers.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 26 at 2016 8:23 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 26 Jan 2016 08:23:07 -0500

A lot because you're a role model and you represent the best of the best

Response by SFC Dave Joslin made Jan 26 at 2016 8:31 AM

SFC Dave Joslin — Tue, 26 Jan 2016 08:31:04 -0500

There is a lot of team building that happens during PT. Bonding through shared sufferage and through accomplishment. There are days now that I am in the private sector that I could go in and say, "ok everyone - zero four thirty tomorrow, ruck up!"

Response by SSG Audwin Scott made Jan 26 at 2016 8:35 AM

SSG Audwin Scott — Tue, 26 Jan 2016 08:35:20 -0500

I think it should play a factor. I don't think it should be the main trait that emphasis a leader. There are many things that need to be displayed when it comes to true leadership!

Response by 1SG Oscar Rivera made Jan 26 at 2016 10:40 AM

1SG Oscar Rivera — Tue, 26 Jan 2016 10:40:08 -0500

PT when incorporated with other tasks is a huge leadership factor and tool for assessing subordinates and yourself. When utilized correctly, it can build teams almost as efficiently as another other method. I don't believe it is overemphasized, just inappropriately conducted or presented.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Jan 26 at 2016 11:02 AM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Tue, 26 Jan 2016 11:02:52 -0500

Physical Training is one of the most visible things we do. Because of its visibility we place A LOT of weight on it in regards to Leadership. That does not mean that it DIRECTLY correlates to Leadership however.

Before anyone loses there mind, it has several INDIRECT ties to Leadership.

1) We always talk about Leading by Example. This does NOT mean being the BEST. It means being present, and STRIVING to "be as good as the Best." Any Leader who thinks they are going to be the Best at everything, is setting themselves up for failure. They have unrealistic expectations.

2) Constant improvement. Physical Training allows for constant improvement. A Leader should always seek to improve themselves. PT is one of the things that actually allows us to track this over time.

3) Health. As your Health Deteriorates, so will your Mental Capabilities. Leadership is a Mental Game. Lose your Mental Edge, Lose your Leadership Edge. Keep your Health up, Keep you Leadership Edge up. Maintaining a strong Health Level (Physical Fitness) helps.

4) Perception. It's ingrained in the Military Society. Run fast, lift more, work out harder, and you'll be considered more "Alpha" and a "better" Marine/Soldier/etc than your peers. Part of that "visibility" issue. It's because your First line sees you everyday, but your Squad Leader/PSG/1SG/CO/Etc only sees a "Snap Shot" of you, and that is NOT on your "transparent" skill set. They see what other people write, and what they "observe" which is likely something as base as PT (CO/BN Runs or PFTs).

5) Schools. The way you get into schools is through "proven performance." See above.

Does any of this mean you can't be an effective Leader without a solid PT background? Nope. Does it mean that the deck won't be extremely stacked against you in our "culture" if you are 20-50 points behind your peers, or run 1-2 mins/mile slower than your peers? Yep. Look how much #%^$^$ there is about "same standards" or "gender neutrality" and we know there is scientific data showing physiological differences for age & gender. The opinions are so deep rooted it will take generations to root out, if they ever do.

Response by SSG Thomas Gallegos made Jan 26 at 2016 12:41 PM

SSG Thomas Gallegos — Tue, 26 Jan 2016 12:41:15 -0500

I think it's over emphasized in the aspect that you cannot expect your Soldiers to pass the APFT if thier leader cannot. Same with HT/WT.

Response by SFC Carlos Gamino made Jan 26 at 2016 3:10 PM

SFC Carlos Gamino — Tue, 26 Jan 2016 15:10:21 -0500

If my immediate leader ( SGT) scored a 180 is because of many factors, some being lack of pride or he just doesn't care. APFT is not that hard, it does take commitment and discipline to achieve high standards.

Response by PO2 Katie Benson made Jan 26 at 2016 3:22 PM

PO2 Katie Benson — Tue, 26 Jan 2016 15:22:50 -0500

Yes we all have to be in a certain physical condition to perform my job is to the best of our abilities! I don't want to call anyone out here, but I have seen cops on TV who are unable to chase down criminals because of their weight; more is expected of the US military.
(I have nothing but respect for the police force)

Response by SFC Bagley Daniel made Jan 26 at 2016 3:25 PM

SFC Bagley Daniel — Tue, 26 Jan 2016 15:25:08 -0500

Im a retired 1sgt with 22 years, PT is important even with my disabilities I always scored above 280. I out performed most soldiers under my responsibility. I lead by example. You lead from the front not from behind.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Jan 26 at 2016 5:03 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Tue, 26 Jan 2016 17:03:53 -0500

I will be first to say if a PSG's average APFT score for the platoon is 250, then he is a success. Tanking is hard work, I did not want underachievers.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 26 at 2016 5:22 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 26 Jan 2016 17:22:54 -0500

As a new NCO I know for a fact lower enlisted do not respect others in their group or the NCO's for that matter that cannot pass their PT test. If you're motivated to improve yourself PT wise I feel like you're more likely to try harder in other areas. I always preach personal brand. How do you want people to remember you.

Response by SFC Pete Kain made Jan 26 at 2016 6:15 PM

SFC Pete Kain — Tue, 26 Jan 2016 18:15:41 -0500

P.T Studs rule. Who cares if the soldier can hit what they shoot at. The Military have been P.T. Nazis for decades. Good luck with that in the DRONE ERA.

Response by SGT Mathew Husen made Jan 26 at 2016 8:12 PM

SGT Mathew Husen — Tue, 26 Jan 2016 20:12:53 -0500

PT is a large part of leading by example and self discipline. A leader who fails or does minimum at PT I guarantee does bare minimum or fails everything else they do. Honestly if an individual settles for the minimum, they should not be a leader.

Response by PFC Bradley Campbell made Jan 28 at 2016 2:30 AM

PFC Bradley Campbell — Thu, 28 Jan 2016 02:30:35 -0500

to a point, yes. but then again, we arent hoplites. we arent the 300. Gen Roosevelt at Omaha beach comes to mind.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 28 at 2016 11:18 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 28 Jan 2016 11:18:01 -0500

I believe, that yes, it is a factor, but definitely not the only one.

Response by 1stLt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 29 at 2016 10:00 AM

1stLt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 29 Jan 2016 10:00:07 -0500

It's not the most important factor, but definitely one of the top factors. Military leaders need to be physically tough. It helps to be in good shape when you are leading men and women because you may be the last one to sleep and the last one to eat, working long hours, with demands all around. You may not be the biggest guy, the strongest lifter, or the fastest runner, but definitely don't be the guy who looks like chewed bubble gum after a company run.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 29 at 2016 6:02 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 29 Jan 2016 18:02:17 -0500

It's one of the many qualities a leader must possess. But overall, I think PT is one that stands out the most to soldiers.
1) You are doing it with them most of the time. If your soldiers see you out there doing it, and you're actually in shape and try hard at it, not just try to pass the hour by; then they see someone who cares, doesn't cut corners, and they are an example of the physical shape you need to be in.

2) If your in shape, then your soldiers have no one to blame when they're not up to standard. They can't be like "Sergeant "so and so doesn't do this, or isn't in shape, why do I have to/have to be?"