Is retiring as a Major just like retiring as a Staff Sergeant?

SPC John Smith — Sun, 22 Apr 2018 16:54:15 -0400

Is retiring as a Major the same as retiring as a Staff Sergeant? Whether officer or enlisted, doesn’t retiring at such a low grade imply that the soldier was a slug and simply managed to stay in for 20 years without being kicked out rather than be a motivated and involved member of the service?

I'll stop my charade right here. I, of course, will always honor any service to our country. Whether Major, Ssg., Private or any number of civilian support groups. I was simply calling out the pointed nature of of many of the 'Questions" that I've seen posted. Many are thinly veiled attacks or weighted opinion pieces that are only posited in order to bait dissent or elicit a vitriolic response. I am no more an enemy of this country or it's service members than any of you. I just wanted to hold a mirror for those that want to call others "Bitches, Snowflakes,Commies or any myriad taunts." This is a forum of comradery built on respect for one another. Keep in mind how your opinions and comments are received.
Respect and gratitude to all who have served,
John A. Smith

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 22 at 2018 4:58 PM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 22 Apr 2018 16:58:07 -0400

SPC John Smith Anyone that serves our country for 20 years or more is not a slug and has my admiration no matter what their rank. Two of the best officers that I served under were enlisted first. There are other good reasons that someone might be a certain rank when they retire.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 22 at 2018 4:58 PM

Capt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 22 Apr 2018 16:58:55 -0400

Well, now, I am a retired Capt. What is you judgement of me? Bear in mind you know nothing about me.

Response by CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 22 at 2018 6:14 PM

CWO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 22 Apr 2018 18:14:25 -0400

You disregard prior-service "other-service", as well as Mustangs. Anyone that serves at all and is Honorably discharged has served admirably, regardless of their rank. Retirement is a personal choice, and many have served one tour and still contributed greatly to the USA.

Response by SPC John Smith made Apr 22 at 2018 7:54 PM

SPC John Smith — Sun, 22 Apr 2018 19:54:06 -0400

What ever happened to move up or move out? Someone spending 20 years of their life in a profession and only advancing to, what amounts to middle management is a mediocre performer at best. I’m not discounting their service, simply pointing out that the officer corps has its fair share of underachievers.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Apr 22 at 2018 9:48 PM

SGM Bill Frazer — Sun, 22 Apr 2018 21:48:06 -0400

Ouch- this is an up or out Service. If you tick/P.O folks off, or don't have the opportunity to get your ticket punched properly- then promotions are slim. Also if it's a tech MOS with limited growth to a grunt or something than you could be DOA.

Response by SSgt Dan Montague made Apr 23 at 2018 9:46 AM

SSgt Dan Montague — Mon, 23 Apr 2018 09:46:46 -0400

Yes, please explain to me why myself and several of my other retired SSgt Friends are "slugs"

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 23 at 2018 12:32 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 23 Apr 2018 12:32:10 -0400

Why did you get out as a SPC? Why didn't you do 20 years? Couldn't handle it? Not tough enough? Didn't want to deploy?

See all those assumptions I just made about you?

Response by CPT Lawrence Cable made Apr 23 at 2018 1:03 PM

CPT Lawrence Cable — Mon, 23 Apr 2018 13:03:33 -0400

If you came into the Army through ROTC, West Point or straight to OCS, you can't retire a Major, or couldn't when I was still active. You hit the primary zone for promotion for Light Colonel at 16 years and it's up or out. If you retire as a Major in the Army, your are prior enlisted.
The 2014 and 2016 Officer Retention Board was brutal on the Captain and Major ranks. 2014 cost 1200 Captains and 550 Majors and it you don't have at least 15 years, you don't qualify for TERA.

Response by SGT Eric Davis made Apr 23 at 2018 1:24 PM

SGT Eric Davis — Mon, 23 Apr 2018 13:24:56 -0400

I don’t care if I retire as an E6 or CW3 which I hope to be one day. I just hope I make it to retirement and you should too!

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 23 at 2018 2:13 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 23 Apr 2018 14:13:05 -0400

Response by COL John McClellan made Apr 23 at 2018 2:16 PM

COL John McClellan — Mon, 23 Apr 2018 14:16:32 -0400

Ohhhh - I don't think that at all! If you retire as a major, then you were promoted 3 times, at least. Maybe, you started enlisted. Maybe you had a break in service. It's possible you had difficulty with LTC and were "passed over" but that still doesn't mean you weren't motivated or a good leader. Promotions from that point on are... very competitive. I think it means you served honorably for 20 years... unless circumstances are otherwise. Same thing for the Staff Sergeant - that's 5 promotions and there are dozens of reasons why you might not ever become a SFC!

Response by SPC John Smith made Apr 23 at 2018 2:22 PM

SPC John Smith — Mon, 23 Apr 2018 14:22:07 -0400

I'll stop my charade right here. I, of course, will always honor any service to our country. Whether Major, Ssg., Private or any number of civilian support groups. I was simply calling out the pointed nature of of many of the 'Questions" that I've seen posted. Many are thinly veiled attacks or weighted opinion pieces that are only posited in order to bait dissent or elicit a vitriolic response. I am no more an enemy of this country or it's service members than any of you. I just wanted to hold a mirror for those that want to call others "Bitches, Snowflakes,Commies or any myriad taunts." This is a forum of comradery built on respect for one another. Keep in mind how your opinions and comments are received.
Respect and gratitude to all who have served,
John A. Smith

Response by MAJ Bryan Zeski made Apr 23 at 2018 2:27 PM

MAJ Bryan Zeski — Mon, 23 Apr 2018 14:27:37 -0400

So, here I am, a Major. I'm looking at retiring at 20 years, as a Major. Why? Because I'm a slug? Eh, maybe. Or... maybe there's an alternative. Maybe I've done my 20 and I'm ready to move on to other things while I'm still young enough to do them. Maybe I'm looking at a SECOND career and want to finish it in time for the usual retirement age.

For me, best case is that I get picked up for LTC AT my 20 year mark (roughly). Then I wait another year to get pinned. Then I stay in for AT LEAST three more years in order to really get the benefits, in retirement, of that rank. So, I'd be postponing my retirement by at least four years. Four years when you are mid-40s mean a lot. It pushes my second retirement past my 65th birthday, closer to 70.

Nope, I'm good. I did three years enlisted and will retire at 20 as a Major. And I'm ok with that - slug or not. ;)

Response by CPT Don Kemp made Apr 23 at 2018 11:19 PM

CPT Don Kemp — Mon, 23 Apr 2018 23:19:57 -0400

What about getting out after 4 years as a Spec 4? I was an E-5 in 32 months and an E-6 at 4 years but far be it from me to call you a slug. Were you?

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made May 12 at 2018 9:39 AM

Maj Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 12 May 2018 09:39:18 -0400

<—-slug and okay with it. I spent 4 years in the reserves, 8 on active duty, 5 more in the reserves, and finished my last three doing PME from home. In that time, someone had to do all the jobs I did, many of which were well outside my MOS. If we thank a three-year veteran for having the guts to sign-up in the first place, should we belittle a 15- or 20-year vey for “not achieving enough?”

Response by SSG Robert Perrotto made May 12 at 2018 9:49 AM

SSG Robert Perrotto — Sat, 12 May 2018 09:49:38 -0400

well special lips - my retiring as a SSG was more due to my attitude then to my ability to do my job at a motivated pace - God failed to instill Tact in me and it was something I had to learn the hard way, it does not endear you to leadership when you tell them the plan or product they came up with is stupid in plain words. So, my advice special lips is to concern yourself with your own career and not make assumptions or attempt to judge other based upon the rank they retired at.

Response by Gary Davis made May 12 at 2018 5:56 PM

Gary Davis — Sat, 12 May 2018 17:56:19 -0400

It’s a good question. My youngest son didn’t aspire to advance to Sargent. He was happy turning wrenches on choppers for the Army. My oldest is waiting federal approval of his advancement to Lt Colonel to match his command of a Battalion FA. FLANG. I don’t consider either one a slacker. They do what they like to do. I would rather have someone doing what they are called to do rather than someone who rises to the highest level of his incompetency.

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made May 29 at 2018 9:40 PM

Maj Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 29 May 2018 21:40:24 -0400

Great article to disrespect the service another veteran made. Less than 10% make it to retirement and all branches are inclined to eliminate dead weight.

Response by Maj Marcia Ann Kuehl made May 30 at 2018 2:09 AM

Maj Marcia Ann Kuehl — Wed, 30 May 2018 02:09:41 -0400

You are using the term "soldier" so can I assume you are referring only to Army personnel? In the Marines, promotions are slower; many of our Major's were enlisted NCOs /SNCOs prior; some MOS's have limited promotions; there might have been a freeze on promotions for so long that you were passed over twice due to no fault of their own; there are many reasons individuals retire as a Major or a SSgt - Inferring someone is a slug because of their "rank" or lack thereof is shortsighted.

Response by Maj Pete Long made Jun 20 at 2018 12:46 PM

Maj Pete Long — Wed, 20 Jun 2018 12:46:04 -0400

As a retired major I will say no. Promotions are based on several factors among which are MOS, precepts at the promotion board, diversity mandates, and proponents at the actual board. When I did not get selected for 05 (long time ago) the reasons were 1. Too much troop time and no Hugh level staff (HQMC or division or MEF level time), attended a fully funded graduate program, and the entirety of my time as a major I was posted to billets where I was the only major in the reporting food chain. 1 of 1 reports do not sit well on The board. Conversely there are promoted officers too numerous to catalog who made a career of never taking chances, never questioning seniors and blindly following orders. The military does not want out of the box thinkers. They want folks who carry out orders

Response by MAJ Barry Lee Clark made Jul 17 at 2018 6:36 PM

MAJ Barry Lee Clark — Tue, 17 Jul 2018 18:36:12 -0400

Perhaps I am a slug, although I did not stay long enough to go to a LTC board so I cannot prove it.

I was, however, enlisted for 13 years and held the rank of SFC - does that diminish my sluggness?

Lots of prior service officers have the fine option of retiring at 20. Heck, the last few years on active duty I was very free to say what I thought. I knew I was retiring and was not going to another board. It allowed me to be professionally free.

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Aug 2 at 2018 10:06 PM

CSM Darieus ZaGara — Thu, 02 Aug 2018 22:06:41 -0400

You statement is uninformed and a bit bold for someone who admits a lack of understanding. There are many factors that affect both promotion and retirement. Suffice it to say that any Soldier that makes it a career is successful and worthy of your respect.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 3 at 2018 1:53 AM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 03 Aug 2018 01:53:35 -0400

I agree it depends on the individual. A major typically has prior service. If a non prior service major retires they were typically extended by aboard that evaluated their career. Also it depends on the era. Retiring as a major was pretty typical at one point.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 27 at 2018 10:39 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 27 Aug 2018 10:39:21 -0400

Who knows? It's none of my business. Sometimes people can make choices that haunt them later. There's many different factors. You tell me what it means, SPC John Smith. Everything is all relative and about perspective; what's yours? What have you been doing with your life? I can't wait to hear it; I'm sure I will be impressed. Happy Monday.

Response by Maj Mike SurlyPatriot made Sep 9 at 2018 8:58 AM

Maj Mike SurlyPatriot — Sun, 09 Sep 2018 08:58:08 -0400

You make a few too many assumptions to get to your opinion. 5 yes enlisted first is a good reasons. Other things to do in life while you're still young & healthy enough. Family considerations. Slugs are the opinionated who pass jugement without consideration of individual circumstances.

Response by CPT Lawrence Cable made Sep 10 at 2018 7:50 AM

CPT Lawrence Cable — Mon, 10 Sep 2018 07:50:02 -0400

Retiring as a Major means that you didn't get passed over for promotion and are prior enlisted to you could get your twenty if you are ROTC, and for most OCS officers. You should get into the promotion zone for Major after 10 years time in service as an officer and hit the promotion zone for LTC at 16 years. Officers are up or out, so you can't ride a Major's rank to retirement.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Sep 11 at 2018 11:02 AM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Tue, 11 Sep 2018 11:02:35 -0400

So, the poster asks a stupid question and makes a stupid statement to indirectly accuse others of being assholes. Are all SPCs jackasses? In reality I do respect anyone who served honorably.

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 15 at 2018 12:16 PM

Maj Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 15 Dec 2018 12:16:40 -0500

I retired as a Major. I had 24 years, 8 of which were enlisted. I know a lot of good officers that retired as a Major. One should avoid stereotypes unless knowing the whole story.

Response by MSG Danny Mathers made Dec 15 at 2018 1:53 PM

MSG Danny Mathers — Sat, 15 Dec 2018 13:53:24 -0500

I do not agree. I have seen a lot of Infantry NCOs retire as SSG due to troop reductions and according to MOS. I have known and served with the best officers in the army. It was not uncommon for Special Forces Officers to retire as Majors which was due to several factors which the number of personnel had a in a carrer field limited the promotions to higher grades. As the services get smaller, the number of senior promotions get smaller. Lastly, I remember back in the 70's, there were personnel retiring as SP5 (E-5) due to their MOS such as truck drivers, generator mechanics and other support jobs. It was hard to meven make SSG when the cut-off score was 99.9.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 6 at 2019 10:01 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 06 Mar 2019 10:01:06 -0500

The good Specialist is baiting you, my friends.
Feed him internet points at your peril.

Response by Maj Scott Kiger, M.A.S. made Mar 27 at 2020 4:53 PM

Maj Scott Kiger, M.A.S. — Fri, 27 Mar 2020 16:53:34 -0400

Not sure if your trying to be devils advocate, call out those that are or just trying to slime your way into asking a weird pointless question or did you get it from someone else???? I did five years enlisted, promoted to Meritorious Sgt after being Meritorious LCpl and nearly Meritorious Cpl but didn't get that one because I was already selected in normal fashion early so the Gunny decided to give it to someone else. I was Meritoriously selected for OCS and became a 2ndLt so at that point you start over. New Schools, new training, new rank, new MOS and all of that takes time. By the time I got back to the Fleet I was nearly at 8 years in the Corps and just starting out as a 2ndLT. I actually knew more Shitbird LtCols than Maj's. They started career right out of college hit the ranks just right, never did anything wrong and low and behold LtCol by 20 gets you life in the Corps most often. Majors in my opinion are usually the ones who worked harder and decided to retire because they still got some gas in the tank and want to leave the Corps before they start to weigh it down like many of those LtCols I mentioned. Just my 2 cents. Not going to discuss all the hundreds of SNCOs who got cut short by MOS conversions that Detailers talked them into taking and then they couldn't pick up rank due to credibility issues...

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Oct 5 at 2020 11:07 AM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Mon, 05 Oct 2020 11:07:17 -0400

No, they definitely aren't alike...

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 28 at 2021 11:38 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 28 Jan 2021 11:38:20 -0500

I face this issue, along with my peers, in the very near future. Will I be a “slug” for not promoting to LTC? I’m sure as heck going to try to get promoted, in fact I’m going to give myself the best chance I can, but at the end of the day about 30% of my year group aren’t going to make it. The average is about 40 people in my branch per year. Are all 40 slugs? I doubt it. Rater profile and timing are huge issues that are out of my control. The boss having favorites or preferences is out of my control. Operational tempo and project portfolio are out of my control. The list goes on, but you get the idea.

Will I feel like a slug, or better yet - a failure - for not getting promoted? I mean, the idea has crossed my mind, and it will certainly feel like failure. I know I don’t want to have that awkward conversation over and over for the rest of my time until 20 years (and after) – but I certainly won’t stop trying to earn my way to the next rank. (by the way SELCON is still being offered, see DA PAM AR 600-8-29 para. 3-13)

If you care to know more I wrote an, as yet to be published, article on this. There’s also Major Bob Gordon’s article "What to do when the Army stops promoting you", which offers insight.

Response by SGT Robert Wager made Jan 28 at 2021 6:53 PM

SGT Robert Wager — Thu, 28 Jan 2021 18:53:59 -0500

What rank someone retires at has little to do with anything at all in the civilian job market unless you retire at or above O-6.
Maybe an O-5 with battalion or equivalent level command experience. It’s not the rank it’s the commitment. On the enlisted side a brigade or higher CSM position is going to command a higher paying job than a 1SG. The vast majority of companies have no idea what the difference between a sergeant or sergeant first class. Or LT and major.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 27 at 2021 10:32 AM

Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 27 Mar 2021 10:32:23 -0400

So, retiring as a Major will not be my fate - but it could have easily been so. Promoting to LTC in many career fields is exceedingly difficult. And at that level, you're running with some strong competitors. When I was selected for LTC, 30% of my peers were not selected. All of them were excellent officers, and some were better than me, in my humble opinion. But they did not get selected. Perhaps it's because they were more of a plough horse than a thoroughbred - a fantastic #2 in charge but not quite #1 material. Perhaps it's because their rater was not a strong writer. Or perhaps it's because providence did not align them with the right jobs. But for whatever reason - they were non-selected. In the Air Force, the promotion board has to certify the results of the board. One question asked of the board, "If you had could select one more person for promotion, would you select the #1 non-select?" They have to be able to answer "yes" to that question. Calling a non-selected Major a slug is like saying a second-string athlete in a major league sport doesn't know how to play the game. In a different league, they'd be a superstar. They are not slugs.

Response by SrA Ronald Moore made Mar 5 at 2022 9:11 AM

SrA Ronald Moore — Sat, 05 Mar 2022 09:11:48 -0500

Keep us pisted to the outcome of the answer

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Mar 5 at 2022 1:44 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Sat, 05 Mar 2022 13:44:35 -0500

Do you believe in the first paragraph?

Response by SSG Tony Basile made Sep 29 at 2022 11:59 AM

SSG Tony Basile — Thu, 29 Sep 2022 11:59:16 -0400

I retired after 21 years as a Staff Sergeant. It had nothing to do with being a subpar or mediocre Soldier. I really get tired of having to somehow “convince” others of their assumptions. I’ve know a couple of Sergeant First Class NCOs who didn’t retire. One got kicked out after 17 years of service.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 3 at 2022 9:12 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 03 Oct 2022 09:12:24 -0400

I wish I had a Major's retirement check.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 3 at 2022 12:37 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 03 Oct 2022 12:37:59 -0400

The way I see it is we all move at our own pace, which doesn't make one lesser than the other. Some of our officer brethren crossed over from enlisted which is why they are retiring as a CPT or MAJ. Some enlisted Soldiers are in an extremely competitive career path which will limit their promotion opportunities, while others are simply happy with what they're doing. Bottom line, I never judge anybody's character based off of rank.

Response by SSG David Phetteplace made Oct 3 at 2022 3:07 PM

SSG David Phetteplace — Mon, 03 Oct 2022 15:07:37 -0400

A lot of the attainment of rank depends on your MOS, available slots in the next higher pay grade and the number of candidates for that position. Some jobs are just hard to get promoted in simply due to limited numbers needed and not individual performance. I’m kind of mystified that people who have served in the system don’t understand how things work.

Response by 2LT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 3 at 2022 3:09 PM

2LT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 03 Oct 2022 15:09:21 -0400

Ehhh....each situation is different.

Response by SSG Raul Alaniz made Oct 4 at 2022 3:59 PM

SSG Raul Alaniz — Tue, 04 Oct 2022 15:59:55 -0400

I really could give a _hit what people think and or say then or now what I retired as, I Retired as SSG and I'm dam proud of it. Anyone one who wants to challenge me on that, is more than welcome too. Heck I know of E-5's who retired as SGT, We were all proud to do our part for our country, The United States of America. And owe no explanations to anyone. Have a Great Day to All.