Is serving 20+ years in today's Army more difficult now than in the 80s? What are some key differences?

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 14 Mar 2016 21:49:19 -0400

What are some skills that a solider would need to have and or improve to succeed in today's Army vs the Army in the 80's?

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 14 at 2016 9:54 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 14 Mar 2016 21:54:05 -0400

Seriously? Well there weren't back to back deployments in the 80s, and people ate healthy food

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 14 at 2016 10:25 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 14 Mar 2016 22:25:04 -0400

I came in in the 90s it may not be the 80s but truth be told todays army is more focused on education. This is a more cumputer savvy era where as when i first came in things were more prehistoric. Everything was done by hand and training was more hands on. I'm glad to say i was shaped by the 80s soldier and it was harder but it made me a stronger better soldier.

Response by SPC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 14 at 2016 10:34 PM

SPC(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 14 Mar 2016 22:34:26 -0400

Honestly, it's all what you make it. Some say it's harder because of the mentality of new soldiers, some say it's hard because when they came in 90% of the things that happen now wouldn't happen then.

It's not easy or hard, it's what you're willing to do to make it to the 20 years if it's really what you want to do. That's my two cents. I know I haven't been in for 20 years or even close to 20, but my husband joined 11 years ago and always tells me the Army is what I make it even through the continuous change.

I hope that helps even though I'm not a vet or close to that time yet.

Response by 1LT A. Uribe made Mar 14 at 2016 10:39 PM

1LT A. Uribe — Mon, 14 Mar 2016 22:39:55 -0400

I think the Army has transitioned to corporate Army. This is good, yet bad, to point out the later, I think from the point that I entered in January 1992 to today the Army has weakened the standards to accommodate the weak. I understand we are not the marine corps, but there's has to be a standard, for example why is an NCO supposed to drop with the soldier that screwed up? Exactly, this type of thinking is exactly what is watering the Army down. The issue is that, we don't hold on to some traditions long enough for them to become roots. For example, West Point academy is changing their mascot? WTF really? Notre Dame has more tradition than this!!! Not everyone in the Army knows what the Army's motto, ask any marine what theirs ant they'll proudly say it. Why? Because we don't care, we're more focused on matrix, who's got what education and why didn't I make the promotion list. In other words we are becoming a "An Army of One" we'd like to be a team, but let's be real, everyone is worried about their own promotion. If say establish roots and let the real traditions flourish and not prune them before. Lastly it's great, we push education and we are producing better veterans for the civilian sector. That's just from my experience.

Response by CSM Charles Hayden made Mar 14 at 2016 10:50 PM

CSM Charles Hayden — Mon, 14 Mar 2016 22:50:12 -0400

SPC Private RallyPoint Member If you find an easy "20" years anywhere, please advertise the position!

Response by MSG Wally Carmichael made Mar 15 at 2016 12:12 AM

MSG Wally Carmichael — Tue, 15 Mar 2016 00:12:39 -0400

Much of it also depends on your MOS. What's required for an 11B (Infantryman) is different for a 68X (Behavioral Health Specialist).

Response by SSgt David Tedrow made Mar 15 at 2016 5:34 AM

SSgt David Tedrow — Tue, 15 Mar 2016 05:34:46 -0400

Apples and Oranges really. In the 80's we were still in the Cold War era, we were not fighting two wars and were fighting boredom more than anything. Beirut and Grenada were the only two real conflicts during the 80's. Today it is a whole different setting and mindset. It's not if we go to war but we are at war.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 15 at 2016 6:26 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 15 Mar 2016 06:26:31 -0400

Coming in in 95, I served with many 80s era veterans. The biggest difference I see is the administrative requirements. In the 90s and before, it was all about training. Now it is about checking boxes and PT. I would say that it is not more or less difficult, just different.

Response by SFC Allen Lawless made Mar 15 at 2016 8:27 AM

SFC Allen Lawless — Tue, 15 Mar 2016 08:27:44 -0400

I've been retired for 21+ years now, and I haven't lived near a military installation since that time, but based on what I've gathered through discussions and encounters with fellow veterans, the political correctness that infects the civilian world carries over to the military. The preponderance of documentation seems to be much more prevalent than in my day. Used to be just a coaching session would be enough, but now it seems that every encounter with everybody for any reason needs to be documented.

Response by MAJ Michael Pauling made Mar 15 at 2016 8:54 AM

MAJ Michael Pauling — Tue, 15 Mar 2016 08:54:21 -0400

I enlisted in Army Reserves in 1985, got commissioned in 1991 (SMP/ROTC) and retired in 2006. Since then I have followed my spouse's Career as a Camp Follower. The biggest differences I have seen are the requirements of NCO's to be Educated on par with Officers, the return of "Zero Defect" mentality and the ability to always be ready to be deployed with scant concern for recovery, rest and re-integration into a predictable cycle. Today's Army will expect you to be already at 110% 24/7/365 which will wear you down and decimate the other parts of your life if you let it. You need to prepare for when the uniform comes off, you need to document and validate every medical and health issue that will be included when you discharge and try to claim disability. The key difference is that you can no longer bank on being able to make 20yr or more so best be prepared to go out before you plan to.

Response by COL Jason Smallfield, PMP, CFM, CM made Mar 15 at 2016 9:31 AM

COL Jason Smallfield, PMP, CFM, CM — Tue, 15 Mar 2016 09:31:04 -0400

A few thoughts:
- BLUF: Serving 20+ years in today's Army has different challenges than in the 1980s but is not more or less difficult. This will change in a few years to more difficult with changes in the military retirement law.
- Societal changes. Society is more mobile and individuals are less likely to have one career with only one company. Research indicates the average person now will have five jobs before they retire.
- Retirement. The military retirement has changed so as to benefit Soldiers who serve less than 20 years. This will have significant impact upon the ability or desire to serve 20+ years but this will not be objectively knowable or provable for a few years yet.
- GWOT vs Cold War. The optempo, organizational stresses and individual stresses were greater in my opinion during GWOT. Soldiers did not deploy 3-5 times for months/a year during the 1980s.

Response by SFC William Swartz Jr made Mar 15 at 2016 10:32 AM

SFC William Swartz Jr — Tue, 15 Mar 2016 10:32:37 -0400

Enlisted in '87, retired in '13....prior to DS/DS, we trained almost continuously to defeat the Warsaw Pact hordes that were poised to overrun Western Europe, spent 2-3 weeks a month in the field, at gunnery etc. to maintain our lethality should it be put to the test. We had continual "testing" from the PLT level through BDE via ARTEPs and different inspections we went through. After DS/DS and the demise of the USSR, we went through our first major drawdown as well as budget cuts that sometimes prevented us from or limited our ability to even drive our tanks/Brads/113s etc more than 100 miles or so. Then, somewhere around the mid-90's or so, we had a major push made on civilian education and we trained a bit less, and then we went through periods of overall malaise because we didn't have a real enemy to train for. Then the 9/11 Attacks happened and we immediately went onto a war footing for the next decade plus and as we are tailing off from there and are in the midst of a major drawdown, once again there is a sense of malaise, zero defect mentality is creeping in because of said drawdown and no one knows what to do as things change more often than not; uniform standards, PRT etc, etc, ad nausea. Where the Army goes from here is anyone's guess at this point, all I can say is do the best you can to always keep your nose clean, strive to improve yourself and your Soldiers, and be flexible!!

Response by MAJ Jim Woods made Mar 15 at 2016 12:47 PM

MAJ Jim Woods — Tue, 15 Mar 2016 12:47:18 -0400

I think in some ways both have their strengths.... Todays Army has better gear and subsistence possibilities than the 80's. But in the 80's ....... there was more autonomy of operations at lower levels than today. Commanders at lower levels had more authority and control of their units. It used to be more Bottom/Up than todays environment of Top/Down.

Response by SGM Mikel Dawson made Mar 15 at 2016 1:03 PM

SGM Mikel Dawson — Tue, 15 Mar 2016 13:03:05 -0400

I came in during the early 80's. Everything is more hi-tec. I remember when one had to rely more on their map reading skills than punching in the numbers and getting told where to go. There was more focus on MOS skills as we had SQT(Skill Qualification Test) in our MOS - major factor in getting promoted. I was right at the end of the SPC 5-8 ranks. Now every one is a leader (not).
I think hi-tec is good. It's cut time and made things more accurate (based on the skill of the operator). Equipment is so much better, more thought has gone into soldier protection, is great. Just too bad there is only one use for the helmet (not like the steel pot).
Being hi-tec smart can only help. Education is primary, don't even hurt to have a college degree today as an enlisted person.
One thing don't forget your basic skills. One day when the batteries run dead, the power goes out, the gps can't find it's way and you got to remember how to load up the radio, then the old boy's stuff will come in handy.

Response by SFC Dr. Joseph Finck, BS, MA, DSS made Mar 15 at 2016 2:11 PM

SFC Dr. Joseph Finck, BS, MA, DSS — Tue, 15 Mar 2016 14:11:58 -0400

SPC Private RallyPoint Member As a service member who served in the 80s and retired in 2014, I can say its not harder its just different. Each generation faces its own set of challenges. The benefits of service, to me, have always outweighed the sacrifice. Little brings more pride to me, than expressing my gratitude for being allowed to serve our great Republic for the two decades I was in. The values of selfless service, honor, and integrity serve me well in my civilian career. Dedication to duty, is yet another benefit of service. Regardless of whether you are a Revolutionary war veteran and an Afghanistan veteran, each period of service is challenging and some will stay until retirement, while others will not.

Response by SPC James Dollins made Mar 15 at 2016 3:13 PM

SPC James Dollins — Tue, 15 Mar 2016 15:13:06 -0400

Self restraint! Things are a hell of alot different when I went through in 2001. I'm POSITIVE they were ALOT different back in the 80's. There were no stress cards, being able to have cell phones, & I'm pretty sure the Drill's didn't take a 'hands off approach!'

Response by SSG Randy Merkes made Mar 15 at 2016 6:42 PM

SSG Randy Merkes — Tue, 15 Mar 2016 18:42:43 -0400

In some areas it is harder today than the 80's. Such as the deployments and war which wasn't happening in the 80's. That is MUCH harder of course. However the discipline and respect for seniors was stronger in the 80's. I see some many soldiers today that are speaking to seniors like they are buddies and such. In the 80's you was at parade rest when you spoke to a senior not matter where or when. Just different times. Not sure I like how it is today however I am not in and am on the outside now. God bless!

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 16 at 2016 1:32 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 16 Mar 2016 13:32:57 -0400

This is the wrong question. The Army has never been easy. We continue to evolve, things have always been in a state of change. Some changes make the Army easier in some ways, harder in others. The right question should be more along the lines of "are we doing the right things, and are our standards set at the right level?" Either way, to answer the original questions, things were very different then. The Army was harder in some ways, easier than others. Things weren't automated, so there was far more pressure to be competent in your trade. Discipline was in higher demand. They did have deployments (balkans, Kuwait, Saudi, etc), but not like you see now.

Response by COL Jon Thompson made Mar 16 at 2016 2:03 PM

COL Jon Thompson — Wed, 16 Mar 2016 14:03:31 -0400

I served from 1985 to 2015 and what amazed me is how cyclical those years went. We have always had budget issues even in the Reagan years (we used to blame shortages of TP on Gramm-Rudmann). In the 90's the military went through the post Cold War drawdown which is very similar to what we have going on now. One striking difference for me is the digitization of everything now and the wide amount of information available up and down. I am not sure that is all that good since it allows senior leaders to get involved with platoons. I would say today that having an understanding of digital systems is clearly more important. But what has not changed is the mission of the Army.

Response by SFC Pete Kain made Mar 16 at 2016 3:18 PM

SFC Pete Kain — Wed, 16 Mar 2016 15:18:50 -0400

Ask the young soldier that enlisted in 1944 and saw action in WWII, Korea and Vietnam. Optempo is not an excuse. Education is everything.

Response by MAJ Raúl Rovira made Mar 16 at 2016 5:37 PM

MAJ Raúl Rovira — Wed, 16 Mar 2016 17:37:12 -0400

Every era will have a set of challenges. It will be different from one generation to the next when you take into account changes in the economy, politics, technology, weapons, workforce available, society changes, and the world affairs to name a few.

When I was an LT I could never imagine all that has happened, and the changes since 1998.

If you want to succeed, find a mentor to help you along the way. Ask questions like you are doing right now on RP. And remember that the best Battalion/Brigade S1 in the Army is yourself (do the research yourself).

Response by SPC Faith Patterson made Mar 18 at 2016 8:26 AM

SPC Faith Patterson — Fri, 18 Mar 2016 08:26:16 -0400

If you want to succeed- EDUCATION! Depending on your MOS that will make or break promotion status. My MOS needed 798 for E5. Differences I see... There's a lack of leadership because everyone is so soft and fluffy these days. If you're a pos, I wouldn't be able to tell you straight out I would have to sugar coat it. There's also a lack of esprit de corps due to people being blue falcons constantly and no one accepts responsibility for their own actions anymore. It's always a blame game. Honestly though, be the change you want to see.

Response by SPC Timothy Repetto made Mar 18 at 2016 12:50 PM

SPC Timothy Repetto — Fri, 18 Mar 2016 12:50:12 -0400

Society is more concerned about political correctness than safety. And the higher powers that be certainly follow that and use the military a social experiment for it. Not til '89 did you have panama Other than that it was almost considered Peace-Time with the Army the best in the world (At That Time). But long story short and in the best way possible. Back then if you didn't do something or if you didn't follow instructions you got beat the fuck down. Why? Because if you do that BS on the battlefield you die. Pain and repetition is how you learn. Now we soften the standards so women can do it. (note to feminist...I believe women can do it. But prove it the right way at the Standard it was originally at... Its the combat standard NOT The MALE standard.) We have weakened our military so much it's unreal. We let new recruits keep their cell-phones to call mommy and give them a "Bitch-Card" if training gets tooooo Hard or if the drill sergeant is mean. C'mon, war is not cute little care bears in a cloud village with rainbows around it. War is Filthy, Unfathomable, Ruthless, Evil at it's finest. And if you don't train accordingly you'll be consumed by it. Point being. It was hard back then because we were the best and it's not easy being the best. It was better then.........

If I continue with what they do today then I just might break a lot of stuff. That's how much it pisses me off. That's one of the reasons I got out.

Response by SPC Dean J. Thompson made Mar 29 at 2016 5:41 PM

SPC Dean J. Thompson — Tue, 29 Mar 2016 17:41:43 -0400

In the 80s the Army was downsizing and booting you for any reason what so ever. Saw E7s with 18 years told they would never see 20 and get the boot.
Sure things are more difficult with the new education and point systems in place.
20 years can be a problem.
Like the new 401k retirement package they have developed though. At least if you get the boot your 401k can be rolled over into a new account. They didn't have such things as 401k and separation pay when I was in. You just got coded and booted or if you where lucky you fought them hard enough to reach your ets date and get your honorable discharge with a bar of reenlistment code on your DD214.