Posted on Nov 8, 2014
Is standing for equality consistent with opposing open immigration?
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In 1776, in a fraction of one sentence written into the Declaration of Independence was stated the real American Revolution, the new idea, and it was this: “that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights; that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness.” That was it. This is the essence of Americanism. This is the rock upon which the whole “American miracle” was founded.
If this is what our country was founded on...so why are we resisting immigration and amnesty? These are people that want a better life...and come to America to get it. Have we forgot what it means to be an American...or has Americanism taken a new meaning: excluding anyone that is not American? What about, "give us your hungry, give us your poor"? We were all immigrants (except Natives) and our Southern border Mexicans are more native than we will ever be. (We, as in Caucasians) This topic will probably strike a nerve for many folks...but it is up for discussion, and I'm curious to see how you all feel about immigration, and amnesty?
If this is what our country was founded on...so why are we resisting immigration and amnesty? These are people that want a better life...and come to America to get it. Have we forgot what it means to be an American...or has Americanism taken a new meaning: excluding anyone that is not American? What about, "give us your hungry, give us your poor"? We were all immigrants (except Natives) and our Southern border Mexicans are more native than we will ever be. (We, as in Caucasians) This topic will probably strike a nerve for many folks...but it is up for discussion, and I'm curious to see how you all feel about immigration, and amnesty?
Posted in these groups: 
Immigration
Immigration
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 23
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I don't think the general public is 'resisting immigration', I do 'resist' amnesty. My family immigrated from Ireland, so obviously, I am very pro-immigration. What I am not though, is allowing people to get a 'free pass'. There is a system in place, if you don't like that system, change it. Don't skirt around it by allowing people that break our laws to bypass that system that is in place. I think that the conversation that isn't being talked about is the economic ramifications of turning over 11 million illegal aliens into citizens at one time. From the increased funding issues of welfare, to the many business who (illegally) employ illegal aliens would now have to pay them minimum wage. Maybe we should start by prosecuting those employers who hire the illegal aliens. I think that this issue of immediate amnesty to all would create a huge economic burden, which is why there is a system in place to control this issue. Sure, I think that system could be run better, but amnesty is not the way to 'fix it'.
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SSgt (Join to see)
CW2 Joseph Evans You can get help on Craigslist and there are veterans who are willing to help. One of the biggest hurdles is some kind of income but I have found in certain circumstances you can do work for rent. All sorts of options is one is creative enough.
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CW2 Joseph Evans
SSgt (Join to see), I'm not sure how much you've been following my posts, but I am starting a nonprofit for homeless and disadvantaged vets that puts them in a "tiny home" for a year at a location with physical therapy, counseling, a cafeteria, internet access for online classes, and transportation to and from work with community partners helping with part time work and a few onsite options to help maintain the facilities for pay/participation... A year with the program, you leave with a "tiny home" that you can park in an RV park or in your brothers back yard... Get the VA, Education programs, and grants to cover the bulk of the bills.
Take all the guess work and risk out of it.
Take all the guess work and risk out of it.
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SSgt (Join to see)
Very good idea. I really it and the small home is a start to meaning in their lives. I would also love to see people helped with legal matters. There is a huge need for intervention so we can materially shift away from rhetoric and you said, "paper shuffling".
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LTC Paul Labrador
I completely agree. Our immigration system is broken and has been needing revamp in quite some time.....BUT, it is the current legal process and needs to be followed. Rewarding bad behavior only encourages it.
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Absolutely, SSG(P) (Join to see). My grandfather and grandmother came here from Poland, but they did not sneak over the border illegally. They entered the country legally and went through the process of gaining citizenship. That's the difference, and it's a big one, in my opinion.
I interpret amnesty to mean this: You entered our country illegally and broke the law. You've continued to break the law for as long as you've been here. Now we're going to give you amnesty and forgive all those illegal acts. You can remain here and be a U.S. citizen. I know it's not that cut and dried or that simple, but do you see the message that amnesty sends?
I interpret amnesty to mean this: You entered our country illegally and broke the law. You've continued to break the law for as long as you've been here. Now we're going to give you amnesty and forgive all those illegal acts. You can remain here and be a U.S. citizen. I know it's not that cut and dried or that simple, but do you see the message that amnesty sends?
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CW5 (Join to see)
It might have been easier when our grandparents came over. My grandparents came here around 1910. I think the point is that they did what was required by law to enter the USA legally. It may be more expensive or more difficult nowadays. I'm not sure. I'll bet that riding a ship from Europe to the U.S. in 1910 or 1920 was no picnic.
I do believe we should document every single one. I think that's the goal anyhow. And the ones who entered illegally should be sent back. That sounds harsh to some, but allowing millions of "undocumented" visitors to remain here and become citizens because they "made it" to the U.S. sounds wrong to me.
I do believe we should document every single one. I think that's the goal anyhow. And the ones who entered illegally should be sent back. That sounds harsh to some, but allowing millions of "undocumented" visitors to remain here and become citizens because they "made it" to the U.S. sounds wrong to me.
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SPC(P) Jay Heenan
Coming from an individual that has to deal with the chaos that ensues...God Bless you brother for what you do MSG Kent Holmes ! Stay safe
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SSgt (Join to see)
CW5 (Join to see) I completely agree. It sends a message that the law doesn't matter, and those that broke the law are free to drain EVEN MORE from us. Its like giving a leech a high five after letting it suck your blood for years... I understand people want better lives, but its at the expense of our citizens who were born free.
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Your "American Miracle" is something that the United States has been trying to achieve since it's founding. Unfortunately xenophobia is part of our genetic heritage. It takes a strength of will and conviction to look at someone who does not resemble the person on the magazine or in the mirror and accept them without reservation.
Do we really need lizard men and little green men from mars for us to accept the totality of the human race in all its diversity, as our brothers and sisters?
I see the resistance to the global community as pockets of people begin to feel a sense of disenfranchisement. Even as we open up communications that allow us to talk to people on the other side of the world with only milliseconds in delay, we pull into our shells seeking isolation.
It's even harder, when as a nation, we see our brothers and sisters struggling to find work, seeking charity to support their families, while we share our wealth with the world lifting communities in Africa, Central and South America, and Asia out of a poverty much deeper than our own.
I do believe that the greatest failing as a nation right now is our lack of character. When did we lose our grace and compassion to let greed rule the day to the exclusion of justice?
Do we really need lizard men and little green men from mars for us to accept the totality of the human race in all its diversity, as our brothers and sisters?
I see the resistance to the global community as pockets of people begin to feel a sense of disenfranchisement. Even as we open up communications that allow us to talk to people on the other side of the world with only milliseconds in delay, we pull into our shells seeking isolation.
It's even harder, when as a nation, we see our brothers and sisters struggling to find work, seeking charity to support their families, while we share our wealth with the world lifting communities in Africa, Central and South America, and Asia out of a poverty much deeper than our own.
I do believe that the greatest failing as a nation right now is our lack of character. When did we lose our grace and compassion to let greed rule the day to the exclusion of justice?
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SPC(P) Jay Heenan
I do hear what you are saying CW2 Joseph Evans. I don't think we are talking about us losing our 'grace and compassion'. We still allow political refugees. Maybe some people are against immigration as a whole, but I think people are against people entering the country illegally. The only issue I have with your comment would be why are people considered to be a 'xenophobe' if they are against people breaking our laws?
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CW2 Joseph Evans
The problem isn't the 1%. We see it in our neighborhoods. The fences we build against the person next door. The panhandler on the street. The kid standing at the bus stop with in a threadbare coat that's a hand me down from his sister.
We watch FOX, CNN, MSNBC... when if we opened our eyes we would see the people in need in our own communities.
When you can, buy from ethical companies, when you can't, consider doing without. Help and volunteer at home communities. As Soldiers, do something other than church and the bars and the strip clubs. Be like SGM (Join to see) and time with Cub Scouts or Boy Scouts, or Girl Scouts. Habitat for humanity, soup kitchens, even Sunday lunches at church so you can meet new friends, even those who weren't able to contribute to the potluck that day...
So much we can do with catering to the elusive global conspiracy... just be there for our neighbors until that good will spills over to the rest of the world.
We watch FOX, CNN, MSNBC... when if we opened our eyes we would see the people in need in our own communities.
When you can, buy from ethical companies, when you can't, consider doing without. Help and volunteer at home communities. As Soldiers, do something other than church and the bars and the strip clubs. Be like SGM (Join to see) and time with Cub Scouts or Boy Scouts, or Girl Scouts. Habitat for humanity, soup kitchens, even Sunday lunches at church so you can meet new friends, even those who weren't able to contribute to the potluck that day...
So much we can do with catering to the elusive global conspiracy... just be there for our neighbors until that good will spills over to the rest of the world.
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CW2 Joseph Evans
SPC(P) Jay Heenan,
The spirit of American egalitarianism never would have created a barrier to becoming an American citizen. The thought that we would create a country that refused to admit people who sought a better life, would have been alien to the concept of our founding fathers. True, I don't think our founding fathers (most of whom were slave owners) were prepared for a globalized America, but they were prepared to accept all comers.
The fact that the barriers are in place is a sign of our xenophobia. If someone breaks our laws... our real laws... the ones about killing, and rape and theft and other forms of victimization, they should be dealt with by our laws on our soil. But I don't feel that a law creating a barrier to being an American is based in American principles.
The spirit of American egalitarianism never would have created a barrier to becoming an American citizen. The thought that we would create a country that refused to admit people who sought a better life, would have been alien to the concept of our founding fathers. True, I don't think our founding fathers (most of whom were slave owners) were prepared for a globalized America, but they were prepared to accept all comers.
The fact that the barriers are in place is a sign of our xenophobia. If someone breaks our laws... our real laws... the ones about killing, and rape and theft and other forms of victimization, they should be dealt with by our laws on our soil. But I don't feel that a law creating a barrier to being an American is based in American principles.
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SSG(P) (Join to see)
Well said Chief....now a I have 8 hours of advanced leadership....stand by for more thought provoking discussions.
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