Is the military a profession? Is it only a certain level (NCOs and Officers or just Officers)? Why or why not?

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 02 Mar 2015 19:25:18 -0500

Is the military a profession? Is it just for a few (NCOs and officers or just officers)? Why or why not?

MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca CPT Private RallyPoint Member CPT Private RallyPoint Member 2LT Private RallyPoint Member 1LT Private RallyPoint Member CPT Private RallyPoint Member, CPT Aaron Kletzing SSG Robert Burns SSG V. Michelle Woods CPT Laurie H. CPT Private RallyPoint Member

Response by CPT Zachary Brooks made Mar 2 at 2015 7:32 PM

CPT Zachary Brooks — Mon, 02 Mar 2015 19:32:39 -0500

Of course it is a profession. It is relatable and a large enterprise that can be identified by many even outside the institution. It also has a rich history at all levels.

Response by SSG Robert Burns made Mar 2 at 2015 7:35 PM

SSG Robert Burns — Mon, 02 Mar 2015 19:35:13 -0500

No one is more PROFESSIONal than I. (Drops mic)

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 2 at 2015 7:38 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 02 Mar 2015 19:38:22 -0500

It is the only "job" I have stayed in longer then 3 years. It consumes a part of my life and I will likely miss it when I can no longer serve. For that I consider it a profession

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Mar 2 at 2015 8:19 PM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Mon, 02 Mar 2015 20:19:59 -0500

Of course.

It is a skill, a trade, which offers a career and promotes professionalism. How is it not a Profession?

From the junior most Private or Lieutenant, to middle ranked, or senior leadership, we are Apprentices, Journeymen, and Masters.

Ignoring individual skills (MOS), and looking at the Services, is not a Sailor or a Soldier a Profession from ancient times? Wouldn't the Airman be a modern carry-over of that same concept? A Marine, a hybrid of all those things.

The argument for why would not be considered a profession is because our ranks are historically drawn from the masses. The uneducated. But what do we do first? We train, we educate, we rebuild them. We've had soldiers caring for livestock since we've had Calvary. We've had blacksmiths since we had swords. We'd had engineers, since their were rivers. Warfare breeds education, which is the enemy of ignorance. And when wars fade, those men, return to their farms, their horses, and their workshops.

Damn straight we're a profession.

Response by Maj Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 2 at 2015 8:40 PM

Maj Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 02 Mar 2015 20:40:34 -0500

The military is not necessarily a profession, but the MOSs within the military are. Whether a technician calibrating instruments; infantryman writing an operation order; pilot flying an aircraft; Red shirt arming a weapon; or any of the thousands of duties conduct every minute of every day, it takes specialized training to reach a level of proficiency. All MOSs are professions. Professions transcend rank.

Response by SPC Christopher Green made Mar 2 at 2015 8:53 PM

SPC Christopher Green — Mon, 02 Mar 2015 20:53:47 -0500

It really depends on how narrow or broad of a definition you use. On one side of the spectrum of the definition you can say that if it is a job for which you are paid, then every job that pays is a profession. On the narrower definition/ end of the spectrum which generally only includes those who have exceptional knowledge, advanced education, great autonomy in a highly specialized area which often include self-regulation and a code of ethics, then there are very few careers that are professions.

I would say that military service at ranks below LTC (officer corps.) 1st Sgt.(enlisted) fall below the requisites for the latter definition of profession. Of course JAG, Military Docs, Clergy, engineers, pilots (positions that are generally considered professions) are professions regardless of rank. That's just. My opinion though

Response by PO2 Steven Erickson made Mar 2 at 2015 9:26 PM

PO2 Steven Erickson — Mon, 02 Mar 2015 21:26:28 -0500

[Yes, at all levels] However...

The Service is one of the following depending on who you are, and how you view your "occupation"...

Job.
Career.
Calling.

At the Career and Calling levels, it's definitely a profession. This is not a question of "rank" - it's a question of attitude.

Response by GySgt Joe Strong made Mar 2 at 2015 10:59 PM

GySgt Joe Strong — Mon, 02 Mar 2015 22:59:23 -0500

Apprentices, Journeymen, Master Craftsmen and Guild Officers
You should be able to do the correlations.
It was obvious on its face to me.

Response by SFC Walt Littleton made Mar 3 at 2015 12:16 AM

SFC Walt Littleton — Tue, 03 Mar 2015 00:16:30 -0500

I made it my profession. My father was a lifer and so was I. It killed me when I didn't make E8 the 2nd year so I knew I had to go. I call it "when they put me out to pasture"

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 3 at 2015 12:27 AM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 03 Mar 2015 00:27:32 -0500

The military is certainly a profession (the profession of arms to be precise). The issue we run into is that even though we expect those in the profession to be professional, they are not always and this leads to the mistaken view that because they are not [being] professional, that they are not in a real profession when it is a reflection of the individual in that case and not of the profession.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 3 at 2015 1:37 AM

Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 03 Mar 2015 01:37:44 -0500

I see it as a complex animal. It's a profession in some cases and vocation in others.

A profession is generally something someone commits to for a decent amount of time.

I suppose it depends on the mindset of the individual. If someone joins just to get some training and experience in IT or mechanics then they are more or less pursuing a vocation. The concept as whole is that they join the profession of arms. However in my opinion not everyone sees it that way. Someone who decided to make a career of it turns it into a profession at that point.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 3 at 2015 2:24 AM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 03 Mar 2015 02:24:31 -0500

I can't speak for my sister services.

ADP-1 The Army

The Army profession recognizes two communities of practice: the Profession of
Arms and Army Civilian Corps. After taking an initial oath, each individual (military or
civilian) becomes a member of the Army profession, but an individual is not a
professional until certified. The transition from an aspiring professional to a professional
in either community is not automatic. Initial certification occurs upon graduation or
completion of the first qualifying event such as Advanced Individual Training for the
Soldier. Membership is a status that is earned through certification and periodic
recertification in competence, character, and commitment. Membership in the Army
profession carries with it significant responsibility—the effective and ethical application
of combat power. Additional certifications follow as the professional advances in skill,
experience, and responsibility. The responsibility for each individual’s development and
certification is a mutual one, shared by the individual with the Army.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 3 at 2015 4:09 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 03 Mar 2015 04:09:04 -0500

We place enormous responsibility on inexperienced, young troops frequently. It must be treated as a profession at all levels otherwise failure is inevitable.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 3 at 2015 5:19 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 03 Mar 2015 05:19:54 -0500

I voted Yes at all levels because I really believe that it should be. Is it currently, no. There are plenty that believe that the can just do the Office Space thing and just show up on a constant basis and you should applaud them for that.
We need to hold people and units accountable for the right things. Once we do that we will have an Army that is professional from top to bottom. I think we are talking the talk right now without walking the walk.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 3 at 2015 5:57 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 03 Mar 2015 05:57:25 -0500

Because of the training and education we receive in order to accomplish our jobs successfully and any mission that may be given to us. Its student and a profession at the same time. We are constantly training, learning and growing in our own specialties.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 3 at 2015 9:39 AM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 03 Mar 2015 09:39:23 -0500

It is, but...your question is bifurcated and conflicted. First, you ask "Is the Military a profession?" This has it's own issues in terminology definition, but let's just address that quickly and move on to your other point. The "military" is not a profession. Soldiering is a profession. Can you say "Marining?" I know you can say "sailing," but I'm not sure that works. The bottom line on this first definitional issue is that for some reason in the english language it is necessary for something to be a verb to be a profession in general (every rule has an exception so take it or leave it). Doctors are not a profession. Practicing medicine is. It is something that you do. That asside, let's make it simple and say that Soldiering is a profession...and IT IS. By definition, it is a self regulating segment of society that conduct a specialized task that no one else can provide. It has it's own language and it's own ethics which are enforced from WITHIN. It is highly specialized and has its own rigor to enforce the expertise required. NOW...the second part of your question, is more aptly asked, "Are we all professionals...at all levels?" The answer to that is no. We all are in the PROFESSION, but we aren't all professionals. To be a professional within a profession, you have to espouse the ethics and be an expert at your craft. One can argue that at a certain level, it is almost "automatic." Maybe at the command level I am at, or maybe at the command level company commanders are at. I'd argue that it isn't time or positionally based, but is subjective and depends on the values and dedication of the individual and must be assessed by those in higher levels of authority. We talk about professionalism. What does it mean? There are a LOT of bumper stickers out there that aren't properly defined by commanders. They must be. You can't just expect me to be "agile and adaptive" without telling me what that means in concrete ways. So..."the Military," is a profession, but we aren't all professionals. Discuss.

Response by SGM Mikel Dawson made Mar 3 at 2015 11:35 AM

SGM Mikel Dawson — Tue, 03 Mar 2015 11:35:03 -0500

It's like any job. If you choose to make it a profession, then it's a profession. When I was at the point of my first re-enlistment I stopped and thought - "What do I want to do now? Do I want to stay for 20?" I came to the decision yes, and then to me it turned into a profession. I committed to a minimum of 20 years. Even though I was a Reservists, I made the military a profession. Being a professional is a state of mind, a carrying out of your duties to the best of your ability. Making sure your priorities are in the correct order. As an NCO, you live that NCO creed, and especially the first sentence.

You can carry out 20 yrs of duty and still not be a professional. Time really don't make a professional. If you have to ask what it is, then you will never get there.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 11 at 2015 1:06 PM

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 11 Mar 2015 13:06:32 -0400

AR 670-1
Chapter 1
Introduction
1-1. Purpose
The Army is a profession.

That's it Sir, LTC Private RallyPoint Member

Response by MAJ L. Nicholas Smith made May 9 at 2016 11:12 AM

MAJ L. Nicholas Smith — Mon, 09 May 2016 11:12:58 -0400

It is a profession. In order to truly be competent, this profession requires specialized education to begin with (Boot-AIT/OBC) and which is followed by additional specialized training, evaluations, and continuing education. Our calling requires professional development blended with routine physical, emotional, and economical sacrifice.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made May 16 at 2016 8:47 AM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 16 May 2016 08:47:43 -0400

I responded to a similar question in the Joint Forces Quarterly journal, , it may be worth some to consider some of these points when questioning whether career enlisted soldiers are professionals as well. http://www.danelder.com/commentary-who-is-a-member-of-the-military-profession/

Are Noncommissioned Officers Professional? | The NCO Guide

The NCO corps professionalization is incomplete in the areas of formal and theoretical education, accumulation of specialized expertise, and autonomous jurisdiction over a body of professional knowledge. The NCO corps is professionalizing, but not yet professional.

Response by Col Joseph Lenertz made May 16 at 2016 9:18 AM

Col Joseph Lenertz — Mon, 16 May 2016 09:18:23 -0400

The entire military is a profession. Two aspects of professions we all share: A common, unique rule-set (in our case the UCMJ). Self-corrected behavior and standards (customs and courtesies): From O-10 to E-1, we know the behavior and standards, and (theoretically at least) an E-1 can correct an O-10 on this and the O-10 should gratefully acknowledge the correction. Those outside the profession are neither needed or allowed to correct behavior or standards.

Response by SFC Marcus Belt made Dec 1 at 2016 8:51 AM

SFC Marcus Belt — Thu, 01 Dec 2016 08:51:09 -0500

I voted yes, but with a qualifier: the difference between a job and a profession has little to do with the actual work involved, rather, it has to do with whether the worker brings their work home with them. A job, you clock in, you clock out, but a profession stays with you.